Logan Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 I've been playing through KOTOR2 and am about 2/3 of the way done. In my opnion, and many others, the game just feels not polished. Many reviews and previews have spoke to the empty feeling if some parts of the game. I think the level advancement is way too fast, and the combat is soo easy its stupid. Basically, it feels like a rush job, deja vu anyone? IWD and IWD2 suffered from the same problem. In general BIS/obsidian design philosophy seems to be centered on a quick development cycle, rapid level advancement and lots of loot. Features such as a more detailed envirmonment, sidequests and plot are marginalized. In every case people have defended the developer by blaming the Publisher, as with TOEE. I just wish that Obsidian would either make the effort or be given the chance to develop a game that is not a rush job. KOTOR2 is a good game, it might have been great. Join me in weeping for all the great games killed by the practical constraints of game development... sweet jefferson, lost forever...
Darque Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 I think the people to "blame" in this case are the ones at Lucas Arts... not Obsidian "or" Black Isle..
Musopticon? Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 IWD1 was a rush job? How so? You didn't like the hack'n'slash-aspect of the game? If you don't know yet, it was sort of ment to be a D&D-Diablo-clone, not a BG-like CRPG-epic. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds
Drakron Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 No, IWD was a dungeon crawl game ... not a Diablo clone.
Musopticon? Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 Diablo= dungeon crawl. No? Maybe I used the term diablo-clone a bit loosely. Sorry for offending any IWD-fans. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds
Jumjalum Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 Heh, be careful where you point that thing. We now bring you live footage from the World Championship Staring Final.
Musopticon? Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 Well, I place all dungeon crawlers under the same category. Some of those are just a bit more intelligent than others. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds
Darque Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 Diablo= dungeon crawl. No? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No. Diablo is more of an action game.
Llyranor Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 Fools. Diablo is a full-blown RPG. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Sargallath Abraxium Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 Fools. Diablo is a full-blown RPG. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...someone needs ta lay off the Goofy Juice... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... A long, long time ago, but I can still remember, How the Trolling used to make me smile. And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance", And maybe we'd be happy for a while. But then Krackhead left and so did Klown; Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town. Bad news on the Front Page, BIOweenia said goodbye in a heated rage. I can't remember if I cried When I heard that TORN was recently fried, But sadness touched me deep inside, The day...Black Isle died. For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way
Logan Posted February 14, 2005 Author Posted February 14, 2005 IWD1 was a rush job? How so? You didn't like the hack'n'slash-aspect of the game? If you don't know yet, it was sort of ment to be a D&D-Diablo-clone, not a BG-like CRPG-epic. IWD was a rush job. My biggest peeve with IWD was the item icons, it starts out with unique icons for unique items, done in the same unique style as IWD artwork, later on all the powerful items use the BG +1 icon for that weapon, many share the same icon with other, supposedly, unique items. My guess is that the developers were using the BG icons as placeholders until artwork made the new icons, they just never had time for it, hence, a rush job. Also, IWD was way buggy on release, my first game was detroyed by bugs when an item kept raising my To Hit roles every time it was equiped, I ended up with permanent +15 to hit, I had to start over -no character editor was available or it failed to solve the problem. Last night I started KOTOR2 in "Hard" difficulty mode,. T3 got stuck and was unable to detonate a key door. For a while I thought I was permantly stuck -until I remembered to turn the difficulty down. I guess they did not test at Hard difficulty. Hence, a rush job.
Logan Posted February 14, 2005 Author Posted February 14, 2005 I think the people to "blame" in this case are the ones at Lucas Arts... not Obsidian "or" Black Isle.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To be quite honest, without access to the specific contract and agreements we cannot say who is to blame at all. The big difference over at Bioware for example, is that they don't seem to fall into the same trap, and the strategy of producing high quality games has paid off. Troika got a bad hand with ToEE, BIS was constantly undermined by Interplay, I just hope Obsidian takes a new path. Short development times lead to the dark side...
Darque Posted February 14, 2005 Posted February 14, 2005 Troika got a bad hand with ToEE, BIS was constantly undermined by Interplay, I just hope Obsidian takes a new path. Short development times lead to the dark side... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed... and Agreed...
Dranoel Posted February 14, 2005 Posted February 14, 2005 Talking of BIS and Troika. Anyone who has V:TMB just needs to check out the microphone stand in the Asylum. There might be a no flaming policy about other companies on this forum, yet employees of Troika do not seem to apply the same approach when making their games. I think the BIS and Interplay disintegration left many developers nursing a great deal of anger. I think you may all require counselling and I am happy to help for a considerable nominal fee of course! (perhaps it should instead be spelt "CONselling")
Jumjalum Posted February 14, 2005 Posted February 14, 2005 I don't have Vampire, what's at the microphone stand? We now bring you live footage from the World Championship Staring Final.
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted February 14, 2005 Posted February 14, 2005 I think the people to "blame" in this case are the ones at Lucas Arts... not Obsidian "or" Black Isle.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To be quite honest, without access to the specific contract and agreements we cannot say who is to blame at all. The big difference over at Bioware for example, is that they don't seem to fall into the same trap, and the strategy of producing high quality games has paid off. Troika got a bad hand with ToEE, BIS was constantly undermined by Interplay, I just hope Obsidian takes a new path. Short development times lead to the dark side... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> NWN upon release was the worst piece of software I had ever been near. It was crap, BG 2 wasn't exactly stable either. There is no difference between any of them(bioware, trokia, BIS, Obsidian), some folks run into bugs some don't. It's the way it goes. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me
Ellester Posted February 14, 2005 Posted February 14, 2005 To be quite honest, without access to the specific contract and agreements we cannot say who is to blame at all. The big difference over at Bioware for example, is that they don't seem to fall into the same trap, and the strategy of producing high quality games has paid off. Troika got a bad hand with ToEE, BIS was constantly undermined by Interplay, I just hope Obsidian takes a new path. Short development times lead to the dark side... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Interesting, I don Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson
Volourn Posted February 14, 2005 Posted February 14, 2005 "IWD was a rush job." No, it wasn't. "Also look at the Baldurdash file fix for BG2. there DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Ellester Posted February 14, 2005 Posted February 14, 2005 Meh. Such horrible bugs that I never saw/noticed them in my game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But bugs nevertheless volourn. We Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson
Volourn Posted February 14, 2005 Posted February 14, 2005 "But bugs nevertheless volourn. We DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Ellester Posted February 14, 2005 Posted February 14, 2005 Well, that Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson
Volourn Posted February 14, 2005 Posted February 14, 2005 "I think you would agree with me that this statement doesn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Ellester Posted February 14, 2005 Posted February 14, 2005 First off, I disagree with your statement that Dungeon Siege deserved it Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson
Logan Posted February 15, 2005 Author Posted February 15, 2005 "IWD was a rush job." No, it wasn't. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I guess... Sure the development cycle was not as short as HoW, IWD2, or KOTOR2. But portions of the game felt unfinished. I listed some examples above, if you disagree then argue your point. I'll admit that I was dissapointed in the boring endless battles of IWD, I'd expected BG without the plot focusing on one main character, ie full party selection. Less disneyesque Bioware crap and a more mature BIS style, ala planescape. IWD was fine, but the overwhelming focus on combat with some uninspiring level design left it wanting.
EUIX Posted February 15, 2005 Posted February 15, 2005 If you will recall when Fallout 2 first came out it was extremely buggy. And the patch made all your save games useless and you had to start from the beginning. There was much bitching and growning but nobody denies that Fallout 2 was a classic. "For ourselves, we shall not trouble you with specious pretences- either of how we have a right to our empire because we overthrew the Mede, or are now attacking you because of wrong that you have done us- and make a long speech which would not be believed; and in return we hope that you, instead of thinking to influence us by saying that you did not join the Lacedaemonians, although their colonists, or that you have done us no wrong, will aim at what is feasible, holding in view the real sentiments of us both; since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."
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