TOTJ and KoTOR

[darth_habbo]

Just because Naga Sadow had a tomb on korriban doesnt mean his body wqas there, catch my drift? and by the way, continuity mistakes arent THAT big a deal.

[Nur Ab Sal]

If Lucasfilm claims that Star WArs Universe has its own logic and everything is well-tied such bugs are important - unless you are a non-fan.

 

Forgotten Realms fans would be enraged if some stupid programers show their beloved Elminster as mini-dragon or Orc. I'm star wars fan and using title "darth" before it even was born pisses me off.

[Darth Sirius]

I wonder why Lucasarts official site didn't mention in their KOTOR 2 site that Dxun lies in Japreal system (they say that its in Onderon system but that's wrong)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Jedi / Republic force faces not only Dark Side soldiers but strange war droids that radiate the Dark Side.  Nevertheless, when they unite with Ulic and his group, the army proves stronger.  The Ketos escape (guided by Nadd) just as the massed Jedi enter the subterranean headquarters, killing Ommin and freeing Arca.  However, Nadd reveals that he planned everything that has happened

[Darth Nuke]

"The Valley I believe was KOTOR's truely only and Biggest continuity mistake. Though something tha will be looked over if KOTOR gets a comic or book."

 

Don't forget that title "darth" didn't appeared before battle of Ruusan 1000 years before TPM. It became ceremonial title of the modern Sith to respect Darth Bane, only survivor of Ruusan and founder of the New Sith ("darth" was Bane's name)

So Malak and Revan are simply Malak and Revan no "darth" with them.

 

Naga Sadow died on Yavin so what's his tomb doing on Korriban?

 

And there's no Jedi Council in so ancient times. Every master was independent and led his own school. Decisions were made by massive convocations (like that on Deneba or Exis Station) and only important rank was SPEAKER who guarded order during such convocations - Odan Urr later Nomi Sunrider.

 

Jedi of that Era normally had wives husbands lovers and children. There were entire jedi bloodlines for example Ulic Qel Droma descended from long line of jedi knights after his mother. So Nomi Sunrider and her husband. So all that Bastila romance crap is most stupid thing after Leviathan's duel. Normally Bastila would be a virgin only if she existed during the Phantom Menace times.

 

Let's say honestly devs sucked many matters in KOTOR with their false vision of the Jedi. Jedi in KOTOR are taken from Phantom Menace and that's wrong cause they should be portrayed according to EU material. Any of the bioweenies never read Tales of the Jedi Companion, Power of the Jedi and Dark Side Sourcebook.

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The Bane was never said to be the first to use it, people just say he did becasue no one else used teh term before him. And it was LFL that said Bioware could use the term, and that it was around during this time. Also before Bane there was a Darth Riven, who was created before KOTOR.

 

Most of the Devs agree,by my influence again that Sadow's tomb is just a memorial. I don't even think he has a sarcophagus in his tomb.

[Delerius_Jedi]

Though I am not sure because I have not read any of the Tales of the Jedi comics, I am fairly confident the events and characters of the Dark Lords of the Sith comics and the Sith Lords game are not the same in the same fashion as the events and characters of the Knights of the Old Republic comics and the game weren't the same. So the timeline as far as the game goes has no true relevance to the timeline of the comics (In other words KotOR 2 can happen 5 years after KotOR 1 because the game isn't following the comics of the Dark Lords of the Sith, they're just named similarly).

 

Again I might be wrong, but there was no Malak and Revan I was aware of in the comics (The comics just served as an inspiration for the game with the backdrop of Exar Kun, Nomi Sunrider, etc) so Sion is probably not a character from the Dark Lords comics nor are the events in those comics the ones that will appear in the game.

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Oh no, I think you misunderstand. Remember in KOTOR when Jolee Bindo tells you how he lost his wife? That was during the first Sith War, where Exar Kun was the Dark Lord.

 

The first Sith War happened roughly forty years before KOTOR took place, so there would be no conflict with the content of KOTOR2, as KOTOR2 is 55 years after Tales of the Jedi.

 

I am particularly looking forward to seeing what Obsidian is doing to the city of Iziz on Onderon and the moon of Dxun, as they were both prominent locales in the TotJ series.

 

There are interesting bits in there that could be brought up, like say the tomb of the fallen Jedi Freedon Nadd, who ruled Onderon around 200 years before the KOTOR era, if I recall correctly, and was one of the first Dark Jedi to subjugate an entire population single-handidly, by using the dark side of the Force.

 

If any of you are interested, the Tales of the Jedi are still a great read, engrossing plot, good art and well-defined characters. Amazon still has them listed.

[Darth Nole]

Where would I find these 'tales of the Jedi' comics. I want to read them?

[Muad'Dib]

Oh no, I think you misunderstand. Remember in KOTOR when  Jolee Bindo tells you how  he lost his wife? That was during the first Sith War, where Exar Kun was the Dark Lord.

 

The first Sith War happened roughly forty years before KOTOR took place, so there would be no conflict with the content of KOTOR2, as KOTOR2 is 55 years after Tales of the Jedi.

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I think you misunderstood me. I know that the comics portray Exar Kun and the Sith War, Ulic Qel-Droma, Nomi Sunrider, etc. I didn't say there was a conflict of interest, I said that KotOR 1 wasn't based on the comics of the same name but used them as a historical background. One of the posters here appeared to believe that KotOR 2 would be related to the comics named Dark Lords of the Sith. I pointed out that there would probably be no direct relation in the same fashion KotOR 1 had no direct relation to the comics.

[Topaz Quasar]

Krath were a secret darkside society. They were founded by Satal and Aleema Keto, heirs to the throne of the Empress Teta System. The name" Krath" they took

from the demon that their caretakers were telling them tales about. They stolen

artifacts from the Galactic Museum and later Freedon Nadd empowered the cult.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If Onderon wasn't part of the Empress Teta system then how did Freedon Nadd influence the Ketos?

 

Naga Sadow died on Yavin so what's his tomb doing on Korriban?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, lots of ancient kings built their tomb while they're still alive.......

 

And there's no Jedi Council in so ancient times. Every master was independent and led his own school. Decisions were made by massive convocations (like that on Deneba or Exis Station) and only important rank was SPEAKER who guarded order during such convocations - Odan Urr later Nomi Sunrider.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

KOTOR is 40 years later; maybe they did some restructuring? (especially with their facility on Ossus DESTROYED along with the entire planet)

 

Jedi of that Era normally had wives husbands lovers and children. There were entire jedi bloodlines for example Ulic Qel Droma descended from long line of jedi knights after his mother. So Nomi Sunrider and her husband. So all that Bastila romance crap is most stupid thing after Leviathan's duel. Normally Bastila would be a virgin only if she existed during the Phantom Menace times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I heard that after the Exar Kun war the Jedi began to restrict romantic entanglements of Jedi, hence Bastila's reluctance..........

 

Let's say honestly devs sucked many matters in KOTOR with their false vision of the Jedi. Jedi in KOTOR are taken from Phantom Menace and that's wrong cause they should be portrayed according to EU material. Any of the bioweenies never read Tales of the Jedi Companion, Power of the Jedi and Dark Side Sourcebook.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bioweenies?

[Darth Nuke]

Krath were a secret darkside society. They were founded by Satal and Aleema Keto, heirs to the throne of the Empress Teta System. The name" Krath" they took

from the demon that their caretakers were telling them tales about. They stolen

artifacts from the Galactic Museum and later Freedon Nadd empowered the cult.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If Onderon wasn't part of the Empress Teta system then how did Freedon Nadd influence the Ketos?

 

Naga Sadow died on Yavin so what's his tomb doing on Korriban?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, lots of ancient kings built their tomb while they're still alive.......

 

And there's no Jedi Council in so ancient times. Every master was independent and led his own school. Decisions were made by massive convocations (like that on Deneba or Exis Station) and only important rank was SPEAKER who guarded order during such convocations - Odan Urr later Nomi Sunrider.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

KOTOR is 40 years later; maybe they did some restructuring? (especially with their facility on Ossus DESTROYED along with the entire planet)

 

Jedi of that Era normally had wives husbands lovers and children. There were entire jedi bloodlines for example Ulic Qel Droma descended from long line of jedi knights after his mother. So Nomi Sunrider and her husband. So all that Bastila romance crap is most stupid thing after Leviathan's duel. Normally Bastila would be a virgin only if she existed during the Phantom Menace times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I heard that after the Exar Kun war the Jedi began to restrict romantic entanglements of Jedi, hence Bastila's reluctance..........

 

Let's say honestly devs sucked many matters in KOTOR with their false vision of the Jedi. Jedi in KOTOR are taken from Phantom Menace and that's wrong cause they should be portrayed according to EU material. Any of the bioweenies never read Tales of the Jedi Companion, Power of the Jedi and Dark Side Sourcebook.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bioweenies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

To your first two.

 

Freedon Nadd was Dead when he came to the Keto's. He was a Sith Lord, and could do such things.

 

And Sadow tomb in KOTOR would even be his tomb in continuity. It's more or less just a Memorial, that's all.

[Darth Barth]

If Onderon wasn't part of the Empress Teta system then how did Freedon Nadd influence the Ketos?

 

Uh, they get the idea from watching a news report on television in their apartment... I'm serious.. page 24, Freedon Nadd Uprising #2.

[Zero_Kelvin]

This has been discussed in another topic but I would like to see (if they make one, and they should) a KotOR 3 during the Sith War. We'll get a chance to see a great jedi war (we could participate in one), characters like Exar Kun, Ulic Quel Droma, Mandalore and even a young Jolee Bindo. I know that there are comics, and some say it's been done to death, but so could others said about the whole star wars universe ("6 movies, isn't that enough?!", of course not!)., and it will be a different point of view, your character point of view. The comics and everything else we know will be just a bakcground for the story they would create, a starting point, a reference. Imagine an area were there are several (i don't know how many the video card would handle) jedi fighting the sith, a you could change the tide of that battle to the faction you want.

 

Zero

[Nur Ab Sal]

The words of Uthar Wynn suggested clearly that Naga Sadow died on Korriban. This is the impression you get from conversation with him. In his tomb there is sarcophagus, just like in other tombs, and all this Sadow thing is a typical mistake of a people that don't know Expanded Universe and yet make SW games.

 

Argument that after Exar Kun romantic involvement were banned is stupid. Read the Redemption man. Convocation model was in use 10 years after Ossus' doom

and worked well so idea with jedi council fools came from TPM (yodalike Vandar didn't tell you anything?) You say that maybe Bane wasn's first darth? Oh ypou mean that crappy living force-cularin thing made by WOTC when they were beginners in SW industry? Buy yourself Dark Side Sourcebook or enter Brotherhood of Sith homepage and enlight yourself. Title darth is the trademark of

modern sith order (1000 years from darth bane to darth vader) and bioweenies(yes I think they are lazy fools if they didn't read source materials which was their duty) sucked that matter as well as others (like copying Neverwinter nights storyline)

 

Besides its obvious that devs were looking more to the TPM than to the ancient era sourcebooks. In star wars boards every fan that knows EU will tell you that Bioware sucked with the vision of the jedi (not quivalent to the times) and with too modern look of ancient universe (KOTOR looks like Classic Trilogy contemporary with all that cybernetic implants and other non-ancient things)

[Delerius_Jedi]

I think you misunderstood me. I know that the comics portray Exar Kun and the Sith War, Ulic Qel-Droma, Nomi Sunrider, etc. I didn't say there was a conflict of interest, I said that KotOR 1 wasn't based on the comics of the same name but used them as a historical background. One of the posters here appeared to believe that KotOR 2 would be related to the comics named Dark Lords of the Sith. I pointed out that there would probably be no direct relation in the same fashion KotOR 1 had no direct relation to the comics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I am sorry, my mistake.

 

 

The words of Uthar Wynn suggested clearly that Naga Sadow died on Korriban. This is the impression you get from conversation with him. In his tomb there is sarcophagus, just like in other tombs, and all this Sadow thing is a typical mistake of a people that don't know Expanded Universe and yet make SW games.

 

Argument that after Exar Kun romantic involvement were banned is stupid. Read the Redemption man. Convocation model was in use 10 years after Ossus' doom

and worked well so idea with jedi council fools came from TPM (yodalike Vandar didn't tell you anything?) You say that maybe Bane wasn's first darth? Oh ypou mean that crappy living force-cularin thing made by WOTC when they were beginners in SW industry? Buy yourself Dark Side Sourcebook or enter Brotherhood of Sith homepage and enlight yourself. Title darth is the trademark of

modern sith order (1000 years from darth bane to darth vader) and bioweenies(yes I think they are lazy fools if they didn't read source materials which their duty) sucked that matter as well as others (like copying Neverwinter nights storyline)

 

Besides its obvious that devs were looking more to the TPM than to the ancient era sourcebooks. In star wars boards every fan that knows EU will tell you that Bioware sucked with the vision of the jedi (not quivalent to the times) and with too modern look of ancient universe (KOTOR looks like Classic Trilogy contemporary with all that cybernetic implants and other non-ancient things)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well that is a difference of opinion here, I guess. I think Bioware did good with KOTOR, and truth be told, they had to design the game so it would look familiar to people who hadn't read Tales of the Jedi.

 

If they had popped in say: a mining ship from Exis Station, then noone would recognise it. Now with the SIth capital ships and fighters in KOTOR, everyone I've seen play it for the first time have been able to go "Those are the bad guys".

 

Again: I'd say the same thing applies to the "Darth" prefix. They needed it, so the casual Star Wars fan who was going to play KOTOR would be able to go "Ok, that's the villain"

Personally, I can forgive them this as IMO KOTOR turned out great anyway.

 

And according to SW lore, the Jedi Council apparently revised the Jedi Code after the first Sith War, thinking that it was having emotions and indulging them that led so many Jedi to the Dark Side(I really wish I could remember the reference here, I believe it was in one of the old Tales of the Jedi RPG sourcebooks, which aren't available anymore).

 

I don't remember the word, but the emphasis of the old code was to let you know you have emotions, and dealing with them. So just because you felt passion did not mean you should shun it, you should just not let it rule you.(If someone has this source book and could look it up, it'd really be great)

 

And I'll agree: One of the better aspects of Tales of the Jedi was the tragic romance of Ulic Qel-Droma and Nomi Sunrider, the conclusion of Redemption was just done so well...very emotionally engaging.

 

And romance wasn't banned from the order after the war, but it was not encouraged either, due to the emotions attached. So in time, I suppose it just became a dogma within the Order.

[Dead Skin Mask]

Buy yourself Dark Side Sourcebook or enter Brotherhood of Sith homepage and enlight yourself. Title darth is the trademark of modern sith order (1000 years from darth bane to darth vader) and bioweenies(yes I think they are lazy fools if they didn't read source materials which was their duty) sucked that matter as well as others (like copying Neverwinter nights storyline)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

So True!

 

Cheers!

[Dark Wastl]

Who cares about Sourcebooks or homepages?

If Lucas or LucasArts decide to change something, than this new version will count, as they are the one's who have the last say in everything.

[Nur Ab Sal]

Man you are babbling now. It's the Lucasfilm that guards the continuity. They will never "change" anything cause they would lost any credibility in the eyes of fans.

Fanpages and sourcebooks present authorized material approved by GL, and Gallo/Avellone and Bioweenies have to accept this or get lost. Lucasarts has big independence and they often do what they want simply becouse Lucas Licensing has no time to check everything out . And Bioware, well they are from the other field so hard to think that they just learn everything, only to make EU-correct game. Either you are an ignorant or a silly kid. If you don't sit in SW and you aren't a fan be quiet.

[Drakron]

Who cares about Sourcebooks or homepages?

If Lucas or LucasArts decide to change something, than this new version will count, as they are the one's who have the last say in everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Change?

 

Here is the list of what is considered cannon.

 

Movie

Movie novilization

Novels

Comics

Games

 

SW:KotOR is at the bottom of what can be consider to be cannon, if you want to argue about Rookie One blowing up the first Death Star ....

[Delerius_Jedi]

Man you are babbling now. It's the Lucasfilm that guards the continuity. They will never "change" anything cause they would lost any credibility in the eyes of fans.

Fanpages and sourcebooks present authorized material approved by GL, and Gallo/Avellone and Bioweenies have to accept this or get lost. Lucasarts has big independence and they often do what they want simply becouse Lucas Licensing has no time to check everything out . And Bioware, well they are from the other field so hard to think that they just learn everything, only to make EU-correct game. Either you are an ignorant or a silly kid. If you don't sit in SW and you aren't a fan be quiet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, they may not have gotten everything right, but they did manage to get in references to key points such as the Sith War and Exar Kun. I don't think it degrades the game.

 

Who cares about Sourcebooks or homepages?

If Lucas or LucasArts decide to change something, than this new version will count, as they are the one's who have the last say in everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Change?

 

Here is the list of what is considered cannon.

 

Movie

Movie novilization

Novels

Comics

Games

 

SW:KotOR is at the bottom of what can be consider to be cannon, if you want to argue about Rookie One blowing up the first Death Star ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, let's please not get into canon discussions here guys. They just lead to flaming and locking of threads.

And Rebel Assault was just an arcade game, so it's not to be taken into the Star Wars timeline.

 

You will notice that none of the Rogue Squadron games have been made canon, either.

 

But anyway: the Tales of the Jedi are canon, and I'm sure Obsidian will make a game that won't disrupt the timeline or distort facts, have faith in them

 

Now, can we get back to Tales of the Jedi?

 

What parts of Iziz do you think Obsidian might explore? Do you think we might end up doing a side-quest in the tomb of Freedon Nadd?

[Nur Ab Sal]

I hope so, although Exar Kun robbed the place 50 years ago and left nothing for us

[Drakron]

You will notice that none of the Rogue Squadron games have been made canon, either.

 

Its EU, everything that have the Lucas logo is cannon.

 

Things in contradiction cannot be consider cannon and so there is a list of what product types that over precedent over others.

 

Kyle Kartan for example is canon, he is mentioned in some novels but many parts of Jedi Knight series can perhaps not be considered cannon.

 

But anyway: the Tales of the Jedi are canon, and I'm sure Obsidian will make a game that won't disrupt the timeline or distort facts, have faith in them

 

BioWare did not, this evolves from a BioWare product that contradicted some of Star Wars cannon and at things are its the comics that are right, the games even if they are newer cannot override the comics because the games stand lower that the comics.

 

My post was to dispell any silly ideas that some computer game can contradict was happens to be in other Lucas products, video game sit at the bottom and anything else with a lucas logo overrules then.

[Topaz Quasar]

Thread didn't even make it to 4 pages before flames broke out........

[Drakron]

Thread didn't even make it to 4 pages before flames broke out........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is what happens when trying to educate fanboys ... I bet the Tolkien forums take even worst crap.

[Adria Teksuni]

Ya' know, I thought people wanted to discuss ToTJ.

 

Turned out one poster only wanted to grandstand and tell everyone who disagreed with him he was wrong.

 

Closed for flamage.