Neverwinter Nights 2 or Dragon Age?

[Tenjhotenge]

Okay, as we all know - Neverwinter Nights is a PC role-playing game from BioWare. (Unless you have been living under a rock for the past three years).

 

Dragon Age and Neverwinter Nights II are both PC role-playing games with medieval setting and they both have a toolset for custom content.

 

BioWare is now making a new role-playing game called Dragon Age. It has a world of it's own and it doesn't follow D&D rules = BioWare doesn't have to ask permission from WoTC for anything. I think BioWare has more money and time to put on Dragon Age than Obsidian has on NWN II. Which will be seen in the quality.

 

Obsidian is now making a sequel to the famous role-playing game Neverwinter Nights. It is based in the City of Neverwinter (Just like the original nwn) and it does follow D&D rules. Which is good for those who have played PnP for years. But I doubt they get the game balanced this time. All the happenings of NWN II take part in the city of Neverwinter, that doesn't offer anything new, does it? This has been said many times that Obsidian has a strict schelude and limited money to put on this game and they also have other projects on their way (KoTR II). Knights of the Old Republic was also a game by Bioware. But why BioWare are giving all the sequels to Obsidian? Not that it bothers me but I have suspicions. Also, limited time and money will be seen in the quality. I'd say NWN II hits the stores around 2006-2008 but of course I can't know it and it may end up to be stores at 2010.

 

Dragon Age on the other hand offers a brand new world from a skilled team that is more flexible than NWN II. Also BioWare is helping out Obsidian with the toolset and stuff - so in my eyes it looks like Obsidian isn't as skilled as BioWare. And also, it may be a cliche to say this but I think it's kinda true: "Sequels are never as good as the original ones".

 

I'm not trying to put NWN II down, I'm just trying to start a conversation about which one will be better. Personally, I'll buy them both anyway but which game I'll play is still a mystery but now I think Dragon Age has caught my interest.

[Mordaedil]

Dragon Age won't support Online gaming, so NWN 2 is my definite long-term game, whereas Dragon Age will be a fun 40-hour singleplayer waste. Tada.

[Tenjhotenge]

Yes, it does so.

[caesarbear]

Neither of these games even exist yet. We have a reasonable idea what the tools for NWN2 will be like, how can you know what the Dragon Age tools will be like? Bio wrote the toolset Obsidian is redoing, so why wouldn't they help if asked.

 

Did it occur to you that Bio and Obs know each other? Some of the folks at Obs were supposed to be in on the original NWN. Since Bio wants to do other things, what more obvious choice to get NWN2 than Obs.

 

As for Kotor as well, there is a great demand for sequels. Why wouldn't Bio hand it off to people they worked with before and a new company they want to see succeed?

 

I like how your bashing Obs, when they have only 1 (Xbox) game to their credit, which is receiving decent reviews. Honestly as far as single player goes, it won't be hard to top NWN1. Forgotten Realms has been done over and over in CRPGs, yet I don't hear people complaining about BG2.

 

I believe Obs. can do some good things with NWN2. And my guess is that it will be better than NWN1. Dragon Age is much more of an unknown, but it's freedom from Wizards of the Coast and all the rules of d20/D&D is very appealing to me.

[Tenjhotenge]

I believe Obs. can do some good things with NWN2.

 

So do I.

 

I like how your bashing Obs, when they have only 1 (Xbox) game to their credit, which is receiving decent reviews.

 

Don't you think that's ironic what you just said?

 

Besides, if you would have read my post... or maybe you did but you didn't understand it. No matter, I'll help you out!

 

I'm not trying to put NWN II down, I'm just trying to start a conversation about which one will be better

 

That is what I said. Please read the whole text before making silly posts. Thanks!

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I'm very drawn to Dragon Age because it offers full party control in the same way BG and IWD did.

 

NwNII has a lot riding on how good it's henchmen AI is.

 

Dragon Age is also being written specifically for a computer to take advantage of what it is best at. Which means no one can whine about it.

 

NwN II will have to be really special to avoid that been there done that feeling. Especially when measured up against the next gen consoles.

 

As for better, who knows. Some people are totally fixated on D&D others loathe it. I doubt either game will change anyones mind.

 

As a single player game though. I have to give DA the edge based on the BG games vs the AI henchmen in NwN.

[caesarbear]

"I'm not trying to put NWN II down, I'm just trying to start a conversation about which one will be better"

 

That is what I said. Please read the whole text before making silly posts. Thanks! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ok smartypants, the fact that you had to say "I'm not trying to put NWN II down" and that you're accussing me of not reading your post means you're being rather confrontational. You wanted a discussion (but I'm ready to believe your trolling) so I'm giving you one. We argee on some issues, but I don't get your Bio>Obs. talk.

 

Actual discussions involve a "trading" of thoughts, not just a shout in an ulgy color and dissapearing afterwards. If you have specific points as to why my post is silly then make them.

[Tenjhotenge]

I'm very drawn to Dragon Age because it offers full party control in the same way BG and IWD did.

 

Yeah, that's quite cool.

 

Though, I'm more interested in multi-player than single-player.

[Shakaar]

I like how your bashing Obs, when they have only 1 (Xbox) game to their credit, which is receiving decent reviews.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You seem to forget here that Obsidian under the name of Obsidian may have only published one game on Xbox or whatever, but they are basically the guys from Black Isle, who made Planeshift:Torment and had their hands in the creation of the IWD and BG series (though I do not know exactly to what extent).

 

They founded Obsidian as a new studio since Black Isle belonged to Interplay and they shut it down some time ago.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Though, I'm more interested in multi-player than single-player.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats fine, people are going to play for different reasons. We can know a lot about NwN II just from knowing about the D&D rules but that dosnt apply to Dragon Age. Dragon Age does plan to have two modules one written specifically for single player and one for multiplayer.Which seems like a very good idea given how different the two experiences are.

 

One thing we do sort of know about Dragon Age is it currently has a mana based magic system rather than the D&D slot thing.

[Memengwa]

I wonder why this discussion is in this subforum and not in the general "roleplaying", or what it's called.

 

Obviously, everyone that is present here, are waiting for NWN2, and will most probably play it.

 

People who are present on BioWare's forum and talk about Dragonage are most probably those interested in that game, and will most probably buy it.

 

If there are people who are present on both forums, they are probably interested in both, or/and trying to follow development of both products to see which one will be best suited to what they want. Or maybe even aquire both.

 

So obviously, I don't really see the reason behind this discussion. At least not on this subforum.

 

But that just my opinion *shrug*

[Baradhel]

At first I thought that Dragon Age was gonna be the better game, however now I'm not so sure. The more I think about it the more I think that they're not gonna be able to come up with a ruleset to top DnD's. The unpolished feel of NWN has somewhat shaken my faith in Bioware too.

 

There is always the possibility that a new setting just won't take off. While they have a singleplayer and multiplayer campaign, the multiplayer campaign is apparently just an adapted version of the SP campaign. They're not supporting PW's either, which I don't approve of at all.

 

But hey, we know little about either game and only time will tell.

[Tenjhotenge]

So obviously, I don't really see the reason behind this discussion. At least not on this subforum.

 

But that just my opinion *shrug*

 

 

Then don't take a part, it's that simple.

 

The more I think about it the more I think that they're not gonna be able to come up with a ruleset to top DnD's

 

I have started to think that too... if Dragon Age is anothet World of WarCraft then.. ngggh.

 

They're not supporting PW's either, which I don't approve of at all.

 

Ah, I waesn't aware of that. Whoa... that is so lame. PWs are much better than the actual game imo.

 

But hey, we know little about either game and only time will tell.

 

True. True. Nothing is certain yet.

[Memengwa]

So obviously, I don't really see the reason behind this discussion. At least not on this subforum.

 

But that just my opinion *shrug*

 

 

Then don't take a part, it's that simple.

 

I don't really understand your answer. Since that is the opion I have, I have the right to take a part of this thread.

 

You either agree or disagree with me. It's simple.

 

You might even think I'm stupid. You have the right to that opinion.

 

But don't tell me to shut up.

[Volourn]

Lots of misconceptions here.

 

DA has MP. DA also has a toolset. However, DA is more focused on the SP that either NWN1 or NWN2 will be. DA will support PWs as much as NWN1 did or NWN2 will most likely.

 

I'm looking forward to NWN2 because I love D&D, and I'm sure it'll be a pretty good game and since Obsdiian is focusing more on the OC than BIO did for NWN1; I believe the OC should be better than last time.

 

DA will also be cool. The rules system will probably make or break it though. Since we know very little about it though at the moment it's hard to judge the game.

 

NWN2 is a must buy. Knowing BIo; I'm sure DA is also a must buy.

 

 

 

"mana based magic system"

 

*PUKE* Absolutely disgusting.

[Tenjhotenge]

I don't really understand your answer. Since that is the opion I have, I have the right to take a part of this thread.

 

You either agree or disagree with me. It's simple.

 

You might even think I'm stupid. You have the right to that opinion.

 

But don't tell me to shut up.

 

I'm not saying you can't post but most threads, like this, are for those who are actually interested to share their views and want to debate and discuss. I waesn't looking for "This topic has no purpose" comments.

 

If you still don't know what I'm trying to say then maybe forums aren't meant for you.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

NWN2 is a must buy. Knowing BIo; I'm sure DA is also a must buy.

 

 

 

"mana based magic system"

 

*PUKE* Absolutely disgusting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Got you back for the AI henchmen in JE thing

[Diamond]

I'm not saying you can't post but most threads, like this, are for those who are actually interested to share their views and want to debate and discuss. I waesn't looking for "This topic has no purpose" comments.

 

If you still don't know what I'm trying to say then maybe forums aren't meant for you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would agree with Memengwa, everyone has the right for opinion, and her point was that people who are waiting for NWN2 will buy NWN2, people who want DA will buy DA, and people who want both will buy both, not "tis topic has no purpose".

 

And I would agree that this topic is in the wrong subforum (EDIT: while I was typing it the topic got moved ).

[Mendoza]

Volourn's got it pretty much right, although I don't agree that a mana system is necessarily bad (it'd have to be less regenerating that KotOR though, to avoid making spells spammy). DA has multiplayer, similar to what NWN had.

 

I'm looking forward to DA more, since I want to see what Bio can do when they're not restricted by a license and can design rules for a CRPG rather than adapting PnP rules. Whilst it's a very different game, I think Jade Empire will be a good way of seeing whether they can handle these things well.

 

I'll almost certainly be buying both (assuming no screw ups), but since NWN2 looks to be the same as NWN but with a new (and presumably better) story and prettier graphics, it doesn't excite me in quite the same way.

[213374U]

I'm not saying you can't post but most threads, like this, are for those who are actually interested to share their views and want to debate and discuss. I waesn't looking for "This topic has no purpose" comments.

 

If you still don't know what I'm trying to say then maybe forums aren't meant for you.

I wouldn't recommend telling people what's good for them and what's not. That kind of attitude is bound to draw flak, even more considering you have a Halo sig.

 

As for NWN2 vs DA, I will probably rent both of them first, then see if they are different enough from each other and previous CRPGs to buy any of them. I'm not too impressed with NWN2 since I found the original rather boring, but maybe DA will actually have something new to add to the genre.

 

And yes, I agree with Volourn. Mana-based magic system sucks. It reminds me of Diablo. *cringe*

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

And yes, I agree with Volourn. Mana-based magic system sucks. It reminds me of Diablo. *cringe*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's most peoples exposure to a mana based system. At least on here.

 

However the only real difference is that instead of having spell slots you will be able to cast whatever you want whenever you want , mana permitting.

 

So no more casting one fireball, resting to get it back, onto the next fight resting and so on.

 

It's a lot like KOTOR Jedi dont have to choose whether to memorise force push, OR force pull you can "cast" whichever you need as the situation dictates as long as you have force points to do it.

 

Mana systems are simply more versatile , the rest is in the implementation.

[Baradhel]

Lots of misconceptions here.

 

DA has MP. DA also has a toolset. However, DA is more focused on the SP that either NWN1 or NWN2 will be. DA will support PWs as much as NWN1 did or NWN2 will most likely.

 

I'm looking forward to NWN2 because I love D&D, and I'm sure it'll be a pretty good game and since Obsdiian is focusing more on the OC than BIO did for NWN1; I believe the OC should be better than last time.

 

DA will also be cool. The rules system will probably make or break it though. Since we know very little about it though at the moment it's hard to judge the game.

 

NWN2 is a must buy. Knowing BIo; I'm sure DA is also a must buy.

 

 

 

"mana based magic system"

 

*PUKE* Absolutely disgusting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bioware have never supported PW's, they were merely a side effect apparently. They have said that PW's might work with DA, they might not. Either way they aren't adding anything that will help PW makers, like Obsidian is apparently going to be doing.

[213374U]

And yes, I agree with Volourn. Mana-based magic system sucks. It reminds me of Diablo. *cringe*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's most peoples exposure to a mana based system. At least on here.

 

However the only real difference is that instead of having spell slots you will be able to cast whatever you want whenever you want , mana permitting.

 

So no more casting one fireball, resting to get it back, onto the next fight resting and so on.

 

It's a lot like KOTOR Jedi dont have to choose whether to memorise force push, OR force pull you can "cast" whichever you need as the situation dictates as long as you have force points to do it.

 

Mana systems are simply more versatile , the rest is in the implementation.

Um, yeah. That's the idea behind the sorcerer magic system in D&D, but with that system, spamming is prevented. My grudge with mana is that you can usually do stuff to replenish the mana pool in combat, thus allowing the spamming of spells. Spells are supposed to be elements of strategy and balance-tippers in a fight, not just 'the mage's sword'.

[Phosphor]

BioWare is now making a new role-playing game called Dragon Age. It has a world of it's own and it doesn't follow D&D rules = BioWare doesn't have to ask permission from WoTC for anything. I think BioWare has more money and time to put on Dragon Age than Obsidian has on NWN II. Which will be seen in the quality.

 

I agree having to consult a license holder and to have to work within their parameters may be restrictive, but then it can also help bring out something better than being able to cram in everything a developer's heart may desire.

In regards to money, it's a non-issue. Obsidian aren't funding NWN2, Atari are, and Atari are likely throwing a pretty big budget at NWN2 given that NWN was, and is, such a massive success.

 

All the happenings of NWN II take part in the city of Neverwinter, that doesn't  offer anything new, does it?  This has been said many times that Obsidian has a strict schelude and limited money to put on this game and they also have other projects on their way (KoTR II).

 

I must have missed all that. Nowhere have I seen the developers say that all the happenings of NWN2 take place in the titular city name, rather I have seen them say it's a focal point but by no means not the only location. I've also never seen anything that suggests Obsidian have a strict schedule and limited resources for NWN2, nor that the development of KOTOR2 took resources away from NWN2.

NWN2 has a two-year development cycle, which is generous, and now that KOTOR2 is done, team-members from that project will move on to NWN2, thereby adding resources, not taking away.

 

Knights of the Old Republic was also a game by Bioware. But why BioWare are giving all the sequels to Obsidian? Not that it bothers me but I have suspicions. Also, limited time and money will be seen in the quality. I'd say NWN II hits the stores around 2006-2008 but of course I can't know it and it may end up to be stores at 2010.

 

What suspicions? That Obsidian are well-regarded by their peers and being given KOTOR2 and NWN2 as their first projects will give them prestige and clout in the developer studio circles? Again, you refer to limited time and money which I see no basis in fact for such a claim.

NWN2 is scheduled for a 2006, whether it's out then or not I cannot predict, but I think it has a good chance of hitting the release date.

 

Dragon Age on the other hand offers a brand new world from a skilled team that is more flexible than NWN II. Also BioWare is helping out Obsidian with the toolset and stuff - so in my eyes it looks like Obsidian isn't as skilled as BioWare.  And also, it may be a cliche to say this but I think it's kinda true: "Sequels are never as good as the original ones".

 

How is Bioware more flexible and skilled than Obisidian? I rather think you need to take a look at the Obsidian team members and their collective background in game development. As for Bioware helping out, why not use an available resource? Bioware made the Aurora engine and certainly will be able to answer questions, which saves a heck of a lot of development time; if Obsidian can just phone or email Bioware and ask about something or for input, that can save days of trying to troubleshoot the problem. You commented that NWN2 may be late, and then criticise the judicious use of a time-saving resource. It's odd.

I tend to agree that sequels are never as good as the originals, but in the case of NWN, I'm guessing that adage won't apply. I mean, NWN was pretty weak, it'd be really hard to turn out something worse.

But again, I find you saying odd things; you lay accolades at the feet of Bioware while doubting Obisidian, yet Bioware did both BG and BG2, and if sequels are never as good as the original, by your logic how good can Bioware be?

 

I'm not trying to put NWN II down, I'm just trying to start a conversation about which one will be better. Personally, I'll buy them both anyway but which game I'll play is still a mystery but now I think Dragon Age has caught my interest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Which is fine, except you seem to be using your own speculation and mistaken conclusions rather than facts to determine which will be better, and it seems your mind is clearly already made up.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Um, yeah. That's the idea behind the sorcerer magic system in D&D, but with that system, spamming is prevented. My grudge with mana is that you can usually do stuff to replenish the mana pool in combat, thus allowing the spamming of spells. Spells are supposed to be elements of strategy and balance-tippers in a fight, not just 'the mage's  sword'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats only a consequence of it being used for Diablo not the mana system. It's really no different to how an Amazon uses arrows, or a Paladin uses zeal.

 

One character, you want to make sure that you dont have a lot of dead time. Add another 5 characters into the mix and put them all under the players control and spamming spells no longer becomes a factor. Restoring mana in combat is another thing entirely. One which having 6 characters should not require anyway anymore than IE wizards could burn through their spells in one or two encounters when thats the norm for NwN if your a wizard and you actually want to take an active combat role.

 

That may be your idea of what spells are, but it is by no means a universal truth