KOTOR II: from the eyes of a Star Wars FANATIC

[Meshugger]

FROM A STAR WARS FANATIC PERSPECTIVE:

It feels like the writers of the story didnt understand the Star Wars universe.

And they sure as hell didnt play and beat KOTOR I.

 

ex:

They never explain Yuthura Ban and what happened to her on Korriban/Dantooine

 

They never explain how a certain famous Jedi can just show up with Carth on Telos (she's a Jedi isnt she?)

 

KOTOR I was structured like a Star Wars movie.

From the opening battle scene above Taris to the ending celebration on the lost world.

 

KOTOR II is structured in an erratic format that I did not enjoy.

 

KOTOR I taught us something new about the Jedi. On Dantooine, we go through the training of a Padawan and we learn what it is like to train and become a Jedi.

 

KOTOR II doesnt provide any new revelations about the Jedi.

 

KOTOR I gives us insight into the mind of a Sith.  The conversations we have with Yuthura Ban and Master Uthar on Korriban elucidate how a Sith can justify their doctrine.

 

The best KOTOR II can do is tell us that we havent met the true Sith yet.

 

Each planet in KOTOR I had a fascinating storyline.

Taris: The racist rich in thier skyscrapers are destroyed, leaving the underclass, the undercity dwellers to inherit the planet

 

Korriban: We are indoctrinated into Sith teachings. (my favorite planet)

 

Kashykk: The wookies are enslaved in the name of corporate greed, and we lead a revolution on the planet

 

Tantooine: We learn about the Sand People and thier mythology

 

KOTOR II has no such allegories, just the run of the mill stories.

 

Most of the characters were uninteresting.

Atris, Kreia, Atton, the handmaiden, the disciple, Mira, the remaining Jedi Masters, all had nothing to add to the story, only useless cryptic babble.

Kreia:

"I know why the Exile did what he did"

what did he do?

Kreia:

"He did that which changed the galaxy"

what did he do?

Kreia:

"echoes in the force"

 

I personally liked Visas and Bao Dur, but thats just me.

 

The Influence function was useless, there was no stat or quantitative number that we could use to gauge its effectiveness.

 

conclusion:

The writers of the story didnt understand the Star Wars mythos, they didnt understand the Bioware contribution, and thus they have submitted a game with good intentions, but poor implementation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

One can wonder if Obsidian has taken the the same approach as the JRPG's, leaving the player figuring out the clues/solutions themselves. This way of telling a story is very prominent, for example, in the Final Fantasy series. Personally, i like that style alot more, but i have to play the damn game first before i can make the judgement whether TSL follows a similar design-choice or not.

[Shadowstrider]

FROM A STAR WARS FANATIC PERSPECTIVE:

It feels like the writers of the story didnt understand the Star Wars universe.

And they sure as hell didnt play and beat KOTOR I.

 

ex:

They never explain Yuthura Ban and what happened to her on Korriban/Dantooine

 

They couldn't give a detailed analysis of all the semi-important NPCs in KotOR1. That would have taken up the whole game. Not only that if you factor in that there were 3 VERY different outcomes with that particuliar NPC.

 

One way you save her and she returns to the jedi. If you saved her then you could assume she was one of the jedi who is slain between KotOR1 and KotOR2(I will not spoil).

 

Another option you side with her and strike down Uthar only to have her turn on you. You kill her. Game. Set. Match.

 

The last option is you side with Wynn, she dies. Game. Set. Match.

 

You're to caught up in the previous game's hype to appreciate the current game as is in my opinion.

 

They never explain how a certain famous Jedi can just show up with Carth on Telos (she's a Jedi isnt she?)

 

I actually don't know who or what you're talking about.

 

KOTOR I was structured like a Star Wars movie.

From the opening battle scene above Taris to the ending celebration on the lost world.

 

KOTOR II is structured in an erratic format that I did not enjoy.

 

This is your opinion, and it is certainly valid, though I don't see how it is "erratic." Especially any more or less erratic than the first one. Just because it followed the theorum of the other Star Wars films? It does follow a very similar path to RotJ.

 

KOTOR I taught us something new about the Jedi. On Dantooine, we go through the training of a Padawan and we learn what it is like to train and become a Jedi.

 

KOTOR II doesnt provide any new revelations about the Jedi.

 

Sure it does. KotOR2 is the history of the old republic. This one is the tale of how the jedi were once hunted to near-extinction and their hopes and fears now rest in an exile.

 

*Semi-spoiler*

 

We learn about force bonds and that one who loses or gives up the connection to the force can attain their connection once more.

 

*/Semi-spoiler*

 

KOTOR I gives us insight into the mind of a Sith.  The conversations we have with Yuthura Ban and Master Uthar on Korriban elucidate how a Sith can justify their doctrine.

 

The best KOTOR II can do is tell us that we havent met the true Sith yet.

 

This is one way to look at it. Personally, just as I view KotOR1 and 2 as a history lesson of the Jedi I view it as a history lesson of the sith. What did you want to learn about the sith? Did you want to learn about their dark secrets of power? Guess what, you sort of do. We learn a bit about Naga Sadow and Kressh that we did not know before.

 

Did you expect to get indoctrinated to sith philosophy again?

 

Each planet in KOTOR I had a fascinating storyline.

Taris: The racist rich in thier skyscrapers are destroyed, leaving the underclass, the undercity dwellers to inherit the planet

 

Korriban: We are indoctrinated into Sith teachings. (my favorite planet)

 

Kashykk: The wookies are enslaved in the name of corporate greed, and we lead a revolution on the planet

 

Tantooine: We learn about the Sand People and thier mythology

 

KOTOR II has no such allegories, just the run of the mill stories.

 

Uhm...

 

*Semi-spoilers*

 

 

Nar Shadaa: Refugees being hussled and oppressed.

 

Onderon: Political turmoil and revolt.

 

Telos: A world's restoration in jeopardy and a struggle to keep the mafia and monopolies out.

 

Korriban: Mysteries of an abandoned half-dead world.

 

Dxun: Hiding from gun-toting would-be killers and meeting up with some unlikely inhabitants.

 

Peragus: House of the murderous droids.

 

Dantooine: San Francisco gold rush, jedi-style.

 

Malachor: Shattered ruins of a shattered past

 

 

*/Semi-spoilers*

 

Most of the characters were uninteresting.

Atris, Kreia, Atton, the handmaiden, the disciple, Mira, the remaining Jedi Masters, all had nothing to add to the story, only useless cryptic babble.

Kreia:

"I know why the Exile did what he did"

what did he do?

Kreia:

"He did that which changed the galaxy"

what did he do?

Kreia:

"echoes in the force"

 

I personally liked Visas and Bao Dur, but thats just me.

 

Again, your opinion and you're entitled to it. I have to ask though, you're a self-proclaimed SW fanatic. What would you say Yoda does in a story? Doesn't he provide nothing more than "cryptic babble?"

 

Don't ALL jedi masters provide nothing but cryptic babble in the SW universe?

 

Obi-wan Kenobi? Cryptic babbler. Qui-gon Jin? Cryptic babbler. That strange-head guy who sits in the jedi chamber? Cryptic babbler. Master Vandar? Cryptic babbler. Need I continue?

 

The Influence function was useless, there was no stat or quantitative number that we could use to gauge its effectiveness.

 

As for their uninteresting NPCs. I quite enjoyed Kreia, and Handmaiden. Bao-Dur was a high-point in personalities.

 

Like all games there are highes and lows. Personally I though T3-M4 was drastically improved from the first. Personally of the two games Jolee is my favorite NPC, but Kreia and Bao-dur are close.

[Mahf]

ok, I just completed KOTOR II.

 

 

But, on a scale from 1 - 10

1 being Driver3

10 being Fable or KOTOR 1,

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's been said but it deserves to be repeated over and over and over...

If you give Fable a 10, then you're probably not a very good critic...

[EnderAndrew]

If someone considers either Fable or KOTOR:1 a 10/10, then I don't value their opinion too highly. Regardless you completely discount all of KOTOR:2's improvements out of hand. You really aren't fair.

 

New Lightsaber upgrades.

Lightsaber forms

Influence system

Random loot

MUCH better dialogue

A real dark side path

Tons more replay value

Weapon switching on the fly

More force powers

The new workbench - this is huge

Much better skill implementation. Every attribute and skill is worthwhile now.

 

How are people calling KOTOR a 10/10 and calling KOTOR:2 a 6/10 when KOTOR:2 has so many improvements?

 

Be more realistic with your expectations.

[Mjolnir]

I

How are people calling KOTOR a 10/10 and calling KOTOR:2 a 6/10 when KOTOR:2 has so many improvements?

 

Be more realistic with your expectations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree, there a so many improvments to the equipment, weapons, force powers, and there are evne more characters. People who say that KOTOR: 2 is that much worse than KOTOR one are mad.

[EnderAndrew]

To the Obsidian dev's, some of us actually quite like the game.

[nightcleaver]

A question to those who just absolutely HATE the influence system:

 

Would you mind having the influence system, AND something like the storytelling of KotOR 1? Or do you just think the influence system is stupid and the dev's should be shot for thinking of it? I found that it made it all more realistic.

 

Also, I wonder if any of these people (not trying to be mean here, just trying to make a point) would "get" the "Star Wars mythos" if THEY had made the game? I'm sure Obsidian "understood" just fine, but maybe they created something that didn't give the same feeling as Star Wars, as you've come to expect.

[Laozi]

If someone considers either Fable or KOTOR:1 a 10/10, then I don't value their opinion too highly.  Regardless you completely discount all of KOTOR:2's improvements out of hand.  You really aren't fair.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Right, I mean I like Kotor and at the time it was the best Star Wars game of all time, but 10/10, thats just plain stupid. As for Fable I'd give a 6.5 but in reality it'd probaly only get a 4.0 because it was suppose to come out a full year before it was released, and didn't even come close to fullfilling its promises.

 

Kotor 2, despite an ending thats been called *vague* is a much better game. As for not involving characters from the previous game, its like in Baldur's gate 2, when Drizzt reappears, sure its cool if you didn't kill him in the first game, but its uberlame if you did. I think they actually could have brught back Yuthura in the new game with only a little effort and a Baldur's Gate type question ie. "Didn't Revan kill you on Korriban?" "Yes, he nearly did, but I survived and healed myself with the force, it was my first step back to the light." Or whatever, but they didn't , and that's there choice, and maybe that'll be in the third game, giving it more *continuity*. I personally like the story behind the planets better then the first game, Taris always bothered me, especially the promised land crap, I actually thought Tatoonie was ok except the Czerka marker stuff, Manaan was alright, Korriban was indeed the best, Wookieland looked great, but was incrediable limited. I won't spoil anything about the planets in the new game, but I have liked them all so far, of course thing could change after a few play through

[EnderAndrew]

Some has said they don't understand the inlfuenece system, or that it's imperfect. I haven't seen anyone say they outright hate it.

 

As far as "getting the Star Wars mythos", we get

a hand chopped off right away, and someone saying "I've got a bad feeling about this."

in the first few fours. Last I hear MCA got near obsessive about immersion in the Star Wars universe, and it shows.

[nightcleaver]

What is it when someone says, "They should've have gone without the influence system," or, "The influence system is broken," and then go and talk about how they should replace it completely with what was in KotOR I?

[EnderAndrew]

What was in KOTOR:1 was silly.

 

My girlfriend played female/DS. Carth would say, "you're really cute when you're mad", and then you'd kill an innocent person. He'd ofcourse help out, and then chastise you for being a bad person. Then after he chided you for slaughter (after helping) he'd then hit on you again.

 

It was horrible.

[Ostkant]

I agree with the guy that started the discussion on SOME points.

 

Malachor wasn't boring at all, in fact it's quite a scary planet. The Journal helped me a lot.

 

But as you said, most people experienced huge bugs in the game, and so many questions were left unanswered, and some things just happened without explanation.

 

The game had great potential.

 

Let's not even bring Halo 2 into the discussion, a much overrated game I happen to own.

[EnderAndrew]

Halo 2 is a completely different beast. It's a few genres away, and horribly, horribly overrated.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

They never explain how a certain famous Jedi can just show up with Carth on Telos (she's a Jedi isnt she?)

 

I actually don't know who or what you're talking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He's talking about

Bastila

 

 

To the OG poster. I felt the same way you did, but as you play the game some more you will learn to appreciate it as I did. I'll be going through for my 5th time and it will be the first DS game I play.

[global_74]

you guys can disagree about Fable all you want, but its not gonna remedy the many problems in KOTOR II.

 

and as far as Yoda, Qui Gon Jin, and Kenobi, I dont find their dialogue cryptic at all.

 

Ive played and beaten the game as a LS Jedi Guardian Weapons Master,

Im playing the game now as a DS Dark Jedi Sentinel, (no prestige yet)

and it is very obvious that the game wasnt ready to be shipped to market.

 

There are glaring inconsistencies in the dialogue, story, and transition points from KOTOR I to KOTOR II.

There are plot lines that are never resolved, there are lines of dialogue THAT MAKE NO SENSE, there are lines of code that should have been re-written.

 

if you cant see this, then you are employed by Obsidian in some form or fashion.

[global_74]

He's talking about

Bastila

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

you are correct.

and for someone to be such a central figure in the first KOTOR, if you are gonna show her face in KOTOR II, then you better come up with a (decent) bloody explanation as to why she isnt continuing the fight.

[global_74]

To the Obsidian dev's, some of us actually quite like the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

what are you trying to curry favor or something?

 

the devs can take the criticism.

In fact, if you read my post, this really isnt about the devs, its about the Marketing and Business teams that pushed for an early rollout of the game before it was ready. If the product had been through a quality Q/A, most of the problems would have been taken care of.

 

As a software engineer, I know that the devs had little power over when to ship the product. The project manager is the one who calls the shots.

[Baneblade]

A question to those who just absolutely HATE the influence system: 

 

Would you mind having the influence system, AND something like the storytelling of KotOR 1?  Or do you just think the influence system is stupid and the dev's should be shot for thinking of it?  I found that it made it all more realistic.

 

Also, I wonder if any of these people (not trying to be mean here, just trying to make a point) would "get" the "Star Wars mythos" if THEY had made the game?  I'm sure Obsidian "understood" just fine, but maybe they created something that didn't give the same feeling as Star Wars, as you've come to expect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The influence system is flawed

you can't lie or manipulate

.

 

I only played it some 7 hours or so...

 

...but It didn't have the SW feeling to It.

[global_74]

As far as "getting the Star Wars mythos", we get

a hand chopped off right away, and someone saying "I've got a bad feeling about this."

in the first few fours.  Last I hear MCA got near obsessive about immersion in the Star Wars universe, and it shows.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

those are superficial allusions to the Star Wars universe (at best)

and if you think that getting a hand lopped off is what entails the Star Wars mythos, then you should watch Episodes 4-6 1000 more times.

[global_74]

Also, I wonder if any of these people (not trying to be mean here, just trying to make a point) would "get" the "Star Wars mythos" if THEY had made the game? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

thats a cop out.

we are talking about a multi million dollar project, they can take the time to read up on Star Wars lore and how Bioware implemented it through their Odessy Engine.

 

and hypothetically,

If I was to build a Star Wars game, I would make sure the plot was lucid, the NPC's interesting, the dialogue engaging, and the ending was enlightening.

[global_74]

If someone considers either Fable or KOTOR:1 a 10/10, then I don't value their opinion too highly.  Regardless you completely discount all of KOTOR:2's improvements out of hand.  You really aren't fair.

 

New Lightsaber upgrades.

Lightsaber forms

Influence system

Random loot

MUCH better dialogue

A real dark side path

Tons more replay value

Weapon switching on the fly

More force powers

The new workbench - this is huge

Much better skill implementation. Every attribute and skill is worthwhile now.

 

How are people calling KOTOR a 10/10 and calling KOTOR:2 a 6/10 when KOTOR:2 has so many improvements?

 

Be more realistic with your expectations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

so now you are telling me to downgrade my expectations to fit the game?

 

KOTOR exceeded my expectations.

I expected the same out of its sequel.

 

and if you read my first post, you will see many of those features listed along with a congrats to the Obsidian devs.

 

but now is the time to make known the problems in the game.

if Obsidian gets the nod for the third installment, they are gonna have to up the ante, or lose alot of $$$$.

[Shadowstrider]

I've suddenly lost interest in replying in this thread. Global_74's best defenses of his opinion have been "thats not true, because I say so."

 

"and as far as Yoda, Qui Gon Jin, and Kenobi, I dont find their dialogue cryptic at all."

 

"and it is very obvious that the game wasnt ready to be shipped to market."

 

"There are glaring inconsistencies in the dialogue, story, and transition points from KOTOR I to KOTOR II.

There are plot lines that are never resolved, there are lines of dialogue THAT MAKE NO SENSE, there are lines of code that should have been re-written.

 

if you cant see this, then you are employed by Obsidian in some form or fashion. "

 

I replied to his post like I reply to anyones post when I find them full of glaringly overlooked details, with factual information from the game.

 

What do we get in reply?

His opinion without any sort of support from the game.

To me its clear this post is simply made as a shot. He didn't like it and no matter what we say to point out how it does fit the SW mythos, or how the game doesn't have "lines of dialog that MAKE NO SENSE" he will continue to hold his opinion and not listen to others, all the while claiming we are "trying to curry favor" or "if you cant see this, then you are employed by Obsidian in some form or fashion."

 

*Desperately looks for an ignore button*

[global_74]

your "facts" are sorely lacking in, ummm, facts.

 

every point you make, I counter asbest I can without giving away too much of the game.

If you want to have an in depth discussion, start a thread in the spoilers room. I dont think that you are up to the challenge.

 

And besides, I bought the game, I am entitled to my opinion.

 

and you can choose to ignore the facts, but there's many many more voices like mine out there. We are displeased with the game in its current form, get over it

[global_74]

I've suddenly lost interest in replying in this thread.  Global_74's best defenses of his opinion have been "thats not true, because I say so."

 

"and as far as Yoda, Qui Gon Jin, and Kenobi, I dont find their dialogue cryptic at all."

 

"and it is very obvious that the game wasnt ready to be shipped to market."

 

"There are glaring inconsistencies in the dialogue, story, and transition points from KOTOR I to KOTOR II.

There are plot lines that are never resolved, there are lines of dialogue THAT MAKE NO SENSE, there are lines of code that should have been re-written.

 

if you cant see this, then you are employed by Obsidian in some form or fashion. "

 

I replied to his post like I reply to anyones post when I find them full of glaringly overlooked details, with factual information from the game.

 

What do we get in reply?

His opinion without any sort of support from the game.

To me its clear this post is simply made as a shot.  He didn't like it and no matter what we say to point out how it does fit the SW mythos, or how the game doesn't have "lines of dialog that MAKE NO SENSE" he will continue to hold his opinion and not listen to others, all the while claiming we are "trying to curry favor" or "if you cant see this, then you are employed by Obsidian in some form or fashion."

 

*Desperately looks for an ignore button*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

you cant ignore the facts forever

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3137063

[GhostofAnakin]

you cant ignore the facts forever

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3137063

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Did you just quote the reviewer who owns a BARBIE game in his video game collection to prove a point?

 

Btw, use spoiler tags (if you haven't already, since I haven't read the thread since you first posted it). It's just plain ignorant to ruin the game for everyone else when there's a forum strictly for any threads containing spoilers.