The Incomplete Endings are lame.

[Mad_Scientist]

The "happy" moments in the game are few and far between as they are (although honestly, at the moment I can't think of a single one). Killing off the Jedi Superfriends without giving the PC any chance to save them is lousy. Half-killing the Jedi Superfriends and giving the PC a chance to sacrifice of hirself to save them: much better. There's real control over the story with the latter choice, there's a real sense that you can make a difference in the world instead of just being a manipulated helpless pawn despite your enormous power. Pffaugh.

 

That may very well have been the original plan. A lot of people are judging the cut endings based on a few scenes we have discovered, and are assuming that those scenes are how the game would have ended, period, no variation. This is despite the fact that many of those scenes are mutually exclusive. In one scene Atton dies, in another he turns evil, in another he confronts Kriea/Atris with your other companians and is wounded/killled, in another he is perhaps alive at the end of the game.

 

It seems to me that there was going to be a lot of variation in these ending scenes, a lot more than we can tell from the little pieces found so far. So I think it is a bit silly for someone to say that the cut endings are lame or horrible, when all we have is a few pieces of them.

[Aurora]

I know very well that there're quite a few cut endings, yes, with some wacky variety. But from what we have, there's no description of what the PC's sacrifice would have been: and there's no chance to save Atton.

 

I was more responding to the people who think it's awesome and realistic to kill off all the NPCs, or such.

[Laozi]

Personally I would have liked to see everyone die except HK and T3. I don't know if this is just because I really hated the end "as is" or if that would be better in the long run. Having Bao Dur sacrifice would have been much better story telling and Visas would have just made since. Mira basically dies eventually anyway so might as well kill her now

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I already explained why it would be impossible to have Jedi classes that were at the same time balanced, and fun to play with. In order to have a somewhat (!) balanced game mechanics (and stay true to the movies that gave birth to the setting), you must allow for certain compromises, such as the story overruling the ruleset at certain points.

 

I agree, nobody would accept that. But not because it went against the ruleset. Nobody would accept it because it would make no sense and it would be pretty sloppy storytelling. If the exile were to die in some meaningful sacrifice required to kill Kreia, I wouldn't have a problem with that. That would be one hell of an ending indeed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I accept that. But when I am playing a game the only reality I am interested in is that one created by the rules. If the rules dictate a small rock can destroy a planet, then thats the reality. Whether or not I find it difficult to accept.

 

Thats exactly the same thing as with Atton though. Your just throwing his life away to tell the story without paying attention to the reality. If you tootle along five minutes later and kill Sion in a couple of blows then Attons death is cheap. If what I do in the game with my character and the other characters has no ultimate point, then I may as well be watching a movie or reading a book.

[witchzenka]

You're ignoring the Will erosion, though.

[Mad_Scientist]

I know very well that there're quite a few cut endings, yes, with some wacky variety. But from what we have, there's no description of what the PC's sacrifice would have been: and there's no chance to save Atton.

 

I was more responding to the people who think it's awesome and realistic to kill off all the NPCs, or such.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True, it's hard to tell for sure from what we've found. But there was that one line of Kriea's that went something like: "He will have a choice. One path will let him save his companions, but he will be weaker for it. The other path will take him here directly and make him stronger, but he will have to sacrifice his companions."

It was something like that.

[213374U]

I accept that. But when I am playing a game the only reality I am interested in is that one created by the rules. If the rules dictate a small rock can destroy a planet, then thats the reality. Whether or not I find it difficult to accept.

Then perhaps you will never be happy with a SW game, because in those games the SW "feel" comes before whatever ruleset is in place.

 

 

Thats exactly the same thing as with Atton though. Your just throwing his life away to tell the story without paying attention to the reality. If you tootle along five minutes later and kill Sion in a couple of blows then Attons death is cheap.

Indeed. However Sion should have been a fearsome opponent to begin with, and Atton should have been a match for your exile, as you put it. That doesn't make much sense in the setting, because it's like saying that Han Solo could be a match for Luke Skywalker, and hence, for Lord Vader.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You're ignoring the Will erosion, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not really. If you smack him down and he keeps getting up engage stealth and hide behind a pillar. I'd have planted so many mines that it took him days to pull himself together again.

 

It was kind of funny when I met Sion you get this line about striking him down a 1000 times or something. I'm very glad it wasnt literal.

[Wycked]

You're ignoring the Will erosion, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ignoring the Will erosion, I totaly agree. Atton is capable of fighting a powerful character, and unless given a good storyline reason (the will erosion, in Sion's case), I would think it was cheap for Sion to beat Atton without effort.

 

There are some cases which I approve for breaking the game mechanics for the sake of story, and some cases I approve of the opposite, breaking the story for the sake of game mechanics. I have a situation-dependant point of view on this - some cases it's fine for me, others it's not.

[213374U]

Not really. If you smack him down and he keeps getting up engage stealth and hide behind a pillar. I'd have planted so many mines that it took him days to pull himself together again.

Now it's you who is ignoring game mechanics to make a point. Mines don't cause any permanent damage, and Sion can get back to full health faster than you can plant them, all from a game mechanics standpoint. And eventually, Atton would fail his Stealth check, it's a statistic.

[Laozi]

I can't beleive anyone would have a problem with Atton getting smacked around by a Sith Lord

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Then perhaps you will never be happy with a SW game, because in those games the SW "feel" comes before whatever ruleset is in place.

 

Indeed. However Sion should have been a fearsome opponent to begin with, and Atton should have been a match for your exile, as you put it. That doesn't make much sense in the setting, because it's like saying that Han Solo could be a match for Luke Skywalker, and hence, for Lord Vader.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Probably not totally happy. But KOTOR wasnt really anything like the movies, more like the clone wars cartoon in how it plays.

 

As long as it makes sense by the rules then it wont bother me. On the other hand Atton carving his way through the Dark Jedi like butter on Dxun and then being killed without a fight which I can then finish without breaking a sweat would most certainly. It's to much of a challenge to the reality upto that point.

 

If they had made Sion really strong on Korriban so that you were shaving off a cm of health per blow that might have done the trick. Because then when you meet Sion and he's killable (although not so easily as he was one would hope) then Attons part in it becomes clear he's weakened him in some way although it may not be clear how , it still makes a lot more sense.

 

On Korriban he went down so quick that when Kreia said run I was a tad incredulus. More like You grab his arms, you grab his legs and we can kill him on the ship in orbit.

[Aurora]

True, it's hard to tell for sure from what we've found. But there was that one line of Kriea's that went something like: "He will have a choice. One path will let him save his companions, but he will be weaker for it. The other path will take him here directly and make him stronger, but he will have to sacrifice his companions."

It was something like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

:: When the exile enters the Trayus Academy, she will be faced with a choice.

 

::{:: One path, assuming she survives, will allow her to save her friends, but she shall be the weaker for it. ::}

 

The Sith Assassins get up, and they begin to materialize off into the shadows.::

 

The other route will lead her directly to this place, through the ones that have hounded her steps through the beginning... and she shall have her vengeance.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Now it's you who is ignoring game mechanics to make a point. Mines don't cause any permanent damage, and Sion can get back to full health faster than you can plant them, all from a game mechanics standpoint. And eventually, Atton would fail his Stealth check, it's a statistic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bit of poetic liscence granted. But his awareness is near nil according to Kreia.

I've never tried planting mines in that battle. But they should cause damage the same as anything else, he's not immune or something is he?

 

But if I got the option to do that and failed, then it still makes sense when Atton loses, because he has lost in a gameplay way. Rather than a cheap way.

[213374U]

But his awareness is near nil according to Kreia.

Which brings up another point. Kreia said he's blinded by power, yet Sion can spot her, and chop off her hand. Perhaps Sion isn't as blind as Kreia thought.

And at any rate, Kreia seems to be a master at using the Force to hide, since not even the Jedi masters seemed able to perceive her presence. On the other hand, Atton's stealth comes from stealth generators. He wouldn't stay hidden from Sion for long.

 

 

But if I got the option to do that and failed, then it still makes sense when Atton loses, because he has lost in a gameplay way. Rather than a cheap way.

Does it really matter if you get the option? We have already proven how the outcome would be the same. Atton would eventually lose, if only because Sion *can't* be killed. I'd rather have a cutscene than a long boring battle whose outcome is predetermined by storyline and gameplay reasons.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Which brings up another point. Kreia said he's blinded by power, yet Sion can spot her, and chop off her hand. Perhaps Sion isn't as blind as Kreia thought.

And at any rate, Kreia seems to be a master at using the Force to hide, since not even the Jedi masters seemed able to perceive her presence. On the other hand, Atton's stealth comes from stealth generators. He wouldn't stay hidden from Sion for long.

 

Does it really matter if you get the option? We have already proven how the outcome would be the same. Atton would eventually lose, if only because Sion *can't* be killed. I'd rather have a cutscene than a long boring battle whose outcome is predetermined by storyline and gameplay reasons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When you attack stealth drops thats why she appeared and he chopped her hand off. She probably planned it that way of course.

 

Yes it matters a great deal. If I didnt want what I did in the game to matter I would be reading a book or watching a movie.

[213374U]

When you attack stealth drops thats why she appeared and he chopped her hand off. She probably planned it that way of course.

But she didn't attack. She was behind Sion and seemed rather surprised when he turned and cut off her hand.

 

 

Yes it matters a great deal. If I didnt want what I did in the game to matter I would be reading a book or watching a movie.

Uh, what you do in the game doesn't really matter because the story is already set. So, yeah.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

But she didn't attack. She was behind Sion and seemed rather surprised when he cut off her hand.

 

Uh, what you do in the game doesn't really matter because the story is already set. So, yeah.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

She was about to and that will break stealth, even if your halfway across the screen when you click it. He senses her, but he still cant find her. And thats more likely to do with the master apprentice thing like when Vader senses Obi Wan. Dont know how the D20,rules work but in WEG it was easier to sense those closer to you than complete strangers.

 

Not really, everything you do changes the journey. If people wont accept their own characters being used at the whim of the writer I see no reason to accept it for anyone else. In game terms they are just as real as my character.

[213374U]

She was about to and that will break stealth, even if your halfway across the screen when you click it.

So she was going to attack Sion at the same time she was talking to him? And why would she attack him knowing he can't be killed and that he is probably his superior in combat? No, Kreia hadn't attacked and wasn't planning on doing so either.

 

 

Not really, everything you do changes the journey.

In a very insignificant way. The plotlines are already defined, so the only decision that really makes a difference is to go DS or LS.

[AlanC9]

Looking at the cutscene, I think he doesn't really see Kreia. He just sort of cuesses she's behind him.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

So she was going to attack Sion at the same time she was talking to him? And why would she attack him knowing he can't be killed and that he is probably his superior in combat? No, Kreia hadn't attacked and wasn't planning on doing so either.

 

In a very insignificant way. The plotlines are already defined, so the only decision that really makes a difference is to go DS or LS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes it's really easy to swing a sword and talk at the same time. I'm sure she planned on getting wounded. Thats how she hooked the exile from the start. She's too smart for it to be anything else.

 

That depends on your point of view. Everything changes the journey. Every random act every choice makes one journey different from another, even if it's along the same path.

[213374U]

Yes it's really easy to swing a sword and talk at the same time. I'm sure she planned on getting wounded. Thats how she hooked the exile from the start. She's too smart for it to be anything else.

Ah, resorting to wild speculation always does the trick for you when facts are against you. I'm just describing what I saw in the cutscene. Sion turned back, swung his lightsaber in that precise moment, and chopped off Kreia's hand. And attacking Sion in order to get a little wounded would be rather risky because he wouldn't just settle for roughing her up a little.

 

 

That depends on your point of view. Everything changes the journey. Every random act every choice makes one journey different from another, even if it's along the same path.

Yeah, technically every playthrough is different because you won't walk exactly the same paths (literally), and won't fight the same enemies in the exact same locations. But the plot is already set, and that's what counts. You can't dispute this, no matter how hard you try.

 

I don't even know why I'm arguing with you. You are probably one of the most entrenched posters on this whole forum, and I have never seen you back down. It's my fault for not realizing before. It won't happen again.

[KirkBrujah]

Ah, resorting to wild speculation always does the trick for you when facts are against you. I'm just describing what I saw in the cutscene. Sion turned back, swung his lightsaber in that precise moment, and chopped off Kreia's hand. And attacking Sion in order to get a little wounded would be rather risky because he wouldn't just settle for roughing her up a little.

 

Ahh, so how *did* she get away from him to meet up with the others? Sion had just chopped her hand off, and that was the only significant thing the Exile felt. If Sion "wouldn't just settle for roughing her up a little" then why a) didn't the Exile feel her getting roughed up and b) Sion kill her?

Surely, after finding out that your old master was still about, you wouldn't just chop off her hand and let her go... Sion was a pawn, nothing more.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Ah, resorting to wild speculation always does the trick for you when facts are against you. I'm just describing what I saw in the cutscene. Sion turned back, swung his lightsaber in that precise moment, and chopped off Kreia's hand. And attacking Sion in order to get a little wounded would be rather risky because he wouldn't just settle for roughing her up a little.

 

Yeah, technically every playthrough is different because you won't walk exactly the same paths (literally), and won't fight the same enemies in the exact same locations. But the plot is already set, and that's what counts. You can't dispute this, no matter how hard you try.

 

I don't even know why I'm arguing with you. You are probably one of the most entrenched posters on this whole forum, and I have never seen you back down. It's my fault for not realizing before. It won't happen again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Speculation maybe but hardly wild. It never goes into how she manages to escape either. So she must have had a trick or two up her sleeve from the start.

 

The plot may be all that counts to you. But the character is the biggest part for me. And a different PC means a different character and a host of different possibilities.

 

Something to do? Well since this is just a case of opinion and ours differ , it's not like there will be a resolution. It's been interesting though.

[witchzenka]

I don't believe Sion ever intended to kill Kreia. Whether it was to increase her suffering by letting her live or because he simply could not kill her because she had such a psychological hold over him, I haven't completely decided. I'm leaning toward a combination of the two.