My impressions after finishing..

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

In theory the lnfluence system is light years ahead of KOTOR which is basically spoonfeeding you more story as you advance in levels regardless. However because it does only use influence as a measure then it's easily exploited either on purpose or accidently. Which can mean that no one have much to say after you have exhausted their dialogue.

 

It took me a couple of playthroughs to piece the whole story together and I've still managed to find bits I missed, whether because I didnt want to give the character the time of day, or because my previous character didnt have the skills.

 

Same thing happened with Bastila if you were female or didnt do her romance option(KOTOR).

 

I meant what I said about depth being a waste of time. Would the game have been more involved if that story was fed to you regardless of your actions, for a lot of people it most certainly would have been.

[Trom]

About Goto and Remote on Malachor. The problem for me is that shortly after he arrives on the Ebon Hawk, Goto corrals Remote, seems to interrogate him, then destroys him. Immediately afterwards, I go to Bao Dur and sure enough no Remote floating around. When I talk to Bao-Dur trying to get him to comment on this development I get the "never mind" option as if he's completely unaware at the loss of his constant companion.

 

Did I imagine this or does anyone else remember this happening?

 

I've thought of another possibility as to why the endgame was changed. Maybe when they were nearing completion and thinking about K3 they didn't want K2 to end the way it was outlined. Or maybe they saw Kreia's foretelling as an opportunity to put in a teaser for K3.

 

Of course, they could bring back to life any characters they want. I was surprised to find Bastila appear near the end of the game. I thought I killed her in K1, much to my sorrow. I also was preparing for another hip hip hooray ending so one of the big surprises was to find myself on my way to Malachor.

 

Here are two predictions:

 

1. Perhaps a year or so from now, someone from Obsidian during an interview will tell us what went wrong.

 

2. Prior to the release of K3, we'll hear a lot about how the developers (whoever it turns out to be) listened to all the complaints about K2 and vows to release a stupendous K3.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

About Goto and Remote on Malachor.  The problem for me is that shortly after he arrives on the Ebon Hawk, Goto corrals Remote, seems to interrogate him, then destroys him.  Immediately afterwards, I go to Bao Dur and sure enough no Remote floating around.  When I talk to Bao-Dur trying to get him to comment on this development I get the "never mind" option as if he's completely unaware at the loss of his constant companion.

 

Did I imagine this or does anyone else remember this happening?

 

I've thought of another possibility as to why the endgame was changed.  Maybe when they were nearing completion and thinking about K3 they didn't want K2 to end the way it was outlined.  Or maybe they saw Kreia's foretelling as an opportunity to put in a teaser for K3.

 

Of course, they could bring back to life any characters they want.  I was surprised to find Bastila appear near the end of the game.  I thought I killed her in K1, much to my sorrow.  I also was preparing for another hip hip hooray ending so one of the big surprises was to find myself on my way to Malachor.

 

Here are two predictions:

 

1.  Perhaps a year or so from now, someone from Obsidian during an interview will tell us what went wrong.

 

2.  Prior to the release of K3, we'll hear a lot about how the developers (whoever it turns out to be) listened to all the complaints about K2 and vows to release a stupendous K3.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think it's a graphic glitch. He sort of disapears into the floor rather than being destroyed. Bao Dur just may not know, there is no real sense that the remote speaks about anything beyond it's "job".

 

Also it ties in with GOTO then asking about upgrades. If he's disabled and examined the remote then he's obviously aware of whats inside it. He even says as much in the conversation although in his usual sneaky way.

 

Whether or not Bastila shows up depends on which options you choose with Atton. I've had her appear with Carth in one instance on Telos. The game is very good at keeping the different arcs intact although if you chose a different reponse to how your KOTOR game ended then they wont for obvious reasons.

 

You could be onto something with the change in the ending. After all in this instance you only have Kreias word that things turned out that way. Where as a more solid ending would have been much more difficult to workaround.

[Tarelius]

Shadowpaladin: I am well aware that the story makes 'perfect' sense in regards to Darth Nihilus, I am well aware that he was lured out by Kreia, and that he was weak at the time, i.e. could be defeated (I am not so well aware as to Kreias reasons for doing all of what she does, and having the opinions she has. Sure, I understand the basic reasons, but I had a hard time grasping the mainplot, as I said. Maybe because I had given up on it, maybe because some vital pieces were left out, probably because of both these things). However, me being well aware of the plot devices used, does not eliminate the fact, that the potential of Darth Nihilus is run over with a bulldozer, no matter the perfect sense-making explanations for it, nor does it eliminate the fact that the battle with him is too easy.

 

The end fight with Malak in KoTOR I was really something by the way, would have been nice if Darth Nihilus was one of the characters you couldn't defeat directly, but had to do something indirectly with, no matter whether he was weakened or not. But anyway, his ship, empty and semi-filled with zombies.. Was a nice idea. I just think he had too much potential to be met and dealt with so easily/fast. But, that is one of the lesser quibbles I have with the game. Darth Sion's endbattle was better, imo, though it played out pretty linearily anyway.

 

Trom: Bastila survived in my game of KoTOR I, and everything was set up for a happy-happy ending.. It was great - also because, especially with Bastilla, there were some alternate endings.

 

As for the thing with the droid and Goto, yes, I noticed this too, especially so since three cutscenes happened at the same time when I entered the Ebon Hawk. First GoTO speaks with HK-47, then HK-47 tries to access the Navigation Computer and is shot down by my small helper (HK-47 getting more respect for it afterwards, but it was still confusing to witness all of these events. I know that the droid was trying to hide the fact that it had been on Malachor with Revan, but why? We never find out, though you can ask HK-47 a bit about it. Another thread cut away and not properly masked). After these two cutscenes, I then see Goto and the small droid flying to the engine room and Goto shooting it down. Comparing it with the first cutscene, I was really thinking that Goto wanted to infiltrate the party, and when the small flying droid showed up again, without a scratch, and without anyone commenting on it, I sorta' thought that Goto had created a new droid, inserting his own programs, etc. Would have been cool. However, later, Bao-Dur lets fall an underhand remark to the small droid about it getting upgraded with a more powerful laser, so that Goto cannot 'push' it around anymore. I guess that, with a bit of leeway and suspension of disbelief, he could be seen as referring to that instance, where the droid was shot down and destroyed by Goto in the engine room.. Hrmm.. This game cries to the heavens of not being finished/being gutted.

 

And now that I am in the midst of pointing out details where more plot and quests were probably meant to go, didn't you discover the droids on Nar Shadaa who had some sort of signalling device attached to them, that sent out untraceable signals? The droid at the swoopracing and another, later had such a thing that I discovered. Also, there was the Bith Scientist trying to trace an elusive signal, giving you the quest to find a component for him. That quests justs ends when the scientist has apparently been killed (evidence pointing to his droid, which is not there anymore).. I would guess that this ties in with the HK clone plot.. And there are many other examples. It wasn't just a question of 3 months extra, but more like half a year or more, to get all that should have gone into the game, into it. And in the end, they didn't even have time to remove the most blatant pointers to the missing stuff.

 

The last bit is something I have seldom experienced before, really. Anyway, 12 months is a very short time for developing this, and yes, it was released on schedule, though obviously the developers must have been way too ambitious with what they cram into the game during that schedule and at the same time, they either couldn't or wouldn't prevent it from getting released. They might not be to blame, but it's still too bad for everyone.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Shadowpaladin: I am well aware that the story makes 'perfect' sense in regards to Darth Nihilus, I am well aware that he was lured out by Kreia, and that he was weak at the time, i.e. could be defeated (I am not so well aware as to Kreias reasons for doing all of what she does, and having the opinions she has. Sure, I understand the basic reasons, but  I had a hard time grasping the mainplot, as I said. Maybe because I had given up on it, maybe because some vital pieces were left out, probably because of both these things). However, me being well aware of the plot devices used, does not eliminate the fact, that the potential of Darth Nihilus is run over with a bulldozer, no matter the perfect sense-making explanations for it, nor does it eliminate the fact that the battle with him is too easy.

 

The end fight with Malak in KoTOR I was really something by the way, would have been nice if Darth Nihilus was one of the characters you couldn't defeat directly, but had to do something indirectly with, no matter whether he was weakened or not. But anyway, his ship, empty and semi-filled with zombies.. Was a nice idea. I just think he had too much potential to be met and dealt with so easily/fast. But, that is one of the lesser quibbles I have with the game. Darth Sion's endbattle was better, imo, though it played out pretty linearily anyway.

 

Trom: Bastila survived in my game of KoTOR I, and everything was set up for a happy-happy ending.. It was great - also because, especially with Bastilla, there were some alternate endings.

 

As for the thing with the droid and Goto, yes, I noticed this too, especially so since three cutscenes happened at the same time when I entered the Ebon Hawk. First GoTO speaks with HK-47, then HK-47 tries to access the Navigation Computer and is shot down by my small helper (HK-47 getting more respect for it afterwards, but it was still confusing to witness all of these events. I know that the droid was trying to hide the fact that it had been on Malachor with Revan, but why? We never find out, though you can ask HK-47 a bit about it. Another thread cut away and not properly masked). After these two cutscenes, I then see Goto and the small droid flying to the engine room and Goto shooting it down. Comparing it with the first cutscene, I was really thinking that Goto wanted to infiltrate the party, and when the small flying droid showed up again, without a scratch, and without anyone commenting on it, I sorta' thought that Goto had created a new droid, inserting his own programs, etc. Would have been cool. However, later, Bao-Dur lets fall an underhand remark to the small droid about it getting upgraded with a more powerful laser, so that Goto cannot 'push' it around anymore. I guess that, with a bit of leeway and suspension of disbelief, he could be seen as referring to that instance, where the droid was shot down and destroyed by Goto in the engine room.. Hrmm.. This game cries to the heavens of not being finished/being gutted.

 

And now that I am in the midst of pointing out details where more plot and quests were probably meant to go, didn't you discover the droids on Nar Shadaa who had some sort of signalling device attached to them, that sent out untraceable signals? The droid at the swoopracing and another, later had such a thing that I discovered. Also, there was the Bith Scientist trying to trace an elusive signal, giving you the quest to find a component for him. That quests justs ends when the scientist has apparently been killed (evidence pointing to his droid, which is not there anymore).. I would guess that this ties in with the HK clone plot.. And there are many other examples. It wasn't just a question of 3 months extra, but more like half a year or more, to get all that should have gone into the game, into it. And in the end, they didn't even have time to remove the most blatant pointers to the missing stuff.

 

The last bit is something I have seldom experienced before, really. Anyway, 12 months is a very short time for developing this, and yes, it was released on schedule, though obviously the developers must have been way too ambitious with what they cram into the game during that schedule and at the same time, they either couldn't or wouldn't prevent it from getting released. They might not be to blame, but it's still too bad for everyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It makes perfect sense.

 

The fight with Malak was just cheesey. I hid around a corner smashed him flat in seconds then he ran off to recharge. Repeat a couple of time no more Malak , yep very Star Warsy that was..

 

It wasnt destroyed. Watch the scene carefully it's a graphic glitch. Much like the one where the remote passes through GOTO. Most likely it was ionised..

 

All that on Nar Shada is GOTO he's responsible for all of it. You can bring him up on it later. At which point I would have ejected him out of the airlock but never mind.

 

The Bith is tied to GOTO , the Bith was too close to finding something out and had to be stopped... Dosnt have anything to do with the HK plot directly.

The HK's sent to stop T3 were also sent by GOTO (same ones you see on his ship).

[carnifex]

This game deserves to be fully cheated!

[Tarelius]

Shadowpaladin: Thanks for clarifying the GOTO thing

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Shadowpaladin: Thanks for clarifying the GOTO thing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You know the whole GOTO story ?

[Dellaster]

Thank you, Tarelius, for the excellent post. I don't disagree with anything you wrote. I did, however, have a somewhat different experience with some NPCs because my PC was a LS female. Handmaiden played no part (obviously) and I must have missed a good chunk of Visas' dialogue because of the lack of any romance hook.

 

Speaking of romance, there were no (zero, nada) direct dialogue indications of such with either Disciple or Atton. It was all in cut scenes that didn't include the Exlie -- one of which with Bao-Dur and Atton was very humorous, a true highlight of my game (comic relief is important and all too lacking in most of K2). Kreia mentions Disciple's idealistic love in her visions of the future and answers a direct question about Atton's love with, "he's a fool and that's all the answer you'll ever need with him." (Paraphrase.)

 

So, in my LS female game, I found Bao-Dur to be the most interesting NPC. By far. He chatted quite a bit inside the ship with my PC. And he got what I consider the best cutscene, one that included the Exlie and dialogue interaction: the one where he tells off Mandalore in a most excellent fashion. I cheered.

 

KotOR 2 was a very good 2/3s of a game. A shame about the last third.

[Vanarion]

I totally feel the same Tarelius.

Comparing this game to Planescape: Torment, I came to the personal conclusion, that this game leaves you with a set of tiles of a puzzle that won't fit together. In a well designed story based RPG you should be able to have an influence on the picture you get at the end. Here I don't even get a picture, only fragments.

I want the plot to follow the path of my descisions. Isn't that basic to roleplaying?

I don't want decisive story aspects to be unsolved or to just make no sense.

As for the exiles companions, they just don't develop much depth. Oh yes, we're told that they have their background, but do they act accordingly?

 

*spoilers*

 

- GoTo:

The story tells us his amibitions are to stabilize the republic. He doesn't care how. He's interested in the result. Why does he want to keep the exile away from action. Why does he not keep step with the later events? Shouldn't he more and more tend to support the exiles cousre, as he sees that those new Sith are a thread to all life? He really doesn't develop much and doesn't keep step. And why does he want to keep Bao-Durs drone from destructing Malachor V? The planet and his destructive threat is opposing his goals.

 

 

- Atton:

He seems to have no depth. After telling the exile his past, is there any further and meaningfiul development in him? Shouldn't he go through some crisis after his confession? Shouldn't this entire thing have progressed more throughout the game?

 

 

- Mira:

So she is an orphan raised by the mandalorians. So her life is hunting the life. When you introduce her to the force, all of a sudden she confesses how much fear she had and so on. Where is the process of breaking her shell? Where is the change in her to be felt afterwards? Why are there no emotions coming up in her on Dxun amongst the mandalorians?

 

 

- Deciple:

He idealizes the exile. Shouldn't he realize that the exile is far from ideal?

Couldn't his picture of the exile change from ideal to someone he respects for keeping loyal to his goals? The deciple is so colourless, no combination of strengths and weaknesses that a human being should be.

 

 

- Visas:

Anyone feeling the tradegy of this character? No? Well at leest I can't. Imagine her entire race being killed. Now think of the impact that should have on somone who "sees through the force". The cutscene with Nihlus shows her as an empty shell, forced to do his bidding. It should have been be a long, difficult process to build her up again. As it is she doesn't fit much to the impression of her when she is introduced.

 

 

- Bao-Dur:

He built the shadow device. It's an instrument of his hate. He's completly loyal to his ex-general. After the war he restlessly traveled through the outer rim searching for something lost for him, his inner peace. He stays on Telos to do something constructive. After that, while accompanying the exile, does he develop further? Is there anything going on with him? Where are all the reflections and debates he could have with the exile and the others concerning the past?

 

 

I could go on about this, but it wouldn't lead to any new insights.

 

The game doesn't much take into account what path you take. Does it make any sense to be a "hole in the force" if playing strictly LS? Wouldn't it be more consistent if

Nihilus would be the antihesis to life, splitt of by a brute act of destruction. And the Exile as the only one able to withstand the destruction would be the key to balance. This would even work with the Exile tending to the DS.

After all the exile would want something left to dominate. Nihilus and the Exile would not be connected to any LS versus DS stuff. The question would be if creation could - in any way - triumph over destruction. That simple.

 

 

There could have been a consitant background for Kreia. Lets take a look at her:

 

She was exiled by the council and is confident that the council is responsible for much that went wrong in the past. She felt the jedi kodex to be insufficient, only being a set of phrases to minimize the danger for a jedi to fall. But being insufficiant the kodex doesn't prevent a jedi from falling when it comes to a certain point. So she searched for knowledge where ever it could be found and grew a hatred for the force as she gets the impression that the force does only seek balance between constuctive and destructive powers. Thus every effort to strengthen either side is futile.

So I don't see her Sith or Jedi. I don't see her LS or DS. What should her goals be?

- Keeping the life from being destroyed

- Destoying the force

- Make the council pay. (Yes in her pride and selfishness she is DS somehow)

- Soving the riddle the exile is

 

 

So what would be her actions after Malachor V?

 

- She experiments with the twisted results wich are Nihilus and Sion. She learns Nihilus is like the entropy of a black hole, consuming more and more life. Sion is a hollowed shell only held together by the DS and his wish to see everyone suffer as he did. Both of them are a disapointment to her because they don't show a way to get rid of the force without destroying all life.

 

 

- The exile

is her last hope for that as the exile was able to cut him-/herself from the force. She seeks to find out how that was possible and realizes that something in the exiles nature is independent to the force and can not be touched from either of its aspects. She reintroduces the exile to the force to achive the goal of saving the life and to take revenge on the council. This why it doesn't matter to her what path the exile takes. Because either way the exile would serve her goals. The final confrontaion between her and the exile could be explained too. She hates the force, but to achieve her other goals she allowed the force to get even stronger in the exile then ever before. The exiles point of view is opposite to hers. Seeing the force as a product of all thats existing, the exile believes that somone that doesn't allow himself to be carried away by it's tides, could change things in the physical world and thereby in the force itself. The Exile would learn that everyone trying to change things directly through the force would fail. Destoying the force would be impossible as it is a kind of energy generated by all that exists. So the exile and Kreia oppose each other at the end.

 

 

Enough said. The actual plot doesn't work for me and that's it after all.

So why do I still care? It's because I don't understand how they could ship this game in this state. I got the impressions that there were ambitions for a sophisticated plot with side aspects and all. But it has all been given up. From an artists point of view, shouldn't this be disappointing? Imagine to have all the elements for a good book and then write a dime novel. Sad, isn't it?

[Avatar Lightbringer]

I think I agree with the most part. I was disappointed with how the story unfolds, with Nihilus, with the NPC interactions (ok, there were some good moments of interaction, I can't deny that) and with the ending. I mean... I wasn't even satisfied that much with KOTOR 1 because I felt that at some point I was not given the option of saying what I really wanted to say, or do what I wanted. I was anxiously doing all the quests and stuff, trying to see where the romance options go, why's your character in this state, etc etc, and the end ruins it all. But I should've seen it coming... Darth Nihilus served his purpose. From the moment I encountered him, the developers started sucking my enjoyment of the game. By the end, they had annihilated. Good job, Nihilus

[Mark Havel]

I wont quote anything, but I agree with most of the posts here. If there is a third KotOR, it will be either one of the best CRPG ever or one the worst piece of crap.

[Darth Post]

someone posted the dialogue.tlk in a german kotor2 forum. Everyone could see what great potential that game would have, if Obsidian had the time to complete it.

 

You can see, that a great part was left away especially on Malachor, your party members tried to stop Darth Traya and failed.

Atton was turned by Darth Sion into his counterpart and died when you found him, A great dialogue was planned.

 

short excerpt:

 

{[sion advances through the halls. Atton comes to face him, looking a little sheepish. Darth Sion draws his blade against Atton.] }

Sion: i took the fool.

Atton: Funny, i thought the same.

{[Gameplay Programmer: Sion levitates Atton into the air, holding him in place.]}

{[At the end, Sion cuts off his arm, then leaves Atton on the ground, writhing in pain but Atton staggers to his feet, still wounded. Sion stops, turns.]}

Atton: {Weakly, just had hand cut off} You are running away? I am not done with you.

Sion: Ich mit Euch auch nicht! {Levitates Atton} Ich werde Euch neu formen. Damit ich, wenn ich Euch ansehe, in einen Spiegel blicke. *Dann* lasse ich Euch sterben.

Atton: Du k

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

someone posted the dialogue.tlk in a german kotor2 forum. Everyone could see what great potential that game would have, if Obsidian had the time to complete it.

 

You can see, that a great part was left away especially on Malachor, your party members tried to stop Darth Traya and failed.

Atton was turned by Darth Sion into his counterpart and died when you found him, A great dialogue was planned.

 

short excerpt:

 

{[sion advances through the halls. Atton comes to face him, looking a little sheepish. Darth Sion draws his blade against Atton.] }

Sion: i took the fool.

Atton: Funny, i thought the same.

{[Gameplay Programmer: Sion levitates Atton into the air, holding him in place.]}

{[At the end, Sion cuts off his arm, then leaves Atton on the ground, writhing in pain but Atton staggers to his feet, still wounded. Sion stops, turns.]}

Atton: {Weakly, just had hand cut off} You are running away? I am not done with you.

Sion: Ich mit Euch auch nicht! {Levitates Atton} Ich werde Euch neu formen. Damit ich, wenn ich Euch ansehe, in einen Spiegel blicke. *Dann* lasse ich Euch sterben.

Atton: Du k

[Volourn]

Huh? That's not worthy of a M rating. Both KOTOR and KOTOR have scenes just as "m". You are so far fetch. Geez..

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Huh? That's not worthy of a M rating. Both KOTOR and KOTOR have scenes just as "m". You are so far fetch. Geez..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's in the deliberate intent to maim. You really should read the guidelines.

 

Which scenes would those be just for a laugh ?

[Trom]

I've just completed A LOT of research and I hope you find this as interesting as I did.

 

Release Dates:

 

KOTOR I: XBox July 2003, PC Version November 2003

KOTOR II: XBox December 2004, PC Version February 2005

 

May 13, 2004 announcement in Gamespy

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/star-wars-knights...2/515336p2.html

 

According to LucasArts, the fact that the PC version of KotOR was released six months after the Xbox version presented a huge problem for the marketing team. Apparently, many of the articles written about it, including reviews, actually revealed the game's big twist. That won't be a problem this time, though, as both versions are being released simultaneously. One interesting thing is that the team is considering making both versions slightly different. The original game, of course, had a number of special weapons, a space station and a couple of extra missions that were eventually available as Xbox Live downloads. Assuming that they actually do that this time, though, both versions would get some unique content not available in the other. It wouldn't be substantial enough to change the experience, but it might be enough to make a player want to play both versions. Expect Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords to hit your PCs in early 2005.

 

 

June 14, 2004 announcement in Gamespy

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/star-wars-knights....html?fromint=1

 

Fans of Star Wars and RPGs were given some extraordinarily good news when LucasArts officially changed the release date of the highly anticipated sequel to Knights of the Old Republic. While the game was initially supposed to release in February of 2005, the date has now been moved up to "winter." The new date was confirmed for GameSpy by a LucasArts spokesperson.

 

 

September 10, 2004 announcement in Gamespy

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/star-wars-knights...2/546820p1.html

 

LucasArts today confirmed that the Xbox version of Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, developed by Obsidian Entertainment Inc., is scheduled for a December 2004 release date

"We were hoping we could bring the Xbox platform into December but didn't want to make the formal announcement until we knew an earlier ship date would not compromise the quality of The Sith Lords," says Producer Mike Gallo. "We recently completed a very important milestone which confirmed we can confidently do this."

 

November 10, 2004 Interview in Gamespy, Feargus Urquhart, CEO of Obsidian Entertainment

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/star-wars-knights...2/565247p1.html

 

Feargus Urquhart: Both the PC and Xbox version will be the same in the end; however, we have put in a lot of work on the PC interface. It will now work in multiple resolutions in full screen. That not only includes the menus, but the in-game buttons and graphics as well. So, when you take the resolution all the way up, the interface won't just be smaller in the middle of the screen with a nice border.

 

GameSpy: Will you have more variety in the building appearance and NPC heads?

 

Feargus Urquhart: We've really tried to put in all that we can into each of the areas and we are paying for some of that right now. However, were using every trick in the book that we've learned through the years to keep all of those cool things in the levels and not have the Xbox start smoking. I would say that we've increased the number of heads in most of the areas by at least half and hopefully doubled it in others. I think you'll also notice that the areas in KotOR II are a fair amount larger as well.

 

GameSpy: Will there be a plot twist, and if so, how do you plan on topping the plot twist of the first game?

 

Feargus Urquhart: We have never set out to make a newer, better, and more improved plot twist. Our goal has always been to craft a story that the player loves and enjoys playing. There will be all sorts of different twists and turns in the story, but we never set out to craft an entire story around making a bigger twist than KotOR, we set about making a story that stood on its own and was as deep and intriguing as KotOR. We think we've done that and hope all the people out there will dig it.

 

Feargus Urquhart: We're not talking about all of them yet, however, each of the companions is not only going to have very distinctly different personalities and roles to play in the story, they also each have special abilities that no other character can get.

 

February 4, 2005 Gamespy Developer Notes: Chris Parker, producer at Obsidian

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/star-wars-knights...2/584907p1.html

 

We all worked hard to get the Xbox version out in time for the holidays, but the important part is that the vast majority of folks are enjoying it, and we've even been nominated for several awards. That's not the topic on the table, however. This diary is about the last days of the project and the completion of the PC version.

 

The Windows version was essentially developed in conjunction with the Xbox version. We spent a good chunk of time at the beginning of the project syncing up assets and figuring out a build process that produced a new Xbox and PC version of the game every morning. We had the opportunity to ship the Xbox version in December (but keep the PC release until February as we originally announced), so we focused our efforts on the Xbox. The fellas who made this game used the PC version to test changes, so in many ways as we debugged the Xbox version, we were also fixing most of the bugs in the PC version which made the PC completion process post-December much easier.

 

When we finally finished up the Xbox version in November, we needed a short break.

 

(break)

 

By the end of December the PC version was working pretty well, but we had to shift focus to the international versions. Somewhere in our localization loop, there was a hole, and a number of strings (chunks of text) weren't translated -- that's bad news. KotOR II has over 500,000 words and thousands and thousands of strings. We had to go about finding hundreds of these 'lost strings' by hand, a job that primarily fell to me and John Morgan, the assistant producer. On one hand it was good, since we figured out the problem so it'll never happen to us again, but on the other hand, it caused issues all the way up to the end and removed any hope of my own time off over the holiday.

 

(break)

 

We finished fixing stuff in the second week of January and began finalizing the project. There were more late nights, a couple of manageable disasters, but overall completing the PC version went smoothly.

 

It's seems like it's been a long road, but it wasn't too long. And Obsidian had a lot of fun developing KotOR II along the way -- build a company and build a project at the same time. Fun! The project would never have been finished without the extremely dedicated efforts of everybody working on the team and the support and hard work of the folks at LucasArts. I'm heading off for vacation, this is literally the last bit of work I'm doing before a little R&R. I hope you all like this game. I'm already looking forward to the next project.

[Trom]

I did the research above and found a number of interesting tidbits. I now propose this scenario of what went wrong:

 

1. In May, marketers were concerned about the timeline and it seems that the devs considered two games.

 

2. By June, however, LA is already declaring an early release.

 

3. In September, LA says it was "hoping" to get it out by Christmas. Clearly the pressure was on Obsidian. Parker calls this an "opportunity."

 

4. In November, however, Urquhart alludes to "paying" now for trying to get too much into the game. This is just a week or so before shipping! This I believe is the smoking gun. Something happened to the build at this point. I'm guessing that whatever they had in mind for an endgame would not play on the XBox or played poorly. Given that it was about to ship, the decision was made to truncate the endgame. I further surmise they couldn't just cut a little as the original endgame was interconnected. Thus we end with Kreia reciting to us.

 

So there it is. Either Obsidian or LA when confronted with a major problem at the end decided to truncate the game, after all, it is 80% great, and meet its shipping date. I believe they were very very concerned about having both versions miss Christmas.

[ken007]

<Sigh>.... I'm unhappy to say this, but I fully agree with you Tarelius

 

I really feel that I've been cheated and punched in the stomach after completing KotOR II. I really feel that the ending is beyond words to describe.... nearly beyond... it's disappointing, that's probably the most positive word I can call it. I actually sat and watched the credits for at least a minute, just watching, feeling disappointed.

I had actually started playing the game once again as a DS char, but after coming to this forum and reading that the game was rushed and how the game could have been great if only LA would have let Obsidian take their time.... I don't even want to look at that game untill I see a patch that can fix it, so it's at least presentable!

 

Don't get me wrong, I actually think the game has many positive moments, but they don't outweigh the negatives, at least in my book they don't!

 

I'd like to list some of the positive things:

- I liked the many sub-quest, at least those that weren't gutted

- The work/lab-bench... that was good

- There's lots of other things that I liked, but it all happens before the jedi-counsil

 

Now I'd like to list some of the things I disliked:

- The ending is the worst thing! The malachor level is so cheesey, it's so dismal and uninteresting, there's a couple of 'dinosaur-thingys' and what are their purpose? Their just there so the story can be stretched a few more minutes. Then you get to the academy and then it's a 'hack n' slash'-fest for a half an hour or so. I wasn't even remotely immersed into the last hour of gameplay, not at all, it was a 'just getting it over with' routine!

- The bosses..... I found them to be not interesting, they weren't believeable villains! Nihilus was very cool and I had high hopes for him.... until I fought him! He was pathetic, and I know that it makes sense that he was weak, but he shouldn't have been that weak! Sion was an interesting villain, I liked it that he was too powerful at Korriban and you had to flee, that was a nice change, but he was also disappointing at malachor! I don't like that you just stand in one single position and pound on each other, it's stupid, you would just pound him a couple of times, go into dialogue and then repeat and repeat and then he's dead, it's weak! The reason Kreia was so easy is probably because I played LS and therefore I didn't give her any DS forcepowers, but that shouldn't be an excuse, those lightsabers she created were far more challenging than she was... and by the way, where did they come from, it was just a power which she suddenly was able to use?!

But what I most of all didn't like about the bosses was that I didn't have any emotions towards them, they were just there to be defeated or at least that's how I felt towards them..... namely nothing!

- I think it's funny that the PC doesn't actually have any clue about Kreia being the evil one... I mean, it's so obvious! Right from the beginning of the game I knew she was up to something!

- I don't like the influence system, because I was having a hard time roleplaying my char to the fullest! It was like if I don't agree with Kreia, I thought that I would miss out on something.... Until I discovered that she stays neutral all the time! Instead of focusing my energy into roleplaying my char, I found myself trying to influence my partymembers all the time and focusing on that! When ever I lost influence with a partymember, it felt like I was failing and I didn't enjoy it!

- All the bugs.... I don't even need to explain!

- I was having a hard time fully understanding the storyand what it was all about... I think I understood about 85-90% what it was about, it wasn't until I came to this forum, that I now know what it was all about.... but I would even now have a hard time if I were to explain it to somebody!

 

I think I've rambled on enough now, but it's something I had to ramble about!

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It's called Telekinetic combat.

[lost-soul]

I couldn't agree more with pretty much everything posted in this thread. I think I've read it all, but forgive me if I missed something, I'm a little worn out.

 

Anyway, I'd just like to mention that I too felt the many holes in the tapestry that is kotor2. I felt like I was running around without a purpose, to be honest. When I finished, it wasn't the "I just saved/destroyed( circle one.. ) the galaxy, and damn what a trip!" feeling that kotor gave me the first time around. Furthermore, it wasn't just the gaps in the story, but the characters themselves were so painfully incomplete that I was never truly sure what they wanted or what they felt, even at the end of it all. The only characters that had any sort of development were Brianna/Handmaiden and Kreia. Visas only had her initial story when you find her on the Ebon Hawk, and then at the end when she pleads for you to stay with her. As for HK-47, when I found him in the storage compartment of the Hawk, it was one of my favorite moments of the game... but then I repaired him. I expected him to spill his guts about all the adventures I took him on in kotor1. What does he have to say to me? "Master, I seem to have had a case of amnesia wash over me.." And that was it for HK-47, I never heard form him again for the rest of the game. The quick witted, psycho assassin droid; probably one of my favorite characters to come out of the SW universe, reduced to a doormat for the Ebon Hawk. As for Mira, the first and last conversation I had with her was on Nar Shaddaa. For the rest of the game, it just looped the same tree over and over. I didn't even know you could train her as a Jedi until I read it on the forums... I looked forward to seeing Canderous again, but he seemed to have the same deal as Mira, one conversation and that was it. Same goes for Bao-Dur. And GOTO? who? Yea, the annoying useless black ball.. nice.

 

I've always been intrigued by gripping and immersive stories more so than graphics; but the lack thereof is too noticeable for my taste. And I really can't understand why. They were using the same engine, a lot of the textures were available to be reused, yet the environments lacked certain qualities that made kotor that much better. When I went to Taris, Dantooine, Tatooine, Manaan, Korriban, and the Rakatan home world, each had it's own mood and atmosphere about them. I haven

[LoneWolf16]

I just finished, little over an hour ago, and, can safely say, that never has a game's climax left me so completely and utterly unfulfilled. I felt (and still feel) lost, confused, even a bit angered by the amount of squandered potential. Several things don't add up, but I believe most, if not all of those things bugging me have been addressed already.

 

As was mentioned, up until Dantooine (I was pure LS) the game was (somewhat) meeting my expectations. Then, something along the lines of "this" happened...

 

Me: Hmm...wound? A wound in the force? What the hell does- But...but...full LS bar, and I just- What!? They're taking it back again!? But I...Kreia?

 

*click on Vandar's corpse* blah blah....dead....blah blah.

 

Me: ...................what was the point of the last 20 some hours?

 

May have ad-libbed here and there...but the basic point is still clear...partly...a little........bit. Anyway, I'm still going to play through again, as a DSer...and I'll enjoy getting my revenge on all these damned hollow husks of code and pixels...steal 30 hours of MY life will they?

[Tarelius]

It's been great reading the thoughts of people here in this thread. It seems like there are quite some people, who feel the same as I do, and who need to get it off their chests. Indeed, almost every post seem to agree with me, which has come as something of a surprise to me - you never know if you're the only one seeing things a certain way, until you talk with others about it. I d

[Sir Cedric]

I too want to chime in here. I finished TSL yesterday afternoon, and after the anti-climax, I decided to sleep on my impressions before my own rambling. I tend to agree with everyone that up until the Jedi Council on Dantooine, everything was done pretty well. I think the problem I ran into, was the fact that while they kept promising me that, when I get all the masters together, they would explain all. So I kept my questions until the council, and played along.

 

Imagine my annoyance when I get to the council, a full light side jedi, and they not only don't explain anything but decide that I am too dangerous and need to cut from the force again! It is a downhill run from there.

 

I have thought about it overnight, and I think the crux of the problem was the fact that I was NOT an amnesiac. Several times during the story, things would come out that I had done something pretty freaking bad back on Malachor V, and that is why I chose to cut myself off from the force. Well that's all well and good, but I could never find out what the frack I did! If I had amnesia the designers would have felt obligated to tell me what it was. It wasn't till the silly remote running around Malachor V that I learned it was some "magic" device that simply destroys planets (I think). Why did I nuke an entire planet?

 

I think from a game mechanics standpoint they should have taken the premise they had and carried it one step further. Like our wars in Vietnam and the Gulf, particularly traumatic battles tend to stick in the mind of the participant and flashbacks have been documented to occur to the participants of these wars. If whatever I did was so bad that I cut myself off from the force why am I not having these flashbacks! The designer could use these cutscenes to tell me what is going on! Why did I nuke Malachor? What device did Bao-dur make? What was the scenario that pushed my decision? What was the aftermath? What was Revan's part in it? I need to know these answers to be interested in returning to the place later. I need to know these answers for my investment in my character!

 

The other problem I had was with the whole Revan, Darth Traya thing. I, like several other posters here, never got anything more out of my favorite character from KOTOR HK-47 then "I seem to have suffered a bout of selective memory problems". What happened to Revan? I got the impression that he was on Malachor, but why did then he run to the outer rim? Why was I supposed to follow? Why do I have the Ebon Hawk? Why did he have to leave everyone behind? I ran through the whole quest of getting HK up and running to find out these questions, and then the seemingly arbitrary influence system keeps me from having the other half of the story complete. (I think the influence system sounds nice, but for major arc issues for the story, the characters should talk. The influence system should only be in effect for character flavor. In this respect Atton was well done, but Kreia, HK-47, T3, and Bao-dur were not. The story is not effected if I don't know that Atton used to be a Jedi Hunter, but it sure the frack is, if I don't know what happened in my own past!)

 

The true travesty of this whole thing, in my mind, is that I know the folks at Obsidian can do better than this. I have played all of their games, from PST to Icewind Dale 1& 2, Fallout, Baldur's Gate. I personally know the main designer is more capable from his past work with New Reno in Fallout 2 and with the entirety of PST. What went wrong with TSL? Is there someplace where the design documents are posted, so I can atleast get the story of the game I just finished playing? (Cause I don't feel like playing another 3 unfulfilled times to try and eek out the answers I missed in my first game, if they even exist)

 

I appreciate that we have a forum where we can discuss our experiences, and I hope that the developers are reading this thread. It really is an articulate bunch of folk in here.

[Trom]

Excellent analysis Sir Cedric. K1 hit upon the perfect plot device with the amnesia theme. It provided a logical and plausible reason for revealing the game in steps. Of course, to repeat that in K2 would be less than ideal and your idea of flashbacks is a great idea. I think they tried that a bit with the Test at the Sith Academy. However, then the weight fell on Kreia to do the rest of the revealing of something, as you point out, I should already know.

 

As far as what went wrong, I made a post earlier in this thread about that. I traced the development history and found several smoking guns. You talk about all the other games they've done, but Obsidian is a new company. Do you mean the work they've done for other companies? Or am I missing something?