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Sweet, sweet Torment


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#41
Cantousent

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head permanently wedged up his own arse.... hahaha. Do you people stay awake at night thinking up this stuff?!?

At any rate, PS:T is the greatest achievement in a CRPG to date.

#42
Ace

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While the combat system in PS:T might not technically be great, it had style.

"Fear Ravel's anger!"
*Fire and ice spell goes off*
"The Karach sings true."

*tears come to the eyes*

#43
Volourn

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"At any rate, PS:T is the greatest achievement in a CRPG to date."

No.

#44
Ivan the Terrible

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No.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yes.

#45
Percival

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No.

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Yes.

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Sorry, but Volourn is correct. Great amounts of text alone doesnt make a game the greatest achievement.

#46
Ivan the Terrible

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Great amounts of text alone doesnt make a game the greatest achievement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


But a storyline which transcends the endlessly boring 'there's a big bad guy trying to destroy a country/world/galaxy! Go kill him!' does. Especially one as well-designed as Torment.

#47
Phosphor

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Sorry, but Volourn is correct. Great amounts of text alone doesnt make a game the greatest achievement.

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True. If great amounts of text alone made something a great achievment, these boards would have to be included in the canon of great literary works.
It's the story, characters and unfolding of events contained and delivered by that great amount of text that matter, and in the case of Torment that text did an excellent job in presenting a gripping, intriguing and fairly unique (for cRPGs) story and character play experience.
Does that make it the greatest game ever? No, a great game needs more than a story, and while Torment had a great story, the gameplay mechanics were lacking. Still, it's one of the better games I've played and is the closest to a "more than a video game" experience I've had in playing computer games.

#48
Sargallath Abraxium

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head permanently wedged up his own arse.... hahaha.  Do you people stay awake at night thinking up this stuff?!?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>




...it comes naturally, really...'specially when discussin' Volourn... :p



Sorry, but Volourn is correct. Great amounts of text alone doesnt make a game the greatest achievement.



...no, it doesna; but an incredibly grippin' story that transcends the simple "kill the bad guy" theme an' strikes a chord o' heart-felt sentiment bound only by what one sees as the answers ta the eternal questions o' "what is mortality", "what makes us who we are" an' "what can change the nature of a man" combined wit' incredible characters an' an amazin' journey through the Planes all in the name o' findin' yerself does...PS:T delivered the complete package; no cRPG before or since can make that claim... :thumbsup:


...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...
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#49
deganawida

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Good reply, Sargie. :thumbsup:

#50
Volourn

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"But a storyline which transcends the endlessly boring 'there's a big bad guy trying to destroy a country/world/galaxy! Go kill him!' does. Especially one as well-designed as Torment."

Yeah. Because, the amnesiac plot is sooooooooooooooo much more special and unique. R00fles!


"PS:T delivered the complete package;"

It's too bad you don't know what 'complete package' means. PST has a great story and great characters; but that does not make the package complete. Afterall, a complete package RPG would be one with great story, characters, combat, freedom, great character creation and ehancement, etc., etc.

Only the Bgs, and FOS offer this. They win. Game over.

They are the TRUE complete packages.

#51
draakh_kimera

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Um, BG series didn't have great freedom...Only game with anything close to "freedom" was FO series.

#52
Ivan the Terrible

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Yeah. Because, the amnesiac plot is sooooooooooooooo much more special and unique. R00fles!


The 'Amnesiac' plot? No.

The
Spoiler
plot? Funny thing, but that isn't nearly as common.

#53
Volourn

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"Um, BG series didn't have great freedom...Only game with anything close to "freedom" was FO series. "

In the PC RPG genre; it sure does have 'great' freedom. Obviously, FO has even more.


"The 'Amnesiac' plot? "

Um. Nice try; but PST's plot is the 'Amnsiac plot'. Afterall, that's the entire set up for the PC to care about about the game since you wake in the morgue with AMNESIA and your goal is to remember and.or find out what happened to your memory.

Tsk, tsk.

#54
Judge Hades

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Well, to be honest PS:T is the first CRPG that I have played that uses the Amnesiac Plot and does a pretty good job of it. I also have to agree with VOlourn that PS:T is not the complete package. Far from it. FOs and to a lesser extent the BG series does a good job of it. PS:T is one of the best CRPGs ever made, but let us not be blind to its many faults.

#55
Ivan the Terrible

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Um. Nice try; but PST's plot is the 'Amnsiac plot'. Afterall, that's the entire set up for the PC to care about about the game since you wake in the morgue with AMNESIA and your goal is to remember and.or find out what happened to your memory.

Tsk, tsk.

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You miss my point. Stripped to their basics, the plotlines of any story are going to have been done many times before. The issue is how unique and interesting the execution is.

In that sense, most RPGs don't ever break beyond the 'bad guy wants to do bad things' barrier; Sarevok wants to slaughter lots and lots of people so he can become a God. Irenicus wants to slaughter everybody in his old homeland for preventing him from becoming a God, and also to give becoming a God another try. Mellissan wants to kill all the Bhaalspawn so she can become a God (notice a trend?)

I wish I could tell you what the villains in NWN wanted, but I got bored around Chapter 3 and quit playing. Something about ancient lizard people conquering the world. I wouldn't be surprised if some villain or another was planning to use the slaughter of everyone in Neverwinter to become a God. Or something.

The Fallouts are the only ones which comes close to breaking the barrier....but even there, with objectives you can kinda sorta see how someone might believe in, the objective is pointlessly genocidal and obviously 'bad.'

Of them all, the only one which transcends the tired cliche is Torment. You can point to the amnesiac thing all you like, but beyond the set-up virtually everything in Torment is outside of your typical fare....and executed brilliantly, I might add.

#56
Ivan the Terrible

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I also have to agree with VOlourn that PS:T is not the complete package.  Far from it.  FOs and to a lesser extent the BG series does a good job of it.  PS:T is one of the best CRPGs ever made, but let us not be blind to its many faults.

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I agree as well, and Torment is definetely not 'the complete package'; it just does one thing so well that I overlook the flaws and place it at the top of my list of favorite RPGS. :)

#57
Zoq-Fot-Pik

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Um. Nice try; but PST's plot is the 'Amnsiac plot'. Afterall, that's the entire set up for the PC to care about about the game since you wake in the morgue with AMNESIA and your goal is to remember and.or find out what happened to your memory.

Tsk, tsk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You miss my point. Stripped to their basics, the plotlines of any story are going to have been done many times before. The issue is how unique and interesting the execution is.

In that sense, most RPGs don't ever break beyond the 'bad guy wants to do bad things' barrier; Sarevok wants to slaughter lots and lots of people so he can become a God. Irenicus wants to slaughter everybody in his old homeland for preventing him from becoming a God, and also to give becoming a God another try. Mellissan wants to kill all the Bhaalspawn so she can become a God (notice a trend?)

I wish I could tell you what the villains in NWN wanted, but I got bored around Chapter 3 and quit playing. Something about ancient lizard people conquering the world. I wouldn't be surprised if some villain or another was planning to use the slaughter of everyone in Neverwinter to become a God. Or something.

The Fallouts are the only ones which comes close to breaking the barrier....but even there, with objectives you can kinda sorta see how someone might believe in, the objective is pointlessly genocidal and obviously 'bad.'

Of them all, the only one which transcends the tired cliche is Torment. You can point to the amnesiac thing all you like, but beyond the set-up virtually everything in Torment is outside of your typical fare....and executed brilliantly, I might add.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Fot: Posted Image

#58
Judge Hades

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Fot, what does a random picture of some unknown basketball player has to do with anything? :)

#59
Volourn

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"Stripped to their basics, the plotlines of any story"

Um.. PST's plot is not just stripped down; it's plot is about amnesia. Without it; you pretty much got no story.


"Sarevok wants to slaughter lots and lots of people so he can become a God."

That's not BG's real story. It's story is discovering your character's roots and trying to find out why someone wants you dead. BG's story is not about Sarevok; it's about you. However, your version is used by those who want to make Bg's story look weak when it isn't.


"Irenicus wants to slaughter everybody in his old homeland for preventing him from becoming a God, and also to give becoming a God another try."

No. That's not BG2's story. BG2's story is the continued journey of the PC in discovering his palce and the world and Irenicus - while awesomely well done - is the means to the end in that regard. Why do you think the dreams equences in BG2 evolved around you and Irenicus talking about your palce in the world. BG2 story was never about Irencius. He was a major aprt of your story; but the story was not his. People who say it tend to be the ones who like BG2; are trying to twist BG2's story in't soemthing as basic as 'go kill big baddy'. Not cool.


"Mellissan wants to kill all the Bhaalspawn so she can become a God (notice a trend?) "

Melissan was lame. I enjoyed TOB in spite of its main story. I agree though its story was about stopping Meslissan hence its being the weakest of the BGs in terms of main story.


"I wish I could tell you what the villains in NWN wanted, but I got bored around Chapter 3 and quit playing. Something about ancient lizard people conquering the world. I wouldn't be surprised if some villain or another was planning to use the slaughter of everyone in Neverwinter to become a God. Or something. "

Only if you listened to fools. NWN's story is about a former power wanting what they feel is theirs back. It's not really about conquering others; but about getting abck what was lost and conquering in the villains' mind was the best way to a ccomplish this. Still, the OC's story was weakened since the focus - like TOB (though TOB still did a decent job) - wasn't on the PC as much as it should be.


"You can point to the amnesiac thing all you like, but beyond the set-up"

Um. Your character's amnesia in PST is more than just a set up of the story; it *is* the story.


"The Fallouts are the only ones which comes close to breaking the barrier....but even there, with objectives you can kinda sorta see how someone might believe in, the objective is pointlessly genocidal and obviously 'bad.' "

Nah. Both Fos were about dealing with the Big bad or in FO1 also possibly joining them. however, no one really claims that FO's story is its best part or is really special. Though; it's still well done mostly.

#60
Zoq-Fot-Pik

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stuff

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Zoq: Do you realize that you justified BG's and NWN's stories the same way Ivan did PS:T's?




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