Anyone need a wedding ring?

[Volourn]

"I think that it would probably be the best intrest of everyone that all those who wish to follow Bush, and those who want a better government leave each other and form 2 separate nations.

 

Hardcore Christians and the Religious Right can have their country and reasonable people can have theirs."

 

You don't believe in democracy. Democracy is about accepting that you don't always get what you want. You also are an elitist type person (like me) who thinks anyone who disagrees with him is beneath them.

 

The Ring Story was hilarious yet sad at the same time.

 

The Mirror is pathetic, and also don't believe in democracy.

 

Lots of intelligent people voted for Bush. lots of dumb people voted for Bush.

 

The same is true for Kerry.

 

 

Next.

[Vincent_Valashar]

The United States is not a pure democracy, its a democratic republic, but lets not go into semantics here. As for the statement that I don't believe in democracy, you are right, I don't. I do not accept warmongering leadership that uses religion and not reason to justify their actions. I do not accept the ineffective and inefficient governing bodies of the House and the Senate. I do not accept the inane actions of the Morale Majority. If they want to worship god, do it at their own homes and churches, and leave the state out of it. I will not accept our leadership, nor will I support it.

[Volourn]

"I will not accept our leadership, nor will I support it."

 

Then you have 2 chocies.

 

a) Do something within the system to change their point of view.

 

or

 

b) Move toa country that sees things the way you do.

[Vincent_Valashar]

Change will never happen and moving is not an option, so I will just vent uselessly.

[sickboycp]

Look at the bright side Vincent....

 

Like as not the country will be in such a mess four years from now that the Dems could run Koko the gorilla and still have a good chance at beating Bill Frist, D!ck Santorum or whatever horrid little neocon who ends up trying to ride Bush's coattails.

[Volourn]

"Change will never happen and moving is not an option, so I will just vent uselessly."

 

Ok. But, I disagree with the no change aprt. Things will change; they always do. Afterall, it was not that long ago when the Demos were the #1 party. And, I disticntly remember a time where slavery was legal but it isn't now. WOWSERS!

[Vincent_Valashar]

Slavery was only abolished by things getting really bloody. Millions of Americans died in that conflict and Slavery wasn't the main cause of it, it was the issue of State Rights. I don't see the US governemnt and the people allow themselves to get that bloody again. They rather be in front of the television and be entertained than change anything. One person cannot make a difference so why bother.

[Volourn]

"Slavery was only abolished by things getting really bloody. Millions of Americans died in that conflict and Slavery wasn't the main cause of it, it was the issue of State Rights. I don't see the US governemnt and the people allow themselves to get that bloody again. They rather be in front of the television and be entertained than change anything. One person cannot make a difference so why bother."

 

The way you talk about Bush suggests that one person CAN make a difference. Next.

[Vincent_Valashar]

Bush is just a cog in the machine. There is also Rumsfield, Cheney, Powell, and so forth and so on.

[AlanC9]

But he's the important cog. It's not like **** Cheney could have won the election without him.

[~Di]

While I'm neutral in the whole political thing, I think the people responsible for the Daily Mirror need to be shot.

 

If anything, crap like that makes me wonder if the man should be supported. Of course I sometimes have a contrary nature... so I dunno.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ahh, I should probably clarify that what gave me a laugh was the clever and hysterically funny essay the woman on EBay wrote... not the Daily Mirror headline, which I found incredibly insulting even to a total Bush-hater like myself.

 

If the world wants Americans to come together as a group, all they need to do is continue to their moronic global insult fest. I'm frankly pretty sick of the arrogance being shown by this kind of garbage, and I doubt I'm the only American who feels that way.

[taks]

If they want to worship god, do it at their own homes and churches, and leave the state out of it.  I will not accept our leadership, nor will I support it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

then move please, because we don't need people with such narrowminded focus "helping" our society. you obviously have very little understanding of the constitution and your posts regularly confirm that. go over to europe's amazing society, twice the people and 1/3 the productivity. fail with them while i laugh at your obvious ignorance. at least over there, you won't have to worry about religion intruding into your life...

 

taks

[AlanC9]

Just move to New York or California; you don't need to go as far as Europe. The churches around these parts are innocuous enough that you can ignore them.

[Weiser_Cain]

If they want to worship god, do it at their own homes and churches, and leave the state out of it.  I will not accept our leadership, nor will I support it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

then move please, because we don't need people with such narrowminded focus "helping" our society. you obviously have very little understanding of the constitution and your posts regularly confirm that. go over to europe's amazing society, twice the people and 1/3 the productivity. fail with them while i laugh at your obvious ignorance. at least over there, you won't have to worry about religion intruding into your life...

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe you should leave. It's our country too.

[Volourn]

"Maybe you should leave. It's our country too."

 

Why should he? He isn't the one whining about the "idiots" who voted for Bush nor does he want the US to bow to the world.

 

The world can go to hell for all I care. The world has committed more sins than the US can ever hope to.

[Weiser_Cain]

I don't care about the world, we are no better or worse than it.

As an American I have the right to call anyone an idiot and will continue to for the rest of my life. Crazy republican nutcases want to force me to be a good christian and use the word 'liberal' like some people would nazi and you're upset over a little name calling from the other side.... Wait a minute what say does a cananadian have in any of this?

[Volourn]

"Wait a minute what say does a cananadian have in any of this?"

 

The right to say my opinion! Contrary to what you anti Bush freaks think, freedom of speech still reigns (mostly!) in our two great countries!! That's exact;ly why youa re ALLOWED to call people stupid and call Bush Evil. Don't pretend you are any different from the Republicans when while they are calling you evil for "killing babies" and "being gay" (btw, I *do* support gay rights and the right to choose); youa re calling them evil for being "Christians". R00fles!

[Commissar]

If they want to worship god, do it at their own homes and churches, and leave the state out of it.  I will not accept our leadership, nor will I support it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

then move please, because we don't need people with such narrowminded focus "helping" our society. you obviously have very little understanding of the constitution and your posts regularly confirm that. go over to europe's amazing society, twice the people and 1/3 the productivity. fail with them while i laugh at your obvious ignorance. at least over there, you won't have to worry about religion intruding into your life...

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Taks, we've already been over the whole European productivity thing. You lost that one. Their countries are not failing. The average European is just as well off as the average American, perhaps moreso, since he or she is not likely to be blown up by a pissed off Iraqi.

 

There's narrow-mindedness on both sides; hell, guys like Sean Hannity are writing books with subtitles like "Defeating Terrorism and Liberalism" as though they were both equally dangerous.

 

I think most of the people in this forum arguing against religion entering politics aren't scared of religion so much as we're scared that we'll find our own personal morality regulated. And you can certainly have morality without religion. I find it to be a more gratifying system myself, since I'm not basing my decisions on what someone said two thousand years ago, but that's up to you to decide. Society is better with less rules governing morality than more, because the bottom line is, in fifty years what social conservatives abhor now will be commonplace. It's just slowing down evolution.

 

The country was founded to provide freedom for all people; freedom for Christians to worship, think, and vote as they like, but also for non-Christians. Couple that with the fact that the Christian church (as a whole) has been on the wrong side of numerous scientific and social issues over the past two thousand years, and I say we ought to be more secular than not.

[AlanC9]

Society is better with less rules governing morality than more, because the bottom line is, in fifty years what social conservatives abhor now will be commonplace.  It's just slowing down evolution. 

 

Well, let's hope that not everything the social conservatives abhor will be commonplace. They're not wrong 100% of the time, after all.

['JN]

The country was founded to provide freedom for all people; freedom for Christians to worship, think, and vote as they like, but also for non-Christians.  Couple that with the fact that the Christian church (as a whole) has been on the wrong side of numerous scientific and social issues over the past two thousand years, and I say we ought to be more secular than not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Indeed. The notion of one bringing his own religion into politics is unamerican, because this is a land of religious freedom, and since there are practically more Gods being worshipped out there than there are stars in the sky, by using yours for guidance you are exhibiting a sort of bias that discriminates against all who do not worship "your" God.

 

This administration is the most theocratic that has been seen in a long time. I hate religion just as much as anyone else (probably even more), because it has the power to do exactly what it did in this election - lead people around by the collar and make them blindly follow a certain cause for all the wrong reasons.

 

That's not to say that I'm upset that Bush won. I'm glad Bush won. While I'm not going to be joining the guy's fan club any time soon, he is the lesser of two evils. Kerry is a phony and a liar, and he would do things just as bad if not worse than anything Bush will do. The difference is that he wouldn't do it because he believed in it, he'd be doing it because of the direction that the wind is blowing.

[Dakoth]

Hmm where to start?

 

 

The question remains, did it really needed to be done. Personally I do not care what happens in Iraq. Before the war it didn't effect me in the least and even if Saddam kept WMDs he is more apt to use them against his own people than have a chance to use them on US soil. The fact that Saddam did not have WMDs at the time of the invasion, and Bush Administration's claims of an Al Qeada link were proven false I have very little confidence in Bush's capabilties. Add to the fact he uses religious rheotirc to justify his actions instead of facts makes me doubly as skeptical to his leadership capabilities.

 

Do you truly care what happens then to anyone or is it all a fasade to make you look good? Once again no one said Saddam would use them on the US the worry was he would sell or give them to someone that would. Also about them not being there Saddam knew he was going down this time so I could see the old phrase the enemy of my enemy is my friend coming into play. Was his rhetoric any different than Clintons when he went into Bosnia and Somalia, the fact is the Iraqi people are better off with out Saddam.

 

Oh, he was trying to get WMDs. That makes a world of difference! Oh, yes it does! NOT! Instead of concentrating of countries trying to get WMDs Bush should have concentrated on countries that have been confirmed having them. Oh, that's right, there is no oil in North Korea.

 

Maybe if Clinton had the testicular fortitude Bush does North Korea wouldn't have nukes, or have you forgoten that happened on Clintons watch? Also would you risk pissing China off going in guns blazing into their neck of the woods to attack the very people China helped during the Korean war?

 

Look at the bright side Vincent....

 

Like as not the country will be in such a mess four years from now that the Dems could run Koko the gorilla and still have a good chance at beating Bill Frist, D!ck Santorum or whatever horrid little neocon who ends up trying to ride Bush's coattails.

 

How would they fair if a man like John McCain ran?

 

I don't care about the world, we are no better or worse than it.

As an American I have the right to call anyone an idiot and will continue to for the rest of my life. Crazy republican nutcases want to force me to be a good christian and use the word 'liberal' like some people would nazi and you're upset over a little name calling from the other side.... Wait a minute what say does a cananadian have in any of this?

 

Oh wiser how deluded you are, you of anyone should know the shambles a democrat run state can be put into. Where does Illinois rank in dept for states again? How long has it been since a balanced budget has been passed? Why not enlighten the rest of these people to the cost of rent, property tax, and sales taxes in our great state. What is the cost of a single family home in the city of Chicago again? Yes wiser all that comes from those social programs the dems love so much. So take it from a crazy republican nutcase if you support those things you are the only idiot on this board.

 

Taks, we've already been over the whole European productivity thing. You lost that one. Their countries are not failing. The average European is just as well off as the average American, perhaps moreso, since he or she is not likely to be blown up by a pissed off Iraqi.

 

Wait a second I thought there were Europeans killed during 9/11, you see we look very similar to Europeans so I doubt a terrorist will check before detonating a bomb near a target.

 

I find it to be a more gratifying system myself, since I'm not basing my decisions on what someone said two thousand years ago, but that's up to you to decide.

 

So does that view also apply to the constitution since it was written over 200 years ago and things have changed so much?

 

 

Lastly

 

I think that it would probably be the best intrest of everyone that all those who wish to follow Bush, and those who want a better government leave each other and form 2 separate nations.

 

Hardcore Christians and the Religious Right can have their country and reasonable people can have theirs.

 

Sure it would work. It would be better than the bullcrap we have now. We can use parts of the Missouri River as the dividing line.

 

I was going to accept this thread for what it was and not respond but after reading stupid **** like this I felt I needed to respond. First off I am sure you understand, it is no longer a division between North and South it is a division between urban and rural, Penn should have proven that. You people from the Big city think differently than we small towners do so maybe that should be taken into consideration before something as ignorant as the above posts are written.

[Vincent_Valashar]

I think that it would probably be the best intrest of everyone that all those who wish to follow Bush, and those who want a better government leave each other and form 2 separate nations.

 

Hardcore Christians and the Religious Right can have their country and reasonable people can have theirs.

 

Sure it would work. It would be better than the bullcrap we have now. We can use parts of the Missouri River as the dividing line.

 

I was going to accept this thread for what it was and not respond but after reading stupid **** like this I felt I needed to respond. First off I am sure you understand, it is no longer a division between North and South it is a division between urban and rural, Penn should have proven that. You people from the Big city think differently than we small towners do so maybe that should be taken into consideration before something as ignorant as the above posts are written.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Um, when I made those comments I was in a rather light hearted mood and they weren't supposed to be taken seriously. Man, read in between the lines. Sheesh.

[Dakoth]

Um, when I made those comments I was in a rather light hearted mood and they weren't supposed to be taken seriously. Man, read in between the lines. Sheesh. 

 

So why continue to argue with nartwark if they meant nothing to you?

[Vincent_Valashar]

Why not? I needed a break from Unreal and I was bored.

[Dakoth]

So you did the exact thing you accused Nartwark of doing. Hmm interesting.