It's not just people, Bush hates all living things

[kumquatq3]

Bush pushes through new rules for national forests

 

Link to the story

 

Choice cuts:

 

The new rules give economic activity equal priority with preserving the ecological health of the forests in making management decisions and in potentially liberalizing caps on how much timber can be taken from a forest.

 

The government will no longer require that its managers prepare an environmental impact analysis with each forest's management plan, or use numerical counts to ensure there are "viable populations" of fish and wildlife. The changes will reduce the number of required scientific reports and ask federal officials to focus on a forest's overall health, rather than the fate of individual species, when evaluating how best to protect local plants and animals.

 

But one guy says it's not all that bad:

 

"This will get the Forest Service caring about the land and caring about the people, instead of caring about the process and serving the bureaucracy,"

 

 

Hey, sounds pretty good. I guess there isn't anything to wor.....hey, waiddaminute... who is this guy????

 

Chris West, vice president of the American Forest Resource Council.....who represents lumber and paper companies as well as landowners in 13 western states.

 

DAMN IT!

[KOTORFanactic]

Everytime you make a new poll, the terrorists win.

Everytime you vote Bush, the Enviromentalists Lose!

 

As a certified nature lover, I have to say

NWJIADBILAHNJKADBYUADBNUAYBDANJDIBYIOADBUIPADBVYDAAIDBADYIOB (unintelligible profanity)

 

He doesn't just hate all living things, he loves his money.

 

**** CHENEY TOLD HIM TO DO IT!

[Kaftan Barlast]

-Drill in the woods? I dont get it, theres no oil in trees? Except maple syrup. I like maple syrup, Dlck.

-Yes but theres oil in the ground below the trees, George.

-But what happens to the maple syrup then?

-It has to go away with the trees so we can drill for oil.

-I heard you can make booze out of trees, Dlck.

-Uhm, well. yeah but thats the stuff they use in antifreeze, youre not supposed to drink it. But thats beside the point, George, just sign the goddamn contract!

-You're not? Damn we used to party on that **** all the time in college when we couldnt get enough coke.

-Just...sign..the...document...

-Have you tried coke, Dlck? Its great but dad made me give it up, I hate dad.

-Thats it, Ill just get the CIA to forge your signature.

 

 

edit: had to modify Mr. Cheneys first name due to the obscenity.

[Ellester]

The government will no longer require that its managers prepare an environmental impact analysis with each forest's management plan, or use numerical counts to ensure there are "viable populations" of fish and wildlife. The changes will reduce the number of required scientific reports and ask federal officials to focus on a forest's overall health, rather than the fate of individual species, when evaluating how best to protect local plants and animals.

 

This is just sad. Being a graduation of the Ohio State School of Natural Resources (Resource Management) I know how import these reports are, having written one in school. Taking these away basically allows them to do whatever they want as there are no scientific analysis reports detailing how much erosion and/or what the impact will have on wildlife, etc... will occur with logging and mining. These reports were the only thing that was saving old growth forests from being logged. Honestly environmentalists are going to have to fight logging in the forests (and doing illegal things to stop this) and not in the courts, as they have no leg to stand on anymore.

 

Quite a sad day for the U.S. national park system and Americans who actually care about this stuff.

 

Btw, kumquatq3 great avatar. Being a Cincinnati fan I had to look elsewhere to be an NBA fan, so I'm a Bulls fan. And damn are they on fire right now! Future is looking good in Chicago.

[KOTORFanactic]

This is my creation

 

Just something I found on the Internet

[kumquatq3]

edit: had to modify Mr. Cheneys first name due to the obscenity.

 

HA!

 

Honestly environmentalists are going to have to fight logging in the forests (and doing illegal things to stop this) and not in the courts, as they have no leg to stand on anymore.

 

Quite a sad day for the U.S. national park system and Americans who actually care about this stuff.

 

I wish they could come up with a better name than ELF tho

[KOTORFanactic]

Bush "My fellow Aborigines, I'm going to cut down sumo trees in the name of that big bearded guy who lives in the sky. If we don't cute down twees, I will be veted out of my home, and be homeless <stutter>less less less less<stutter>. Backsides that, I will lose some moonay."

 

Some Guy "You Suck!"

 

Bush "Bring me my chain sew."

 

 

On a serious note (yeah, right) why is he doing this. Money, America is a superpower, the richest country in the world, and Bush wants to cut down even more trees. What is he going to do with the tress, use them as battering rams against the terrorists.

[Darque]

I hate George Bush.

[Volourn]

I don't worship murderers hence the worship of nature would make me sick if I ever got sick.

 

Nature is the biggest mass murderer EVER.

 

It should be FRIED!

 

NEWSFLASH: IF YOU THINK ANTURE IS YOUR FRIEND OR ALLY YOUA RE DUMB! SHE WILL KILL YOU! SOONER OR LATER SHE'LL TERMINATE YOU LIKE EVERY OTHER LIVING CREATURE KNOWN!

[Judge Hades]

The leading cause of death is life.

[kumquatq3]

I don't worship murderers hence the worship of nature would make me sick if I ever got sick.

 

Nature is the biggest mass murderer EVER.

 

It should be FRIED!

 

NEWSFLASH: IF YOU THINK ANTURE IS YOUR FRIEND OR ALLY YOUA RE DUMB! SHE WILL KILL YOU! SOONER OR LATER SHE'LL TERMINATE YOU LIKE EVERY OTHER LIVING CREATURE KNOWN!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

So what your saying is, we have to get nature before it gets us?

 

I knew those rabbits were acting smug

[Kaftan Barlast]

You know what? I think he may be right. Falling pinecones kill more people than terrorism every day, its just not very widely known or written about.

I have two giant pinecones in my kitchen right now. I am afraid, please help me. I dont know what to do. Would someone please send help. Thankyou.

[Gorth]

Life is a sexually transmitted fatal disease. We should all contribute to contain and eradicate it... Yeah right

[Volourn]

"I knew those rabbits were acting smug"

 

Rabbits are just more of natur's victims. If we don't get 'em; nature will anyways. It's the way nature works. Huamns as all species are just nature's tools to commit its destructive deeds.

 

I do not Blame Hitler or Saddam. I blame Nature for making them.

[taks]

you people just don't get it... it's amazing that emotion can override common sense even in educated individuals.

 

self serving bureaucracies do not help the environment. remember, WE are part of the environment, too. stifling economic growth is tantamount to forcing poverty on us.

 

use a little common sense and get over your fanatical idealism and maybe you'll be able to see how things work in the real world.

 

 

taks

[taks]

"I knew those rabbits were acting smug"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it's the woodland critters problem... don't kill the mountain lion!

funny that i'm sitting here seeing you as a voice of reason, volourn... veeeery funny

 

taks

[Kaftan Barlast]

Sorry, I was overcome by fanatical idealism. What were you saying?

[kumquatq3]

you people just don't get it... it's amazing that emotion can override common sense even in educated individuals.

 

self serving bureaucracies do not help the environment.  remember, WE are part of the environment, too.  stifling economic growth is tantamount to forcing poverty on us.

 

use a little common sense and get over your fanatical idealism and maybe you'll be able to see how things work in the real world.

 

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You would be right......if the rabbits were the cause of said "poverty".

 

But their not. We would be the cause of our own poverty in this case.

 

Plus, to even suggest that leaving Clinton envirmental protections in place would somehow drive us all into poverty is foolish and shortsighted. Not that the National Park Service is all that great (most of their budget goes to building roads.....), but these measures are not helping to lessen the red tape for anything but logging companies.

[taks]

You would be right......if the rabbits were the cause of said "poverty".

you apparently don't understand a thing i said. i cannot be held accountable for your lack of understanding of economic theories.

 

But their not. We would be the cause of our own poverty in this case.

again... btw, what exactly does this have to do with what i said?

 

Plus, to even suggest that leaving Clinton envirmental protections in place would somehow drive us all into poverty is foolish and shortsighted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

where did i say this? please elaborate.

 

do i need to educate you in the basics?

 

for those who don't seem to understand common sense, let's put it bluntly. restricting any natural resource through regulation limits economic growth. it is a fact and that is the goal as well. limited economic growth reduces environmental impact on the surface. or so it would seem... the long term affects of draconic restrictions and layers of bureaucracy is, as intended, reduced growth in the economy. this results in higher costs for the consumers which results in less consumption. yadda yadda yadda... less consumption means less jobs. less jobs means more poverty.

 

you fanatics don't see the forest through the trees. sure, it's all well and good but at what cost?

 

your quotes from the article:

 

The new rules give economic activity equal priority with preserving the ecological health of the forests in making management decisions and in potentially liberalizing caps on how much timber can be taken from a forest.

how exactly is this bad? are you saying it's OK to damage the economy, and reduce our standard of living, to save a tree?

 

The government will no longer require that its managers prepare an environmental impact analysis with each forest's management plan, or use numerical counts to ensure there are "viable populations" of fish and wildlife. The changes will reduce the number of required scientific reports and ask federal officials to focus on a forest's overall health, rather than the fate of individual species, when evaluating how best to protect local plants and animals.

again, how is this bad? they've removed a layer of bureaucracy. maybe now they can actually devote their resources to solutions that work for everybody, and everthing, rather than individual entities.

 

This will get the Forest Service caring about the land and caring about the people, instead of caring about the process and serving the bureaucracy,

Hey, sounds pretty good. I guess there isn't anything to wor.....hey, waiddaminute... who is this guy????

 

Chris West, vice president of the American Forest Resource Council.....who represents lumber and paper companies as well as landowners in 13 western states.

what??? do you really mean that making such a statement is OK if it's from some ELF representative that thinks it's OK to burn houses (further damaging the environment, ironically), but not from somebody who's income depends on the viability of such resources? great idea but it came from the wrong mouth? you're joking, right?

 

i think you need to re-evaluate some things here... your double standard isn't just obvious, it's ridiculous.

 

taks

[kumquatq3]

you apparently don't understand a thing i said. i cannot be held accountable for your lack of understanding of economic theories.

 

self serving bureaucracies do not help the environment.  remember, WE are part of the environment, too.  stifling economic growth is tantamount to forcing poverty on us.

 

You implied, without these measures, that the economy would be stifiled and poverty would be forced apon us. Which would be false. Why else add "stifling economic growth is tantamount to forcing poverty on us" to that blip?

 

You also implied that by forcing poverty on us, we would be hurting the enviroment. As "WE" are part of the enviroment. Which doesn't take into account what other species would "gain".

 

If you didn't mean to say either of those, you need to spend more time thinking about want you say and then typing it out clearly.

 

again... btw, what exactly does this have to do with what i said?

 

I'm not sure anyone, even yourself, really knows exactly what you said.

 

 

where did i say this? please elaborate.

 

self serving bureaucracies do not help the environment.  remember, WE are part of the environment, too.  stifling economic growth is tantamount to forcing poverty on us.

 

If you didn't mean to imply that why the hell did you post any of this? That is the only connecting factor in the above three sentances

 

do i need to educate you in the basics?

 

as soon as you learn them, I'd love to hear all about it

 

for those who don't seem to understand common sense, let's put it bluntly. restricting any natural resource through regulation limits economic growth. it is a fact and that is the goal as well. limited economic growth reduces environmental impact on the surface. or so it would seem... the long term affects of draconic restrictions and layers of bureaucracy is, as intended, reduced growth in the economy. this results in higher costs for the consumers which results in less consumption. yadda yadda yadda... less consumption means less jobs. less jobs means more poverty.

 

The money national forest generate in tourism increases every year. Not to meantion other industries that get hurt by this, such as the salmon industry, as thier wild stocks decrease every year. Plus the reduced jobs for park rangers and enviromental anylasts, as these apparently detailed reports are no longer needed.

 

There is NEVER just one economic line of effect of an action. It's a ripple in a pond, not a row of dominos. Surprised you didn't know that.

 

Plus, since we are using "econimic" terms, there is lots of "Good Will", if I may, to be had from these species and areas. Meaning, not all gains are monetary. As well as, I assume this means nothing to you, the benifit of Biodiversity.

 

Then of course you know of supply and demand, if you want to talk in basic terms, if the logging companies have access to more and cheaper wood, the prices of wood goes down, the logging companies make less per plank. This would mean they have more jobs, but likely pay these workers less. The gain isn't as incredible as you tried to make it appear. Specially after foreign markets react.

 

Then of course, you have the possibl ecosts of enviroment clean up, and the cost of fighting lawsuits to establish their new claims, etc etc.

 

you fanatics don't see the forest through the trees. sure, it's all well and good but at what cost?

 

Very little actually. Thats my point.......... You zealot!

 

how exactly is this bad? are you saying it's OK to damage the economy, and reduce our standard of living, to save a tree?

 

Are you saying it's ok to wipe out species to make a buck?

 

Whos the fanatic now?

 

Now lets talk reality: I wouldn't mind open more areas to logging nessasarily, but I don't want the needs of a species thats about to be wiped off the earth to be equal to how much money a logging company can make because:

 

1. Thats what this bill does. Endangered species are no longer considered a factor. It's the overall "health" of the forest that matters. Meaning, if the logging company can "prove" that the forest can get along without Mr. Spotty owl, they can go ahead and log. And there isn't any evidence to support Mr. Spotty Owl anymore, because the bill make such reports optional at best. The data would almost all most likely come from the logging company, which I have to assume, may not be the most unbiased source.

 

2. Without this measure, I assure you, our general standard of living would NOT decrease nor would the general strength of the economy. You won't feel much of a gain from this action either, besides logging companies getting a small stock jump

 

On the news: Pacific Lumber Co/Maxxam (one of the bigger loggers in the US) "jumped" .62% on the news. You want to bet the effect of the bill is likely more or less now taken into account in the stock price?

 

The "juice" isn't worth the squeeze. If it is, I'm scared to think what you view as "ok" for a company to do to make a dollar. Reduced FDA standards maybe?

 

again, how is this bad? they've removed a layer of bureaucracy. maybe now they can actually devote their resources to solutions that work for everybody, and everthing, rather than individual entities.

 

So, by not looking into how an action will effect the enviroment anymore, you now are looking at everyone interests? Funny that sounds to me like you are just looking into the loggers interests exclusively, as it only removed "bureaucracy" for them. Of course you call it bureaucracy, I call it protection.

 

By not counting endangered species when decideding whether or not to open an area for loggin, thats fair? Thats balance?

 

what??? do you really mean that making such a statement is OK if it's from some ELF representative that thinks it's OK to burn houses (further damaging the environment, ironically), but not from somebody who's income depends on the viability of such resources? great idea but it came from the wrong mouth? you're joking, right?

 

Nice try. I never once said or implied I take ELFs word over this guys. Both are extremists.

 

Please only post actual points. Made up ones wastes everyone time.

 

Now, if you read the article instead assuming to know what it says, a Rep. from NM (a state that would be effected) is very much apposed to this. My point is the only guy who wants this was the logging representative.

 

i think you need to re-evaluate some things here... your double standard isn't just obvious, it's ridiculous.

 

I hope what you want me to re-evalute isn't based of your spotty info.

[Darque]

I don't worship murderers hence the worship of nature would make me sick if I ever got sick.

 

Nature is the biggest mass murderer EVER.

 

It should be FRIED!

 

NEWSFLASH: IF YOU THINK ANTURE IS YOUR FRIEND OR ALLY YOUA RE DUMB! SHE WILL KILL YOU! SOONER OR LATER SHE'LL TERMINATE YOU LIKE EVERY OTHER LIVING CREATURE KNOWN!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Once again you prove that you're a grade-a moronic troll.

[Judge Hades]

The natural world is not our friend but neither is it our enemy. It simply is and it is within balance of itself and when humankind, who is not balanced within itself, steps in nature tends to have a hefty backlash. Let Bush do what he wants. Its not going to matter in 17 years time.

[Gorth]

The natural world is not our friend but neither is it our enemy.  It simply is and it is within balance of itself and when humankind, who is not balanced within itself, steps in nature tends to have a hefty backlash.

 

In my best Mitch Pileggi voice imitation: "Humans are a race that does not *know* itself..."

[Judge Hades]

HA!

[jaguars4ever]

The natural world is not our friend but neither is it our enemy.  It simply is and it is within balance of itself and when humankind, who is not balanced within itself, steps in nature tends to have a hefty backlash.

 

In my best Mitch Pileggi voice imitation: "Humans are a race that does not *know* itself..."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>