Filling in the plot holes at the end...

[Lumenadducere]

I think the "lack of a visible villain" thing was to try to make the plot twist more effective. Besides, Sion and Nihilus (or however you spell 'em) were both linked to Kreia in certain ways, Sion cares for her, shown by his jealousy towards her preference for you over him, and Nihilus in a way uses her to help feed his hunger.

 

Not knowing what was going on villain-wise was, I believe, to try and get the Planescape: Tormet effect where you try and figure out who the heck you are and what the heck is going on with you. I believe the whole point of KotOR II was more of a personal quest with your character than it was a "save the galaxy" quest like KotOR I...though don't worry, with the unnamed remaining Sith Lords I'm sure KotOR III will be lots of saving the galaxy...

 

Are you guys sure KotOR III hasn't been announced? I was sure I recalled LucasArts releasing something on it being planned or announced, but they didn't know who the developer would be...

[jaguars4ever]

Alright folks, first let me thank you all for this truly amazing thread - keep up the good work boiler and co.

 

Now for some of my unanswerd questions, :

• In K1, when Canderous tells you something akin to "Before retreating within their Empire, the Sith approached us with an offfer - to fight a war that will be remembered....", or somesuch.
   
  Now who are these Sith?
   
  If they are Revan & his Sith, it suggest he almost planned out the Mandalorian Wars in order to mask his war of conversion (parallels to palpatine's manipulation). Ooooh.... :cool:
   
  Or were these Sith the "True Sith Threat" that is lurking on the edge of the galaxy, waiting to strike? Ooooh.... :cool:
  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

• Similarly, is the "secret" that Ajunta Pall spoke of merely the Starforge, or somehing more insidious relating to the 'True sith Threat'? Yet more ooooh....
  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

• Also, why was Kreia apprehensive and subsequently refused to set foot on Korriban's surface?
   
  Do you think being in the presence of such a Dark Side world revert her to her Darth Treya status? (i.e paler face, white-->black eyes, black checkers on her lekku head tails).
  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

• Further, how was the Jedi Academy on Dantooine restored to it's fomer beauty & glory? Both Kreia and the Jedi Masters seemed to be perplexed about this.
  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

• Concerning the Dantooine Academy, why was Kreia weakened upon entering and 'needed to center herself' near the 'Room of a Thousand Fountains' or whatever is was called?
   
  Could this be the converse of Korriban, in that such Light Side presense is overwhelming?
  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

So many questions, so few answers....

 

:: says to self that K3 wil fix everying while rocking back & forth hitting head against the wall :: :ph34r:

[Grooben]

Lets just hope that Bioware does any future KOTOR releases, that any future KOTORs also have HK-47 actually in more than 10-20% of the game (how long did I get with HK-47? Exactly enough time to do jack).

 

Now I love Black Isle, but if Bioware still is of the opinion giving KOTOR2 to Obsidian was wise, I see dark times looming ahead for gamers of all platforms.

 

I cannot possibly conceive of a good reason to play KOTOR2 a second time. I played evil, and absolutely nothing made sense ever.

Why goto the bridge to kill Nihilus if I'm just blowing up the bloody ship anyway?

 

Why not let Kreia win? I have no complaints to that (obvious reason why, Obsidian opted for a plot option that'd ruin LucasArts' Star Wars continuity, and thus were forced with only one option. Great idea).

 

My KOTOR love interest joined me, yet in KOTOR2 Kreia predicts Handmaiden attemps to forget me. What a sense of accomplishment. If I couldn't manage to jumble together my purpose, at least I failed at love. Woohoo!

 

More irritating wookiees! Can I get a party FULL of those irritating beasts, please?

Sure, they may be neat to some people, but really all they are is big, loud, annoying tribals. Nothing against tribals, but at least tribals will kill me for more valid reasons.

 

Nothing is explained. Nothing is logical. Nothing in KOTOR2 except the pleasant lack of Carth made it worth my 22 hours.

There are some imporvements which are nice, I admit. Nothing exceedingly exceptional, though.

 

Not only did I never understand plot-wise what was going on, I also never understood what I was supposed to be doing. Tracking down Jedi Masters, sure, why? Information about my exile? What do I care? Not much, apparently, I never really found out any good solid information.

 

I'll hope that it's way better on PC, and keep hoping till I'm proven correct or wrong...

 

*prays to Bioware*

[Boiler98]

Now I love Black Isle, but if Bioware still is of the opinion giving KOTOR2 to Obsidian was wise, I see dark times looming ahead for gamers of all platforms.

BioWare had nothing to do with giving Obsidian KotOR2. LucasArts owns KotOR. BioWare developed the first, Obsidian the second. LucasArts will probably find a different third party developer for the third, who can do it even cheaper.

 

I cannot possibly conceive of a good reason to play KOTOR2 a second time.  I played evil, and absolutely nothing made sense ever.

Although little makes sense, a second play through does help to ease the pains of the plot holes. Only shortly into my 2nd game I've already been able to get further with several player dialogs, because I know how to minipulate them now.

 

Amazingly, several plot holes have already started to fill in. Though I am not in the least bit happy that they thought placing major plot points in optional dialog was a good idea.

 

More irritating wookiees!  Can I get a party FULL of those irritating beasts, please?

Play LS.

 

Nothing is explained.  Nothing is logical.  Nothing in KOTOR2 except the pleasant lack of Carth made it worth my 22 hours.

Play again, as a LS character for all three of those points. Carth is in the game.

 

22 hours!? That's a little short. While I will be the last person to stand up and exclaim that the story to KotOR2 was well constructed, 22 hours is nothing! Play again and take your time. It took me 43 hours my first game to piece together my dislike for the storyline -- in 22 hours, you have less then half the story that most other people do.

 

I'd play again, maybe an hour every other day, and take your time! Visit the "Influence Guide" post and learn how to manage your party members so you can get more dialog with them. Take the time to wonder around and talk with NPCs so you get more of the story.

 

Not only did I never understand plot-wise what was going on, I also never understood what I was supposed to be doing.  Tracking down Jedi Masters, sure, why?

This part is actually pretty clear in the story. The Sith are hunting Jedi, "from the shadows" -- they are fighting a sort of gorilla warefare and are doing very well at it, so the Jedi are hiding. If the threat is to be stopped, the Jedi Masters must be found. If you are DS, that's what Sith do... kill Jedi.

 

I'll hope that it's way better on PC, and keep hoping till I'm proven correct or wrong...

Story isn't going to be any different.

[mrtauntaun]

Nothing is explained. Nothing is logical. Nothing in KOTOR2 except the pleasant lack of Carth made it worth my 22 hours.

 

I would respectfully submit the reason a lot of things didn't make sense is because you raced through the game in 22 hours. Talk to more people, your party most of all, and more things will begin to make sense. Not to defend the ending or plot, was still upset with it, but it WILL make more sense if you take your time.

[Brannart]

Nothing is explained.  Nothing is logical.  Nothing in KOTOR2 except the pleasant lack of Carth made it worth my 22 hours.

There are some imporvements which are nice, I admit.  Nothing exceedingly exceptional, though.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Have you read this thread? Does that clarify anything?

[Daryzun Zha]

Maybe this was already brought up somewhere...

I played as LS Jedi and when I fought Darth Sion he said something along the lines of "You will perish like the one that came before you", with regards to whomever visited Mal 5 last.  Does this refer to Revan? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I took it to refer to Sion himself, as well as Nihilus.

When you first fight Sion on Korriban, he makes the following statement (I don't recall the exact quotation, but here is the approximation):

"I will kill you to spare you what she will do to you", "she" meaning Kreia.

When I played the game through my first time, I was DS, so I went to Korriban as soon as I could travel off of Telos. This made me understand pretty early in the game that Kreia was trying to screw me over somehow. Especially when a supposedly evil Sith Lord told me that I would be better off mercifully killed by him than have to deal with the creepy woman back on my ship. Perhaps I am not up to date on my Sith doctrine, but I am fairly certain "mercy" is not part of the deal.

 

So when I combined that statement with the "you will perish like the one before you", I decided that Sion is talking about his own failure.

After all, Sion and Nihilus ultimately failed to escape from fulfilling Kreia's plan. When they struck her down, they thought they were free of her and could now go on and be prosperous, tyrannical Sith Lords in their own right.

However, Nihilus just got hungrier and more desperate, and in the end, Kreia tricked him into attacking Telos, which resulted in him being weak enough to be easily trounced.

Sion also thought he could do his own thing - until Kreia came back, beat him into submission for betraying her, and forced him to do her bidding - again. That makes him believe still that you, the Exile, would be better off killed by him than have to face Kreia, because you cannot escape her plan either, and are thus doomed to fail just like he did.

[Grooben]

Oh I didn't really race through it so much. I just can't cope with Xbox controls. My guy kept bashing even though he had security. So when I'd broken 70% of all the items in the game, I got to the point that I stopped paying attention and started mauling things to death/openness. I can't stand lightside, Carth, or Kreia. They're all unnatural, creepy, and I simply can't handle being good. Carth needs to be smacked upside the head, Kreia needs to wear pants, and lightside needs to stop letting people "live". (ooh, idle citizen! CRUSH...CRUSH....CRUSH....CRUSH...)

 

Bioware handed off the opportunity for Kotor2, and NWN2, so they could focus on Jade Empire.

 

Black Isle - black hunk of rock

Obsidian - black rock

Too convenient, ok? Obsidian = lovechild of Bioware.

[jaguars4ever]

My playthrough took me 87 hours.

[Boiler98]

I think we've determined that 22 hours is not nearly enough time to have spent in the game to adequately critique the game. Kind of like the people who say the ending is fine, but haven't finished the game.

[Kazic]

I agree with boiler completely.

 

I got an interesting convo with sion because of my high persuade and because I said the right things to him to erode his will.

 

He says that you are his final test and with you dead kreia will accept him as her apprentice against "As it should be" or something like that. Anyone else get that?

[Charles Vrike]

that was no ending that was a cliff hanger you will have to wait for the 3rd (if it comes out.) for an ending. and that still might not be an ending.

[jaguars4ever]

that was no ending that was a cliff hanger you will have to wait for the 3rd (if it comes out.) for an ending. and that still might not be an ending.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is why you refer to my following post " :

 

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=27534

[Master Veq-Riin]

I, too, was horribly disappointed by the ending (I played as LS female). Whether or not there will be a KotOR III is irrelevant, because as someone already mentioned, the game should be able to stand on its own. Too much resolution would leave nothing for us to reflect upon, but, as is the case with KotOR II, too many holes leave players guessing, which a well-developed story shouldn't do.

 

Oh, where to begin? OK, I'll tackle Kreia's motive. In this post, anyway. :D

 

Although Kreia suggests that you can follow Revan's path, this does not mean that you literally track Revan down. For some reason, I convinced myself that Revan is dead (maybe because I was still hoping for another Carth romance). As such, when she suggests following Revan's path, I interpreted it as taking the same space lane in a figurative sense--maybe to continue where Revan left off, searching for the underlying cause of the Mandalorian Wars. Kreia, Sion, and Nihilus could have been what Revan searches for at the end of KotOR--the larger threat that s/he senses but can't recall because of the mindwipe.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that Kreia engineered the entire situation out of revenge. Perhaps that's what spurred the idea, but throughout the game, she remains neutral (she was cast out by both the Jedi and the Sith, after all). By the end, what she wants is for people to face the truth--that Force sensitives can choose to live a life without it; that this is the very reason the Council was frightened by the Exile and the real reason you were banished. The Jed lived their entire lives using the Force as a "crutch," so to speak and couldn't imagine leading a life without it.

 

Kreia also wants you to face the truth about yourself--that you defied the will of the Force and chose to forge your own path by turning away not just from the dark side, but from the Force itself. After having been rejected by both the dark and light sides, she envies your ability to do this--not maliciously, but in more of a wistful manner.

 

One of the things I have trouble reconciling is that, if the Exile is such an inspiration and able to influence others, how is that different from Revan? In KotOR, characters continually remark on Revan's abiliity to gain loyalty. In KotOR II, they say the same about you. Additionally, everyone, including the Masters, comments on how strong you are in the Force. Wouldn't that make you more powerful, or at the very least, equal to Revan?

 

This is why I chose the response that the reason I went to the Mandalorian Wars was not to follow Revan, but because I made a choice to protect the innocent. This is also why, when the Mandalorians were defeated and the threat to others extinguished, my character returned to the Council instead of following the Sith.

 

I imagine that the Sith teachings Revan studied on Malachor referred to the Rakatans and the Star Forge. Anyone who controlled it would have the potential to conquer the galaxy as the Rakatans had done in the past, and the best course of action was to destroy it. Unfortunately, Revan was corrupted along the way, when she realized the extent of the power that the Star Forge held.

 

In addition, Kreia implies that she was Revan's first Master, and I believe she says that at the end of Revan's training (which coincides with the end of the Mandalorian Wars?), Revan returned to his/her original Master. Presumably, Kreia was already on Malachor and had already established the Trayus Academy, since she does acknowledge her participation in the Mandalorian Wars, which would explain her presence on Malachor.

 

By teaching Revan about the Star Forge, Kreia could have begun leading Revan down a dark path, without Revan necessarily realizing it. Perhaps Kreia knew that Revan would be overcome by the Star Forge, and subsequently, become Kreia's apprentice. At the beginning of KotOR, Revan had already been defeated by Malak. This implies that Sion and Nihilus already rejected Kreia, but because they chose to remain in "the shadows," Revan became the Dark Lord.

 

Following Revan's path at the end of KotOR II could be that of redemption--the Jedi Order's. At this point in time, many Republic citizens fear the Jedi because of their inability (or unwillingness) to distinguish the Jedi from the Sith. That your character has the power to inspire followers enables you to rebuild the Academy (not necessarily on Dantooine or Telos--the Jedi Academy in the larger sense), thus redeeming the Jedi in the Republic's eyes. Conversely, you can establish a Sith empire.

 

However, when conflating KotOR II with the Star Wars canon, it makes sense that, if the Exile chooses to continue a life with the ability to feel the Force, s/he re-establishes the Order. By the time of the Clone Wars, the Jedi were once again in good standing with the Republic, so someone had to have convinced the rest of the galaxy that Jedi = good. Finally, the Sith were believed to be non-existent, which reinforces the possibillity that the Exile restores the Order.

 

----------

 

Questions:

 

--Why was Malachor a cultural taboo to the Mandalorians?

 

--Are there female Mandalorians?

 

--If you play as an LS female, you don't see Bastila in the cut scene. Does this mean that she, or at least Jolee and Juhani, were killed in Katarr along with Zhar, Dorak, and Vandar? I find it hard to believe that Jolee would have exiled himself again after the events of the Star Forge (assuming you played LS).

 

--Is the reason your safe arrival on Telos such a high priority is so Carth can ask if you've seen Revan because he's so lovesick (again, if you're female)? Wouldn't that be an abuse of power?

 

--What were you doing on the Harbinger in the first place?

 

--Another reason I believe Revan is dead is because I can't imagine him/her giving up the Ebon Hawk without a fight. Nor can I see Revan putting it up for collateral in a pazaak game. So how did Kreia end up with it? Unless Revan did bet the Hawk on pazaak and lost to Kreia.

 

--Was anyone else reminded of the Phoenix myth when the Hawk (coincidentally another feathered being) miraculously rose from the ashes of Malachor?

 

--Why does Vrook tell you that he's unfamiliar with Force bonds (isn't that what he said?), when that was the premise of reviving Revan in KotOR?

 

--Nihilus attacks Citadel Station with a Sith fleet, doesn't he? So why is Azkul a merc? Also, if he was trained at "Malak's Academy," wouldn't he have Force powers?

 

----------

 

Erm...thanks for reading this far.

[darthillinovex]

I find it interesting that the way they delt with the multiple plot options of the original in the second game was by not mentioning them altogether. That irritated me. It wasn't so much a continuation of the first as it was a completely different one with cameos.

 

I must say though, I am very anxious to find out what happened to Revan. I'm worried that if there is a third installment of the game, there will be no additional information on Revan or the Excile. I need to know! I spent HUNDREDS of hours playing as these characters. They shouldn't be thrown away. If there is a third, I would REQUIRE that both Revan and the Excile play a MAJOR ROLE in the plot.

 

DON'T KEEP SENDING THEM TO UNEXPLORED REGIONS TO DEAL WITH UNKNOWN THREATS!!!!

(In fact, no new characters until the fate of the originals is delt with appropriately.)

[Grooben]

It didn't really occur to me that I had to spend the vast majority of a week playing a game just in order to have opinions about it.

 

Nevermind that though, I dwell in a free country and at 22 hours or 122 hours, I can develop and express my opinions. That you *HAVE* to play for a set period of time in order to be taken seriously is ridiculous. However, that's how you want to float so go for it.

 

Lame as all hell. Lame game, lame people who think I need to spend 40+ hours to determine a game I've already determined as crap to be crap, lame lameness.

 

Next time I find a poor sequel of a game (any one of the slew of turds EA considers games) I'll be sure to play it for a few months before I determine it's crap, just for you.

 

Come on people, I don't need to know 100% of the stuff in KOTOR2 to have figured out that it's a huge letdown. Frankly, 22 hours is a fair amount of test time to determine it's worthiness. I beat KOTOR in a similar amount of time my first time, and I proceeded to replay KOTOR about 8 times. Set your bars at 40+, I enjoy free time, not being a slave.

[DrSpock]

This game is hugely disappointing and has enourmous plot holes. There are TONS of bugs, some so blantently obvious it makes me wonder if this game had any beta-testing at all, and plot holes so big Arnold could drive his Hummer through them .

 

Absolutely nothing is explained, and absolutely nothing makes sense. After I finished the game I was in shock at just how bad the ending was. As previously mentioned, Mira and G0-T0 were on Malachor 5 for what purpose? Neither of their stories are resolved, leaving you to wonder if the guys down at Obsidian were drunk when they made the ending to this game.

 

All 3 Darth's have 0 story to them, you're left to guess and postulate for yourself what their purpose in the game is. The "twist" is that you are the hole in the force, and that you must be stopped and when the Masters attempt to, Kriea kills them. Atris procedes to tell you that Kreia seeks the death of the force, which she plans to accomplish, how? Then you proceed to kill all the Sith Lords, and Kreia, despite the fact Atris mentioned earlier that Kreia would kill you by killing herself if you did not go to Malachor 5. So all of a sudden that little detail is forgotten and you're able to kill Kreia huh?

 

All these things notwithstanding, we end the game by flying away. Wow, how exciting. I can see what I accomplished in this game. The other little fact that you're the hole in the force and you must be stopped is completely forgotten about, and you fly away happily with your crew.

 

Also, can someone explain to me why Bastila is in this game? The holo-image in T3 and the one on Korriban are OK, but why is she still alive in the present? Yet again, Obsidian chose to ignore the fact the you and the Masters are the last of the Jedi, and instead give the impression that the Sith Lords are mentally retarded, because they completely forgot about Bastila and that she is a Jedi!

 

Some other great holes are:

 

What happened to the HK-50 factory you were supposed to find?

 

What is G0-T0's purpose in this game other than being a gaping plot hole in the end?

 

What is the Shadowmaker, why does Obsidian all of a sudden throw this in the game when it is never previously mentioned, even in the tips during loading.

 

Why does Atris all of the sudden became darkside at the end?

 

Why are you lead to believe she used to posesse romantic feelings for you when this story never goes anywhere?

 

Why does she have your lightsaber, and how come you can't get it back since she does have it? (If you can and I'm just missing this someone please tell me)

 

What is the point of helping Canderous (Mandalore) find other Mandalorians and bring them to his moon?

 

Why is Revan mentioned so much throughout the game, about his journey's beyond Republic space and what he could possibely be seeking, and then end up having 0 effect on the plot in the long run?

 

And I can't forget...

 

WHO IS KREIA? Why is she just there at the beginning of the game? How come the mining facility's crew thought she was dead, when she isn't? Are they blind or something?

 

This game is just so unfufilling, not to mention easy as cake. Of course, there are improvements to your feats and force powers, and the added bonus from maxing out light or dark is nice, but what the hell was Obsidian thinking when they made this game? Bioware better do the next one, because I probably won't buy it if Obsidian tried to craft another train wreck of a story like this one. Seriously, I think my 12 year old sister could make a better ending...

[Jedi_Master_Darkor]

This game is hugely disappointing and has enourmous plot holes. There are TONS of bugs, some so blantently obvious it makes me wonder if this game had any beta-testing at all, and plot holes so big Arnold could drive his Hummer through them  .

 

Absolutely nothing is explained, and absolutely nothing makes sense. After I finished the game I was in shock at just how bad the ending was. As previously mentioned, Mira and G0-T0 were on Malachor 5 for what purpose? Neither of their stories are resolved, leaving you to wonder if the guys down at Obsidian were drunk when they made the ending to this game.

 

All 3 Darth's have 0 story to them, you're left to guess and postulate for yourself what their purpose in the game is. The "twist" is that you are the hole in the force, and that you must be stopped and when the Masters attempt to, Kriea kills them. Atris procedes to tell you that Kreia seeks the death of the force, which she plans to accomplish, how? Then you proceed to kill all the Sith Lords, and Kreia, despite the fact Atris mentioned earlier that Kreia would kill you by killing herself if you did not go to Malachor 5. So all of a sudden that little detail is forgotten and you're able to kill Kreia huh?

 

All these things notwithstanding, we end the game by flying away. Wow, how exciting. I can see what I accomplished in this game. The other little fact that you're the hole in the force and you must be stopped is completely forgotten about, and you fly away happily with your crew.

 

Also, can someone explain to me why Bastila is in this game? The holo-image in T3 and the one on Korriban are OK, but why is she still alive in the present? Yet again, Obsidian chose to ignore the fact the you and the Masters are the last of the Jedi, and instead give the impression that the Sith Lords are mentally retarded, because they completely forgot about Bastila and that she is a Jedi!

 

Some other great holes are:

 

What happened to the HK-50 factory you were supposed to find?

 

What is G0-T0's purpose in this game other than being a gaping plot hole in the end?

 

What is the Shadowmaker, why does Obsidian all of a sudden throw this in the game when it is never previously mentioned, even in the tips during loading.

 

Why does Atris all of the sudden became darkside at the end?

 

Why are you lead to believe she used to posesse romantic feelings for you when this story never goes anywhere?

 

Why does she have your lightsaber, and how come you can't get it back since she does have it? (If you can and I'm just missing this someone please tell me)

 

What is the point of helping Canderous (Mandalore) find other Mandalorians and bring them to his moon?

 

Why is Revan mentioned so much throughout the game, about his journey's beyond Republic space and what he could possibely be seeking, and then end up having 0 effect on the plot in the long run?

 

And I can't forget...

 

WHO IS KREIA? Why is she just there at the beginning of the game? How come the mining facility's crew thought she was dead, when she isn't? Are they blind or something?

 

This game is just so unfufilling, not to mention easy as cake. Of course, there are improvements to your feats and force powers, and the added bonus from maxing out light or dark is nice, but what the hell was Obsidian thinking when they made this game? Bioware better do the next one, because I probably won't buy it if Obsidian tried to craft another train wreck of a story like this one. Seriously, I think my 12 year old sister could make a better ending...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No offense meant, but this was all Lucasarts' fault. They should have set a later deadline so that Obsidian could have added the HK factory, obtaining your old lightsaber, good ending...

[jaguars4ever]

This game is hugely disappointing and has enourmous plot holes. There are TONS of bugs, some so blantently obvious it makes me wonder if this game had any beta-testing at all, and plot holes so big Arnold could drive his Hummer through them  .

 

Absolutely nothing is explained, and absolutely nothing makes sense. After I finished the game I was in shock at just how bad the ending was. As previously mentioned, Mira and G0-T0 were on Malachor 5 for what purpose? Neither of their stories are resolved, leaving you to wonder if the guys down at Obsidian were drunk when they made the ending to this game.

 

All 3 Darth's have 0 story to them, you're left to guess and postulate for yourself what their purpose in the game is. The "twist" is that you are the hole in the force, and that you must be stopped and when the Masters attempt to, Kriea kills them. Atris procedes to tell you that Kreia seeks the death of the force, which she plans to accomplish, how? Then you proceed to kill all the Sith Lords, and Kreia, despite the fact Atris mentioned earlier that Kreia would kill you by killing herself if you did not go to Malachor 5. So all of a sudden that little detail is forgotten and you're able to kill Kreia huh?

 

All these things notwithstanding, we end the game by flying away. Wow, how exciting. I can see what I accomplished in this game. The other little fact that you're the hole in the force and you must be stopped is completely forgotten about, and you fly away happily with your crew.

 

Also, can someone explain to me why Bastila is in this game? The holo-image in T3 and the one on Korriban are OK, but why is she still alive in the present? Yet again, Obsidian chose to ignore the fact the you and the Masters are the last of the Jedi, and instead give the impression that the Sith Lords are mentally retarded, because they completely forgot about Bastila and that she is a Jedi!

 

Some other great holes are:

 

What happened to the HK-50 factory you were supposed to find?

 

What is G0-T0's purpose in this game other than being a gaping plot hole in the end?

 

What is the Shadowmaker, why does Obsidian all of a sudden throw this in the game when it is never previously mentioned, even in the tips during loading.

 

Why does Atris all of the sudden became darkside at the end?

 

Why are you lead to believe she used to posesse romantic feelings for you when this story never goes anywhere?

 

Why does she have your lightsaber, and how come you can't get it back since she does have it? (If you can and I'm just missing this someone please tell me)

 

What is the point of helping Canderous (Mandalore) find other Mandalorians and bring them to his moon?

 

Why is Revan mentioned so much throughout the game, about his journey's beyond Republic space and what he could possibely be seeking, and then end up having 0 effect on the plot in the long run?

 

And I can't forget...

 

WHO IS KREIA? Why is she just there at the beginning of the game? How come the mining facility's crew thought she was dead, when she isn't? Are they blind or something?

 

This game is just so unfufilling, not to mention easy as cake. Of course, there are improvements to your feats and force powers, and the added bonus from maxing out light or dark is nice, but what the hell was Obsidian thinking when they made this game? Bioware better do the next one, because I probably won't buy it if Obsidian tried to craft another train wreck of a story like this one. Seriously, I think my 12 year old sister could make a better ending...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No offense meant, but this was all Lucasarts' fault. They should have set a later deadline so that Obsidian could have added the HK factory, obtaining your old lightsaber, good ending...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to mention the lack of the whole Hanharr-Mira resolution thing. :ph34r:

[envida]

What happened to the HK-50 factory you were supposed to find?

This was left out beacuse of the the release date being pushed up. Confirmed by Akari.

 

What is G0-T0's purpose in this game other than being a gaping plot hole in the end?

Talk to him and you'll find out.

 

What is the Shadowmaker, why does Obsidian all of a sudden throw this in the game when it is never previously mentioned, even in the tips during loading.

No idea.

 

Why does Atris all of the sudden became darkside at the end?

She doenst suddenly become darkside, it is pretty much hinted at all along. Even Kreia says she's not a jedi, which implies that she is a sith.

 

Why are you lead to believe she used to posesse romantic feelings for you when this story never goes anywhere?

Why does it have to go anywhere? Not everything have to be resolved...

 

Why does she have your lightsaber, and how come you can't get it back since she does have it? (If you can and I'm just missing this someone please tell me)

 

What is the point of helping Canderous (Mandalore) find other Mandalorians and bring them to his moon?

This also probably beacues they didn't have time to finish it. Which sucks

 

WHO IS KREIA? Why is she just there at the beginning of the game? How come the mining facility's crew thought she was dead, when she isn't? Are they blind or something?

Did you even play the game? This is pretty much explained in the game.

 

But I agree this game seems awfully unfinished and rushed....

[DrSpock]

Kreia is not explained in the game, at all. Other then her obviously being a Sith both previously and currently and sometime in the past having been a Jedi also, she has no backstory whatsoever. She was Revan's teacher, apparently, and I suppose it is assumed she joined the dark side when he did, but other than this there is no story for her and she is just an evil witch who follows you around. And... like I said before, there is no explanation for why they believed her dead when she was not.

 

As far as Atris goes, it would make absolutely no sense that she is a Sith. She believes she is preserving the Jedi ways, and she teaches her handmaidens the same type of peity. True, she is somewhat emotional, but that is far from being a Sith. Anakin is VERY emotional in episode 2 although he has not yet embraced the darkside or even considered it, there is a huge difference between the 2 things.

 

And for Obsidian not having enough time... That may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that these things remain plot holes. The game is not only rushed but sloppily done, as I pointed out in my previous post. The lack of time does not account for the sheer level of imcompetance displayed with the many problems in the storyline.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I'd have to agree with everyone who said it was a pretty good game up until the ending. I'm actually relieved it was that game and not just me. I finished it and was like "wait, did i miss a cutscene or something?" Lucasarts definately needs to let the developers off the leash if they want truly great games. I think Obsidian did a fine job considering what they had to accomplish. However, I wouldn't mind seeing Bioware do KOTOR 3 using the new Jade Empire engine. Graphically enhanced Bastilla....sigh

[jaguars4ever]

The game is not only rushed but sloppily done, as I pointed out in my previous post.

Speaking of "sloppily done", how many of you guys hated the fact they didn't update Handmaiden's & Visas' dialogue options, even after the defeat of Atris & Nihilus respectively? Very unsettling. <_<

[Master Veq-Riin]

And... like I said before, there is no explanation for why they believed her dead when she was not.

She could have used the Breath Control power. Right before you go into the Jarr Jarr Tekk she tells you that some Jedi have been able to hold their breath for days, which suggests that she can do it.

 

*shrug*

 

Speaking of "sloppily done", how many of you guys hated the fact they didn't update Handmaiden & Visas' dialogue options, even after the defeat of Atris &

Agreed, and I even played as a female. I'm going through a second time now to see if I can complete all the side quests (such as they are), and I'm tired of having only 2 or 3 options of questions to ask Visas. The lack of dialogue gives me the impression that she's just Nihilus's messenger. Big deal. I'd at least like to learn something from the people in my party.

 

It's really too bad that LucasArts set such a short deadline. I remember being surprised when I first heard the release date, and that this actually came out "on time." Rebel Commando was supposed to come out last September, so I figured that KotOR II would be late, too.

[Master Veq-Riin]

As far as Atris goes, it would make absolutely no sense that she is a Sith. She believes she is preserving the Jedi ways, and she teaches her handmaidens the same type of peity. True, she is somewhat emotional, but that is far from being a Sith.

Doesn't Kreia criticize her for not being able to face the truth, or admitting the truth, something like that? By immersing herself in Sith teachings, Atris could easily have deluded herself into thinking that she was learning how the "other half lives," without realizing that she'd fallen nor caring to admit it.

 

A lot of Jedi (Ulic Qel-Droma, Quinlan Vos, Luke Skywalker, et al.) believed they could conquer the Sith by studying their ways, even infiltrating their camps. Of these three, Luke was the only one who survived; Ulic lost his Force powers; and it still remains to be seen what will happen to Quin.

 

Being a Jedi historian and exposed to Sith studies certainly leaves Atris open to, if not being a Sith, then at the very least, a dark Jedi.

 

As far as teaching any sort of Jedi piety to the Handmaidens, well, based on the circular argument in the dialogue (non-Force sensitives are to guard the Jedi; so who guards the non-Force sensitives? Atris, because she's a Jedi, etc.), the Handmaidens are nothing more than tools who blindly follow their leader.

 

This is part of the main plot theme--that the Exile did what s/he (and many others) knew was right, in spite of the Council's decision to wait before fighting in the Mandalorian Wars. In addition, the Jedi Masters could/would not admit the possibility of being wrong. By believing themselves infallible, which Atris is not exempt from, they bring about their own downfall. Jedi are not perfect.