KoToR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[Judge Hades]

The game time is about 40 hours, not 30 unless you either a)rush through everything or b)have played it enough to know exactly where you have to go.  Game time is only relevant on your first play through.  After that, too many factors come in to skewer an accurate count of time.  And I doubt you finished in 30 hours on your first play thru.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I beaten KotOR 1 under 35 hours my first time through. It took me 27 hours on my first time through KotOR 2.

[GhostofAnakin]

Lies.

[mastah vandah]

you know..i was really thinking about how the third game would unfold if it ever came out and i was hoping that Obsidian would take on kotor 3 and really have some time to develop it.It's been announced here at that "Obsidian's Third Game" thread that Obsidian is working on a third project that doesn't have the Bioware liscence (they didnt mention anything about a LA liscence) and also that the project is NOT a sequel.....umm...let me try and stay calm...that not only rules out kotor 3...but its pretty safe to say Bioware is too busy with a possible first person shooter, maybe Jade Empire 2 and that DA game for the PC.. and it seems LA laid off the development team responsible for starting the production of KOTOR 3...i mean am i the only one who is kind of upset the game might not even be announced this year at E3? I don't wanna pick a fight or anything, just adding this to the table...

[Jedi Master Dakari]

I'm just going to reiterate what I posted earlier...

 

I would like to see the forced classes (eg. Jedi Guardian, Jedi Sentinel, Jedi Consular) go out the window. I want there to be an implimentation of the orginal (movie) StarWars classes (eg. Jedi Padawan, Jedi Knight, Jedi Master.)

 

I fell that K3 should start with a new character who has begun his training as a Jedi Padawan in the revived Jedi Order on Coruscant.

 

The revived Jedi Order should have the new Jedi High Council consist of Bastila, Mical, Briana, and possibly Jolee being four of the twelve Jedi Master. Briana would be the new Jedi Historian (assuming Atris's role) very much like Yaddle in Episode I's High Council and Jocasta Nu before her. I would also love to see a Rakatan Jedi Master on this new Council. I mean, when you left them in K1 they were experimenting with reintroducing midi-chlorians back into their DNA. They also want to make peace with the galaxy for the crimes of their ancestors. What bettrer way to pay the galaxy back then by becoming a Jedi.

 

I would like for the game to start with you being a level 1 Jedi Padawan. Possibly have a member of the Council as your master. Maybe not. Anyway, when you reach level 15 you automatically become a Jedi Knight with new feats, skills, and force powers open to you; and you no longer have your master in your party (if he/she is in your party anyway) because there is no more use for him/her. Also, at level15 you could also select your very own Jedi Padawan (giving you a side-quest depending on their gender.) Once your character reaches level30 (your Padawan reaching level15, you having successfully trained him/her to Knighthood) you become a Jedi Master; with the most advanced feats, skills, and force powers open to you. This would be a perfect way to get rid of the forced classes that do not even exist in the movies. For example, Barris Ofee was a Padawan. When she reached Knighthood, sure she took on the position of a Jedi Healer, but she is still a Jedi Knight (plain and simple) reguardless. And had she lived to train a Padawan who succeeded in his/her trials and became a Knight, then she would have likewise been ordained a Jedi Master. Simple as that.

 

Just take away the forced classes and turn their (until now) restricted feats and make them universal. Sure you wont be able to get them all but atleast you will be able to get the better feats of all classes and not be stuck with a Jedi Master who can't even hold his lightsaber straight, or a Jedi Weapon Master who can't stun a frog much less shock a Sith like in K2. It's ridiculous that the character should be forced into such cirumstances when in "real" Star Wars there are no restrictions other than the Jedi's own strength with the force or weakness of the mind. And even these can be changed with discipline.

 

Anyway, I've rambled enough. I think I might have gotten my point across but if anyone has any questions feel free to PM me or post a message here.

[Jedi Master Dakari]

PS: Going back to the Atris, Briana, Jocasta Nu, thingy about the Jedi Historian...

 

Does anyone other than myself see a resemblence in the robes of Atris, and then the robes of Jocasta Nu? Is it possible that these robes may be the traditional garment handed down, or stylized, from one Historian to the next? With thousands of years passed resulting in the not-so-white Atris looking robes on Jocasta Nu in Episode II. They both seem to "bear the symbols of the Ansata, indicating devotion to knowledge and learning."

 

Here's a link if you wanna check...Star Wars Databanks: Jocasta Nu - Expanded Universe

[playloud]

I'm just going to reiterate what I posted earlier...

 

I would like to see the forced classes (eg. Jedi Guardian, Jedi Sentinel, Jedi Consular) go out the window. I want there to be an implimentation of the orginal (movie) StarWars classes (eg. Jedi Padawan, Jedi Knight, Jedi Master.)

 

I fell that K3 should start with a new character who has begun his training as a Jedi Padawan in the revived Jedi Order on Coruscant.

 

The revived Jedi Order should have the new Jedi High Council consist of Bastila, Mical, Briana, and possibly Jolee being four of the twelve Jedi Master. Briana would be the new Jedi Historian (assuming Atris's role) very much like Yaddle in Episode I's High Council and Jocasta Nu before her. I would also love to see a Rakatan Jedi Master on this new Council. I mean, when you left them in K1 they were experimenting with reintroducing midi-chlorians back into their DNA. They also want to make peace with the galaxy for the crimes of their ancestors. What bettrer way to pay the galaxy back then by becoming a Jedi.

 

I would like for the game to start with you being a level 1 Jedi Padawan. Possibly have a member of the Council as your master. Maybe not. Anyway, when you reach level 15 you automatically become a Jedi Knight with new feats, skills, and force powers open to you; and you no longer have your master in your party (if he/she is in your party anyway) because there is no more use for him/her. Also, at level15 you could also select your very own Jedi Padawan (giving you a side-quest depending on their gender.) Once your character reaches level30 (your Padawan reaching level15, you having successfully trained him/her to Knighthood) you become a Jedi Master; with the most advanced feats, skills, and force powers open to you. This would be a perfect way to get rid of the forced classes that do not even exist in the movies. For example, Barris Ofee was a Padawan. When she reached Knighthood, sure she took on the position of a Jedi Healer, but she is still a Jedi Knight (plain and simple) reguardless. And had she lived to train a Padawan who succeeded in his/her trials and became a Knight, then she would have likewise been ordained a Jedi Master. Simple as that.

 

Just take away the forced classes and turn their (until now) restricted feats and make them universal. Sure you wont be able to get them all but atleast you will be able to get the better feats of all classes and not be stuck with a Jedi Master who can't even hold his lightsaber straight, or a Jedi Weapon Master who can't stun a frog much less shock a Sith like in K2. It's ridiculous that the character should be forced into such cirumstances when in "real" Star Wars there are no restrictions other than the Jedi's own strength with the force or weakness of the mind. And even these can be changed with discipline.

 

Anyway, I've rambled enough. I think I might have gotten my point across but if anyone has any questions feel free to PM me or post a message here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like to see the movie style ranks (Padawan, Knight, Master) as well. There should be certain skills that you would have that would determine if you were more of a saber fighter, or force user, but not locked in from the start. They should be skill boxes you have to choose as you level up.

 

I like your idea of starting off as a Padawan . You should be seperated from your master early on. He gives you a mission before he dies, to find Revan (or whatever the plot happens to be). Somewhere along the line you may meet up with another Jedi Master who promotes you to Knight after hearing of your acomplishments, but he can't go with you on your journey. You when you reach the end of the game, perhaps Revan (if you found him) could promote you to Master, before you went out to finish the game.

[dewaybe2678]

you know..i was really thinking about how the third game would unfold if it ever came out and i was hoping that Obsidian would take on kotor 3 and really have some time to develop it.It's been announced here at that "Obsidian's Third Game" thread that Obsidian is working on a third project that doesn't have the Bioware liscence (they didnt mention anything about a LA liscence) and also that the project is NOT a sequel.....umm...let me try and stay calm...that not only rules out kotor 3...but its pretty safe to say Bioware is too busy with a possible first person shooter, maybe Jade Empire 2 and that DA game for the PC.. and it seems LA laid off the development team responsible for starting the production of KOTOR 3...i mean am i the only one who is kind of upset the game might not even be announced this year at E3? I don't wanna pick a fight or anything, just adding this to the table...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

that layoff article was published last year i remember reading it last year. just when i think i oct or nov. and that romur bout e3 came out in jan.

[dewaybe2678]

I'm just going to reiterate what I posted earlier...

 

I would like to see the forced classes (eg. Jedi Guardian, Jedi Sentinel, Jedi Consular) go out the window. I want there to be an implimentation of the orginal (movie) StarWars classes (eg. Jedi Padawan, Jedi Knight, Jedi Master.)

 

I fell that K3 should start with a new character who has begun his training as a Jedi Padawan in the revived Jedi Order on Coruscant.

 

The revived Jedi Order should have the new Jedi High Council consist of Bastila, Mical, Briana, and possibly Jolee being four of the twelve Jedi Master. Briana would be the new Jedi Historian (assuming Atris's role) very much like Yaddle in Episode I's High Council and Jocasta Nu before her. I would also love to see a Rakatan Jedi Master on this new Council. I mean, when you left them in K1 they were experimenting with reintroducing midi-chlorians back into their DNA. They also want to make peace with the galaxy for the crimes of their ancestors. What bettrer way to pay the galaxy back then by becoming a Jedi.

 

I would like for the game to start with you being a level 1 Jedi Padawan. Possibly have a member of the Council as your master. Maybe not. Anyway, when you reach level 15 you automatically become a Jedi Knight with new feats, skills, and force powers open to you; and you no longer have your master in your party (if he/she is in your party anyway) because there is no more use for him/her. Also, at level15 you could also select your very own Jedi Padawan (giving you a side-quest depending on their gender.) Once your character reaches level30 (your Padawan reaching level15, you having successfully trained him/her to Knighthood) you become a Jedi Master; with the most advanced feats, skills, and force powers open to you. This would be a perfect way to get rid of the forced classes that do not even exist in the movies. For example, Barris Ofee was a Padawan. When she reached Knighthood, sure she took on the position of a Jedi Healer, but she is still a Jedi Knight (plain and simple) reguardless. And had she lived to train a Padawan who succeeded in his/her trials and became a Knight, then she would have likewise been ordained a Jedi Master. Simple as that.

 

Just take away the forced classes and turn their (until now) restricted feats and make them universal. Sure you wont be able to get them all but atleast you will be able to get the better feats of all classes and not be stuck with a Jedi Master who can't even hold his lightsaber straight, or a Jedi Weapon Master who can't stun a frog much less shock a Sith like in K2. It's ridiculous that the character should be forced into such cirumstances when in "real" Star Wars there are no restrictions other than the Jedi's own strength with the force or weakness of the mind. And even these can be changed with discipline.

 

Anyway, I've rambled enough. I think I might have gotten my point across but if anyone has any questions feel free to PM me or post a message here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like to see the movie style ranks (Padawan, Knight, Master) as well. There should be certain skills that you would have that would determine if you were more of a saber fighter, or force user, but not locked in from the start. They should be skill boxes you have to choose as you level up.

 

I like your idea of starting off as a Padawan . You should be seperated from your master early on. He gives you a mission before he dies, to find Revan (or whatever the plot happens to be). Somewhere along the line you may meet up with another Jedi Master who promotes you to Knight after hearing of your acomplishments, but he can't go with you on your journey. You when you reach the end of the game, perhaps Revan (if you found him) could promote you to Master, before you went out to finish the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i don't think in kotor 3 there will time for a council. the galaxy is going to heck in a handbasket. that why we'll probably be exile/revan. i don't think there time for anymore training padawans. to borrow a line from the U.S. Marines It's do or die. oh for all we know high council is still intact. and kotor is 4000 years earlier then sw:movies. the classrs may have been different then. personally i like them. and i seriously they will throw them out the window.

[Saraya]

First of all I have to admit that I haven

[mastah vandah]

you know..i was really thinking about how the third game would unfold if it ever came out and i was hoping that Obsidian would take on kotor 3 and really have some time to develop it.It's been announced here at that "Obsidian's Third Game" thread that Obsidian is working on a third project that doesn't have the Bioware liscence (they didnt mention anything about a LA liscence) and also that the project is NOT a sequel.....umm...let me try and stay calm...that not only rules out kotor 3...but its pretty safe to say Bioware is too busy with a possible first person shooter, maybe Jade Empire 2 and that DA game for the PC.. and it seems LA laid off the development team responsible for starting the production of KOTOR 3...i mean am i the only one who is kind of upset the game might not even be announced this year at E3? I don't wanna pick a fight or anything, just adding this to the table...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

that layoff article was published last year i remember reading it last year. just when i think i oct or nov. and that romur bout e3 came out in jan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ohh. ok then, thanks for pointing that out! hopefully a video or something will be shown at E3...

[dewaybe2678]

you know..i was really thinking about how the third game would unfold if it ever came out and i was hoping that Obsidian would take on kotor 3 and really have some time to develop it.It's been announced here at that "Obsidian's Third Game" thread that Obsidian is working on a third project that doesn't have the Bioware liscence (they didnt mention anything about a LA liscence) and also that the project is NOT a sequel.....umm...let me try and stay calm...that not only rules out kotor 3...but its pretty safe to say Bioware is too busy with a possible first person shooter, maybe Jade Empire 2 and that DA game for the PC.. and it seems LA laid off the development team responsible for starting the production of KOTOR 3...i mean am i the only one who is kind of upset the game might not even be announced this year at E3? I don't wanna pick a fight or anything, just adding this to the table...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

that layoff article was published last year i remember reading it last year. just when i think i oct or nov. and that romur bout e3 came out in jan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ohh. ok then, thanks for pointing that out! hopefully a video or something will be shown at E3...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i have admit that that layoff article is older then i thought it was posted 08/13/04.

[Felix]

What about two stories? In the beggining you choose Revan or the Exile, and start the game has the character you choosed. However, a menu will come to recreate both characters (Select their appearence). And when I mean two stories is REALLY two stories, not the same game but with the possibility to choose one character or another.

 

Then at the last quarter of the game (If it doesnt get rushed... ha ha.. no? . make the Exile and Revan stories meet and continue as one (story), I hope you understand what I meant)

[streeniv]

i think your character shouldnt have to be a jedi or sith. if you ever read the captions that go along w/ some of the robes you get, you get some background about the force sensitives who wear them. these guys dont even belong to the jedi order (atleast i dont think they do). there's the Matukai, Baran Do, Gray Jedi, Jal Shey, and Zeison Sha. kreia was neutral for most of the game and so was jolee in kotor 1. your character should be able to choose. that'd be awesome if you could choose to be one of these classes.

 

Matukai - combat-based and more specifically hand-to-hand combat. they're the only ones who can unlock alot more unarmed combat feats and corresponding jedi powers.

 

Baran Do - these guys are supposed to be patient, wise and self relient. (btw, you should really gain xp for passing by enemies unnoticed w/ stealth and talking your way out of situations, esp for ls characters)

 

Gray Jedi - these guys would be like mercenaries or bountyhunters. working for themselves and gaining extra combat feats and stealth feats or something.

 

Jal Shey - these guys are supposed to be intellectual so they'd be your skills people.

 

Zeison Sha - these guys would be combat-based too but not specifically hand-to-hand.

 

i guess i would just try to put the idea out there.

[dewaybe2678]

What about two stories? In the beggining you choose Revan or the Exile, and start the game has the character you choosed. However, a menu will come to recreate both characters (Select their appearence). And when I mean two stories is REALLY two stories, not the same game but with the possibility to choose one character or another.

 

Then at the last quarter of the game (If it doesnt get rushed... ha ha.. no? . make the Exile and Revan stories meet and continue as one (story), I hope you understand what I meant)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i think you will find a few people agree with that i for one do...

[streeniv]

i liked the new robes in kotor 2 but they should have left the ones from kotor 1 in too, you know, the ones w/ just the legs and torso part. in the next one they should def have a lot more variety and have more elaborate outfits too. like the star forge robes, those were awesome, but make them accessible earlier in the game, not at the end. they have to do something w/ the armor too. its pretty much all the same w/ just different colors. same w/ the robes. all i saw was the same robe w/ either brown and white, black and gray, green (matukai), or gray. def need more jedi outfits in general, not just robes. they should have more jedi armor or even just casual jedi outfits or something. they shoud try to be really original too. like it would be awesome if your character could find something like the outfit komari vosa had in Bounty Hunter, or something like luke skywalker's plain black outfit. i like the idea of capes too. i think that should be a seperate block tho. so you can customize more, like have mandalorian armor with a black cape or something.

[streeniv]

your character should be able to construct a unique lightsaber hilt which exemplifies their fighting style. the hilt should not only add bonuses to certain attrributes or rolls but it should also be activated in a different way and maybe the character gains special feats based upon the hilt.

 

curved hilt (dooku) - this should add big bonuses to attack, damage and dexterity but a penalties to blaster bolt deflection. and if you use one in each hand there should either be no penalty or even a bonus due to fast style. the attacking should be completely different from any other style with a lot of stabs and quick cuts and the way your character guards themselves w/ the lightsaber from other melee attacks should be different.

 

silver jedi lightsaber (obi-wan)- this one is pretty well balanced. bonuses to attack and damage when fighting non-lightsaber wielding enemies and a big bonus to blaster bolt deflection. at a major disadvantage tho when fighting an opponent w/ a curved hilt. they'll have to make up for it by using the force in combat. penalties are added when wielding one in each hand. the attacking should involve a lot of spinning and swings to keep your opponent on the defense but leaves you open to attack as well.

 

black sith lightsaber (vader's) - this adds big bonuses to damage, attack and strength but penalties to dexterity, defense and blaster bolt deflection. this one counters the curved hilt by using raw strength and power to smash through opponents but leaves them vulnerable at times.

 

in jedi academy there was a lightsaber hilt that was thin on both ends but got wider in the middle... maybe this one could add big bonuses to dexterity and defense and blaster bolt deflection b/c its smaller and easier to manuever w/ but penalties to strength and ability to hit. if there is one in each hand, bonus to hit but more of a penalty to strength.

 

just an idea...

[Saberist]

what would make the next kotor awesome would be to scarp the turn based fighting and put in real-time fighting like in jedi knight 2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Actually both JKO and JKA were among my Top Disappointments in terms of using a 'just like KOTOR' _scripted_ combat systems. At least JK (with the Saber-X mods especially) gave you true control of the blade.

 

By the button you chose to attack with and the direction of step as you moved.

 

This is actually highly accurate in terms of _footwork_ (facing, spacing and pacing) controlling more of the fight than most novices would like to admit. It's just clumsy when you try to maintain body orientation with (often opposed) attack styles in any kind of fluid continuum of cuts.

 

I also find it /hilarious/ that all these people 'clog up' the fight and while you are blade locked with one, the other guy has essentially free rights to lop off your head and yet... does not.

 

IMO, what needs to happen is to have a programmable -KATA- system so that you learn how to kill with a 'Vitruvian Man' type setup for individual strokes and then go to several Jedi Masters to link those strokes into patterns.

 

From there, a 'statistical' system could be really workable. Just on the basis of "I have 10 strokes. He has 4. His buddy has 6. If I attack with X Kata, I can kill him in 5 strokes. If I attack him in Y Kata, I can _break his pattern_ (AI) in /two/.

 

If you let the computer play things out, you will beat opponent A but not B, ending up 'tied' (blade lock) or dead for the next melee round. BUT if you choose the right kata, _manually_, then you can beat Opponent 1 in two cuts AND have 8 left for Opponent 2. At which point letting the AI handle things lets you sit back and enjoy the popcorn moment.

 

Of course when there's 4-6 bad guys (or whatever it is that Kotor's engine will support for upper engagement limit), things get a little more 'challenging'.

 

The key then being a _limited_ mouse freeze and view slew system in which the player has only so long to look around and 'choose a target' as a function of Force Sliding into a combat, beating his initial opponent, SNAP!, like that. And by doing so, make the /rest/ of the enemy attack 'through each other' (i.e. by ranks so that only a few can get their weapons pointed at you at any one time.)

 

At which point the player can REALLY start to become a blade dancer seeing his enemies rythms. And breaking them. En masse.

 

And it's truly SIMPLE too!

 

QWE

ASD

ZXC

 

Cut strokes you monkey-see, monkey-do on a Jedi training dojo's mats with a Master as your teacher. Back and forth (up and down the mats), and the closer your Simon type pattern press is to perfect, the more cuts you learn at that particular 'level up'.

 

Q to C is a diagonal cut from the opponents right shoulder to his left knee. D to A is a recover up to his left ribs and across his belly button. Etc. etc.

 

1-0 then become your 'preprogrammed' Kata selections based on a certain number of strokes available per achieved level up (from a start of say 4 for a Novice and going towards 20-30 for a Master).

 

And your mouse control 'freeze time' (right) and 'designate/reject target' (left+center) as well as the 'clairvoyant' camera slew around your character's shoulders (you could theoretically attack someone _behind you_ with a leaping reversal in a fantastic 'cinematic' approach.).

 

Of course if you go this route then two other things MUST happen:

 

1. Everybody must be an accomplished Jedi (close to Yoda's level of mastery to be honest) from the very start of the game. I despise RPG's which try to mix D&D and Techno and in the KOTOR universe, this means fighting with swords for at least 40% of the initial game and then graduating up to a saber after the 'feel' of the gameplay is totally medieval-hosed. Jedi + Saber + Force must not be separated nor 'learned, gradually'. Because a Padawan that couldn't take care of himself right from the start is too weak to survive against a host of gunners who have technology on their side.

 

2. Sabers MUST be 'first hit lethal'. Or at least incapacitating. No more Cortosis or Shielding balloney (any sign of them in the OT? NO!?). I don't mind blaster-proofed armor because that is something which could realistically swing back and forth in terms of measure and countermeasure vs. energy intensities. But the saber's inherent '6ft weakness' in terms of instantaneous reach must be compensated for by it's '100 times more lethal' contact lethality. REAL WEAPONS have REAL CONSEQUENCES. And so you must be willing to follow the (simple) rules of combat to win. Or you _will_ lose. And have to restart from a fixed auto-save point a lot further back along the adventure path.

 

 

Saberist Out.

[Saberist]

>>

I would like for the game to start with you being a level 1 Jedi Padawan. Possibly have a member of the Council as your master. Maybe not. Anyway, when you reach level 15 you automatically become a Jedi Knight with new feats, skills, and force powers open to you; and you no longer have your master in your party (if he/she is in your party anyway) because there is no more use for him/her. Also, at level15 you could also select your very own Jedi Padawan (giving you a side-quest depending on their gender.) Once your character reaches level30 (your Padawan reaching level15, you having successfully trained him/her to Knighthood) you become a Jedi Master; with the most advanced feats, skills, and force powers open to you. This would be a perfect way to get rid of the forced classes that do not even exist in the movies. For example, Barris Ofee was a Padawan. When she reached Knighthood, sure she took on the position of a Jedi Healer, but she is still a Jedi Knight (plain and simple) reguardless. And had she lived to train a Padawan who succeeded in his/her trials and became a Knight, then she would have likewise been ordained a Jedi Master. Simple as that.

>>

 

Actually, IMO, you need to 'make it even simpler'. In that:

 

1. These are JEDI so their trials to level up should involve at least as much FORCE based 'puzzles/challenges' as they do finding X or breaking the code to get to Y.

 

In this, I think they should return to the original P&P rules by which you had something like Perceive, Affect and Alter. And it was by mixing these three 'senses of the universal flow' that you actually achieved the various in-game effects.

 

As an example: to stop a sabotaged (pressure mine on hull over engine compartment) ship from tumbling back out of the sky as it tries to make orbit, a Jedi might have to 'step outside himself' (and the wildly somersaulting innards of the vessel) and to envision it's hull form. And then 'nudge here and there' to stabilize it's fall. And then wrap it in a gravimetric field shift to lighten it sufficient to 'glide' rather than fall to a splatter.

 

Succeed and you LIVE. By living, The Force (not some entirely too bureaucratic mentor or Council) sees that you deserve to have added power and understanding of it's will.

 

Size matters not. But envisioning the THREE separate patterns (think something like a matching a screensaver 'swirlie') is no easy task. Because you are holding them together, ALL AT ONCE.

 

If your basic Jedi Powers can be broken down into Telepathy (read/adjust other peoples intentions and emotions and eventually 'thoughts'), Clairvoyance (see beyond line of sight), Precognition (see/sense events before they occur), Telekinesis (accelerate molecular elements differentially) and Levitation (alter local gravity) then use the PAA rules to -work- within those limits.

 

Rather than try to invent wild new powers as graphical displays for every game. Powers which are ONLY relevant to combat or 'cinematography' (nice movie, no interactive story). Not to _what it is_ to be a Jedi.

 

2. Similarly, once you get to the point where you are able to maintain several patterns in your head at once, you should be able to mix and match from among 'standing' Force Protections that allow you to (for instance) walk into a fight, calmly.

 

Among these might be Absorb/Redirect/Barrier. So that a little slow troll like Yoda wouldn't /have to/ fight against all blaster bolts. But could waddle his way into a fight. And the warping of The Force around him would literally 'remove from this reality' those things which could hurt him.

 

In this, KOTOR really _needs_ to improve. Because the ability to survive a fight is often a function of 'combattive intent' as a function of preparation before (armor, shields, drugs) and none of these things reflects the notion that Jedi 'just are'.

 

Ready BECAUSE they are Relaxed.

 

Naturally at peace with the flow of things. Inwardly focussed to have a greater outward sense of what is really happening etc. etc.

 

One other thing. As others have suggested, rather than be dependent on slaughter for XP, you should get massive increases for using your Force Powers 'the way the _situational ethic_ intended'. The Force sets the moment. How you respond to it is what makes you special and uniquely suited to fulfilling it's will through your expression.

 

There is no random chance only chosen outcomes.

 

Specific to this, a JEDI story should end with an expression of THE FORCE not combat perse.

 

There is an old Chinese morality tale: If a man breaks into the Forbidden City and steals one of the Emperor's goldfish (a capital offense) from his outdoor water gardens and then is caught trying to escape and so swallows the goldfish, losing his profit as well as the proof that he stole, what should the Emperor do when the guards bring the thief before him?

 

A. Order the man killed and his head hung from the walls as an example.

B. Kill the man with torture because those goldfish were precious.

C. Wait a week and let the man go.

 

If you choose C you choose 'The Emperors Gift'.

 

Because, with all your wealth, you can buy another fish. While, without the living proof, the thief has only another fish tale. And because even if he is believed, it will only be a case of showing the world that MERCY is a choice that the _truly powerful_ can afford.

 

Only the fearful need to 'fight first'. Because that is the only way that they can survive a given situation that they were dumb enough to tumble into and they know it. A Jedi Master doesn't fear. Because he can literally warp fate to 'blend around himself' those threats which he perceives before they become dangerous. And so render under to those who would hurt him, not the other cheek. But _THE EMPEROR'S GIFT_.

 

Lucas has no clue how to write stories. His is entertainment at a banal teenage adrenal-hyped level. But just imagine if you will...

 

Episode II Clone Battle: Yoda steps off the spaceship and sees the conflict on Geonosis' plain raging before him. And rather than order all guns to fire on a starship, bringing it back to earth with a seismic effect like unto a Rictor 9 earthquake (driving the shattered femurs of ALL infantry up through their pelvis').

 

He simply reaches into himself and whispers to all present: "Cease."

 

And the battlefield falls quiet. Because THAT is //Power//. And The Way of the Jedi is to mediate disaster not to exacerbate it.

 

And Dooku sees this, as he attempts to flee, in fear of what The Light can really do if called to it.

 

Which brings me to my last 'potent quotable' for the day:

 

Skill is the ability to do one thing, really well.

Power is the ability to do many things, with skill.

Grace is the ability to know when and where to be to accomplish those actions which most need accomplishing, whether by power or skill.

 

I have yet to see a truly Powerful Jedi in any of the Kotor games or indeed the SWU as a whole. I have NEVER seen a Graceful one.

 

Such is where KOTOR 3 should be headed.

 

 

Saberist Out.

[dewaybe2678]

>>

I would like for the game to start with you being a level 1 Jedi Padawan. Possibly have a member of the Council as your master. Maybe not. Anyway, when you reach level 15 you automatically become a Jedi Knight with new feats, skills, and force powers open to you; and you no longer have your master in your party (if he/she is in your party anyway) because there is no more use for him/her. Also, at level15 you could also select your very own Jedi Padawan (giving you a side-quest depending on their gender.) Once your character reaches level30 (your Padawan reaching level15, you having successfully trained him/her to Knighthood) you become a Jedi Master; with the most advanced feats, skills, and force powers open to you. This would be a perfect way to get rid of the forced classes that do not even exist in the movies. For example, Barris Ofee was a Padawan. When she reached Knighthood, sure she took on the position of a Jedi Healer, but she is still a Jedi Knight (plain and simple) reguardless. And had she lived to train a Padawan who succeeded in his/her trials and became a Knight, then she would have likewise been ordained a Jedi Master. Simple as that.

>>

 

Actually, IMO, you need to 'make it even simpler'.  In that:

 

1.  These are JEDI so their trials to level up should involve at least as much FORCE based 'puzzles/challenges' as they do finding X or breaking the code to get to Y.

 

In this, I think they should return to the original P&P rules by which you had something like Perceive, Affect and Alter.  And it was by mixing these three 'senses of the universal flow' that you actually achieved the various in-game effects.

 

As an example: to stop a sabotaged (pressure mine on hull over engine compartment) ship from tumbling back out of the sky as it tries to make orbit, a Jedi might have to 'step outside himself' (and the wildly somersaulting innards of the vessel) and to envision it's hull form.  And then 'nudge here and there' to stabilize it's fall.  And then wrap it in a gravimetric field shift to lighten it sufficient to 'glide' rather than fall to a splatter.

 

Succeed and you LIVE.  By living, The Force (not some entirely too bureaucratic mentor or Council) sees that you deserve to have added power and understanding of it's will.

 

Size matters not.  But envisioning the THREE separate patterns (think something like a matching a screensaver 'swirlie') is no easy task.  Because you are holding them together, ALL AT ONCE.

 

If your basic Jedi Powers can be broken down into Telepathy (read/adjust other peoples intentions and emotions and eventually 'thoughts'), Clairvoyance (see beyond line of sight), Precognition (see/sense events before they occur), Telekinesis (accelerate molecular elements differentially) and Levitation (alter local gravity) then use the PAA rules to -work- within those limits.

 

Rather than try to invent wild new powers as graphical displays for every game.  Powers which are ONLY relevant to combat or 'cinematography' (nice movie, no interactive story).  Not to _what it is_ to be a Jedi.

 

2.  Similarly, once you get to the point where you are able to maintain several patterns in your head at once, you should be able to mix and match from among 'standing' Force Protections that allow you to (for instance) walk into a fight, calmly.

 

Among these might be Absorb/Redirect/Barrier.  So that a little slow troll like Yoda wouldn't /have to/ fight against all blaster bolts.  But could waddle his way into a fight.  And the warping of The Force around him would literally 'remove from this reality' those things which could hurt him.

 

In this, KOTOR really _needs_ to improve.  Because the ability to survive a fight is often a function of 'combattive intent' as a function of preparation before (armor, shields, drugs) and none of these things reflects the notion that Jedi 'just are'. 

 

Ready BECAUSE they are Relaxed.

 

Naturally at peace with the flow of things.  Inwardly focussed to have a greater outward sense of what is really happening etc. etc.

 

One other thing.  As others have suggested, rather than be dependent on slaughter for XP, you should get massive increases for using your Force Powers 'the way the _situational ethic_ intended'.  The Force sets the moment.  How you respond to it is what makes you special and uniquely suited to fulfilling it's will through your expression.

 

There is no random chance only chosen outcomes.

 

Specific to this, a JEDI story should end with an expression of THE FORCE not combat perse.

 

There is an old Chinese morality tale:  If a man breaks into the Forbidden City and steals one of the Emperor's goldfish (a capital offense) from his outdoor water gardens and then is caught trying to escape and so swallows the goldfish, losing his profit as well as the proof that he stole, what should the Emperor do when the guards bring the thief before him?

 

A.  Order the man killed and his head hung from the walls as an example.

B.  Kill the man with torture because those goldfish were precious.

C.  Wait a week and let the man go.

 

If you choose C you choose 'The Emperors Gift'.

 

Because, with all your wealth, you can buy another fish.  While, without the living proof, the thief has only another fish tale.  And because even if he is believed, it will only be a case of showing the world that MERCY is a choice that the _truly powerful_ can afford.

 

Only the fearful need to 'fight first'.  Because that is the only way that they can survive a given situation that they were dumb enough to tumble into and they know it.  A Jedi Master doesn't fear.  Because he can literally warp fate to 'blend around himself' those threats which he perceives before they become dangerous.  And so render under to those who would hurt him, not the other cheek.  But _THE EMPEROR'S GIFT_.

 

Lucas has no clue how to write stories.  His is entertainment at a banal teenage adrenal-hyped level.  But just imagine if you will...

 

Episode II Clone Battle:  Yoda steps off the spaceship and sees the conflict on Geonosis' plain raging before him.  And rather than order all guns to fire on a starship, bringing it back to earth with a seismic effect like unto a Rictor 9 earthquake (driving the shattered femurs of ALL infantry up through their pelvis'). 

 

He simply reaches into himself and whispers to all present:  "Cease."

 

And the battlefield falls quiet.  Because THAT is //Power//.  And The Way of the Jedi is to mediate disaster not to exacerbate it.

 

And Dooku sees this, as he attempts to flee, in fear of what The Light can really do if called to it.

 

Which brings me to my last 'potent quotable' for the day:

 

Skill is the ability to do one thing, really well.

Power is the ability to do many things, with skill.

Grace is the ability to know when and where to be to accomplish those actions which most need accomplishing, whether by power or skill.

 

I have yet to see a truly Powerful Jedi in any of the Kotor games or indeed the SWU as a whole.  I have NEVER seen a Graceful one.

 

Such is where KOTOR 3 should be headed.

 

 

Saberist Out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

the council is gone. the jedi are nearly wiped out. kotor 3 is going a epic ending not a new beginning.

[Plano Skywalker]

It has been said that Obsidian is working on a project that is not a sequel and not a Bioware license. I wonder if they are working on something that uses the new Episode III engine from The Collective. And maybe it is a SW RPG but just not KOTOR III.

 

Obviously, I have not played a game with that engine yet but it looks like it is going to be really good. I think Obsidian should look into licensing that engine so they can focus on the story. KOTOR III's story needs to be really tight.

[bubblyofart]

This is a quote from PCZONE:

 

It's been overstated by press and publisher alike that Sith Lords is KOTOR's The Empire Strikes Back. They said the same thing about Attack Of The Clones too; the prequel sequel that was supposed to lead us bleakly into Episode III. In truth, Spaceballs had darker moments. Here though, the comparison between game and film is apt, for not only is Sith Lords the chronological centrepiece for a planned KOTOR trilogy...

 

Usually their right about stuff like this, in fact I agree with their opinion that this game is the chronological centrepiece for this trilogy. Another quote from them is:

 

It's not quite up to the standard of Empire Strikes Back perhaps, but it's still certainly the second best middle act to grace any Star Wars trilogy. Let's just hope that the next episode can at least equal The Return Of The Jedi...

 

At the end of the day though I think its only Obsidian who can tell us whether they truely planned The Sith Lords as the centrepiece of the trilogy. So Obisidan did ya???

[Plano Skywalker]

I also think it would be good to have customizable hilts for the lightsaber. It is not really a big issue for me but it would be cool and it is an idea that many have expressed. They would be smart to include that in the next installment.

[Jedi Master Dakari]

Oh, and people are forgetting...

 

Master Vandar cannot make any appearance in K3 simply for the fact of the matter that he is DEAD. (Unless he appears, in the manner others think Kreia will, as a Force Ghost. And for that matter, Kreia HATED the Force - and wished to kill it - so I don't think she became one with it. To say the least.)

 

If you chose that Revan returned to the path of the Light Side, then Master Vandar died with the last Jedi Council on Katarr.

 

If you chose that Revan submitted to the Dark Side again, then Master Vandar obviously died in the Republic's assault on the Star Forge.

 

Please pay a little more attention, people.

[Plano Skywalker]

Oh, and people are forgetting...

 

Master Vandar cannot make any appearance in K3 simply for the fact of the matter that he is DEAD. (Unless he appears, in the manner others think Kreia will, as a Force Ghost. And for that matter, Kreia HATED the Force - and wished to kill it - so I don't think she became one with it. To say the least.)

 

If you chose that Revan returned to the path of the Light Side, then Master Vandar died with the last Jedi Council on Katarr.

 

If you chose that Revan submitted to the Dark Side again, then Master Vandar obviously died in the Republic's assault on the Star Forge.

 

Please pay a little more attention, people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I actually would prefer to see a Vandar force ghost over a Kreia force ghost because I would trust him alot more.

 

As far as having enough masters around to have a council, that would really not be as much of a logistical problem as you might think. You could have:

 

 

Bastila

Atris

Jolee

Bao-Dur

Brianna (Handmaiden)

Mical (the Disciple....he could be the Jedi historian)

Atton (probably not a great idea given his gritty past)

Mira (probably not a great idea given her gritty past)

Visas (now that would be interesting!)

 

 

 

also, the two Twilek masters from KOTOR I (even if they were believed to have died, yes) and anyone else who may still be in hiding.

 

The reason you will probably not see a Jedi council at the beginning of KOTOR III has nothing to do with available candidates...it has to do with the story. Rebuilding the Jedi Order would be a good subplot for the PC in the next game.

[dewaybe2678]

Oh, and people are forgetting...

 

Master Vandar cannot make any appearance in K3 simply for the fact of the matter that he is DEAD. (Unless he appears, in the manner others think Kreia will, as a Force Ghost. And for that matter, Kreia HATED the Force - and wished to kill it - so I don't think she became one with it. To say the least.)

 

If you chose that Revan returned to the path of the Light Side, then Master Vandar died with the last Jedi Council on Katarr.

 

If you chose that Revan submitted to the Dark Side again, then Master Vandar obviously died in the Republic's assault on the Star Forge.

 

Please pay a little more attention, people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

thank you thank you...

 

now can you answer this for me. cause i'm curious as what you think can bastila and carth be party members in k3? and if possible to be revan again?