20 Levels

[Jast]

To me, when I hear someone say they want more levels, they remind me of those gamers who get stoked over punching in cheat codes that make characters "indestructable" or "unlimited firepower" and think that it's fun to run around like you're superman.

 

Not my type of gaming.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't think that, not at all. I didn't like when Kotor just stopped at level 20. I felt kind of ripped off. I don't want to be some super duper killer god jedi person, I just don't want the game to stop my character development for no good reason. If it's a rpg, I just want to be able to advance as much as I want, be it to level 20, or level 50. I don't think the game should tell me when to stop.

[Influence]

I agree GHost of anakin is missing the point the extra levels are not to allow the gamer to become more powerfull than the computer but to create a deeper and more intricate level of gameplay. A player who uses cheats is using them because he wants to just hack and slash his way to victory without actually having any serious fun and is easily amused by lights and sound. But when the games interface allows for the further advancement of the character it allows the player to have a greater sense of accomplishment as he slowly works his way up the levels.

 

-for instance i would rather watch a battel between Yoda and Dooku than two low class and weak jedi and sith. Making more levels will only serve to make the game HARDER not easier and if Anakin does not want the game to increase in intricacy and difficulty that is his choice but i think most people thought the first game was too easy.

 

-Once again more levels are Definatley needed simply to accomidate for the added force powers; other wise you would not be able to use most of them.

 

-HOWEVER, thanks to Ghsot of anakin i understand why complete un regulated leveling woudl be bad, It woudl mean if u played teh game enough u could obtain every skill and force power. Which woudl take the fun away

 

-But i still believe there shoudl be a ceratin amount of freedom to leveling up and there most certainly needs to be more than 30 levels.

[Astatine]

To me, when I hear someone say they want more levels, they remind me of those gamers who get stoked over punching in cheat codes that make characters "indestructable" or "unlimited firepower" and think that it's fun to run around like you're superman.

 

Not my type of gaming.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't think that, not at all. I didn't like when Kotor just stopped at level 20. I felt kind of ripped off. I don't want to be some super duper killer god jedi person, I just don't want the game to stop my character development for no good reason. If it's a rpg, I just want to be able to advance as much as I want, be it to level 20, or level 50. I don't think the game should tell me when to stop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

KOTOR1 was designed so that you reached 20th level right before the final battle, I suspect, just that it worked out that people did more sidequests than expected. The "20th level ceiling" makes sense in that Star Wars d20 only goes up to level 20. Unless there's an equivalent of the D&D Epic Level Handbook for Star Wars d20 somewhere, they'd have had to concoct their own class stats for levels >20, which would be quite an undertaking to get right.

 

I wonder where Obsidian are getting theirs for KOTOR2? If they're making it themselves, I doubt they'd do so just so we could reach level 21 or perhaps 22 right at the end like we did in Bioware's game and so I think we can expect to spend some while with that sort of power...

 

Could be interesting.

[Influence]

mmmk.. is anyopne listening? FORGET ABout the previosu games with Vadar and Yoda, whether they were 18 or 118 should not matter too much. More levels are needed to accomidate th enew skills

 

Imagine having 20 levels such as in teh old game, there are thirty new force powers, with only 20 levels you woudl only be able to use about 5 out of 45... what is the point, can soem one tell me what is the POINT; having all those powers but only being able to use about 5 or 10!

 

I dont want a Jedi that has every skill mastered or that can kill his enemies with a force move and 1 use of master flurry, i jsut want options and diversity and the only way to brign that is with the addition of levels regardless of what previous games had.

 

WHo cares if palpatine was level 20, having Kotor does nto necisarrily have to be on the same scale. maybe a level 20 yoda in a previosu game is the equivalent to a level 60 jedi master in KOTOR 2.

 

All I am saying is do not get too upset when KOTOR 2 comes out with more levels then you are used too, and doesnt necissarily follow the exact leveling format as previous games, considerign many star wars games up to this point have not been particularly succesfull. More levels would benefit THIS PARTICULAR GAME.

[HalasterBlack]

To me, when I hear someone say they want more levels, they remind me of those gamers who get stoked over punching in cheat codes that make characters "indestructable" or "unlimited firepower" and think that it's fun to run around like you're superman.

 

Not my type of gaming.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yah I tend to agree with GA on this.

 

However I felt that some classes (Consular) in KOTOR did not recieve enough feats and powers by the end of the game.

 

This isn't really a fault of the amount of levels as much as a fault of the feat and power spacing given in those levels. (I rarely got more than one power upon level up with Consular class maybe once)

 

I feel that if leveling up is done properly than there should be no need for more levels.

[Influence]

Too bad teh game designers deemed it absolutely neccessarty for more levels... adn they are right with out them the added force powers feats and skill would be pointless

[Judge Hades]

Well, I think the idea of more levels are pretty bad. Yoda, a 900 year old Jedi, was only 20th level. Here comes TSL where you can get a 30th level character in the span of a few months game time. SOmething is seriously wrong here.

[Astatine]

Well, I think the idea of more levels are pretty bad.  Yoda, a 900 year old Jedi, was only 20th level.  Here comes TSL where you can get a 30th level character in the span of  a few months game time.  SOmething is seriously wrong here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nah...

 

"Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong" :D

[MadSkills]

Well, I think the idea of more levels are pretty bad.  Yoda, a 900 year old Jedi, was only 20th level.  Here comes TSL where you can get a 30th level character in the span of  a few months game time.  SOmething is seriously wrong here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nah...

 

"Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong" :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What the poster is forgetting is that Diablo and MMOs are online, skill-based games that don't rely on story very much at all. Having no lvl cap is fine for a level-treadmill type games.

 

 

But KOTOR is a story-based game with character development. Besides giving you more powers, the lvls are designed to allow you to roleplay.

 

Story based games HAVE to control your lvl progression or there would be ridiculous things like ppl being lvl 30 when they get to the lvl 20 endboss, etc.

 

What you need to understand about game design is that designers don't add a feature to a game unless it clearly will enhance "fun." What would be so fun about going around killing low lvl goons to lvl your characters above anything else in the game? Is there something fun to you about running around killing the same enemies over and over in order to be twice the lvl of the boss?

 

Think about whether your suggestion would actually add fun before you ask it. I'm guessing that the 33.3% of ppl who asked for no lvl limitations probably couldn't even tell you why it will make the game more fun, they're just asking for random features b/c they can.

[Judge Hades]

The first KotOR was no challenge so I am expecting the second KotOR to be even more so of an unchallenging game. Especially with all the level ups to 30th. That is just stupid.

[MadSkills]

The first KotOR was no challenge so I am expecting the second KotOR to be even more so of an unchallenging game.  Especially with all the level ups to 30th.  That is just stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree HADES ONE.

 

The problem is compounded by the fact that in the D20 engine, your character becomes exponentially more powerful as your TO HIT and other statistics go up, until you can't be hit anymore, or always critical, etc.

 

This isn't final fantasy, where you just get more hitpoints and damage per lvl, but the monsters go up so it remains even. In D20 your abilities get drastically better in damage AND bonuses, like stun.

 

Remember, a lvl 20 D&D 3+ character is considered god-like.

[Judge Hades]

Yep. Yet all these lamers want godlike characters so the designers/developers give them godlike characters thusly make the game useless for being a challenge. Downright sickening if you ask me.

[Volourn]

Level limits are for 2 groups of devloeprs. One are those who wanted to focus on a more controlled power span and make it be qualityand the other being weak ass developers who suck at balancing and so shouldn't be making games.

 

KOTOR is the latter, and NWN was the former.

 

 

Also, this idea that having 30 levels will make the game easier is bollox. It's so full of crap. Then again, anyone who has played both HOTU and KOTOR know which one was ahrder and it was the one with higher levels. Go figure.

 

In conclusion, once again Hades, your logic sucks.

[Judge Hades]

How does my logic suck? Both games were easy.

[Volourn]

Yeah. Whatever. Stop lying. If one were to believe you; every game is easy.

 

I'm sure youc an complete all agmes with a blidnfold and a hand tied behind your back.

[Judge Hades]

I am not lying, I am sitting. I had a pretty easy time with my Scoundrel/Sentinel in KotOR and my Paladin/Cleric/Champion of Torm pretty much wiped out everything in HotU with relative ease. Even the demi-lich was out of the count after 4 solid hits from my paladin. Also Malak was no challenge as I absorbed the lifeforce of his captured Jedi before he did, then I was able to immobilize him and sneak attack with several good hits. He was down and dead.

 

As I said, easy pickings.

[Judge Hades]

I'm sure youc an complete all agmes with a blidnfold and a hand tied behind your back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not every game. Icewind Dale 1 and Icewind Dale 2 were not easy. Neither was BG1 in some areas like Durlag's Tower. I had a hell of a time in that place, even on my second time through. Ultima 4 and 5 was pretty difficult, especially in the final areas. Not every game is a cakewalk. Just the more recent games are.

[Volourn]

"Icewind Dale 2 were not easy."

 

Hahahaha. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt you are making up rumours, myths, and innuendo.

 

Espicially sicne you left out BG2 but kept IWD2.

 

 

Hahaha.

[Judge Hades]

BG2 was easy, that is why I left it out.

[Volourn]

Huh. So, you beta the demi lich first time? You beat the beholders, illithids, and to a lesser extent va,pires without event rying? LOLOLOLLIPOP You are lying.

[Judge Hades]

When you have a Paladin/Cleric/Champion of Torm with a fully pumped Holy Avenger in Dragon Plate, things tend to die pretty easily.

[Jast]

Yep.  Yet all these lamers want godlike characters so the designers/developers give them godlike characters thusly make the game useless for being a challenge.  Downright sickening if you ask me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ahh Hades, that is not the point. The point is, like I said, if I want to get to just level twenty, or get all the way to level fifty, I should be able to. The game shouldn't just stop me from leveling up for no good reason. I don't want to be a god-like character, I just want to have the choice. If the power gamers grind to the highest level it doesn't matter to me, because it doesn't affect my game. Getting stopped at a certain level does affect my game, in my opinion.

[Judge Hades]

Yep.  Yet all these lamers want godlike characters so the designers/developers give them godlike characters thusly make the game useless for being a challenge.  Downright sickening if you ask me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ahh Hades, that is not the point. The point is, like I said, if I want to get to just level twenty, or get all the way to level fifty, I should be able to. The game shouldn't just stop me from leveling up for no good reason. I don't want to be a god-like character, I just want to have the choice. If the power gamers grind to the highest level it doesn't matter to me, because it doesn't affect my game. Getting stopped at a certain level does affect my game, in my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There are only 20 levels in Star Wars d20, and the game is based on Star Wars d20, therefore the max level should be 20. If you don't want a game based on PnP then don't buy a game based on PnP. Go play Diablo and get you level 50 character.

[Darth Sirius]

There are only 20 levels in Star Wars d20, and the game is based on Star Wars d20, therefore the max level should be 20.  If you don't want a game based on PnP then don't buy a game based on PnP.  Go play Diablo and get you level 50 character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its above 20 on TSL's so that rules out the window, they could give you more power each level and leave it at 20 I suppose, but why make an easy game easier? So unless TSL's is infinitly harder than its predecessor, I don't see how much more levels than 20 are justified. I know there are tons of new force powers and feats, but do we really need all or even most of them on one play through? I certainly don't, it adds to the replay value if you don't get 'everything' the first time around.

[Judge Hades]

Or they could kept it at level 20, and still put all the options in the game. I would have gone that route. There are no epic levels in Star Wars so why put it ina game based on Star Wars.

 

My vote is to keep it at 20 and no unnecessary power up. Just because there are a load of feats and force powers in the game doesn't mean one character should have access to all of them. Frankly, withthis game being at most 30 hours 7th to 9th level should have been max.