The Kreia/Kae Question

[The Great Phantom]

Forna, on behalf of all the people that have been verified as (senseful???), I appologize for our short attention spans in this topic. You really touched on a controversial issue with Kreia (even her name probably should be tabooed on these forums ), and, like all the other controversial topics I have participated on, opened up many questions involving Kreia. Perhaps we should put up a general consensus for the newcomers to the thread, huh?

 

Well, let's find another off topic disscussion, like... hmm... How did Kreia wash her hair? Or, how does somebody run so fast in those robes, and how does that robe even bend like that? Wow, I sense another controversy!

[phiont]

What happened to Jolees wife anyway?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She actually survived Exar Kun and changed her name to Kreia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(How's that, Phantom? " )

[OneWithStrange]

Has anyone wondered why our storyline questions haven't been answered by Obsidian? I admit I don't really see them doing so in any unofficial capacity, but it's still interesting to think on. Maybe the cut material is indeed going to be added in a patch?

 

-Ben

[The Great Phantom]

Kreia: The timeless thing that bugs everybody and always comes back around. Crud, she's worse than a fruitcake!

 

I think Kreia was actually pretty young during the Sith War, but I may be wrong... If there's any possibility of her 'being' with Yusannis, then I'd have to say she was indeed quite young at that time...

[The Great Phantom]

Has anyone wondered why our storyline questions haven't been answered by Obsidian?  I admit I don't really see them doing so in any unofficial capacity, but it's still interesting to think on.  Maybe the cut material is indeed going to be added in a patch?

 

-Ben

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Either that or they've given up on the patch... I'm willing to wait for Kotor III to get closure, though. I sure do hope they make a Kotor III, too...

 

Has anybody asked one of the mods to answer some of the questions here? Caus I had to tell a moderator about a certain thread a while back (it was over 10 pages, too...), and they apparently had no idea what was stagnating in the forums...

[DarthWeevil]

Has anyone wondered why our storyline questions haven't been answered by Obsidian?  I admit I don't really see them doing so in any unofficial capacity, but it's still interesting to think on.  Maybe the cut material is indeed going to be added in a patch?

 

-Ben

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Either that or they've given up on the patch... I'm willing to wait for Kotor III to get closure, though. I sure do hope they make a Kotor III, too...

 

Has anybody asked one of the mods to answer some of the questions here? Caus I had to tell a moderator about a certain thread a while back (it was over 10 pages, too...), and they apparently had no idea what was stagnating in the forums...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My opinion.

 

Its a whole can of worms they do NOT want to open, and wisely so. not for a while at least.

[Jediphile]

What happened to Jolees wife anyway?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She actually survived Exar Kun and changed her name to Kreia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(How's that, Phantom? " )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

LOL

 

Influence gained

 

 

If you listen carefully, you can almost hear Kreia laughing at us from beyond the grave...

[The Great Phantom]

Really? I thought those were her continued whispers... Well, I'm not listening to them again. I already owe 50 hours of community service... (Jk, I hope)

[Jediphile]

She became a

Dark Jedi and was killed near the end of the Exar Kun war

.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

I knew she became a dark jedi. But was she provably killed or was it just what Jolee said ?

 

 

And what is the Exar Kun war ? Is that other name for the Mandalorian wars?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No its a war before the Mandalorian War, Exar Kun was a powerful Dark Jedi, who waged war on the republic and the Council, IIRC he made his temple on Yavin 4, and a Jedi fleet had to bombard him from orbit or something to take him out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

It's actually called "The Sith War" because the Sith fought internally for power, primarily Exar Kun and Ulic-Qel Droma, both of which are heavily referenced in the KotOR games (this is all from the Tales of the Jedi comic books).

 

If you visit Yavin station in KotOR1, the rodian hiding out there gives more background on the Sith War. Not that it's really important...

 

Also - just to put it into context - the Mandalorian Wars took place some five years before the events of KotOR1. The Sith War took place about 35 years before that, though the Mandalorians were involved (the Mandalore of the time sided with the Sith). The turmoil of the situation after the years of war in the republic probably seemed like an excellent opportunity to conquer the republic for the Mandalorians.

[phiont]

I'm not all that surprised that Obsidian hasn't commented on this Kreia/Kae thing. I look at it this way. It will be no small task for KotOR III's developer to cater to the 16 different degrees of freedom generated by Revan and Exile each being either male or female and good or evil. So, to simplify matters, I suspect KotOR III may look back more on fixed characters like Kreia - the one party member whose alignment never moved.

 

Yeah, I know she's supposed to be dead. But, she was also supposed to be dead when the Harbinger crew and Peragus people found her, right? I suspect that much of what we've delved into here in this thread may indeed form some of the backstory or even frontstory for the next episode. Instead of being part of a cut storyline it may actually be part of a story that is still waiting to be told.

[Jedi Master Dakari]

LOL

 

Influence gained original.gif

 

 

If you listen carefully, you can almost hear Kreia laughing at us from beyond the grave...

 

--------------------

 

Really? I thought those were her continued whispers... Well, I'm not listening to them again. I already owe 50 hours of community service... tongue.gif (Jk, I hope)

 

 

Nah, all I heard were ECHOES.

 

PS: Am I, seriously, the only one who got sick of hearing that word - over and over - throughout the entire game?

[dufflover]

#1. Kreia is Handmaiden's Mom?

I dunno, but please God, no!

[Arathorn_Skywalker]

Hi,

 

I think that if you look in the conversation about the Handmaiden's mom, She says she felt the passing of her mother. i am not positive about this and will check but i seem to recall her saying she felt her mothers death.

 

Hope i am right LOL!

[The Great Phantom]

LOL

 

Influence gained original.gif

 

 

If you listen carefully, you can almost hear Kreia laughing at us from beyond the grave...

 

--------------------

 

Really? I thought those were her continued whispers... Well, I'm not listening to them again. I already owe 50 hours of community service... tongue.gif (Jk, I hope)

 

 

Nah, all I heard were ECHOES.

 

PS: Am I, seriously, the only one who got sick of hearing that word - over and over - throughout the entire game?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No. I got really tired after the 1000th time she talked about echoes. I already knew her plans (come on, all the talk about one echo in the right place, etc, and the Only the Strong deserve to live, etc.!!!), and I got sick of her quickly. I managed to gain full influence after the 1st two planets ON LIGHT SIDE!!! The only reason why I tolerated her was because she talked about Revan... *sigh* Those were the days...

 

:ph34r:

 

 

Oh, and Arathorn: I have said something like this in the ancient beginnings of this thread. She does say things like this all over, but either theory (Apprentice or Arren herself) is highly likely.

[Mucka_Heartagram]

I'm not all that surprised that Obsidian hasn't commented on this Kreia/Kae thing.  I look at it this way.  It will be no small task for KotOR III's developer to cater to the 16 different degrees of freedom generated by Revan and Exile each being either male or female and good or evil.  So, to simplify matters, I suspect KotOR III may look back more on fixed characters like Kreia - the one party member whose alignment never moved.

 

Yeah, I know she's supposed to be dead.  But, she was also supposed to be dead when the Harbinger crew and Peragus people found her, right?  I suspect that much of what we've delved into here in this thread may indeed form some of the backstory or even frontstory for the next episode.  Instead of being part of a cut storyline it may actually be part of a story that is still waiting to be told.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I said in another topic that the easiest way for whoever produces k3 to intergrate Reven and the Exile is to have a Q&A session at the start of the game but then have them also choose what they look like somehow as well.

 

Maybe have somebody say they have picture of Reven and then you select the face you used and same for Exile. That sounds Lame i know but somebody could come up with something better. What you think bout the basic idea??

[phiont]

Am I, seriously, the only one who got sick of hearing that word - over and over - throughout the entire game?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No.

 

She says she felt the passing of her mother.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No.

 

I said in another topic that the easiest way for whoever produces k3 to intergrate Reven and the Exile is to have a Q&A session at the start of the game but then have them also choose what they look like somehow as well.

 

Maybe have somebody say they have picture of Reven and then you select the face you used and same for Exile. That sounds Lame i know but somebody could come up with something better. What you think bout the basic idea??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree with the first idea of setting Revan & Exile with a simple portrait/alignment selection menu before starting the game. At first, I actually got impatient with the Atton-chat and told him I didn't care about history. A short while later I realised the implications and had to replay that scene.

 

However, none of this will reduce the number of options that have to be built around in the KotOR III game if Revan & Exile remain significant parts of the future story. That's why I think they won't. It will be much easier to keep Kreia.

[tonkpils]

in response to kreia's age, as posted a while back, you need to understand the balance of the force. there are many jedi, thousands upon thousands. the sith are few, but, a sith can easily kill many jedi. jedi live a very long time (if i recall correctly Yoda was in his 900's). so in order to balance the force you can infer that the sith are so consumed by power that the dark side kills their body slowly, making them age quickly and develop creases. kreia might be applied to this logic if she is in fact a sith for a long time, the 10 or 15 years after she was exiled. you cannot argue the balance of power because i can recall that exar kun killed thousands (or millions?) of jedi at his last stand. kreia can concievably be 35 years old and have the appearance of a 60, maybe 70 year old woman.

[yellow_lenghan]

I just finished the game for my first time... wow! Great storyline! All those "untolds, what if, could it be" reminds me alot of Planescape. Great stuff!

 

 

At the end, before the final fight, Kreia clearly states that she was stripped from the force. When we ask if she could have used other jedis beside us...

 

Kreia:

No, there were not. In times past and in times future, there are Jedi who will stop listening to the Force, those that will try to forget it, but maintain unconscious ties. {Quiet}And those, as in the past just as I, who have had the force stripped from them. But no Jedi ever made the choice you did. To sever ties so completely, so utterly, that it leaves a wound in the Force.It was a mistake to try to make you feel it again, I see that now. There is no truth in the Force. But there is truth in you, exile. And that is why I chose you.

 

My question is WHO stripped her from the force and WHEN does it happened? As she said, it was not a choice she made. So it's not like the exile who willingly disconnected himself from the force to survive the death of thousands people/jedi having "bonds" with him. So if someone stipped the force from her, I guess it had to occured before Malachor V.

 

Could it be the jedi council? As Vrook said first time you meet him, it is in the power of the council to strip someone from the force, but this hasn't happened in a long time and the council didn't do it to the exile. So can this be a reference to the council stripping Kreia of the force?

 

The question brought by this is, what is the soo terrible thing that kreia did to receive such punishment? I don't know when that stripping occured, but I cannot really say that it is because she always trained flawed padawans. To my knowledge, only Revan was reported as a flawed padawan before Kreia was sent into exile (and possible being stripped of the force at the same occasion). And if that was the reason, I found it a quite heavy punishment for only one flawed padawan.

 

So to get back on topic of the initial post, I like a lot the theory of Kreia being Kea. But my biggest drawback is that Kreia has been stripped of the force (possible by the council, but that's not certain) and that I see no reason at all for Kea tha Handmaiden's mother to receive this punishment. Having a child, leaving for the mandalorian wars... that can bring exile as punishment, but not removal of the force. And there are never mention of Master Kea being stripped of the force by the council. To me, she seemed like a respected Jedi Master until that her baby was discovered, that she followed Revan to war and was exiled.

 

=> EDIT: Ok, surely no big news for anyone reading the spoiler forum, but I see now that it is Nihilus and Sion who stripped Kreia of the force (as seen in the first movie when you talk to Keira about her background on the ebon hawk). So it's not the Council... I am almost desappointed <_<

 

So as Keira's removal of the force occured after Master Kea was exiled, then yes they could both be the same person. Btw, how does she recconnected to the force so easily? To be able to teach prescience stuff and jedi tricks to the Exile, you have to be more then barely reconnected to the forec, no?

[yellow_lenghan]

Also in the end, when you ask If Kreia manipulated you all along...

 

Kreia:

Yes, always. From the moment you awoke, I have used you. I have used you so that you might become strong, stronger than I. I used your death to deceive the Sith, to make them believe they had won, so they would turn on each other. And I used you to make those who wounded me reveal themselves, so they could be killed by the Republic. I used you to keep the Lords of the Sith from condemning the galaxy to death with their power unchecked. I used you to lure them to Telos, where they could be, at last, fought and killed. I used you to reveal Atris' corruption, so that her teachings could be ended before they began. I used you to gather the Jedi so they could be destroyed. And I used you to make those who wounded me reveal themselves, so they could be killed by the Republic.

 

The sentence in bold...(It's probably a glitch, but it really comes two times.)

Of whom is Kreia talking about? Who are the "those who wounded me reveal themselves"? Is she refering to Sion who cuts her hand (not likely)? or to the people who stripped her from the force (Sion, Nihilus) ? or to the people who betrayed her (council? or maybe Sion and Nihilius? or Atris if she betrayed her which I doubt) ?

 

Or maybe the fact that the sentence is repeated two times is not a glitch. It's maybe one time to designate Sion and Nihilus who stripped her from the force, and one time to designate the council who exiled her for having a child and going to war.

 

Edit: Also why didn't Sion and Nihilius killed Kreia when they stripped her of the force?

[Frank]

Hey I don't mean to sh!t on your theory or anything but for your idea to work the whole timeline of the game would have to be shifted. Arren Kae was supposed to be young right? The Mandalorian wars (according to game time) happened only 5 years before TSL. Kreia's old as hell. There's no way that would work.

 

My bad if someone already mentioned this but I was too lazy to scroll through the pages and check. ;/

[Grant Dempsey]

Also in the end, when you ask If Kreia manipulated you all along...

 

Kreia:

Yes, always. From the moment you awoke, I have used you. I have used you so that you might become strong, stronger than I. I used your death to deceive the Sith, to make them believe they had won, so they would turn on each other. And I used you to make those who wounded me reveal themselves, so they could be killed by the Republic. I used you to keep the Lords of the Sith from condemning the galaxy to death with their power unchecked. I used you to lure them to Telos, where they could be, at last, fought and killed. I used you to reveal Atris' corruption, so that her teachings could be ended before they began. I used you to gather the Jedi so they could be destroyed. And I used you to make those who wounded me reveal themselves, so they could be killed by the Republic.

 

The sentence in bold...(It's probably a glitch, but it really comes two times.)

Of whom is Kreia talking about?  Who are the "those who wounded me reveal themselves"?  Is she refering to Sion who cuts her hand (not likely)? or to the people who stripped her from the force (Sion, Nihilus) ? or to the people who betrayed her (council? or maybe Sion and Nihilius? or Atris if she betrayed her which I doubt) ?

 

Or maybe the fact that the sentence is repeated two times is not a glitch. It's maybe one time to designate Sion and Nihilus who stripped her from the force, and one time to designate the council who exiled her for having a child and going to war.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second. I'm more interested in this line... "I used your death to deceive the Sith, to make them believe they had won, so they would turn on each other." Was that from cut dialogue? I certainly don't remember it from anytime I'd ever played the game...

 

Perhaps she was referring to whatever incident it was that would've triggered the other playable characters' "thoughts" about the Exile's death, from the cut content. Actually, perhaps she was referring to when she "struck down" the Exile on Dantooine (y'know -- when, after Kreia then left with the Handmaiden(s), the Exile awoke and learned either Force Enlightenment or Force Crush). I also recall dialogue from another cut scene that was posted on this forum, which indicated that Darth Sion would've paid a visit to Darth Nihilus, telling him that he has "succeeded in wiping out the Jedi" and that their alliance was over.

 

I think the chain of events was going to be that the scene on Dantooine would've played, with Kreia "striking down" the Exile (and the Jedi Masters, depending on the Exile's alignment) for the sake of masking his presence amidst the "echoes" of Dantooine (since she explicitly spoke of Dantooine's unique "connection" in the Dark Side version of that scene), then leaving with either the Handmaiden or the Handmaiden Sisters (depending on whether the Exile was male or female). Then, that scene on the Ravager with Darth Sion visiting Darth Nihilus and announcing both the fall of the "last Jedi" and the end of their alliance would've played, followed by the "thought montage" sequence with the other playable characters, which would then lead directly into the Exile awakening from his "death" on Dantooine and learning either Force Enlightenment or Force Crush.

 

I think that would've been what Kreia was referring to when she said, "I used your death to deceive the Sith, to make them believe they had won, so they would turn on each other."

[yellow_lenghan]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second. I'm more interested in this line... "I used your death to deceive the Sith, to make them believe they had won, so they would turn on each other." Was that from cut dialogue? I certainly don't remember it from anytime I'd ever played the game...

 

Yes, from memory it's definitely in the game as light side male (I only played once). My quote is a cut and paste of the file dialog.tlk.

 

Perhaps she was referring to whatever incident it was that would've triggered the other playable characters' "thoughts" about the Exile's death, from the cut content. Actually, perhaps she was referring to when she "struck down" the Exile on Dantooine (y'know -- when, after Kreia then left with the Handmaiden(s), the Exile awoke and learned either Force Enlightenment or Force Crush). I also recall dialogue from another cut scene that was posted on this forum, which indicated that Darth Sion would've paid a visit to Darth Nihilus, telling him that he has "succeeded in wiping out the Jedi" and that their alliance was over.

 

I never saw this movie of Nihilus talking with Sion. I only unlocked 54 of the 65 movies available in this first playthrough. So it's maybe one the 11 movies not unlocked or it's a movie that was cut but still presents in the files somewhere. If such a movie exists, then your deductions make much senses.

[Jivin]

The idea that Kreia used dantooine and the slaying of the remaining council members to mask the exiles "death" makes sense to me... but how did the sith turn on each other? I don't remember a scene in particular that portrayed that... maybe someone could remind me?

[Grant Dempsey]

Yes, from memory it's definitely in the game as light side male (I only played once). My quote is a cut and paste of the file dialog.tlk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was never there on any of my playthroughs...one of which was indeed a male Light Side character.

 

I never saw this movie of Nihilus talking with Sion. I only unlocked 54 of the 65 movies available in this first playthrough. So it's maybe one the 11 movies not unlocked or it's a movie that was cut but still presents in the files somewhere. If such a movie exists, then your deductions make much senses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think it was necessarily a movie movie (as in one of the movies accessible from the main menu). It might've been just a scene. It definetly came from content that was cut from the game, though. I recall reading the dialogue from it in one of the "cut content" threads on this forum.

[The Great Phantom]

Kreia wanted revenge on WAY too many people to keep track of. She admits 2 Disciple that she wanted to kill the ENTIRE galaxy just to prove a point to the Jedi Council, she wants revenge on Nihilus and Sion for betraying her, and there may be others...

 

That one Droid Lady on Dantooine in Kotor I: Listen, Kreia, I thought there were no hard feelings, you know? I'm sure my droid knew the consequences of his actions!

 

Kreia: I will show that droid once and for all that I am the ONLY one for him! Die!!!

 

The Suicidal Droid Lover from Kotor I: Oh, please, stop fighting over me! There's more than enough to go around!

 

*Fanclub of Droid Romances gather around, grabbing onto the droids arms*: Oh, C8, your sooooooo cold!

 

 

*Shudders and goes to schedule another therapy session*