KOTOR3? Bioware Please

[Funks]

come on guys, remember Baldur's Gate 1, 2 + Expansion?

 

Bioware KNOW how to amke games, and more importantly, end them satisfactory.

[Tanuvein]

Well, Davik is not a plot hole. It doesn't make sense indeed, but this kind of thing in KOTORII is also abundant, irrelavant.

 

 

You only see in the cutsceence a single Sith ship (Malak's ship), but the fact is there is a whole fleet, the admiral told Malak that he will need several "hours" to posistion the "fleet". So I bet Taris is surrounded by what should be hundred Sith warships, without the code that mean one can not take of on any side of the planet.

 

The jedi admit that they're in desperate, and that make sense. Remember the original purpose is to use Revan and find the source of the Sith fleet production. Revan is never meant to defeat Malak. Maybe the Council still tolerate Revan because they only need him to fight the starforce, and that's an action out of desperate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I didn't really see anything like that in KotOR II, please point something out.

 

And about the fleet, he did mention that, but they should have then put some consistency in the films. I'd let that one guy.

 

But not about the Council. My character is radiating evil, she looks like a homicidal murederer. I have no charisma and based on how others could tell I'm lying easily, I really suck at that.

[Brannart]

come on guys, remember Baldur's Gate 1, 2 + Expansion?

 

Bioware KNOW how to amke games, and more importantly, end them satisfactory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Of course. That is why Jade Empire and Dragon Age are going to be good. But Bioware is not going to be making KOTOR III so it doesn't really relate to what we are talking about.

[Volourn]

"The problem is not Obsidian but Lucas Arts."

 

Stop the stupidity, please.

 

 

"i hate these bioware vs. obsidian threads because you dont know for sure whether bioware would have done a better job given the same development time, nor do we know for sure if obsidian would have done a better job if they were given more development time. its all speculation."

 

I agree. Quite frankly, anyone who thinks BIo would have done better or Obsidian would have done better are the very definition of fanboys.

 

Could BIO have done what obsidian in just over a year? Who knows.

 

Could Obsidian have done what BIO did with KOTOR without having the KOTOR1 base to work from?

 

Both sides are stupid. Judge the games on their own merits; not on who made them.

 

As for the avrious endings, I haven't finsihed KOTOR2 yet; but KOTOR1's endings while not fancy or idnepth; aren't bad. And, they do wrap stuff up. And, KOTOR's mains tory points are while out their in 'realistic' nature; are all beleiveable in the SW universe.

 

 

And, BIO doens't do Happy Happy endings - KOTOR1 was the closest, and even then it didn't have to be Happy Happy land sicne you cna play DS.

 

 

That is all. For now.

[Whitemithrandir]

We never ask for a ceremony or that soft, and it's not the only way to wrap up a story. So your point is?

 

 

And may I ask how many Bioware games you played? Most deffinitely not BG series and NWN series (which is their 2 biggest serries). Because if you did play those 2 series than that  "crappy, predictable, happy-go-lucky WOO HOO YOU WIN ending" line won't find its place.

 

So next time, try to be not sarcastic, and don't be so sure "that's exactly what we'll get" if you don't have proof.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've about as much merit making the assumption that Bioware will put in a happy go lucky light side ending as someone saying Bioware will do a better job on the game given the circumstances.

 

I've played BG2 about... oh... 20 dozen times. I first registered on the BIS boards back in april of 2001 because I loved the game so much. What's NOT happy go lucky about the BG2 ending? You either become A GOD (it don't get any happier-go-luckier than that, buddy) or you decline and live the rest of your life as a LEGEND with the one you love (wow, so terribly depressing.)

 

If you're talking about the NWN OC, I've played that also. Aside from being a steaming pile of crap, the ending was lighthearted. You kill the time travelling lizards from hell and stop the invasion. Neverwinter is happy! WOO HOO! Aribeth, as the end of NWN OC sets her up, is walking the path to redemption. Bioware, in a brilliant manuver, axes her in SoU, which completely undermines everything you've done to save her in NWN OC. She is, however, later REDEEMED in HoTU and everyone is generally happy... after the demonic invasion of course.

 

 

Which begs the question... HAVE YOU PLAYED THOSE GAMES?

[Volourn]

"Which begs the question... HAVE YOU PLAYED THOSE GAMES?"

 

Have you? Apparantly not?.

[Whitemithrandir]

"Which begs the question... HAVE YOU PLAYED THOSE GAMES?"

 

Have you? Apparantly not?.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Haha, so what "light side" ending did you get playing those games, Volo?

 

Was there a patch that added in a different ending that I wasn't aware of?

 

Your one-liner trolls for the sole sake of trolling is getting boring.

[Tanuvein]

White is correct, in this.

[Volourn]

"Haha, so what "light side" ending did you get playing those games, Volo?

 

Was there a patch that added in a different ending that I wasn't aware of?

 

Your one-liner trolls for the sole sake of trolling is getting boring."

 

Stop being making things up, and I wouldn't have to use one liners. Actually state something that's at leats half true and I'll put more effort into countering it.

 

The OC's ending is as much Happy Happy Land as any BIS/Interplay game outside of PST. PST is the *only* BIS game that didn't have a Happy Happy Ending.

[Whitemithrandir]

Stop being making things up, and I wouldn't have to use one liners. Actually state something that's at leats half true and I'll put more effort into countering it.

 

What'd I make up again?

 

The OC's ending is as much Happy Happy Land as any BIS/Interplay game outside of PST. PST is the *only* BIS game that didn't have a Happy Happy Ending.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fallouts didn't have happy happy endings, what are you talking about? Fallout endings are by far darker than the endings for NWN OC.

[Tanuvein]

"Haha, so what "light side" ending did you get playing those games, Volo?

 

Was there a patch that added in a different ending that I wasn't aware of?

 

Your one-liner trolls for the sole sake of trolling is getting boring."

 

Stop being making things up, and I wouldn't have to use one liners. Actually state something that's at leats half true and I'll put more effort into countering it.

 

The OC's ending is as much Happy Happy Land as any BIS/Interplay game outside of PST. PST is the *only* BIS game that didn't have a Happy Happy Ending.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wouldn't call Baldur's Gate, Fallout 1 or 2, or KotOR I or II happy, happy endings. Sure, the good guys (can) win, but that doesn't mean its happy.

 

Icewind Dale I and II had fairly emotionally dead, yet still fun, endings. Big evil comes and slaughters, big good retaliates. But they weren't really plot deep games (though the story was fun in both).

 

I don't really remember NWN and SoU endings, other than SoU wasnot happy cause you were on a giant thing that crashed.

 

I should note, the fact you stopped an apocalypse is not neccessarily happy. It just means you aren't dead, so you can suffer more.

[Darth Credulous]

Thousands lay dead, and a land was torn apart by warfare, in both BG series and NWN's OC. You managed to salvage what you could of the situation, and you can consider yourself as having kept your honour, but no, there is no 'Mario saves the Princess, bounce bounce' ending here. Even in the NWN OC, there's nothing more than a bitter sweetness. If you chose to ignore all that happened in the game and simply concentrated on the fate of the main character, then... well, you didn't really manage to 'play the role', unless you were roleplaying a selfish, mercenary character.

[Whitemithrandir]

I wouldn't call Baldur's Gate, Fallout 1 or 2, or KotOR I or II happy, happy endings. Sure, the good guys (can) win, but that doesn't mean its happy.

 

Icewind Dale I and II had fairly emotionally dead, yet still fun, endings. Big evil comes and slaughters, big good retaliates. But they weren't really plot deep games (though the story was fun in both).

 

I don't really remember NWN and SoU endings, other than SoU wasnot happy cause you were on a giant thing that crashed.

 

I should note, the fact you stopped an apocalypse is not neccessarily happy. It just means you aren't dead, so you can suffer more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A prominent theme behind BIS/obsidian games is that walking the path of light often has the hero suffer great sacrifices, the notion that there is a price for being "good".

 

Your character in NWN OC killed the lizards. You're the HERO OF NEVERWINTER!!!! WIN!!!

Your character in BGII stops the evil AND BECOMES A GOD!!!! or... A LEGEND!!!! living happily ever after with the one you love.

 

On the other hand...

 

Your character in Ps:T walks the path of light that ultimately ends up in him making the greatest sacrifice a man can make: the fate of eternal damnation.

 

Your character in fallout restores a certain balance to the world, but in the end, loses his identity and is cast out by his fellow peers.

 

 

Thousands lay dead, and a land was torn apart by warfare, in both BG series and NWN's OC. You managed to salvage what you could of the situation, and you can consider yourself as having kept your honour, but no, there is no 'Mario saves the Princess, bounce bounce' ending here. Even in the NWN OC, there's nothing more than a bitter sweetness. If you chose to ignore all that happened in the game and simply concentrated on the fate of the main character, then... well, you didn't really manage to 'play the role', unless you were roleplaying a selfish, mercenary character.

 

Haha, if people didn't die, if the land weren't torn by war and destruction, than the devs need to spend more time designing a better villain. If the ending focused on the destruction and the wartorn state of the world, I would agree with you. But in both games, the ending concentrated on YOU, how you were a GREAT HERO. KOTOR's lightside ending is BLINDINGLY obvious of this. BG2 was as well. Camera pans out. Narrator talks about you being a legend or god. Whee. NWN OC: YOU ARE THE HERO OF NEVERWINTER!!! WIN!!!!! See what I'm saying?

[Tanuvein]

I wouldn't call Baldur's Gate, Fallout 1 or 2, or KotOR I or II happy, happy endings. Sure, the good guys (can) win, but that doesn't mean its happy.

 

Icewind Dale I and II had fairly emotionally dead, yet still fun, endings. Big evil comes and slaughters, big good retaliates. But they weren't really plot deep games (though the story was fun in both).

 

I don't really remember NWN and SoU endings, other than SoU wasnot happy cause you were on a giant thing that crashed.

 

I should note, the fact you stopped an apocalypse is not neccessarily happy. It just means you aren't dead, so you can suffer more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A prominent theme behind BIS/obsidian games is that walking the path of light often has the hero suffer great sacrifices, the notion that there is a price for being "good".

 

Your character in NWN OC killed the lizards. You're the HERO OF NEVERWINTER!!!! WIN!!!

Your character in BGII stops the evil AND BECOMES A GOD!!!! or... A LEGEND!!!! living happily ever after with the one you love.

 

On the other hand...

 

Your character in Ps:T walks the path of light that ultimately ends up in him making the greatest sacrifice a man can make: the fate of eternal damnation.

 

Your character in fallout restores a certain balance to the world, but in the end, loses his identity and is cast out by his fellow peers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I thought BGII's endign was sad, actually. I became a god because it was my duty, but it meant leaving behind the ones I loved and fought with.

[Whitemithrandir]

I thought BGII's endign was sad, actually. I became a god because it was my duty, but it meant leaving behind the ones I loved and fought with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Your choice. You can stay with your buddies if you wanted. Didn't have to choose a god, you know. Both are considered "Lightside endings". Besides, what's so bad about being a god anyways? You still get to keep an eye on your buddies, and in a few years, they'll join you in the afterlife.

 

EDIT:

Well... unless you boned Aerie... maybe the fact that she has to raise your kid alone might be a cause for sadness, but there's a lesson for ya: don't bone wingless elf chicks and always use contraception.

[Tanuvein]

I thought BGII's endign was sad, actually. I became a god because it was my duty, but it meant leaving behind the ones I loved and fought with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Your choice. You can stay with your buddies if you wanted. Didn't have to choose a god, you know. Both are considered "Lightside endings". Besides, what's so bad about being a god anyways? You still get to keep an eye on your buddies, and in a few years, they'll join you in the afterlife.

 

EDIT:

Well... unless you boned Aerie... maybe the fact that she has to raise your kid alone might be a cause for sadness, but there's a lesson for ya: don't bone wingless elf chicks and always use contraception.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I didn't go into that sort of relationship option, I find them uninteresting generally.

 

I still found it sad, though. I know I could have stayed, but because of the way I played my char, I felt it was my duty to take up godhood. Call me silly

[Funks]

Since we're on the subject of Baldur's Gate. I hear a BGIII is in development.

 

Okay, this is wrong. WRONG. Baldur's gate ended on such a closing note. You just can't extend it anymore.

 

'sides, Bioware isn't even doing it. We know this will fail.

 

 

Also: There are 4 endings in BGII - ToB.

 

Good - Mortal

Good - God

Evil - Mortal

Evil - God

[PizzasRgooD]

id say obsidian for kotor3

 

i didnt even like kotor1, it went bad with the first starmap (they all had these big "STARMAP THAT HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND BUT ACTUALLY PEOPLE ARE WALKING ALL OVER IT IS HERE" arrows next to them)

at least obsidian could keep it up until later in the game

[Whitemithrandir]

Since we're on the subject of Baldur's Gate. I hear a BGIII is in development.

 

Okay, this is wrong. WRONG. Baldur's gate ended on such a closing note. You just can't extend it anymore.

 

'sides, Bioware isn't even doing it. We know this will fail.

 

 

Also: There are 4 endings in BGII - ToB.

 

Good - Mortal

Good - God

Evil - Mortal

Evil - God

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, I was discussing only the "good side" endings, since the original comment was about how Bioware has this trend of making "good side" endings really "good".

[Funks]

ah, but the story, in my opnion was better in KOTOR1. the unvieling of you to revan. fantastic piece of storytelling.

 

(although it's a little too close to Planescape: Torment)

[Darth Credulous]

Whee. NWN OC: YOU ARE THE HERO OF NEVERWINTER!!! WIN!!!!! See what I'm saying?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

... not a million miles away from Episodes 4 and 1, in fact. But they're part of a series of tales, just like the NWN OC and KOTOR1.

[Funks]

Since we're on the subject of Baldur's Gate. I hear a BGIII is in development.

 

Okay, this is wrong. WRONG. Baldur's gate ended on such a closing note. You just can't extend it anymore.

 

'sides, Bioware isn't even doing it. We know this will fail.

 

 

Also: There are 4 endings in BGII - ToB.

 

Good - Mortal

Good - God

Evil - Mortal

Evil - God

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, I was discussing only the "good side" endings, since the original comment was about how Bioware has this trend of making "good side" endings really "good".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Agreed, White.

 

Bioware have a habit of making great endings, I think they can predict, especially where dialog options are limited, that most players will opt for a good ending. but in my opinion all endings are great. Baldur's Gate Trilogy was a legend,

 

oh, and the music kicked arse.

[mightysword]

Ok, answer 1 question by 1 question:

 

- Yes, I did play BG, it's the first RPG I played when I first play on PC and I still play it now once in a while.

 

 

- Sorry, but in BG, it's not the sense that you win. In BG it's either revenge, or a fight for your own sake, you don't do that for other. Yeah sure, I end up having a kid with Aerie so sure that make me happy, is it how to define a happy ending? No, it's an ending of peace, after so much strugle you decide to stand down, or you become a god, and that's happy? No, I think the only people who think Power bring happy is the people who desire power. Happy? No. Good? Yes. It wraps up the story, and that's how an ending is supposed to be or do. Good ending != Happy Ending.

 

 

- I repeat, we never ask for a happy ending, where there is ceremony, praise and such. But an ending is suppose to be a conclusion, it should wrap up the story. This is the main problem with ending that leave space for sequence, and not only KOTORII has this problem. I have seen game with good ending and still have room for sequence (BGII:SOA to BGII:TOB), but the ending of KOTORII is purely pathetic. I say the story is good, but the ending SUCKS. It begs for KOTORIII. I don't need a happy ending, but a good ending. It's just like drinking a fine class of cognac but swallow an ice block at the end.

 

 

- About saying anyone who say Bio > Obs is fan boy, I disagree. That's opinion and people has the right to state it. Sure you can see there are people prefer Obs > BIo, so you can conclude that they are Obs fan boys? No, we are players, we respect company that give us good game and has proved themselves with time that their game is worth our money (10 years!). I don't hate or dislike Obs, but they're new, so they will have to do a better job and keep doing it to impress me. KOTORII is good and as I said on my very first post, it's worth my 50$. But there is room for improvement and KOTORII is indeed has more bugs then an average game of its gerne. Trust/respect comes with time and effort, and before you can gain it, well....you know what I mean. And my last input for this is: I will only start respect Obs if they one day come up with a tittle that bear their own name.

 

 

-Don't get me wrong, I enjoy KOTORII, the fact is in just 1 week I play it through twice. But as I said, it does need improvement, and if KOTORIII is made by Obs and they plan on KOTORIV, they need to learn how to make a good ending while can still guarantee expansion.

 

 

- To Tanuvein: you can see that the exile doesn't reconize Bastila in T3's hologram, but he reconize her in Corriban, that's one. And there is a whole bunch of re-loop dialogue in KOTORII.

[Anach]

You guys are losing the plot somewhat. Its not the story, dialogue, characters or bugs we have a hassle with.

 

Its the fact that you spend time developing these characters, stories and missions, for it to all of a sudden come to a dead end. Not a cliff hanger, just a dead end. To the point of broken.

 

The whole HK droid, GOTO, the Exchange and 10 characters worth of story. Like G0-T0 and the little fella who are waiting to fight it out.

Or the relationships that never progress past certain dialogues, and leave the story dead.

The fact your team doesnt even come with you at the end, or have any part of it and the only difference between the dark and light is the little video of the escape or not.

 

Play the dark side, right through, as evil as you can and its even more obvious than it is for the light side.

 

There are little side stories you start to investigate as you go, like HK or the other droids that are meant to lead to the droid factory. The whole purpose of HK47 being in the game is for this plot.

 

Watching the verbal cat fights, then all of a sudden the progress stops and no one says anything else.

 

We dont uncover anymore of Madalore's story. It all falls appart just after the return to dantooine and the council, but there are many dead ends as you play through too.

[dex]

Ok can someone pls tell me wat the main plot for KOTOR2 is?

Why the Sith wants the PC dead? Why Keria wants to save him?

If the PC is a wound in the force, why than can he still use force powers?

If he is healed, than is he a threat to other force users?

 

I love the dark endings of PST and the FO series, I love the happy endings of the BG and KOTOR too. I do not mind whether the ending is happy or sad, it is about how well it is implemented. I find that the ending of KOTOR2 left alot to be desired.