Troika probably closing down

[Volourn]

"But then, and here comes the contradiction, you say that the combat ruins the role-playing. Since the combat and role-playing elements of the game are two separate parcels, one can't influence the other. Which means the only way to interpet that sentence is that the FPS combat which you dislike so much offsets the great role-playing, yielding an overall unsatisfying experience."

 

Huh? I never said the combat ruined the role-playing completely. You better read everything again. I guess 'ruins' is too harsh. Perhaps, 'hurts' is more appropriate.

 

 

"Which means the only way to interpet that sentence is that the FPS combat which you dislike so much offsets the great role-playing, yielding an overall unsatisfying experience."

 

Only trolls tell others what they experienced playing a game.

 

 

 

"And please don't ask me to stop trolling, you know I like it too much to stop."

 

 

[213374U]

"But then, and here comes the contradiction, you say that the combat ruins the role-playing. Since the combat and role-playing elements of the game are two separate parcels, one can't influence the other. Which means the only way to interpet that sentence is that the FPS combat which you dislike so much offsets the great role-playing, yielding an overall unsatisfying experience."

 

Huh? I never said the combat ruined the role-playing completely. You better read everything again. I guess 'ruins' is too harsh. Perhaps, 'hurts' is more appropriate.

 

 

"Which means the only way to interpet that sentence is that the FPS combat which you dislike so much offsets the great role-playing, yielding an overall unsatisfying experience."

 

Only trolls tell others what they experienced playing a game.

Which means you enjoyed BL, despite its flaws. Then we come to yet another contradiction. Your arguments for quoting BL as an example of a bad RPG in your first reply on this thread are... none, since you liked it.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Well the silver lining to this is that it serves as a warning signal to developers worldwide that cutting down on QA can have very serious consequences indeed. If we're REALLY lucky, it might even get some publishers to stop pushing studios into releasing games prematurely.

[Morgoth]

Well the silver lining to this is that it serves as a warning signal to developers worldwide that cutting down on QA can have very serious consequences indeed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hardly believe that the lack of QA was the demise of Troika.

 

If we're REALLY lucky, it might even get some publishers to stop pushing studios into releasing games prematurely.

No they won't. Only a respectable developer (like Bio) can accomplish a publish agreement where both sides are the winners. That means no rushing and no crappy quality, but still making profit in the end.

Troika wasn't in that fortune, because they never could or tried to improve their circumstance (especially management wise) to save some money and fund their own project, at least to a certain point, instead they gave the fate of their existence into publishers fundings completely.

In the end, it's logical. The software business is a binary matter, either you're a 1, or a 0.

That said, the Troika (Jason, Tim & Leon) are better off to work in a company as a lead and let the business stuff handle more experienced people, like the doctors, or Darh Feargie!

[Volourn]

"Which means you enjoyed BL, despite its flaws. Then we come to yet another contradiction. Your arguments for quoting BL as an example of a bad RPG in your first reply on this thread are... none, since you liked it."

 

Upi are pretending to be dumb. Youa re iether a good actor on the ent, or really are.

 

I was challenging the assertion that Troika tries to make "real" deep RPGs. The dungeonc rawling of TOEE,a nd the FPS combat of BL proves this isn't the case.

 

Keep up the solid trolling. It makes me horny.

[213374U]

I was challenging the assertion that Troika tries to make "real"  deep RPGs. The dungeonc rawling of TOEE,a nd the FPS combat of BL proves this isn't the case.

Again, you are comparing two things that have nothing to do with each other. The RPG can be 'real deep', and the combat may suck. Those two aren't mutually excluding.

 

 

Keep up the solid trolling. It makes me horny.

That is... disturbing. :ph34r:

[Volourn]

"Again, you are comparing two things that have nothing to do with each other. The RPG can be 'real deep', and the combat may suck. Those two aren't mutually excluding."

 

Wrong. Combat is very much a part of the role-playing experience.

 

 

"That is... disturbing."

 

Disturbing... yet... fascinating... and attratcive...

[taks]

Again, you are comparing two things that have nothing to do with each other. The RPG can be 'real deep', and the combat may suck. Those two aren't mutually excluding.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

while they may not be mutually exclusive, the "real deep" aspect is not present in troika games. vol isn't comparing two things that have nothing to do with each other, he's pointing out the primary focus of two games that don't have "real deep" rpg experiences.

 

taks

[Ellester]

I liked ToEE even with its flaws and no story, but it did have role-playing aspects within it, which I thought, were pretty cool (and surprising for a dungeon crawl). You could get married, have a homosexual relationship, have different starting points, join with either of the 4 element groups, you had the good/evil routes, and it had multiple ways to complete the game. You could have pretty radical game experiences when you replayed it because of the choices you could make. I also liked Arcanum. Never bought Bloodlines because I dislike the vampire, gothic junk. But I might still get it someday.

 

Anyways I agree it seemed like they were getting better with each release. Too bad the door shut on them before they could get a good title out.

 

Two things I agree on. With MC I agree Timmy was not a good businessman, also it was a sin that they never opened a forum to interact with their fans. Even when Troika did have a forum for their games on a third party site like Atari for ToEE, they hardly if almost never posted. Especially Timmy, I doubt he ever posted. Not a very friendly group with their fans. One exception was steve moret, he was the only good guy in Troika (when it came to ToEE, at least).

[Spider]

"Again, you are comparing two things that have nothing to do with each other. The RPG can be 'real deep', and the combat may suck. Those two aren't mutually excluding."

 

Wrong. Combat is very much a part of the role-playing experience.

 

Please define a "real deep" rpg. I have a possible reply to this but without knowing your definition of a deep RPG it'll be pointless.

[mkreku]

Wrong. Combat is very much a part of the role-playing experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, and Doom is almost an RPG because it has lots and lots of combat.

Clueless.

[Brannart]

I guess this means no Arcanum 2 eh? Well unless Sierra does it themselves

[NeverwinterKnight]

in light of this thread, which new obsidian employee should we be welcoming with open arms from troika? :D

[213374U]

Again, you are comparing two things that have nothing to do with each other. The RPG can be 'real deep', and the combat may suck. Those two aren't mutually excluding.

while they may not be mutually exclusive, the "real deep" aspect is not present in troika games. vol isn't comparing two things that have nothing to do with each other, he's pointing out the primary focus of two games that don't have "real deep" rpg experiences.

 

taks

No. The focus of BL was the role-playing. Proof of this is that you could avoid combat altogether for the better part of the game, except for the last third or so which sucks. If you say that BL focused in combat, I say you haven't actually played the game.

[Drakron]

in light of this thread, which new obsidian employee should we be welcoming with open arms from troika?  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My guess is none.

 

I remenber a Feargus interview were he said people left after FO2 on how he driven that development so I dont think ex-Troika ex-BIS would want him as a boss again.

[Brannart]

in light of this thread, which new obsidian employee should we be welcoming with open arms from troika?  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My guess is none.

 

I remenber a Feargus interview were he said people left after FO2 on how he driven that development so I dont think ex-Troika ex-BIS would want him as a boss again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Huh? Troika announced in that thread that one of their former employees was already working for Obsidian

[NeverwinterKnight]

My guess is none.

 

I remenber a Feargus interview were he said people left after FO2 on how he driven that development so I dont think ex-Troika ex-BIS would want him as a boss again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

uh...arent the majority of the obsidian staff guys that were under him before?

[Drakron]

I have no idea if that person was a former BIS employer or not and how he left BIS.

[Drakron]

uh...arent the majority of the obsidian staff guys that were under him before? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Diferent things ...

 

OE was formed because BIS and Interplay had their days counted, they left because they knew they would be unemployed in a few months.

 

Troika was founded by ex-BIS that left during BIS and Interplay golden years, I remenber that Feargus said on a interview they left because of how he forced FO2 development that lead people to leave BIS.

[Fairplay]

Troika staff posted on internet message boards when they were making Arcanum. They were very interactive. Maybe too much so.

[zer"0"]

Damn. Its true.

 

Good luck to all the ex-Troikans, may you find a brighter future.

[TentamusDarkblade]

Troika failed because of:

Poor management of finances - They put all their eggs in one basket when they started working solely on the technology for their PA engine instead of trying to land another title to pay the bills

 

Too much reliance on getting the FO3 license - After investing all the money to create the technology and then failing to get it made all that money invested a wasted go. They could have spun that into a different game except for the next item below.

 

Failing to make lasting relationships with publishers - After every title they shipped they tried to lay all the blame on the publishers. Now, nearly every other studio in the world gets screwed by their publishers but they restrain themselves from saying anything and pointing fingers. Troika couldn't do this, they had to point fingers and burn bridges with the publishers they worked with. When the FO3 license was out of their grasp, they had no publisher willing to give them a shot to make something with technology ALREADY CREATED AND PAID FOR. That really says something when a publisher won't invest in a game where most of the hard parts have already been done.

 

 

It's sad that they went under, but the fault lies on the shoulders of their managers and CEOs.

[Ellester]

I agree Troika always seemed to put the blame for their mistakes at the feet of the publishers. They never took responsibility for the shipped product themselves. I never liked that about Troika. Pretty cowardly, imo.

[~Di]

I agree Troika always seemed to put the blame for their mistakes at the feet of the publishers. They never took responsibility for the shipped product themselves. I never liked that about Troika. Pretty cowardly, imo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Troika did not make mistakes. They made "design decisions".

 

:D

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Troika did not make mistakes.  They made "design decisions". 

 

:D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>