Kaftan Barlast Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 Arent we supposed to be panicking now, declaring long-supresssed desire to eachother, confessing sordid experiences and generally behaving like madmen? DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
wannabealoser125 Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 The suspense is killing me <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yea, especaily since it looks like michael chu and akari keep getting on and off back and forth. Why cant they simply post somthing about the status of the forum closures.
Child of Flame Posted March 8, 2005 Author Posted March 8, 2005 I got word from on high (Feargie) via PM, that the forums are going to stay open (for now :ph34r: ), and that he's 'trying to come up with a solution', 'which will probably involve slightly more moderator power and then a community manager in the next couple of months.' There was also the cryptic statement: "I just need to get the natives to quiet down a bit, so things stop spilling over out of the forum." Also, no one send him PMs, because unless he has some freaky module that converts every PM sent to him into an email...he lumps them into the same category as emails and thus that's what he was annoyed at.
wannabealoser125 Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 I got word from on high (Feargie) via PM, that the forums are going to stay open (for now :ph34r: ), and that he's 'trying to come up with a solution', 'which will probably involve slightly more moderator power and then a community manager in the next couple of months.' There was also the cryptic statement: "I just need to get the natives to quiet down a bit, so things stop spilling over out of the forum." Also, no one send him PMs, because unless he has some freaky module that converts every PM sent to him into an email...he lumps them into the same category as emails and thus that's what he was annoyed at. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Verry good to hear.... at least now we no what to fix
jaguars4ever Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 I got word from on high (Feargie) via PM, that the forums are going to stay open (for now :ph34r: ), and that he's 'trying to come up with a solution', 'which will probably involve slightly more moderator power and then a community manager in the next couple of months.' There was also the cryptic statement: "I just need to get the natives to quiet down a bit, so things stop spilling over out of the forum." Also, no one send him PMs, because unless he has some freaky module that converts every PM sent to him into an email...he lumps them into the same category as emails and thus that's what he was annoyed at. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And you ascertained that by sending him a PM? Good Man. ^_^
Gorth Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 yea, especaily since it looks like michael chu and akari keep getting on and off back and forth. Why cant they simply post somthing about the status of the forum closures. Perhaps they just enjoy watching people squirm around a bit, like ants under the looking glass “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
kumquatq3 Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 Thats good to hear While I can understand the reasons this threat was made, I have to agree with ShadowPal that all the devs/Feargus needed to do was to start a thread to talk to us. Wouldn't have taken much more effort than what was done. but no harm no foul I suppose.
B5C Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 I guess Obsidian is allready prepairing to battle with the natives.
Feargus Urquhart Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 A part of my reasons for shutting the boards down is the negativity of the posts. If I didn't take that into consideration I would just be being dumb. I need Obsidian to have a positive image to keep the company running and making it possible for us to continue getting contracts with publishers. I do, honestly whether you think so or not Grommie, want to figure some way to at limit some of the pointless posts not to eliminate the negativity, but just make it easier on me and the rest of Obsidian to answer questions without having to wade through pointless posts. That's probably selfish, because I would like to be able to respond to posts more than I have over the past six months. Feargus Urquhart CEO Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.
jaguars4ever Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 A part of my reasons for shutting the boards down is the negativity of the posts. If I didn't take that into consideration I would just be being dumb. I need Obsidian to have a positive image to keep the company running and making it possible for us to continue getting contracts with publishers. I do, honestly whether you think so or not Grommie, want to figure some way to at limit some of the pointless posts not to eliminate the negativity, but just make it easier on me and the rest of Obsidian to answer questions without having to wade through pointless posts. That's probably selfish, because I would like to be able to respond to posts more than I have over the past six months. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sadly, the only practical way to achieve that is to enforce a "Bioware style of moderation". It's up to you really, but frankly I think what we curently have is the lesser of two evils.
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 A part of my reasons for shutting the boards down is the negativity of the posts. If I didn't take that into consideration I would just be being dumb. I need Obsidian to have a positive image to keep the company running and making it possible for us to continue getting contracts with publishers. I do, honestly whether you think so or not Grommie, want to figure some way to at limit some of the pointless posts not to eliminate the negativity, but just make it easier on me and the rest of Obsidian to answer questions without having to wade through pointless posts. That's probably selfish, because I would like to be able to respond to posts more than I have over the past six months. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think the developer thread idea could work. It would mean only having to look at a certain number of threads and if the moderators didnt mind, perhaps people could submit things they felt were important for consideration. Some extra stickies which deal with questions such as "when is the patch due" would probably help too. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback]
NeverwinterKnight Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 Sadly, the only practical way to achieve that is to enforce a "Bioware style of moderation". It's up to you really, but frankly I think what we curently have is the lesser of two evils. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i dont think thats necessarily the case. there is such a thing as "in between". for instance, it would make sense that any and all posts that contain what most people would define as "spamming, trolling, or flaming" would be deleted. i shouldnt have to give examples of these because they should be easy to spot based on their tone and what the content of the posts actually say. so right there, thats a good percentage of the "negative" posts eliminated without even having to worry about being moderation-nazis. after that, it comes down to banning a user after perhaps one warning, letting the user know what exactly they shouldnt be posting about, and if they persist, then an immediate ban. again, not moderation-nazi since the person got a warning and at the same time should clue in to what is and isnt acceptable thus giving them a chance to refrain from doing it again. imo, the only difficult part will be when it comes to how strict constructive cristisism moderations will be. i dont envy the mods or devs on this one, since this is more open for interpretation than the above two examples. but even if they stuck firm to the first two examples, youd see a cut down in useless and inflamatory posts instantly, and youd also see a huge cut down in trolls signing up for no other reason than to stir the pot.
Arkan Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 There was also the cryptic statement: "I just need to get the natives to quiet down a bit, so things stop spilling over out of the forum." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What exactly is this supposed to mean? "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta
Gromnir Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Stephen Amber Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 Interaction with fans is'nt part of their job description. I'm sure if they had some clause incentive ".0005% pay increase after 500 posts", or something, that might be different. It comes down to the predilection of the individuals on the team. You have natural polemists like JE, but he was one of those rare exceptions. He was really more interested in presenting what he thought to be unassailable arguments, and then defending them. He simply enjoyed arguing... I mention him specifically since he, more than anyone else, was responsible for the "mood" shall we say of the old Interplay Boards, in which the fans came to expect this free flow, this interchange, of information. Maybe people expected that to carry on here, even though he's not a part of Obsidian. *shrugs* As to why others around here choose/chose not to speak up, that's their business. Sports/Rock Star is'nt really that accurate of an analogy. Novelist might be better. Or ship in the bottle maker... har har Introversion, patience levels(1000s of worthless posts to wade through), work load(no time),... these folks have plenty of reasons for not posting. And it's certainly not recreational for them(cept for JE), since, unlike fans, they have to be carefull about what they type.
Gromnir Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 "Interaction with fans is'nt part of their job description." true enough... but if there ain't no interaction then there ain't no point in having boards. "your developers is not rock stars or sports idols, but they is the next best thing in these message board circles." we distinctly recall using the word "not." not rock stars. not sports idols. regardless, the developers manages to attract fans on these boards simply by being seen. recall when josh quit? we suddenly had a dozen news sites reporting on the "incident," and hundreds of posts popped up at bis and elsewhere asking if bis were now dead. dave m had quit a short time earlier and we never heard a peep 'bout it. ask self why there were different perception. *shrug* again, if you not have feedback, then there ain "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Stephen Amber Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 yes Josh quit... quite the publicity stunt and now he's where? midway games(?) working a universe away from rpgs... - rock star -/+ rock star + rock star
Jedi_Master_Darkor Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 My last post... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Fixed.
Gromnir Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 yes Josh quit... quite the publicity stunt and now he's where? midway games(?) working a universe away from rpgs... - rock star -/+ rock star + rock star <{POST_SNAPBACK}> josh were sick and tired of crpgs... is not like he got stuck working at midway. were a pretty good gig for a guy who were a junior developer on one successful game, lead on two games that tanked, and were part of a team that cancelled 3 other games. regardless, the point is that josh was widely recognized in the gamer community... and that recognition was more a matter of his visibility on boards than due to his r "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Darque Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 A part of my reasons for shutting the boards down is the negativity of the posts. If I didn't take that into consideration I would just be being dumb. I need Obsidian to have a positive image to keep the company running and making it possible for us to continue getting contracts with publishers. I do, honestly whether you think so or not Grommie, want to figure some way to at limit some of the pointless posts not to eliminate the negativity, but just make it easier on me and the rest of Obsidian to answer questions without having to wade through pointless posts. That's probably selfish, because I would like to be able to respond to posts more than I have over the past six months. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think the developer thread idea could work. It would mean only having to look at a certain number of threads and if the moderators didnt mind, perhaps people could submit things they felt were important for consideration. Some extra stickies which deal with questions such as "when is the patch due" would probably help too. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's a good idea actually. Back when I beta'd SWG (and before) that's how the devs did things, they made their own threads (though they did post in others) and tended to stay focused in them. Probably made it a lot easier for them to post, navigate and respond.
Piotr Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 Coming to you this week, hosted by the Mutual of Omaha, the Mutual of Omaha Nature Hour!
Darque Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 Umm... the announcement is gone and the forums are still open... does that mean they aren't closing?
B5C Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 Umm... the announcement is gone and the forums are still open... does that mean they aren't closing? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Victory!
Althernai Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 Well, it's my impression that Feargus had wanted a more robust community, a place where people would talk about things with merit and substance, and not be filled with spam, flames, whining, griping, indignation and arrogant demands. All computer game forums (and many others as well) have posts that include some or all of these. There is also some merit and substance, both positive and negative. Here is my view of the problem. These boards (or at least the KotOR2) section of them suffer from what I would call a nasty application of the Kangaxx Principle. If you recall the BG2 boards, you'll remember that no matter how many times it was discussed, no matter how many Tactics stickies were posted, regardless of the song -- there would always be someone who came to the boards to start a new thread about Kangaxx. The moral is this: if there is something genuinely confusing or frustrating in a game, people will come to talk about it. Unfortunately, whereas in the case of BG2 the confusion arose from a difficult to discover and completely optional mini-quest, in the case if TSL the source of the confusion is the ending. I don't know about other people, but the ending left me with a lot of questions I wanted to discuss. Furthermore (and also unfortunately), whereas with Kangaxx the newbie would walk off with half a dozen foolproof tactics that spelled the doom of the Demi-Lich, in the case of TSL's ending, nobody can provide answers people agree on. Worse, the discussion usually turns to something like "Ah, but did you know that they cut x, y and z and it would have made a lot more sense with them?" And then, almost inevitably: "Oh yes, this would be great, too bad this game just wasn't finished" followed by completely inevitable assignments of blame to the publisher, the developer, the industry as a whole and/or miscellaneous others. Occasionally, the more self-righteous will demand that the ending of the game be redone or something of the sort (take no offense here, these are not my sentiments; they are a summary of what you've no doubt seen for yourself in many such threads). Like Kangaxx, these threads will not go away on their own. Last time I checked the BG2 boards at Bioware, there were still fairly recent Kangaxx threads around. You just have to recognize that you have something confusing in your game and as new players encounter it, they will bring it up over and over and over again. There has to be some way of dealing with it. Either get rid of these threads (bad idea... it's not the newbie's fault that you don't like the discussion that arises and they will not be happy) or steer the discussion away from the nasty lines mentioned above. Surely there is something developers can say about the ending or on some other subject. If you are actually there in person, people will defend you. On the other hand, when developers' posts on the matter have to be quoted from other boards, people get upset.
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