Women in Kotor 2

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

So Kreia doesn't make a **** joke to female characters, and Mira savedsHanharr's life, and Leia after being forced into sexual slavery manages to kill a giant sedentary slug, and therefore YAY SEXISM EVERYWHERE IS SOLVED.

 

Lunchtime before I tear all my hair out.

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The game is reflecting the SW universe and whether people like it or not all of these things are part of that. It's not invented or made up stuff(not by Obsidian at least).

[Aurora]

The original SW movies came out in the late 70s-early 80s. There has been a lot that's changed in their universe since then. I can accept a certain amount of things as "classic," but the idea that it's somehow logical and righteous pains me. Not to mention that Obsidian messed around with a fair amount of other things from the setting.

 

But again, whatever, this isn't my fight.

[Wild Storm]

How's that obnoxious? It's the truth. That's exactly what she is.

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The language used and the responses are very gender-specific. I cannot imagine people calling Palpatine such names - though that's in part 'cause he's a much less interesting character than Kreia.

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Whos worse? Palpatine or Kreia? Obviously Palpatine. And the only reason why Palpatine can't be called a manipulative witch is because, in the Prequels, nobody has a clue, and in the Original Trilogy ( ) he was the leader of an Empire which nobody dared to oppose. And the fact that there was no place to call him one....

[SteveThaiBinh]

I'm not sure that Leia or Padme stand out as independent women. Although attempts were made by the scriptwriters (scriptdoctors?) to make them so, their function in the movies was to be protected or rescued by the (male) protagonists.

[Volourn]

I should say thoguh that big slugs being turned on by sex human females is pretty sad...

 

Still, Kreia deserves every derogatory name thrown at her and not because she's a woman either. I never got the impression in the game that the characetrs hated her BECAUSE she was a woman; but hated her because she was scum.

[Ashe]

The language used and the responses are very gender-specific. I cannot imagine people calling Palpatine such names - though that's in part 'cause he's a much less interesting character than Kreia.

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I dunnow. Palpy's a devious barsteward, manipulative old buzzard, call him what you will.

 

Question is, people call yoda things like "little green wrinkly frog." Are we now speciesist. too?

 

I still maintain with this topic that there are no hangups but the ones you bring with you, like the dark side cave on dagobah.

[LdyShayna]

And... y'know, even though it wasn't supposed to be *that* kind of love, "I killed her because I loved her" is one of the top two most disturbing lines uttered by a romanceable guy in a game. Good Lord. But hey, Mira's idea of romance is vaguely psychotic too, so I guess it's, uh, fair.

 

[

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Yeah, this was creepy. I mean, I thought it was even more disturbing then finding out he hunted and tortured Jedi, in a way, because this is supposedly the turning point where he turned away from the Sith. My reaction was? "Huh? Wha? Ewww."

 

I do wish there had been more of a chance if you took him Light Side Jedi to help him face this past and find some peace within himself. It was painful to see him hate himself so much.

 

Errr...not that this is on topic or anything. Sorries.

[Rosbjerg]

but no none has a problem with men being portrayed just as bad? isn't that bordering hypocrisy? women in western countries have achieved equality!!

I'm getting so tired of this feminine-equal-rights-battle, since it's only a problem when womens rights are being offended .. it's like racims in my country, it has even become offensive to adress people as 'immigrants' or in their nationality (like English/Turks what-ever) instead of "new danish" .. I just hate hypocrisy!!

[Laozi]

The depiction of women (particularly Handmaiden) was raised in the General Discussion forum.  I wanted to post this comment, but as it contains spoilers, I put it here instead.

 

The women of Kotor 2 are stereotyped.  It's not deeply offensive (to me), just a bit disappointing.

 

The handmaiden's naked fighting is silly.  Can you imagine a male character doing the same?  Like, say, in the Mandalorians' battle circle?  They weren't naked.  And don't say it's because in the Mandalorians' culture they wear armour.  It's the developers' decision to include clothed males and naked females that shows gender descrimination.

 

Visas was by far the more worrying case.  A character is shown as a broken wreck, without any will or sense of self, and of course she's female.  And utterly devoted to a male master (I assume Darth Nihilus is male, although correct me if I'm wrong).  And then willing to surrender herself sexually to the male Exile, perhaps the female Exile too.

 

Kreia is a manipulative witch, lying and cheating from the shadows.  And twice we see her defeated by Darth Sion in open combat.  This suggests that males are dominant, women are subordinated, and can only exercise power through manipulation.  Again, a clear gender stereotype.  And frigid of course, as all powerful women are.  I do love the way the voice actress says 'indignities', though.

 

This kind of thing is unavoidable when almost all game developers, and a clear majority of players, are male.  Obsidian aren't being nasty or deliberately discriminatory, just careless.  And the problem is very widespread (the Star Wars films are at least as bad, as is most of the output of Hollywood).

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It seems like to be they did a pretty good job of portraying the three types of women :D

[SteveThaiBinh]

And... y'know, even though it wasn't supposed to be *that* kind of love, "I killed her because I loved her" is one of the top two most disturbing lines uttered by a romanceable guy in a game. Good Lord. But hey, Mira's idea of romance is vaguely psychotic too, so I guess it's, uh, fair.

 

[

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Yeah, this was creepy. I mean, I thought it was even more disturbing then finding out he hunted and tortured Jedi, in a way, because this is supposedly the turning point where he turned away from the Sith. My reaction was? "Huh? Wha? Ewww."

 

I do wish there had been more of a chance if you took him Light Side Jedi to help him face this past and find some peace within himself. It was painful to see him hate himself so much.

 

Errr...not that this is on topic or anything. Sorries.

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"I killed her because I loved her." What could be wrong with that? No mysogyny that I can see.

 

It's great that a computer game can have complex and mature themes, and that it doesn't throw 'correct' morality in your face. But if a game is going to raise these things, they need to be addressed a bit more thoroughly.

 

One thing that bothered me was Kreia's invasion into Atton's mind to uncover his secret. Isn't this a form of rape?

[ISG1]

There you have it.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"One thing that bothered me was Kreia's invasion into Atton's mind to uncover his secret. Isn't this a form of rape?"

 

No?

[ISG1]

"One thing that bothered me was Kreia's invasion into Atton's mind to uncover his secret. Isn't this a form of rape?"

 

No?

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Why not?

 

A person is violated in a brutal fashion.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Why not?

 

A person is violated in a brutal fashion."

 

I think beating up a person would fall under that, too. I don't call that rape, do you?

[SteveThaiBinh]

If someone bashed their way into your mind and pulled up the most repressed, traumatic experience of your life, and then dangled it in front of you, how chipper would you be feeling five minutes later?

 

It's the sense of intimate violation that makes it rape, although being beaten up isn't pleasant either.

[ISG1]

I think this is just as much rape as anything, just in a different fashion than usual, but that doesn't make it non-rape.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"If someone bashed their way into your mind and pulled up the most repressed, traumatic experience of your life, and then dangled it in front of you, how chipper would you be feeling five minutes later?"

 

I don't really know. How's that raping, though?

 

"It's the sense of intimate violation that makes it rape, although being beaten up isn't pleasant either."

 

You've got a pretty broad defination for rape. I like specifics.

[Suzie]

women in western countries have achieved equality!!

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Um... what the hell?

 

No, seriously. Run that past me again.

 

women in western countries have achieved equality!!

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...Riiight.

 

 

And what do you say to every woman in the west who's ever been raped? Assaulted? Murdered? And had the blame assigned to her and her alone?

 

To every woman who's ever been dubbed a **** for enjoying her sexuality? To every woman who doesn't have her health concerns taken seriously because she's "just a nagging woman"? To every woman who has starved herself, injected herself with poison, had bags of sillicone implanted and binged and purged and bleached and shaved and waxed and STILL been told she fails to measure up to standards of beauty?

 

To every woman who was criticised for wearing skirts that were "too short" and tops that were "too low" and clothing that was "too revealing" and been told she DESERVES to be raped? To every woman who has been passed over for promotion purely because of her gender? To every woman who is frigid because she won't sleep with a man and a **** because she will? To every woman who's been denied emergency contraception because of a rape, because of a broken condom, because of the "religous" convictions of the pharamcist? To every woman who has a lower paycheque because of her gender? To every woman who has been patronised and talked down to at every turn because she is a woman? To every woman who is a bitch because she has an opinion, and a mindless idiot because she lacks one? To every woman who is an uppity cow because she dared to stand up for herself?

 

 

Women are not equal. Anyone who tells you otherwise is ignorant, a misogynist, or both.

 

[/steps off waaaay-OT soapbox]

[ISG1]

No offense, but I don't think you have ever been in the Netherlands right?

[Aryanne]

One thing that bothered me was Kreia's invasion into Atton's mind to uncover his secret. Isn't this a form of rape?

 

 

 

Yes it is its called adult content.Problem with it then dont let your kid play it.

 

As far as women fighting in there underwear training is rigorous/tough/physically/mentally demanding even before a jedi gets her /his sabre.Go watch the empire strikes back again.A sabre doesnt make a jedi sorry.Women compete in martial arts today.Last night watched Muhammed alis daughter box.Guess what she 20-0 17 KO so HAHAHA.

 

Im female-i didnt see alot of stereotyping.What i did see was some devs who work long hours for no pay and no sex life give women the roles we finally deserved.3 of the baddest jedi alive at the time of the galaxy.Im sure they were added to for you guys that cant get off the computer long enough to go meet a girl in reallife to:P.Besides i read an article that there are women on the dev team awhile back.

 

I disagree about visas to broken maybe forever no.She has plenty sense of self as she goes into her own chamber and centers herself before the fight.Thats self will.She also pulls the mask off wants to.She also got the killing blow in my game HAHA on nihilius.Visas redeems herself.

 

As far as kreia not being able to physically stop sion.Well look at sion he can be considered a walking living undead creature while kriea is what 60- 70 years old.Tell me arent all humans weak when we hit that age.

[thepixiesrock]

Suzie, now I would feel bad and be mad at all mandkind and all, but you're just woman so your opinion doesn't matter...

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"And what do you say to every woman in the west who's ever been raped? Assaulted? Murdered?"

 

What do you say to a man who'se gone through that? Most of your examples, as far as I can tell, are not limited to happening only to women, you know?

[Drakron]

Women are equal in THE LAW.

 

You think we guys have it better ... HA, we have the same bullsh*t over steriotypes that women have, only diference lies on the steriotype.

 

Dont give me crap about how women are not equal, THERE IS NO EQUALITY AND IT NEVER WILL, what it matters is how the LAW view its citizens and in western countries we are all equal in the eyes of the law, no matter what race, gender, religion and sexual orientation we are.

[LdyShayna]

"It's the sense of intimate violation that makes it rape, although being beaten up isn't pleasant either."

 

You've got a pretty broad defination for rape. I like specifics.

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Regardless, it's a horrible violation, and a brutal act. If Atton had told my character about it, she might well have spaced Kreia, Dark Side points or no.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Regardless, it's a horrible violation, and a brutal act. If Atton had told my character about it, she might well have spaced Kreia, Dark Side points or no."

 

No one is denying that.