Joren DarkStar

Let him live. The quickest way to ruin a sequel is the quickest way to ruin a game as well - if you kill the main character of the first one in the second, then what the hell was the point of the first game/movie? I want to see Revan live. Even if it means he leaves the order in the end. In fact, why can the developers toss us a bone here, and if we had a successful romance in the first game, have an option (when we describe what happened in the first game) to have Revan and Bastila/Carth live happily ever after making jedi babies in this game. Sometimes, its bad to be TOO dramatic.

Hooray for thread hijacking! :angry:

Hey smart ass, read the rest of the article before you make yourself look like an idiot. The article also said that Revan left for the unknown regions, and that the twi-lek jedi was a companion of yours. So if I am "the last jedi left", what's with the other 2 jedi (that we know of thus far) still being around? Read the whole article before you open your illiterate mouth.

Well, I wouldn't even mind it, as long as they never tamper with the idea that your character was successful in their pursuits - if they pursued the dark jedi path, let them succeed. If he pursued Bastilla, then don't break up the friggin relationship or kill one of them off! If she pursued Carth, then don't break up the friggin relationship or kill one of them off! Etc. Etc. Its almost as if they think they are being "shocking" when they are doing what everyone else does, hence the cliche'd nature of it. It would be refreshing for once to know that a relationship you pursued in one game continued in the next, and neither party is dead nor the relationship split up by the end of the game.

Just something I thought of. How many times has this pissed you off in a movie or game? You watch a movie, or play a game, and get attached to a character, and everything is great. Then, you move on to the sequel game or movie, with all new characters, and your favorite character makes a cameo, only to DIE. It Bites! Essentially, the whole previous movie/game is pointless, because the charater that drove it is dead! Its as if you found out you lost the game after thinking you won it! I seriously hope that with the details that you can "set up" the story by describing what happened in the previous game, that say, if you go on to say that it ended in the lightside romance with Bastilla and Revan, that you found out that they ran off together to the unknown regions, and stay together throughout the course of the game, with neither dying. Or, if you took the evil path with female Revan and Carth still alive, that when you bump into them again, that Revan is still evil, and Carth still lives, as a subject to Revan and still loving her, yet "trying to save her" this whole time (you find out Revan keeps Carth around because she is amused by her). See, its touches like that which will make the new game better. If it seeks to reaffirm the players choices rather than invalidate them through killing Revan or a main potential love interest, then it only adds something to this story. I only fear because it sounds from the article that some people die, and they had to choose which. I guess my breakdown would be this: Revan Lightside KOTOR 1 Automatically Lives - HK 47 - We know that he lives, so I am adding him here. T- Droid (forgot designation) - Same as HK Zallzabar - Lives, but He would be a better potential candidate for a "noble sacrifice" from a KOTOR 1 character Bastilla - If Revan's love interest, then she goes with Revan, if not, she is a survivor of the Jedi Civil War Automatically Dead - Juhani - Jedi Civil War, remember? Jolee - Same as above On the Hot Seat - Mission - Killing the kid would be a great way to show the casualties of war, but keeping her alive means she is now 19, and a little older, thus a more mature mission could be a neat cameo. I say kill her because you don't get to play as her. Carth - Carth dying would make another impact, but not one the devs might want. I didn't mind him, but I know a lot of people would cheer. I think it would be better if he was off screen, but reunited with his son, unless you choose the romance path with carth, in which case, Carth and Revan took off for the unknown regions. Canderous - Awesome, but getting up there in age. Also reflectant at the end of the game. I would either have him die a warrior's death, and be the other potential candidate for a "noble sacrifice" if the devs are looking for one from a KOTOR 1 character, or let him live out the rest of his life in peace. Now for the easy part: Revan Darkside in Kotor 1 There are only 4 ways this can go - 1) Everybody dies. Remember, You killed everyone. 2) Everybody but Carth Dies - For the romance dark side plot. 3) Everybody but bastilla dies - you take her on as your apprentice. 4) 2 + 3 - Carth and bastilla live for the above reasons. At least in the above ways, the devs can afford to kill some characters (which based on the article, they are going to do), without ruining the story of KOTOR 1. I just especially want to avoid the damn cliche'd "Oh, I loved him/her, and now they are dead." Or "Oh, I loved him/her, and they turned bad and I had to kill them." Or "Yes, we loved each other, but it didn't work out for BLAH BLAH YAK BLAH CRAP." That plotline has gotten really stale in RPG's - let us feel good about someone being happy for once...

A) If Obsidian's success is not their responsibility, then their happiness is not Obsidian's responsibility. Obsidian's responsibility is to create a game that is fun to play, and if they are smart businessmen and women, they will tap into an already successful niche, rather than try for a whole new niche in an effort to try to appease a whole new group of players. The idea is to not lose the fan base you get with the first game - which, let's face it, if this is KOTOR 2 with new Characters, the only reason to call it KOTOR 2 is to appeal to the fans of KOTOR 1, even though the stories are unrelated. Then again, I do not mistake you for being a smart businessman. Or even smart. B ) Fans do get some special priviledges nowadays. The developers who have an ear to what the fans want, and can give them some of what they want, ultimately generate a more positive buzz for the game, and garner themselves more sales. The trick for the developer is to learn what to compromise, and what to hold fast to. Even more important is if they are dealing with an established license that already has a hit game under it, to which they are making the sequel. If the game does not play like an improved version of the original (speaking of gameplay and intangeables here), the results could be disasterous in terms of profit. And if no profit, then no more games. So yes, I am telling the non-Kotor fans to shut up, but only in KOTOR threads, because what they want does not fit what players of the original KOTOR expect, and it would be a HUGE gamble to possibly disenfranchise an already established player base. Again, its called smart businesss. Something you apparently know nothing about, nor care to know. Tough crap for you, then.

Vader's armor was made of Cortosis, which is resistant to lightsaber energy. Problem solved.

Why should they? Here is why. You will NOT be able to make everyone happy. That's why. There are too many people here who, if the game is indeed KOTOR2, want the game to essentially play like anything but the original KOTOR. It's one thing if they were fans of the first, but a lot here want Fallout, or another NWN, or another Morrowind, etc. My point being this - what is the point if KOTOR 2 is just "KOTOR - Fallout Edition" or "KOTOR - Morrowind Edition"? It ceases to be KOTOR, which means the fans that help make the original gold are left alienated. Essentially, it would be the developers shunning the main stream who loved the game as it was, and catering to the nit-picking hard core gamers. Thus, you not only have a smaller group you are catering to (meaning you get less money), you are catering to a group that likes to complain and nitpick, and might not buy the game anyway. Major rule of thumb - NEVER cater to the hardcore gamers - sorry guys, but it is just bad business. You cater to the mainstream gamer, and then, add tweaks here and there for the hardcore guys if you have the time. THAT is why if some hardcore guy wants KOTOR 2 to be anything other than a souped up KOTOR, they should just end up focusing on some other game, and leaving the development ideas for KOTOR 2 to the fans of it, not the detractors. Of course, if this is not KOTOR 2, then what I said is moot, and they can go for it (although I would be curious as to who IS developing KOTOR 2). Granted, we do not know what the game in development is right now, but I think that those who don't want KOTOR 2, or want to change it into something non-KOTOR if it is indeed that, should not post in the KOTOR-themed threads - leave that be for the fans who think this is KOTOR 2, and are eagerly awaiting a sequel. I realize there is no way to enforce this - its more of a respect thing; something I honestly think there is little of in the society of today. That's why I don't expect it. But anyway, if you think the complainers here are the majority of KOTOR fans, then I challenge you to go look at the Bioware forums and the gamefaqs.com KOTOR forums. You will see a much different and more appreciative fan base with more legit concerns for the game and a sequel than the whiners here who want KOTOR 2 to be everything but. Just a note for the developers to read, so they don't get conned into believing that the people here critiquing KOTOR 1 represent the majority of KOTOR fans.

Actually, there has been no indication given yet that if made KOTOR2 would be all new characters or not a direct sequel or that it would be a completely new storyline. There were two endings to the game. They could choose one, such as Revan and Bastila becoming the new Sith Lords, and run with it. In that case, you would play a new character this time, not Revan with amnesia. Yes, there is an indication that it will be all new characters. When interviewed about the possibility of KOTOR 2, a LucasArts producer said its being planned, and with ALL NEW CHARACTERS. If that isn't the definition of a "clear indication", then maybe you need to define what "is" means. And Hades, on whether or not it's a sequel, its semantics. Ok, it isn't a true sequel in this case, but if the game system remains relatively untouched, or just upgraded, then it is enough of a sequel for me.

You don't get it, do you? Because KOTOR 2 will have ALL NEW CHARACTERS, it will be a COMPLETELY NEW STORY. The story from KOTOR 1 remains untouched, and the new story is just that, a new story that carries on during the time of the Old Republic - we are talking about 10,000 years here - we can have stories that don't affect each other in that span of time...

All I can say about KOTOR 2 is that it is with all new characters, based on what we heard before. That said, I hope it plays just like the original, only with more options. I see a lot of people making fusses over this or that - the damn game won gobs of awards and went gold! I mean, come on, people here are making like it was awful! I hope the devs listen to none of the nitpics here, and just instead focus on a great story with multiple twists based on your decisions (like the old one), and tightening up the systems used in the previous KOTOR. That, and DEFINITELY use Voice Acting - that is what really pushed KOTOR over the top, IMHO. Hey, if they need someone to do voice overs for cheap, I will come do it - just pay for my plane ticket and give me a weekend, and I am there.

When are you people going to realize that KOTOR was not meant to be a straight up role playing game? I mean, I hear in one breath a lot of people admit that it wasn't an RPG, and then in the other, try to tell the devs here to make the second one more of an RPG. KOTOR is an adventure game with RPG elements - stop trying to tell people to make the second one anything more than that. It had a base in the d20 rules - a base, not a strict enforcement of. Keep the cut-scenes, keep all the things people said to cut because they weren't "True RPG", and just worry about adding a new story and make improvements on the old system (which works just fine for what it was intended for). We don't need something radically different - just a captivating plot that can go in several directions based on your choices; just like the original. Seriously, some of you people are trying to reinvent the wheel here. Essentially, a lot of you are saying you want KOTOR 2 to be ... not like KOTOR. Yet KOTOR did quite well, so may I suggest that if you want to play a game that isn't like KOTOR, then why not go find a game you do like to play, and stop trying to tell the devs to mold KOTOR 2 into something that doesn't even resemble the very successful original?

Yes, but come on. Some things needed to be changed for gameplay purposes. If all lightsabers were 1-hit kill, then how easy do you think the game would be? Seriously, it was a true to SW as it could get and still be a very playable and enjoyable game...

Essentially what I am getting from everyone is this. Star Wars fans loved the game. PnP RPG players are whining that it wasn't PnP enough for them. FPS fans are whining that it wasn't FPS enough. DnD fans are whining that it wasn't DnD enough. MorroWind fans are whining that it wasn't MorroWind enough. Fallout fans are whining that it wasn't Fallout enough. etc. etc. etc... All I have to say is this: Kotor was incredibly true to the spirit and feel of Star Wars, and was a wonderful RPG - Adventure hybrid. The levels were somewhat limiting, but they fit given the overall feel and focus of the story. Star Wars has always been story-driven, and if you are given too much freedom, you lose focus of the story. Those of you wanting Kotor to be more like Fallout, or Torment, or Jedi Academy, well, go play those games instead. Kotor makes a wonderful Kotor, and it's not the fault of Kotor if you want Kotor to be anything other than Kotor. In otherwords, if you can't meet the game on its own terms and look at it from that perspective, then why are you playing it and not something else? -------------------------------------------------------------------- That said, there are some legit things brought up. I will second those here and bring up my own. Useless first class - Really, it would have been nice to get some more longevity out of the original class, but I can let it pass since it was more there for story purposes than functionality. Useless skills - What were security spikes used for? Seems there were some things in the game that did not get implemented - I would like to see everything that made it in to a game by publish have a use. Granted, its difficult when your publisher is pushing hard for a quicker release (look at what happened when LucasArts pushed Sony into releasing an unready SWG), but a best effort should be made. The ability to explore and complete quests after beating the game - There are so many quests that can go unresolved by the time you beat Kotor. I think a function that would be universally heralded by Kotor players would be to complete quests and travel after you finish the game. Maybe, although its not necessary, have the scenery change on each planet depending on whether you finish good or evil, and have some of the dialogue change as well, but have all quests you didn't complete available to be completed, unless you already did something to miss that chance (which can happen in the original - case in point: Bastilla Romance and Finding Dustil). Downloadable additional content - One promise made by Bioware was that there would be downloadable content that added on to Kotor. It never happened, and we are still waiting. Its looking less and less likely. Even if it were semi-annual, Kotor 2 fans would be happy with some new quests and items involved in the game. More character feature customization - More faces and more clothes to start with. Same with hair. Will SWG let you borrow theirs? lol. Anyway, that is what I would suggest to improve it. I am not going to make any suggestions that Kotor 2 should be anything other than an improved sequel to Kotor. It shouldn't be Torment, Fallout, Morrowind, or any other game people keep trying to compare it to. It should just be an updated version of Kotor (obviously with a different story, and they already said all the characters were new).

And people wonder why the youth of Japan are all f*cked up...

Me I think they will be using the D20 SW rules. Modern D20 rules might be interesting as well, but don

Look, it takes nothing away from the first game. This is going to be so far down in the future that its not going to matter anyway. I mean come on - a little checkbox at the beginning of the game that says "check here if you want your ancestors to be bastilla and revan" or "check here if you want your ancestors to be Carth and Revan" is plain STUPID, and it would have no effect on the story I put forth whatsoever. Its a MEANINGLESS MECHANISM. Therefore, its better to pick the more powerful coupling of Bastilla and Revan, to make it sound more dominant. Its not like we are messing with canon here - you would get as much freedom in my storyline as you did in KOTOR 1 - moreso actually. You are crying over a damn checkbox.

Wouldn't be the first time done in a video game. Refer to my statement about Jedi Knight. Also, in Street Fighter, Ryu won the rist tournament, Guile the second, and in the Alpha series, it was mostly plotlines that intertwined, but none of the Bison meetings happened. In other words, you had a ton of stuff that was thrown out game to game, and had concrete decisions made, and still, the followups continues to be fun. So what if it tosses away the Carth - Revan romance? If the game and story is good, people will be over it in the first 5 minutes.

:D

Yep, it will be 3.5 rules.

Let me clarify. The head of Obsidian ran Black Isle Entertainment, which was responsible for Fallout 1 & 2, and Planescape: Torment. Yes, it is the first game as a group, but the people who are a part of this group are not amateurs.

I know, which is why I don't get why people complain about them - you didn't have to do them...

FYI - this isn't their first game. They did Baulders Gate: Black Isle, and some others I can't remember...

Geez, I enjoyed the romances. How about this as a fair solution - put romances in, but don't make them madnatory. This way, those who want romance as part of the story get it, and those that don't, don't have to? There, now everyone is happy.