what an excellent sequel

[Obireel Y Doncha]

I know a lot of you have been in here longerand are through priasing KOTOR2, but I finally stated playing KOTOR2 last week and wanted to get in my two cents.

 

Obisidian's done a great job building the great foundation Bioware laid with KOTOR.

More subtlety in light side/dark side choices, NPC development, the expanded workbench is a great touch, expanded robes selection, I could go on.

 

But I won't. Just a small example: While I play strictly lightsided, early on during my MOTOR career I'd often ransack empty apartments in Taris for gear. I thought it was weird you don't get Darkside points for theft. As I got better at the game I stopped burglarizing and rationalized my earlier thefts as a necessity as I learned the game.

 

So in KOTOR2 I hit the residential section of The Citadel and see an untended footlocker in the first apartment I walk into. "Welllll, I am just learning the game," I rationalized as I opened the locker, "and in game terms, this really isn't a Darkside act."

 

But then some guy rushed into the apartment yelling: "Hey! What do you think you're doing! You can just let yourself into my apartment and take what you want!"

 

I lost it, and I realized that Obsidian was taking this job very seriously.

[Dead Skin Mask]

How can you say it's an excellent sequel if you haven't even beaten the game once? That

[NeverwinterKnight]

But I won't. Just a small example: While I play strictly lightsided, early on during my MOTOR career I'd often ransack empty apartments in Taris for gear. I thought it was weird you don't get Darkside points for theft. As I got better at the game I stopped burglarizing and rationalized my earlier thefts as a necessity as I learned the game.

 

So in KOTOR2 I hit the residential section of The Citadel and see an untended footlocker in the first apartment I walk into. "Welllll, I am just learning the game," I rationalized as I opened the locker, "and in game terms, this really isn't a Darkside act."

 

But then some guy rushed into the apartment yelling: "Hey! What do you think you're doing! You can just let yourself into my apartment and take what you want!"

 

I lost it, and I realized that Obsidian was taking this job very seriously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

that just happened to be coincidence. thats the only incident where looting someones appartment will bring their wrath. (that i can recall).

[Epiphany]

He hasn't gotten to the lazy developement part of the game yet...

[kotorfan_yadilloh]

He hasn't gotten to the lazy developement part of the game yet...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, you can tell they rushed it little at the end, but considering time of production to release date these guys at Obsidian put in a lot of work into the game in a short time.

Personally, I thing they blew the first Kotor out of the water. The storyline was great. It felt more epic, more like the movies.

[Epiphany]

blasphemy

 

KOTOR 2 pales in comparison to the first game...

[NeverwinterKnight]

blasphemy

 

KOTOR 2 pales in comparison to the first game...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

the first game wasnt as "great" as you make it out to be either.

 

one of your biggest beefs (or atleast one of the ones i think ive seen you mention, i get you confused with jedimasterrevan and dr cloak) is the easy combat. kotor1 had that too.

[Mars]

yeah, you try making a sequel to a critically acclaimed game, in just over a year!!

[Bokishi]

4 more months in the development chamber would have made this a more worthy sequal.

[HK-74]

He hasn't gotten to the lazy developement part of the game yet...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are quite a bitter little teenybopper, aren't you?

 

Obsidian should be commended for doing so well in such a short time with only a handful of staff. As a mesure of comparison, look at how many people worked on Fable and how long they had.

[Epiphany]

blasphemy

 

KOTOR 2 pales in comparison to the first game...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

the first game wasnt as "great" as you make it out to be either.

 

one of your biggest beefs (or atleast one of the ones i think ive seen you mention, i get you confused with jedimasterrevan and dr cloak) is the easy combat. kotor1 had that too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've never once stated that KOTOR was the be all to end all. Perhaps it's a misunderstanding when I say KOTOR 2 pales in comparison, since technically, it pales in comparison to a slightly above average game.

 

But, your comment about combat, I'll say this:

 

In KOTOR, the enemy AI was far superior to that in KOTOR 2 (again, meaning that KOTOR AI wasn't the greatest thing ever, but is still far superior). Sith lords, apprentices and whatnot actually USED a lot of force powers on you and your party. That alone created a new element during combat that is completely absent from this game, save 2 specific encounters.

 

On top of that, KOTOR wasn't an utter monty hall game. That also created a new element in combat that made an already substandard AI even easier to combat since you are so loaded with badass equipment.

 

You are quite a bitter little teenybopper, aren't you?

 

Obsidian should be commended for doing so well in such a short time with only a handful of staff. As a mesure of comparison, look at how many people worked on Fable and how long they had.

 

We aren't talking about Fable here. We are talking about KOTOR 2...

 

They had a year to work on story and the functionality of that within the game. The engine was already done, the skills, feats and force powers were already finished. The models were done, the weapons were done and the animations were done.

 

Now, it's not my fault, they chose to focus on new animations and new some character models instead of fleshing out the critical components of any RPG. They had a year, and they didn't use it wisely, they upgraded pointless activities like swoop racing instead of giving us a little more "meat" at the end. Several parts of the game feel underdeveloped, such as the entire "get pulled along from place to place" ending. They somehow, took certain force powers that worked in the first game, and broke their functionality in the second game.

[HK-74]

You are quite a bitter little teenybopper, aren't you?

 

Obsidian should be commended for doing so well in such a short time with only a handful of staff. As a mesure of comparison, look at how many people worked on Fable and how long they had.

 

We aren't talking about Fable here. We are talking about KOTOR 2...

 

They had a year to work on story and the functionality of that within the game. The engine was already done, the skills, feats and force powers were already finished. The models were done, the weapons were done and the animations were done.

 

Now, it's not my fault, they chose to focus on new animations and new some character models instead of fleshing out the critical components of any RPG. They had a year, and they didn't use it wisely, they upgraded pointless activities like swoop racing instead of giving us a little more "meat" at the end. Several parts of the game feel underdeveloped, such as the entire "get pulled along from place to place" ending. They somehow, took certain force powers that worked in the first game, and broke their functionality in the second game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[ Mocking Imitation: ] We aren't talking about Kotor 1 here. We're talking about Kotor 2...

 

If they'd kept the original characters, would you be any happier? I doubt it. You'd still be complaining because the game didn't match whatever silly expectations YOU had set for it. I suppose you're oh-so-right though, they didn't bother to flesh out any of the critical components of the RPG, I mean, it's hardly as though they created a new workbench, med lab, feats, powers and weapons so that you could modify your character more. And I guess they didn't put any time or effort into crafting good characters for you to interact with or a complex story to play through, either. And it's hardly as though they added a whole new influence system to enhance your interaction with your crew, or built new worlds for you to explore. God, what did they do with all that time? I bet they just sat around eating pizza and pulling their meat, what with not having any sort of slavemaster like Lucasarts watching over them.

 

After all, how can they ever possibly explain a game which was built in a year showing signs of underdevelopment? They did have whole pre-made engine to work with, too! And as everyone knows, the engine is like 90% of the dev time all on it's own, once you've got the engine you're just weeks away from releasing your masterpiece.

 

You are SO right.

[Epiphany]

[ Mocking Imitation: ] We aren't talking about Kotor 1 here. We're talking about Kotor 2...

 

Personally, I thing they blew the first Kotor out of the water.

 

Use your brain please? Stop posting gibberish.

 

If they'd kept the original characters, would you be any happier? I doubt it. You'd still be complaining because the game didn't match whatever silly expectations YOU had set for it.

 

This is the typical fanboy cop out question. Meaning, you have no substantial arguement with which you can fall back on.

 

I suppose you're oh-so-right though, they didn't bother to flesh out any of the critical components of the RPG, I mean, it's hardly as though they created a new workbench, med lab, feats, powers and weapons so that you could modify your character more.

 

All the modification in the world can't cover the fact that:

a) the workbench system in this game is pointless, as you find/buy everything you can build

b) the workbench system does not create a game balance

c) the new feats, while interesting, do not make up for the lack of balance, nor the massive holes left in the story

d) the new feats, while interesting, do not account for the areas left out of the game, because they decided to focus on less important things (such as the workbench, med lab, feats, powers and weapons so that you could modify your character more)

e) not only did they add new force powers, but they glitched some that worked fine in the first game

f) not only did they add new force powers, but they added some that have no practical use

g) the weapons added are of little consiquence, as the weapons you will most likely use are copies of ones in the previous game

 

But yes, modifying your character is so much more important than having some sense of enemy AI, or a story with a little more thought in the end, or even an ending worth talking about. Hell, it's more important than getting a reasonable influence system put into place, rather than the halfassed version we ended up getting. Perhaps all those new additions you mentioned were far more important than sinking those man hours into bug/glitch finding. Cause many of them are so obvious the only way you couldn't see/find them is if you didn't play the game.

 

And I guess they didn't put any time or effort into crafting good characters for you to interact with or a complex story to play through, either.

 

You assume so much, it really does make an ass out of you. When you can point out where I said they didn't put effort into character creation, then you can win.

 

The story is hardly complex, as it has lose ends that they obviously didn't have the time to flesh out, since they spent unnecessary time on new animations, broken force powers, changing feats to make them even more powerful and unbalanced, and modifying the level progression so that there is no difference between the various jedi classes. They also bugged the marauders fury.

 

And it's hardly as though they added a whole new influence system to enhance your interaction with your crew,

 

An influence system that makes no sense, since you, the player have no influence over the NPC's, rather, they have the influence control over you. You can't lie to them, you can't manipulate them, the only choice you have, in a roleplaying sense, is to tell the truth, ALWAYS. That doesn't leave a lot of room to play that manipulative sith lord, now does it? Get a clue, sherlock.

 

or built new worlds for you to explore.

 

lol Yeah, you can conclude from my post that I said they did nothing on this game. Again, you draw so many assumptions that the ass in you just leaps from your post.

 

God, what did they do with all that time?

 

They made a game that could have been much better had their efforts been more focused.

 

I bet they just sat around eating pizza and pulling their meat, what with not having any sort of slavemaster like Lucasarts watching over them.

 

What a tool

 

After all, how can they ever possibly explain a game which was built in a year showing signs of underdevelopment? They did have whole pre-made engine to work with, too! And as everyone knows, the engine is like 90% of the dev time all on it's own, once you've got the engine you're just weeks away from releasing your masterpiece.

 

You are SO right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

WTF are you talking about... Do you have any sense of logic in your arguement, or are they all just baseless conclusions drummed up in your head?

 

If you understood game developement, then you would know that building an engine is largely time consuming. When given an engine that is workable, and knowing you have a year to work on said game... Efforts should be put into priorities, such as, fleshing out the story, giving gamers a lot of explorable content. Not sacrificing the last 1/3 of the game for the sake of new animations, character models, useless additional force powers, changing feats to make them even more powerful, removing a semi-decent AI from force tuned enemies, sinking resources into changing the swoop racing game, changing the workbench system, and then not allowing you to build anything unique, therefore, showing that it's a waste, etc...

 

If you'd like to try again, feel free.

[jaguars4ever]

what an excellent sequel

 

I always love a good joke. ^_^

[HK-74]

If you understood game developement, then you would know that building an engine is largely time consuming.  When given an engine that is workable, and knowing you have a year to work on said game...  Efforts should be put into priorities, such as, fleshing out the story, giving gamers a lot of explorable content.  Not sacrificing the last 1/3 of the game for the sake of new animations, character models, useless additional force powers, changing feats to make them even more powerful, removing a semi-decent AI from force tuned enemies, sinking resources into changing the swoop racing game, changing the workbench system, and then not allowing you to build anything unique, therefore, showing that it's a waste, etc...

 

If you'd like to try again, feel free.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd love to.

 

Please do continue to lecture on the process of game development, and quality assurance, because it's been ever-so enlightening so far. For your information, I believe you'll find that QA is a continuous process which runs alongside development from the initial builds onwards. In this particular case Lucasarts assisted in the testing during the final stages of production, or so I've read, which would suggest that they feel that the finished product was of an appropriate quality come deadline day, or they wouldn't have allowed the game to be released. As it stands, there does seem to be a few little glitches, mainly graphical, in the game which is standard these days - and always was, to tell the truth. If it's a case of meeting a production deadline or obsessing over tiny unimportant glitches then the deadline is always going to win.

 

As for the engine itself, it's hardly as though Obsidian didn't have to do any work on it. The increased number of character models per area, the fewer instances of slowdown, the faster loading times are all testament to the fact that Obsidian, like any other developer, was working with the engine throughout development.

 

 

As for what Obsidian did spend their time working on, those things were their choices. No-one's asking you to like the advancements in the various aspects of developing your character, and whether you personally see the value in them is irrelevant - even to your own argument.

 

You also said this: "Efforts should be put into priorities, such as, fleshing out the story, giving gamers a lot of explorable content." Is it even possible to deny that you were given plenty of explorable content? Perhaps you would like to define what you meant by that term, as the entire game is "explorable content." I also find it ridiculous that you would claim that the story was not adequately fleshed out, given that so many people seem confused about precisely what is going on in the game even after they've completed it. You're given reams of information, from numerous sources, relating to the ongoing story and back-story, all of which has clearly been given much thought.

 

 

Frankly, it seems that most of your complaints are based on your opinion, rather than any actual factual proveable problem. The one exception that I'll grant you is the lack of balance (in terms of difficulty/learning curve) as it is very possible to become horrendously powerful by the end of the game - but if you're using that as a comparison to disparage the sequel, perhaps you should play the original Kotor again and see if you don't have the same complaint.

[Epiphany]

As it stands, there does seem to be a few little glitches, mainly graphical

 

I wanted to stop reading here, because at this point I knew you were clueless...

 

but I forced myself to continue until I read the following

 

the fewer instances of slowdown, th

 

Which truely made me realize you had no idea what you were talking about.

[Dead Skin Mask]

God I freakin hate fan boys. *looks in HK 74's direction* "

 

Cheers!

[Obireel Y Doncha]

How can you say it's an excellent sequel if you haven't even beaten the game once? That

[Obireel Y Doncha]

But I won't. Just a small example: While I play strictly lightsided, early on during my MOTOR career I'd often ransack empty apartments in Taris for gear. I thought it was weird you don't get Darkside points for theft. As I got better at the game I stopped burglarizing and rationalized my earlier thefts as a necessity as I learned the game.

 

So in KOTOR2 I hit the residential section of The Citadel and see an untended footlocker in the first apartment I walk into. "Welllll, I am just learning the game," I rationalized as I opened the locker, "and in game terms, this really isn't a Darkside act."

 

But then some guy rushed into the apartment yelling: "Hey! What do you think you're doing! You can just let yourself into my apartment and take what you want!"

 

I lost it, and I realized that Obsidian was taking this job very seriously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

that just happened to be coincidence. thats the only incident where looting someones appartment will bring their wrath. (that i can recall).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There are no coincidences

[Obireel Y Doncha]

As it stands, there does seem to be a few little glitches, mainly graphical

 

I wanted to stop reading here, because at this point I knew you were clueless...

 

but I forced myself to continue until I read the following

 

the fewer instances of slowdown, th

 

Which truely made me realize you had no idea what you were talking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe your XBox needs replacing. I only crashed once. Sorry 'bout your luck.

[Obireel Y Doncha]

Yeah, you can tell they rushed it little at the end, but considering time of production to release date these guys at Obsidian put in a lot of work into the game in a short time.

Personally, I thing they blew the first Kotor out of the water.  The storyline was great. It felt more epic, more like the movies.

 

Wow! Somebody in here who doesn't hate KOTOR or me for saying I liked it a lot!

 

I wouldn't say 2 blew 1 outta the water (yeah, l'il nitpickers, I'm a Bioware fanboy too), but I think it was a good step forward. Both games are, IMO, better than most if not all of the movies so far and I think Obsidian did a good job responding to KOTOR user comments in making 2 an improvement over 1 in most respects.

 

I didn't get much mileage outta the Lab Station playing in "Normal" mode, but I used the workbench a lot and really liked the expanded opportunities to upgrade equipment and gear and make the upgrades.

 

I liked the expanded roster of weapons, equipment, armor and robes. I found myself switching out gear a lot to face different situations in the game, one of the things us ol' KOTOR fans called for. I realize it upset some poeple no end, but I actually liked that much of the old armor and gear from KOTOR was still here. It seems to kinda make sense since only five years had passed.

 

I coulda got by with fewer NPCs in the team. In KOTOR I felt like you (the player, not The Exile) got to know your crew better, maybe cuz KOTOR was (or seemed) longer and maybe cuz in KOTOR2 so much of your time is dominated by Kreia. On my second pass through I'm seeing a bunch more dialog options open up, so I might be mistaken here.

 

Not to rag about Kreia. The role she played in the game, as The Exiles teacher and someone to explain (the developers' read on) The Force was maybe the single best part of the game.

 

On "Normal" setting and having played KOTOR umpteen times, the game is easy to beat with little more than Force Wave, the inventory screen and a bunch a med pacs. Even on "Difficult" a lot of the game has been a cakewalk, but there have been some really tough fights.

 

At least one of them I was able to win only be taking advantage of enemy AI. On Telos when you're raiding the mercenary camp it took every med pac and stim I had to beat the first four defenders but then I was able to rush by the other six soldiers on the ground and up the ramp to take out the two mercs up on the platform. From there you could take your sweet time creeping down to pick off the remaining mercs piecemeal. (I think the game must assign enemies to "rooms" they will not leave unless they're in pursuit, and all these guys were set at "ranged" so there was very little in the way of pursuit) If that field was divided up into rooms graphically it wouldn't have been so glaring, but when you can clearly see your enemy who can clearly see you, their failure to rush the platform en masse seemed kinda faky.

[Obireel Y Doncha]

God I freakin hate fan boys. *looks in HK 74's direction*  "

 

Cheers!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And I hate mealy-mouthed little jackasses who feel some need to turn every exchange into a series of insults and daunts.

 

So I guess we're even.

 

Ba hahah hahhaha!

[bodrock]

Yeah, you can tell they rushed it little at the end, but considering time of production to release date these guys at Obsidian put in a lot of work into the game in a short time.

Personally, I thing they blew the first Kotor out of the water.  The storyline was great. It felt more epic, more like the movies.

 

Wow! Somebody in here who doesn't hate KOTOR or me for saying I liked it a lot!

 

I wouldn't say 2 blew 1 outta the water (yeah, l'il nitpickers, I'm a Bioware fanboy too), but I think it was a good step forward. Both games are, IMO, better than most if not all of the movies so far and I think Obsidian did a good job responding to KOTOR user comments in making 2 an improvement over 1 in most respects.

 

I didn't get much mileage outta the Lab Station playing in "Normal" mode, but I used the workbench a lot and really liked the expanded opportunities to upgrade equipment and gear and make the upgrades.

 

I liked the expanded roster of weapons, equipment, armor and robes. I found myself switching out gear a lot to face different situations in the game, one of the things us ol' KOTOR fans called for. I realize it upset some poeple no end, but I actually liked that much of the old armor and gear from KOTOR was still here. It seems to kinda make sense since only five years had passed.

 

I coulda got by with fewer NPCs in the team. In KOTOR I felt like you (the player, not The Exile) got to know your crew better, maybe cuz KOTOR was (or seemed) longer and maybe cuz in KOTOR2 so much of your time is dominated by Kreia. On my second pass through I'm seeing a bunch more dialog options open up, so I might be mistaken here.

 

Not to rag about Kreia. The role she played in the game, as The Exiles teacher and someone to explain (the developers' read on) The Force was maybe the single best part of the game.

 

On "Normal" setting and having played KOTOR umpteen times, the game is easy to beat with little more than Force Wave, the inventory screen and a bunch a med pacs. Even on "Difficult" a lot of the game has been a cakewalk, but there have been some really tough fights.

 

At least one of them I was able to win only be taking advantage of enemy AI. On Telos when you're raiding the mercenary camp it took every med pac and stim I had to beat the first four defenders but then I was able to rush by the other six soldiers on the ground and up the ramp to take out the two mercs up on the platform. From there you could take your sweet time creeping down to pick off the remaining mercs piecemeal. (I think the game must assign enemies to "rooms" they will not leave unless they're in pursuit, and all these guys were set at "ranged" so there was very little in the way of pursuit) If that field was divided up into rooms graphically it wouldn't have been so glaring, but when you can clearly see your enemy who can clearly see you, their failure to rush the platform en masse seemed kinda faky.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm with ya, man. I've been playing 'Difficult' from the get-go, and occasionally there are those tough fights were my consular will be the last woman standing (or Atton!). It's still overall an easy game, but the combat is always fun. I don't just spam the force storm all day, though, but enjoy using the new stuff, etc. I'm not playing to see the ending or to simply beat the game -- it was always getting lost in the experience of being the Exile.

 

I'm on my second playthrough and still enjoying it as if it were the first time -- mainly because there are so many party-members to get to know, that it's almost impossible to know everything about them, unless you have a guide or check an FAQ.

 

I feel this sequel is a bit better than the original as well, and see them both as far above average -- they're my two favorite RPGs this generation, easily.

[Obireel Y Doncha]

... occasionally there are those tough fights were my consular will be the last woman standing (or Atton!).  ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Poor Atton! On that fight on Telos, I got The Exhile and Atton killed right away by those first four mercs, and I barely knicked one of them. I ran Bao Dur around the cliff where you come in to lay down a minefield to lure the mercs into (it actually worked on a couple of 'em).

 

Anyway, Atton kept getting up and getting blasted back down again while Bao Dur was squirreling around. It helped (Bao Dur would come around the corner and get in a few shots at the mercs while they were busy re-killing Atton) but I was, like, "Man, no wonder he's a deserter!"

[bodrock]

nice!

 

yeah, When all else fails, I always fallback, pump with stims, and start lobbing grenades, and/or run-n-gun -- I always keep a decent arsenal!