US election poll

[Gorth]

I am sorry Volourn but sex in the work place while not a violation of a law is considered a fireable offence in most companies, why because when at work your supposed to be working not nailing evryone of the opposite sex you can.

 

Sounds like a dull place. Not even at the annual x-mas function ?

[xanas3712]

Only because the Republicans would have never allowed it. Afterall, Clinton did have fun blowing things up in iraq from afar and still got called for 'Wagging the Dog'.

 

Both sides are hypocrites in this matter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Perhaps. I did disagree with Republicans on calling it that, as well as being against Bosnia, etc. There were a lot of ridiculous statements made at that time that were out of line on "my side" and frankly I have to admit to deserving at least some of the backlash this tiime around. I think overall that it's worse now, because I don't remember too much "Clinton lied" statements going around concerning this particular issue but there were certainly things said that I didn't respect. It's worth noting, that as a Republican I wasn't very impressed with Clinton's performance or the way in which he carried out things. Somalia was not handled well, and I blame that on him and the UN primarily (I have a good friend who served in Somalia). Somalia is probably the biggest reason Bush came out against "nation building" before he was president. I actually disagreed with him on that then, so his "flip-flop" on that issue was for the better IMO. Those are no doubt difficult situations however, just like the ones were are in now. I think Iraq, though, is a much more educated and modern country than Somalia though, and I can see from Sistani and some of the other moderates that Democracy can be had. It just will be dicey for awhiile. But it wasn't any different elsewhere. There have always been issues with those kinds of transistions.

[Meshugger]

"Interesting enough, the White House is also the First Family's home while the Prez is in office. In that instance, what Clintion sexually was in his 'private' home therefore none of the Public or Congress' buisness since as 'immorally' sad as it is; it is not illegal."

 

Interesting theory but still you are walking a thin line.  While yes there are living quarters in the white house the work and living areas are clearly marked.  The Lincoln bedroom= living quarters, Oval office= work.  It doesn't matter what time of day or the day of the weak the Presidents job is like a police officers even when you are off duty you are still a officer of the law so don't do questionable things.

 

I will say this again if you work at home and your boss finds out you are having sex when you should be working what is he going to do.If a male and female firefighter are caught having sex at the fire house what do you think is going to happen there.  Yes they live there and there are personal and work areas there but what do you think will be done?

 

I am sorry Volourn but sex in the work place while not a violation of a law is considered a fireable offence in most companies, why because when at work your supposed to be working not nailing evryone of the opposite sex you can.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I hope that you're a minority, this has got to be the stiffest, holier-than-thou that i've read at this forum.

[Dakoth]

Please explain how that was holier than though Messhugger I never said it wasn't something I had done or never would have done. Volourn stated no one had the right to ask Clinton about what had happened and I stated that because he chose to do it in what is considered the work place it most definately became the business of the people Clinton answers to.

 

Also since you and Gorth are so "open" minded please give me examples of why sex at the work place would be acceptable and ok. I am not talking about coworkers dating, I am talking about them having sex while in the work place.

[Judge Hades]

Well, Prostitutes have sex in the workplace.

[~Di]

Dear God, not again. Every time there is any topic on any forum on earth that criticizes, even remotely, republican decision-making, some fool brings up Clinton and the entire topic turns into Clinton bashing.

 

Enough already. Clinton was a surprisingly decent president (whom I did not vote for, in case anyone is interested) who was hounded by political enemies for 8 freaking years. The republican behavior during the Clinton years is why I, a republican since the day I first registered right out of high school, am now an Independent. Cripes, Clinton has been out of office for four years and the GOP faithful are still leaping upon any opportunity to insult the guy.

 

Get.

Over.

It.

 

:D (obligatory smilie since I have been labeled the rudest, meannest person on the internet)

[Volourn]

"(obligatory smilie since I have been labeled the rudest, meannest person on the internet)"

 

Truth hurts, doesn't it?

 

Don't worry, I'm the stupidest, most retarded person on the net so I know the feeling.

 

Anyways, I agree with the Clinton stuff. He was awesome, and crybabies should stop whining about him.

[Astatine]

~looks at vote counts~

 

 

How the %!^&"$

[Aponez]

Finally what happened with the "film" about Kerry? Stolen Honor, will be retired or will be emited?

[xanas3712]

Truth hurts, doesn't it?

 

Don't worry, I'm the stupidest, most retarded  person on the net so I know the feeling.

 

Anyways, I agree with the Clinton stuff. He was awesome, and crybabies should stop whining about him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't care about that stuff, but even barring that his administration had many major failures that make it impossible for me to call him "awesome" When it comes down to it, the president doesn't control the economy, so the job growth had nothing to do with him, though he gets the praise for it. I also don't blame Hoover for the losses of jobs when the Depression started. These things have much more to do with congressional policy than anything the president does, and while he can stand in the way of good or bad policy that's about it. In the case of Clinton it's hard to say anything that he pushed for himself that wasn't forced on him that ended up resulting in the benefits everyone remembers. The balanced budget was congress, the economy was businesses/corporations doing well. And one must remember, when the economy started on a downtrend in early 2001 that the main reason for this was many companies that had inflated stock values from bad practices. I could just as easily blame Clinton for those problems since they happened on his watch, but that's ridiculous. He doesn't control Enron or Worldcom, just as the current administration does not.

 

A president's main job is foreign policy, and there were no moves forward during Clinton's administration (notably a "failure" of Bush as well, however I would say that neither can be blamed for this because it's no easy situation that can really be corrected by American intervention). Then there was the debacle in Somalia, where that whole option was screwed up. I agreed with Clinton on Bosnia, but he was entirely weak on terrorism. When given the opportunity to take out Bin Laden he decided not to, and his responses to many acts were clearly not enough to do anything. At the same time, while I agree with Bob Kerry (democrat on the 9/11 commission) that we probably should have went after Bin Laden in Afghanistan earlier, this is something that never would have happened under Clinton, but I will admit that if he tried that Republicans would have been stupid like Dems are with Iraq now.

 

Clinton was also probably the biggest panderer in the world, with the constant focus groups and polling to find out what his position for the day should be. Yeah yeah, every president changes his mind. I don't deny that. But I think he really had no solid base on which he made decisions beyond trying to please anyone. This made him popular, but it also made him somewhat impotent towards making changes. I think the best thing about Clinton, was that when the Republican congress was elected he did actually manage to work with them, much as Reagan was able to work with the Democrat congress when he was president. Overall though, I'd say Clinton was an average president.

[Gorth]

Also since you and Gorth are so "open" minded please give me examples of why sex at the work place would be acceptable and ok.  I am not talking about coworkers dating, I am talking about them having sex while in the work place.

 

It's a good way to keep the stress levels down and anyway, the HR department recommends more physical exercise during the day when working long hours at the office

[Meshugger]

Please explain how that was holier than though Messhugger I never said it wasn't something I had done or never would have done.  Volourn stated no one had the right to ask Clinton about what had happened and I stated that because he chose to do it in what is considered the work place it most definately became the business of the people Clinton answers to.

 

Also since you and Gorth are so "open" minded please give me examples of why sex at the work place would be acceptable and ok.  I am not talking about coworkers dating, I am talking about them having sex while in the work place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sex at work happens, while it wouldn't be something that i would encourage my employees, but i wouldn't start to point fingers either. What Clinton did in the Oval office should've been a private matter, not something to pervert the already sex-starved public.

[Dakoth]

I love it so a man and a woman have sex in a park and are caught by the police nothing should happen to them because it is a private matter and no one should be able to inquire about it? You can not do something in a public place and say it is private. You said it yourself that you wouldn't encourage it, what would you do if you walked in on 2 employees having sex on your desk is this something you would condone?

 

As for you Di I stated it was his lie under oath that made him a bad President. He is to uphold and enforce the laws of the country, not break and bend to suit his purpose. I will say it again if he lied to save a personal relationship what else has he lied about, Whitewater? How the Chinese made it out of the US with sensative nuclear documaents? Where does it end if he is willing to lie to save face? As usual most Dems are willing to over look those things because he is their golden boy. As far as republicans pushing it to far I tell you what why don't you lie while under oath and see what the system has in store for you I doubt the possibility of only losing your job is your greatest concern.

 

edit: Oh I feel it necessary to add even though it has already been brought up. Clinton did to invade not 1 but 2 countries in his 2 terms Bosnia and Somalia he just didn't occupy them like Bush has done in Iraq.

[Meshugger]

I love it so a man and a woman have sex in a park and are caught by the police nothing should happen to them because it is a private matter and no one should be able to inquire about it?  You can not do something in a public place and say it is private.  You said it yourself that you wouldn't encourage it, what would you do if you walked in on 2 employees having sex on your desk is this something you would condone?

 

As for you Di I stated it was his lie under oath that made him a bad President.  He is to uphold and enforce the laws of the country, not break and bend to suit his purpose.  I will say it again if he lied to save a personal relationship what else has he lied about, Whitewater?  How the Chinese made it out of the US with sensative nuclear documaents?  Where does it end if he is willing to lie to save face?  As usual most Dems are willing to over look those things because he is their golden boy.  As far as republicans pushing it to far I tell you what why don't you lie while under oath and see what the system has in store for you I doubt the possibility of only losing your job  is your greatest concern.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would put an egg-clock on his/her desk and tell him that the emount of time they have sex, they have to work in after regular work-hours. A subtle and nice way to give the right message. I would NOT have a public hearing in front of all the other employees, let alone broadcast it on the television.

 

Whitewater is another matter.

[Dakoth]

So you agree that sex in the work place isn't some thing that is necessarily acceptable then? While a closed Q & A by congress would have been a much better way to handle the situation it was his wife finding out that he felt the need to lie so what would that have changed? I think it is safe to say not much.

[Meshugger]

So you agree that sex in the work place isn't some thing that is necessarily acceptable then?  While a closed Q & A by congress would have been a much better way to handle the situation it was his wife finding out that he felt the need to lie so what would that have changed?  I think it is safe to say not much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As i said earlier, it's not in the public's interest to know if the president committs adultery. A couple's relationship-problems should be dealt by themselves.

[Dakoth]

Wrong if he is doing it in the work place with a coworker it at least becomes the interest of the people he is responsible to which is congress. Just as your employees would lose productivity so would he. Like I said most dems are willing to over look this just to say republicans are nit picking the greatest president of all time. Those employees I talked about you made sure to let them know that that type of conduct was something you thought was inappropraite and they would be punished for it. Yes having to stay after and work as long as it took them would be a punishment. Now what is the punishment if they were breaking the law? Whether the republicans went about it the right way or not is irrelevant he broke the law something that to me makes him as bad as Nixon.

[Volourn]

They misused the law. No laws were broken until he was asked a question the law had no right asking. Why weren't the fools responsible for the 'witch hunt' fined, and/or punished for misuing the law and wasting tax payer dollars? Hmm..

[Dakoth]

As I said before when he chose the oval office for his little encounter it became the realm of the public. If he could have kept it to his private quarters then I would agree with you.

 

I will ask you the same as I have the others if you have sex with a coworker at work you think your boss has no right to ask what you were doing and what the hell you were thinking, and doesn't have the right to take action against you for it?

 

Even Meshugger at least from what I gather doesn't totally agree with that.

 

Also if we fined the governmet for all the ignorant things they did (Demecrats threatening to philibuster certain justices appointments if Bush chose them is another that comes to mind) everyone in the government would be poor. Hmm maybe that isn't such a bad idea after all nice thinking Vol.

[Volourn]

"I will ask you the same as I have the others if you have sex with a coworker at work you think your boss has no right to ask what you were doing and what the hell you were thinking, and doesn't have the right to take action against you for it?

 

Even Meshugger at least from what I gather doesn't totally agree with that."

 

Being President is not a 9 to 5 job. Most people don't work at home; but if they do they can do what they want. During a Presidency, the WH is the President & Family's home. He is also the boss of the WH therefore if the boss clears it - the President that is - anything is game. For some reason, i think Clinton said, yes.

 

Once again, you and the sillies lose.

[Dakoth]

Wrong the President answers to congress so if he kills someone while in office the boss can be removed. Its called checks and balances the President does not have free reign.

 

Also being president is a 24 hour a day 7 day a week job, not just a 9 to 5 job, so even when he goes home or to a vacation spot he is still the president and expected to act accordingly and carry out the jobs of the president.

 

So sorry Vol but in that respect thank you for playing but you lose please try again.

[Volourn]

"Also being president is a 24 hour a day 7 day a week job, not just a 9 to 5 job, so even when he goes home or to a vacation spot he is still the president and expected to act accordingly and carry out the jobs of the president."

 

1. He lives in the WH. That is his home.

 

2. He broke no laws by having an affair that warrant him losing his job.

 

3. As far as I know, the President when sworn in, signs no contract or swears no oath not allowing him to have sex in the WH or having ana ffiar. Afterall, if it's the sex that's bad, you do realize that Presidnets have been having sex in the WH for 200+ years with both their wives and mistresses (seperately, I presume, lol). None of them have been touched.

 

4. The Congress only has power toa ct against the President in estreme cases of him abusing his power. Having an affair is not enough to go on a witch hunt, sorry.

 

5. Day to day, the President is the boss. Afterall, he makes the rules -within constituional reason - of what goes on and who is allowed on WH grounds - espicially in the Oval Office.

 

 

"So sorry Vol but in that respect thank you for playing but you lose please try again."

 

No, onc eagain, i proved beyond all reasonable doubt, that that whole mess should have never happened. The Republicans screwed up and broke the law more than once in their pursuit of evil vindictiveness.

 

Next.

[Dakoth]

Typical Liberal retoric make it about the sex because no one can argue it is personal.

 

1. Only a portion of the White house is his home as was brought up earlier.

 

2.The affair was not the issue. The lie under oath to cover it up was and he most assuardly broke that law.

 

3.Most people would understand that having sex in the Oval Office, his place of work is not appropriate. Just like has been disscussed in the previous posts in this thread. As for the rest of that stupid post I point you to the previous bullet.

 

4.So breaking the law is ok? Then why was Nixon removed from office?

 

5.Only to a point he can not really deny any other congressman admittance to the white house for any other reason than he is busy or they need an appointment. He really can not bar them entrance. Hell public tours go on all the time there.

 

No, onc eagain, i proved beyond all reasonable doubt, that that whole mess should have never happened. The Republicans screwed up and broke the law more than once in their pursuit of evil vindictiveness.

 

No what you proved is you are good a regurgitating democratic rhetoric and not much more.

 

P.S. What laws were broken in republican vindictiveness?

[xanas3712]

Inappropriate yes, illegal no. However, you are correct in that is what Republicans were bothered about (the lying under oath) however, the lie was to cover up something that should never have been investigated in the first place, so I find it to be a somewhat lacking point.

 

Sure, technically he was guilty of a crime, but over something that I can't believe was ever put forward in the first place.

 

And, I am hardly a pro-Clinton guy. On the contrary I would have voted for Dole had I been old enough and Bush 41 before that. I just don't think that everything that happened during that time was a good thing, and because of the pettiness it really hurts the Republican cause IMO. Many people may see some legitimacy to it because of their morality, but by and large while people may see Clinton as an adulterer, that's not going to change their view on him as president, and the purient interests served by the scandal were really overall counter productive. Much like the statements of "wagging the dog" and "Clinton's War" I think this is something that perhaps makes us deserve what we are getting now with Bush. I wish that were not true, but I am no politician, and I have no qualms saying that many went too far.

 

This is not to say I don't think Clinton's character was an important issue. There were many things about that and other women that make me think the guy was bad news. I just don't think that specific event warranted the inquiry. But a better man would have simply refused to answer rather than lying.

[Volourn]

"Typical Liberal retoric"

 

I wonder what my fellow Liberals would say when they find out I support Bush in the election. R00fles!

 

 

 

"Only a portion of the White house is his home as was brought up earlier."

 

Exuses, exuses as well as technicality. Bottom line is the WH is his home and office and as president he is the Lord of Both Manor and Work Place.

 

 

"The lie under oath to cover it up was and he most assuardly broke that law."

 

The question should have never been asked in the first place. Period. And, yes, it was thew affair that bothered the Republicans. Don't lie. In fact, they were just trying to find some lame way to bring Clinton down.

 

 

"Most people would understand that having sex in the Oval Office, his place of work is not appropriate."

 

Inappropraite, maybe. Illegal, NOT. I doubt there'd be such an outcry if it was found out he had sex with Hillary in the Oval Office. Next.

 

 

"So breaking the law is ok? Then why was Nixon removed from office?"

 

When, the law is abused in such a manner as it was, the law can be showned to be imperfect and overuled. Clinton should have *never* been put in a position to lie under oath about the affair. That is the Republicans' fault.

 

"Only to a point he can not really deny any other congressman admittance to the white house for any other reason than he is busy or they need an appointment. He really can not bar them entrance. Hell public tours go on all the time there."

 

But, not the Oval Office unless it goes through him. That's his office. If he's using it; he can say no. Deal with it.

 

 

"What laws were broken in republican vindictiveness?"

 

Abuse of power, scandalously and illegally slandering someone's reputation, reporting a crime when there was none, wastefully spending millions of taxpayers' money on a non issue, and if I did research I'm sure there's a heck of a lot more.

 

 

"what you proved is you are good a regurgitating democratic rhetoric and not much more."

 

Why would I worry what the Dems say? I'm not a Democrat. Or Republican. Or Liberal. I'm just not a hypocrite like others are.

 

I supported Saddam Hussei's removal under any President.

 

I wanted Gore to win over Bush.

 

I want Bush to win over Kerry.

 

Any more dumbness you wanna speil?

 

You lose. Have a nice day.