George W. Bush Justifies Off-The-Cuff Bigotry

[Rhomal]

It seemed to me your of the stance if a religion is not considered a 'major' one it ok's to demean or/and not consider it a valid religion.

where did i say that? i simply noted that wicca is not widely-recognised as a religion. arguing that people shouldn't demean other religions is fine, but - as a moral standpoint - people at least have to agree that such-and-such is a religion before that rule can take effect.

 

whether bush's ignorance is excusable, is another matter. bush is ignorant of a lot of things so the fact that, as commander-in-chief, he doesn't seem to be aware of US military guidelines on paganism doesn't exactly surprise me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fair enough. If I read too much into your previous statement my apologizes.

[newc0253]

Doesn't this argument depend on what you mean by "widely-recognized"? It's not like that phrase has any objective meaning.

sure it does. it's a purely empirical claim about how many people in a given country recognise wicca as a religion. if you mean there's no objectively-given threshold of what proportion counts as 'widely' (40%? 60?), then you're right. but it's false to claim that you can't count the number of people who recognise wicca as a religion, nor make verifiable claims about its low level of recognition relative to, say, christianity or judaism.

[AlanC9]

Yeah, you're right -- I don't think there's any reasonable definition of "widely" that would be true when talking about US citizens recognizing Wicca as a religion.

 

I'd be shocked if even 20% of the population gave anything but a blank stare when asked the question.

[taks]

bush is ignorant of a lot of things so the fact that, as commander-in-chief, he doesn't seem to be aware of US military guidelines on paganism doesn't exactly surprise me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

first of all, bush made these comments BEFORE becoming commander in chief, so this statement is unfounded. secondly, he referred to witchcraft instead of wicca... of course, given his background, it's pretty safe to assume he doesn't know the difference between wicca and witchcraft. thirdly, paganism was not mentioned that i could see...

 

taks

[taks]

oh, btw, the first article mentions the supposed definition of promote used by bush... they are a bit off, actually. promote is a little stronger than just permit. permit is along the lines of "to tolerate" while promote, as used by bush, is more along the lines of "to favor." they're trying to put words into his mouth that aren't his...

 

taks

[newc0253]

of course, given his background, it's pretty safe to assume he doesn't know the difference between wicca and witchcraft.

huh, he was in skull & bones. you'd think that might prompt an interest in the occult...

 

but seriously, given the advantages of 'his background' (an ivy league education, his dad in the white house) bush's ignorance of most things is pretty hard to justify. until he became president, the only foreign country he'd visited was mexico for fcuk's sake...

[Commissar]

of course, given his background, it's pretty safe to assume he doesn't know the difference between wicca and witchcraft.

huh, he was in skull & bones. you'd think that might prompt an interest in the occult...

 

but seriously, given the advantages of 'his background' (an ivy league education, his dad in the white house) bush's ignorance of most things is pretty hard to justify. until he became president, the only foreign country he'd visited was mexico for fcuk's sake...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just because he went to an Ivy League school does not mean he received an Ivy League education. A horse that can paw the ground enough times to tell you its age is a far brighter spark than our Nero.

[Rhomal]

oh, btw, the first article mentions the supposed definition of promote used by bush... they are a bit off, actually.  promote is a little stronger than just permit.  permit is along the lines of "to tolerate" while promote, as used by bush, is more along the lines of "to favor."  they're trying to put words into his mouth that aren't his...

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Leave it to a the 'official obsidian forum bush spin doctor' to find bias in one of the most neutral and respected religion database sites on the net.

 

Sometimes it is what it it no matter how badly you dont want it to be.

[taks]

so exactly how well did you do on the SAT's commissar... i mean, since you seem so self righteous in your criticism of others' intelligence? bush's scores place him at an IQ of 120... and like it or not, C's/B's out of yale is better than A's out of most other schools.

 

irrelevant newc023... the argument was about bush's comments regarding wicca as a religion. at the time, he was not commander in chief. to expect him to understand that a single chapter existed within the chaplain's book is unreasonable.

 

also, btw, skull and bones, like any other fraternal organization, tend to make up their own "occult" rituals. usually there isn't any basis in real ritual.

 

taks

[taks]

Leave it to a the 'official obsidian forum bush spin doctor' to find bias in one of the most neutral and respected religion database sites on the net.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah, spin = "using facts" in your book...

 

so tell me, how exactly did i spin what they said? your "neutral" website did some "off the cuff" interpretation of what bush said. sorry, bud, but THAT is spin... not what i said.

 

btw, just because you think something is neutral and respected does not mean it is...

 

taks

[Commissar]

so exactly how well did you do on the SAT's commissar... i mean, since you seem so self righteous in your criticism of others' intelligence?  bush's scores place him at an IQ of 120... and like it or not, C's/B's out of yale is better than A's out of most other schools.

 

irrelevant newc023... the argument was about bush's comments regarding wicca as a religion.  at the time, he was not commander in chief.  to expect him to understand that a single chapter existed within the chaplain's book is unreasonable.

 

also, btw, skull and bones, like any other fraternal organization, tend to make up their own "occult" rituals.  usually there isn't any basis in real ritual.

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You really want to know how well I did?

 

1390 total. 770 Verbal, and 520 Math. I suck ass at math. Then again, I did get a perfect 800 on both my Writing and Literature SAT IIs. My IQ is somewhere over 125, which I do not say braggingly, but just that it would have to be to qualify for the gifted programs I've been in since grade school, which all require a 125+ IQ.

 

My alma mater, the second oldest college in the nation, was recently ranked by Princeton Review as the most academically challenging university in the US.

 

So, if you'll forgive me, Bush's education credentials don't really impress me. The guy's an idiot.

 

Want me to go into my LSAT scores, or are you satisfied?

[taks]

btw, rhomal, try to make your next point without lobbing an insult, ok? it might make you more believable.

 

taks

[newc0253]

bush's scores place him at an IQ of 120... and like it or not, C's/B's out of yale is better than A's out of most other schools.

LOL, not really. a C student at an ivy league school would be a C student most everywhere else as well. nor would Bush have gotten into yale save for his family connections. had Bush not been from a wealthy dynasty, he would have been a C student at the midtown Houston community college instead.

 

also, btw, skull and bones, like any other fraternal organization, tend to make up their own "occult" rituals.  usually there isn't any basis in real ritual.

recognise humour much? it's the bit that comes before the 'seriously'...

[taks]

You really want to know how well I did? 

 

1390 total.  770 Verbal, and 520 Math.

actually, that adds up to 1290, not 1390... bush got a 1206, not much worse than you, and when he took it, it applied directly as a measure of IQ (about mid 120's, actually). i didn't do nearly as well overall (much better in math, however) though i did take them when i was a first semester junior..

 

  I suck ass at math.

apparently.

 

Then again, I did get a perfect 800 on both my Writing and Literature SAT IIs.  My IQ is somewhere over 125, which I do not say braggingly, but just that it would have to be to qualify for the gifted programs I've been in since grade school, which all require a 125+ IQ.

congrats...

 

My alma mater, the second oldest college in the nation, was recently ranked by Princeton Review as the most academically challenging university in the US.

 

So, if you'll forgive me, Bush's education credentials don't really impress me.  The guy's an idiot.

not too bad... but not nearly enough to be criticizing bush as an idiot. if you do so, you should probably start barking about kerry, too, just to be fair and all...

 

either way, bush does have multiple degrees, and contrary to your beliefs, he's not stupid. of course, you regularly feel the need to directly attack those you disagree with, particularly by criticizing their intelligence... for whatever reason i suppose it makes you feel good about yourself to be "smarter" than the general teenage population in here. you go boy!

 

Want me to go into my LSAT scores, or are you satisfied?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

nope, the question was rhetorical anyway...

 

taks

[taks]

LOL, not really. a C student at an ivy league school would be a C student most everywhere else as well. nor would Bush have gotten into yale save for his family connections. had Bush not been from a wealthy dynasty, he would have been a C student at the midtown Houston community college instead.

uh, no. you can think that if you want, but there is a difference among schools. oh, and like it or not, he did qualify for entrance based on test scores.

 

recognise humour much? it's the bit that comes before the 'seriously'...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

just pointing out a fact. oh, and yes, i can back that fact up with real life experience in a fraternity... our rituals were ridiculous, as were those of other fraternities.

 

taks

[Commissar]

You really want to know how well I did? 

 

1390 total.  770 Verbal, and 520 Math.

actually, that adds up to 1290, not 1390... bush got a 1206, not much worse than you, and when he took it, it applied directly as a measure of IQ (about mid 120's, actually). i didn't do nearly as well overall (much better in math, however) though i did take them when i was a first semester junior..

 

  I suck ass at math.

apparently.

 

Then again, I did get a perfect 800 on both my Writing and Literature SAT IIs.  My IQ is somewhere over 125, which I do not say braggingly, but just that it would have to be to qualify for the gifted programs I've been in since grade school, which all require a 125+ IQ.

congrats...

 

My alma mater, the second oldest college in the nation, was recently ranked by Princeton Review as the most academically challenging university in the US.

 

So, if you'll forgive me, Bush's education credentials don't really impress me.  The guy's an idiot.

not too bad... but not nearly enough to be criticizing bush as an idiot. if you do so, you should probably start barking about kerry, too, just to be fair and all...

 

either way, bush does have multiple degrees, and contrary to your beliefs, he's not stupid. of course, you regularly feel the need to directly attack those you disagree with, particularly by criticizing their intelligence... for whatever reason i suppose it makes you feel good about yourself to be "smarter" than the general teenage population in here. you go boy!

 

Want me to go into my LSAT scores, or are you satisfied?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

nope, the question was rhetorical anyway...

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

****ing typos...

 

620. I'm bad at math, but I'm not that bad.

 

But no, I generally don't critique someone's intelligence. Not on here, anyway. I don't specifically attack anyone's intelligence, but I do make generalizations about people who I find to be stupid (see: my rants on religion).

 

I said Bush is an idiot. He is an idiot. I've got multiple degrees, too, and therefore I know just how easy it is to acquire them.

 

And keep in mind, I only brought this up because you asked me about it. Find a reference to my own personal accomplishments anywhere else and I'll concede.

 

Edit: Math, not match. Good Christ. Apparently this is what happens when you do nothing but type for six straight hours.

[Judge Hades]

As a student of religious studies I have to say this thread is hilarious.

[Rhomal]

btw, rhomal, try to make your next point without lobbing an insult, ok?  it might make you more believable.

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Insult? Where? Just fact as I see it. Or do you dispute you say anything you can to defend the guy any time someone has a critism of him?

 

Hence yes, you are his offical forum PR man, End of discussion.

[newc0253]

uh, no.  you can think that if you want, but there is a difference among schools.

sure there is. but not among C students...

 

oh, and like it or not, he did qualify for entrance based on test scores.

to yale? no, not really.

[Commissar]

uh, no.  you can think that if you want, but there is a difference among schools.

sure there is. but not among C students...

 

oh, and like it or not, he did qualify for entrance based on test scores.

to yale? no, not really.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, come on. Sure he did. Just like he "qualified" for the Texas Air National Guard. And the Guard needed someone of his caliber so much that he was jumped waaaaaay to the front of the line. All this talk of paternal influence is unpatriotic, and if you keep it up, the terrorists will win.

[Judge Hades]

Actually he did, newc0. Its the "You Have To Be This Rich To Enter Anyway" test.

[taks]

i wasn't knocking the fact that you posted the data... just mentioned that the question was actually rhetorical... tonal intent cannot be conveyed via message board posts.

 

sorry, you have zero proof that bush is an idiot other than ideological bias. you can believe what you want, even dislike his policies, but that doesn't make him an idiot.

 

btw... you said "but I do make generalizations about people who I find to be stupid "

 

ad-hominem attacks... of course, most of such threads have since been yanked. not surprising as phosphor doesn't screw around with moderating

 

taks

[taks]

to yale? no, not really.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, really. his SAT scores alone qualified him... he was in the lower half, however. that is true.

 

and commissar, i never said he didn't get any help from his parents getting into yale, i just said he qualified without it. it is not uncommon. even mr. clinton had a shady "get out of vietnam free" past...

 

taks

[Judge Hades]

I find those SAT scores highly suspicious. I wonder who Daddy Bush had to pay to take that test for George W. or who he had to bribe to tack on another 300 points to each score.

[Rhomal]

> so tell me, how exactly did i spin what they said? your "neutral" website did some "off the cuff" interpretation of what bush said. sorry, bud, but THAT is spin... not what i said.

 

The editor clearly marked his own view of the matter at hand. He did not present his comments as fact just informed opinion. I see no issue with that.

 

> btw, just because you think something is neutral and respected does not mean it is...

 

If just I had that opinion it then may be true. But the fact remains religious tolorance site remains one of the most respected sites with it comes to detailing all the various religions even handly. Just because you do not wish to accept that does not make it so.