Filling in the plot holes at the end...

[Boiler98]

I just finished playing, as a light side female, and don't know what the heck happened. I feel absolutely no sense of accomplishment in having done anything but solved a lot of little problems and killed a whole lot of people. Nothing seemed to be answered.

 

1) Darth Nihilis. His point in the story was... what? Sure I *thought* he was the new Lord of the Sith, or something similar, which was causing all this trouble. When you run into him, he is nothing. What he is, why he is doing what he is, his background with Visas (and her background with him)... never explained. He just ends up being nothing other then one more person I have to kill.

 

2) Darth Sion. Led to believe he is in charge of a different sect of Sith. See him, along with Nihilis, defeat Kreia in a cut scene and watch him cut off her hand. Only to suddenly be Kreia's student again... what!?

 

3) Atris. I spoke with Atris at the end, getting a dialog option to the effect of "You have fallen to the Dark Side, you must realize that" -- when I myself haven't realized that. We see (or hear about) her 4 times. (1) at the beginning, no indication she has fallen. (2) Kreia talks about her, with no indication she has fallen or is heading down that path. (3) The second time we see her, *bam* we suddenly know she has somehow fallen. (4) At the end when Kreia talks about having to stop Atris' teachings... huh? ...exactly what teachings are these?

 

4) Your shipmates on Malachor V.

-- Boa-Dur is implied to be dead, based on how I saw it. Is he, is he not? He tells Remote to activate some big bomb thing that I never remember hearing about. They the GO-?? driod flies in and talk about preventing the worlds destruction. The story is left at that. Nothing more.

-- Mira. Kreia seems to indicate that she is a threat to her plans... first, *what plans* and second, all she does if fight Hanharr and it is left at that. Huh!?

-- I guess I just have to take Kreia's word that everything turns out a-okay for all the rest.

 

5) The Eban Hawk. Falls into a pit, and suddenly rises from one to save me. Ya... okay, very open ended but I'll live with it.

 

6) The Jedi Masters. So I'm exiled because I lost the connection with the Force because the Jedi Masters see fear some huge disconnect in the Force. I go through all this work to find them all, to "combat the Sith threat", only to have them judge me again and strip my power again?

 

7) The Ending. I have a choice to "follow Revan", "return to exile" or go back to my friends (or something). None of which have any effect on the ending (I tried them all). Kreia talks about the "greater Sith threat" that Revan discovered and went off to fight -- aside from telling me why I can't talk to Reven in KotOR II, what does this accomplish? No matter what option is choosen, the ending is that of the Eban Hawk flying off alone into a nebula. How bloody anti-climatic... I got to see a fleet destroyed, the Star Forge destroyed and I got a medal in KotOR I. I get to see myself fly into a nebula for KotOR II.

 

Kreia... and the twisted thing at the end I think was supposed to be the plot... I'm just lost here. So, was all this about Kreia just getting the chance to kill everyone who crossed her? Wasn't she trying to create some huge void in the force? Wasn't I bonded to her, and very uncertain about the effect he death would have (backed up by Atris' hint that Kreia is willing to kill herself to kill me to accomplish her goals)? I seemed to get the impression, eventually, that I was somehow the key to unraveling the Force... and then the story just ends up pittering out, leaving that point behind.

 

I'm lost. The point of KotOR II seems to be a chance to see what a few folks from KotOR I are doing 10 years, see some of the effects the war had, with a bunch of quests and bad people to kill in order to make it last 40 hours.

 

What exactly did I just save the galaxy from?

[Tainted Mustard]

I agree. I don't know how anyone can compare this ending to Planescape: Torment on anything but a superficial level. There's absolutely no emotional closure - for anyone.

 

Another thing: I don't really care about 'saving the Galaxy' - there will *always* be the Dark Side and there will always be Sith. I just would have preferred something more satisfying - such as interacting with my party members once more before the end, and *then* seeing the final sequence. Some closure with them would have at least kept me sated until KotOR 3.

[Lord Satasn]

Sadly, I agree, when I read reviews I was like how could the ending be bad...and then bam, out of nowhere the game just ends, wihtout any closure....I was kinda pissed, I didt it darkside male pc and revan darkside male.

 

Sion and Nihilus were sooooo ****in underdeveloped characters it was depressing....you didn't know anythign about them at all!

 

I mean, the game was much better than kotor 1 and all the things and the storyline was better, its just that they didnt go where they could have with the story....and that was a big mistake by their devs.

 

But it does leave a good story for kotor 3....I'll be looking forward to that, but I wish the cutscenes at the end were better....and we knew a few things about the MAIN BAD GUY WHOS FACE WAS PUMPED ON EVERYTHING FOR THE LONGEST TIME AND THEN U DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIM IN THE GAME AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (nihilus)

 

sigh.....

 

Also, where the hell is the droid chassis for hk47, how did anyone get him, and can u get him early?

And how did ppl get the message from bastilla in t3...I never saw that....

[Tainted Mustard]

Elsewhere on these forums, I expressed my utter disappointment with Kreia's predictions of the future. I like to think that this was done just in case KotOR 3 doesn't come out. I feel like Obsidian abandoned the characters before they had a chance for them to come out into their own. It seemed like it was put in as an afterthought. What's worse is that the main character isn't even given an opportunity to respond to her predictions. No closure for any of the characters at all. I hope some of them make an appearance in KotOR 3.

 

What does everyone else think?

[Boiler98]

I mean, the game was much better than kotor 1 and all the things and the storyline was better, its just that they didnt go where they could have with the story....and that was a big mistake by their devs.

 

Perhaps you could please share the plot with me? As I expressed, it seemed to changes several times throughout the game. I never saw a single cohesive plot that explained what I was doing.

[athenian]

Agree completely with Boiler.

 

Nuff said.

[Tainted Mustard]

The story obviously needed refinement. I think whoever makes the next game (hopefully Obsidian) can take some liberties with the storyline of KotOR 2. It just doesn't wrap up that well. It definitely needed more development time.

 

Also, as I said before, I think the 'closure' given by Kreia can be completely ignored in a sequel. I know I wouldn't mind.

[Darth Nemisis]

I agree. I didn't know what I was fighting for.....sith or Jedi...it didn't matter. As a dark side male, I was left on a rock floating in space, with no way to get off planet, no way to take over the Sith Empire, no way to....LIVE for crying out loud! And I have no idea what Traya was talking about at the end! She has accomplished what, with having me kill Nihlus and Sion (and her)??? Now the galaxy has nothing.....no Jedi (I killed them all), and no sith because I killed them too. So what now???????

[Tainted Mustard]

I agree. I didn't know what I was fighting for.....sith or Jedi...it didn't matter. As a dark side male, I was left on a rock floating in space, with no way to get off planet, no way to take over the Sith Empire, no way to....LIVE for crying out loud! And I have no idea what Traya was talking about at the end! She has accomplished what, with having me kill Nihlus and Sion (and her)??? Now the galaxy has nothing.....no Jedi (I killed them all), and no sith because I killed them too. So what now???????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There will always be Sith and there will always be those who can feel the Force. As a follower of the Sith teachings, you remain on Malachor V to await the Sith that will be drawn to you by your echo.

[Darth Nemisis]

But I killed....everyone basically. Why couldn't it have at least ended with me and Visas standing before the entrance of the Trayus Academy....or something. I mean she loves me, and I love her, and she said she would always be by my side, adn that she would never leave me........but she is no where to be found???

[Tainted Mustard]

But I killed....everyone basically. Why couldn't it have at least ended with me and Visas standing before the entrance of the Trayus Academy....or something. I mean she loves me, and I love her, and she said she would always be by my side, adn that she would never leave me........but she is no where to be found???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Happens in the LS ending as well. Considering the exile's ability to form spiritual bonds with others, I can see at least some of the characters returning in a sequel. We'll have to wait 'til then, though.

 

But yes, the ending was very unfulfilling.

[Boiler98]

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one having trouble with the fragmented story and lack of closure. I didn't buy "Knight's of the Old Republic: Part 2 of 3".

 

But all that aside, I am really looking for some help in understanding what I've been doing for the past 5 days. I honestly do not truely understand what I was fighting to accomplish.

 

I thought it was to unite the Jedi Masters in order to fight Nihilis. But then they turn on me, judge me again, and Kreia kills them. Okay... plot twist, I'm cool with that.

 

Overlooking Nihilis's worthlessness in the story, I then thought it was that Kreia was minipulating everyone (Sith and myself) in order to create "a wound" or possible destroy the Force all together. This realization, if it was one at all, happened on my way back to Telos. I'm hoping for some major dialog to explain some things.

 

All I get is a battle with Atris, and more question. A battle with Nihilis's and no answers. A battle with Sion and just utter confusion. To be finalized by killing Kreia who's agenda I am utterly clueless about now, as she goes on about Raven's master plan.

 

I'd really like to understand this.

[athenian]

Kreia did have a dialogue option as to why she did this. She hated the force, because she felt like her destiny was not her own (I am both infering and paraphraseing).

 

She wanted to destroy the force, so she could in some way be free...I guess

 

What I don't get is why or how anyone could "destroy" the force. Its supposed to exist because of life, right? So how could you hope to destroy all life?

 

If thats true, then how could Kreia (and the Jedi Masters) delude themselves into thinking that the Force could ever be put/in any real danger...

[Tainted Mustard]

The Masters explain that in the exile, they can *see* the end of all life as he seems to feed on the lifeforce of others to empower himself. To them, the exile is a festering wound in the Force that has the potential to destroy it. Kreia sees this in him, and, twisted as it may be, she loves him for it. Her goal in the end of the game isn't to kill him, but to break him to become her apprentice.

[Boiler98]

Right, I got that part. Nihilis is some other form of this, consuming the force (seeing "planets and stars, not people" as explained by the Onderonian guy), as I am led to believe. I can then *infer*, because it is never explained, that I am able to defeat him because of my weird force wound.

 

But why does Kreia love me for this wound? I thought it was because I was some key to unraveling the force and that my bound was her a way for her to accomplish this at all costs (from my dialog with Atris). In the end, however, this didn't seem to be true.

 

Who/what is Atris and what was her roll in all of this?

 

Why was Kreia doing what she was doing... and what was she trying to do?

[Tainted Mustard]

She was trying to destroy the Force. Even if that meant destroying every living thing in the universe (including herself), she would have been free. It would have been her choice - a destiny she made for herself.

 

And she loves you for what she and the Masters see as the potential to end life, and without life, there is no Force.

[ampulator00]

Maybe you should be mad at Obsidian Entertainment.... maybe you should cosidere this could be the publisher's doing, Lucasarts.

[Tainted Mustard]

As for Atris... I think she was misguided. In seeking to learn the ways of the Sith in order to combat it, she became consumed by it. Typical. But even if you walk the path of the Light, she still believes you beyond redemption. That is the Dark Side and she never realized it.

 

In the end (if you spare her) she will seek to distance herself from the Jedi in order to find her true self. A bittersweet, but fitting, ending.

[SoulSwindler]

I agree...I was like..'Yeah! I won!" and then I was like..."Uh...what the hell just went down?"...Darth Nihilis: "I can destroy entire worlds...but please..don't hit me three times with a lightsaber." When I first saw him I was like 'Damn..that's one bad mutha...and then he fell without even a struggle. I dunno...I had fun and will play it again..I just felt things were a bit less than flowing.

[Tainted Mustard]

Maybe you should be mad at Obsidian Entertainment.... maybe you should cosidere this could be the publisher's doing, Lucasarts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't worry - all of my wrath is squarely directed at LucasArts. Obsidian wasn't given enough time to develop the game.

[Boiler98]

She was trying to destroy the Force. Even if that meant destroying every living thing in the universe (including herself), she would have been free. It would have been her choice - a destiny she made for herself.

That's what I thought. But this realization comes so late in the story, I just don't understand where it came from and what I was doing to effect it.

 

Maybe I didn't miss something. Maybe it is just never really explained to the amount I expected.

 

Having played the first game 9 times, I feel I have to play this again... it is a moral imperative. Unlike the first game though, I'm going to have to pay really close attention to the story the second (maybe third) time though. I knew what I was doing and why I was doing it in the first one; I'm going to have to watching for all that again my next time though.

[SoulSwindler]

She was trying to destroy the Force. Even if that meant destroying every living thing in the universe (including herself), she would have been free. It would have been her choice - a destiny she made for herself.

That's what I thought. But this realization comes so late in the story, I just don't understand where it came from and what I was doing to effect it.

 

Maybe I didn't miss something. Maybe it is just never really explained to the amount I expected.

 

Having played the first game 9 times, I feel I have to play this again... it is a moral imperative. Unlike the first game though, I'm going to have to pay really close attention to the story the second (maybe third) time though. I knew what I was doing and why I was doing it in the first one; I'm going to have to watching for all that again my next time though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The unfortunate part is that instead of the sixth sense feel (like watching it again and picking up on all the cool stuff you should have put together...like KOTOR) It seems this game is more of a "this twist happened out of the blue but just except it" type development.

[Tainted Mustard]

Well, I personally wasn't too surprised when Kreia revealed her plan. No, I didn't know what she was planning - I don't think anyone could - but her admiration of the exile's detachment from the Force was something I picked up on.

 

In some ways, I sympathize with her, but what she proposed was something that just could not be allowed to happen. Despite our philosophies and our desires, they are never anything that can be forced on others. That's me, anyway.

[ampulator00]

Maybe you should be mad at Obsidian Entertainment.... maybe you should cosidere this could be the publisher's doing, Lucasarts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't worry - all of my wrath is squarely directed at LucasArts. Obsidian wasn't given enough time to develop the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Time maybe not issue... it maybe that this how Lucasarts wanted it. Just a thought.

[Boiler98]

Another plot point which came to mind which I realized I am totally clueless about. The Sith Assassins and, more specifically, the ritual the Sith were performing on Dxun.

 

What was the point of the ritual on Dxun? Was this Sion or Nihilis trying to do something which is just never explained. Was this part of Kreia's master plan? How did it help in either situation? Did the writers just decide -- "Hey, we need a 'ritual' of some sort, somewhere"?

 

I sent Visas, Bao-Dur and Disciple to take care of it. Visas and Bao-Dur had a new dialog option afterwards to discuss what had happened... but the conversations goes nowhere. They just say if effected them and they don't want to take about it, or that it isn't worth discussing. So the trip just seems to end up being another meaningless adventure.

 

Did I miss something else that explained this?