The All Things Political Topic - SNAFU edition

[Malcador]

44 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Isn't she in Russia?

Not anymore, according to Lavrov anyway 

[Zoraptor]

I wonder if anyone has told Trump just how bad Venezuelan oil is? Canada's tar sands aren't great, but they make the vast majority of Venezuela's stuff look like light sweet Brent comparatively.

[HoonDing]

Truly worthy of a recipient of the FIFA Piss Prize.

[Malcador]

https://www.axios.com/2026/01/03/trump-maduro-venezuela-mexico-sheinbaum

That's encouraging

[Zoraptor]

It'll be hilarious- for a certain definition of hilarious- watching some of the usual suspects contort themselves into justifying the US invading Mexico, or Canada, or Greenland. In particular Kallis/ von der Leyen. I'm not sure even invading Denmark would be enough for them to grow a spine.

Giving any sort of justification for invading a country for 'regime change' is incredibly short sighted because even if you say it's a special case every other case is also special, to someone. Recent history is littered with such short sighted stupidities. It's even worse when it's Donald Trump, a man with an enormously fragile ego and an obvious need for a capital L Legacy. You don't need articles like the one above to know that Venezuela will not be a special case. This is how you end up with Iran, Brazil, South Africa and a dozen other countries with nuclear weapons; and they'd be entirely justified in it.

You can kind of understand someone like Zelensky cheerleading it despite the potential... implications, for him. A willingness to justify it from Kallis and von der Leyen and other members of the- and it really is a laugh out loud designation at this point- Rules Based Order while not at all surprising is as stupid long term as their abject surrender in the tariff war. Same as for Netanyahu all you're actually saying to them is that you're fine with them doing anything, so long as it's them doing it. 

[Malcador]

 

 

[uuuhhii]

so eu are as pathetic as expected

maybe usa should have their argentina minion take over falkland

would be really good distraction

[BruceVC]

12 hours ago, Malcador said:

Ah , the rules based order. Trump saying the US will run the country, heh.  Given they took no fire, guess they negotiated it with underlings?

Well if he did, who would stop him? And you'd cheerlead that, anyway.

No, I wouldn't cheerlead any stable  Democratically elected government being regime changed by the US 

You clearly haven't been reading any of my posts over the last 15 years 

 

[Lexx]

This crap is ridiculous. There is absolutely no need for the US to annex Greenland, and yet... the wife of Stephen Miller.

 

Edited Sunday at 07:35 AM by Lexx

[Malcador]

A nation run by edgelords.  Ah well, shame karma doesn't exist.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/20/us/politics/venezuela-maduro-fallout-trump.html

Interesting to note, even if is out of date.

 

Edited Sunday at 08:10 AM by Malcador

[uuuhhii]

usa would see the need to take greenland if they are plan to ditch nato

they do see nato as deadweight for some reason

the fact denmark didn't immediately bow and scrap offering both greenland and their eternal loyalty to usa is also seen as ungrateful

[HoonDing]

There are ppl who still think the army, even the country, will revolt when the order comes to invade Canada.

Edited Sunday at 04:41 PM by HoonDing

[Malcador]

https://www.politico.com/news/2026/01/04/trump-warns-acting-venezuelan-leader-00710314

“If she doesn’t do what’s right, she is going to pay a very big price, probably bigger than Maduro,” Trump said."

 

 

 

 

[Elerond]

10 minutes ago, Malcador said:

https://www.politico.com/news/2026/01/04/trump-warns-acting-venezuelan-leader-00710314

“If she doesn’t do what’s right, she is going to pay a very big price, probably bigger than Maduro,” Trump said."

Clearly she is even worse drug dealer, she should repent as soon as possible and send oil instead of drugs to US 

[uuuhhii]

usa are already trying to push domino theory propaganda against cuba

obviously cuba was on the top of the list for a long time

venezuela didn't fold yet but usa seem to expect full capitulation soon

[Malcador]

They fired Moran for speaking the truth, remember.

 

[rjshae]

Heh, criminal ex-President to go on trial... and it's not Trump. I wonder how the negotiations for Maduro's pardon are coming along? Presumably Hernández will be consulted for tips.

[BruceVC]

7 hours ago, Malcador said:

They fired Moran for speaking the truth, remember.

 

Do you consider Maduro a legitimate leader for Venezuela?

And whats your definition of a legitimate leader in any country that calls itself a Democracy that has elections 

For me its very simple, you just have to win a free and fair election

@rjshae and @Zoraptor Im also interested in what you think about this question and anyone else can respond 

 

 

 

 

[rjshae]

4 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Do you consider Maduro a legitimate leader for Venezuela?

And whats your definition of a legitimate leader in any country that calls itself a Democracy that has elections 

For me its very simple, you just have to win a free and fair election

@rjshae and @Zoraptor Im also interested in what you think about this question and anyone else can respond 

It's irrelevant whether I consider him a "legitimate" leader; the government of Venezuela considered him their legitimate President. North Korea calls itself a people's democracy and holds "democratic" elections. Is there any doubt that Kim Jung Un is the legal President of North Korea?

International Law and the U.S. Military and Law Enforcement Operations in Venezuela

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, rjshae said:

It's irrelevant whether I consider him a "legitimate" leader; the government of Venezuela considered him their legitimate President. North Korea calls itself a people's democracy and holds "democratic" elections. Is there any doubt that Kim Jung Un is the legal President of North Korea?

International Law and the U.S. Military and Law Enforcement Operations in Venezuela

My question is not about the removing of Maduro by the USA. 

Im interested if you consider free and fair elections as relevant for  domestic legitimacy in any country outside the US?

Venezuela claims to be a Democracy and have free and fair elections 

But Maduro stole the last 2 elections, it was so bad Brazil refused to allow Venezuela to join BRICS in 2024

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c624m4kgrg3o

This is about your own opinion so it is relevant to the question

 

 

 

 

[Malcador]

Miller also ranting about might makes right is funny given what a weak man he is. I guess someone stronger can go take his wife and house.

7 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Do you consider Maduro a legitimate leader for Venezuela?

And this has what to do with the US operation ? Also my point was Miller's attitude and.... interesting vision of history.  But anyway, this is a fruitless vector, as usual.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

55 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Miller also ranting about might makes right is funny given what a weak man he is. I guess someone stronger can go take his wife and house.

Elon Musk already has taken his wife.

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Malcador said:

Miller also ranting about might makes right is funny given what a weak man he is. I guess someone stronger can go take his wife and house.

And this has what to do with the US operation ? Also my point was Miller's attitude and.... interesting vision of history.  But anyway, this is a fruitless vector, as usual.

Nothing to do with the US operation, Im asking outside of Canada do you believe legitimacy for a leader should  only be determined by free and fair elections

Some people dont care

In Africa we have seen 7-8 free and fair elections recently with  a  peaceful transfer of power and it gets celebrated

I support that because political legitimacy in any Democracy matters to me 

 

 

[Zoraptor]

What's even the point of that question anyway? Apart from trolling.

Morsi in Egypt, MbS, the al Thani's in Qatar, haven't had proper elections or anything approaching it and are considered fine. Morsi was considered fine and his elections free after blatantly machinegunning thousands. Even Zelensky has prorogued his term and is refusing to hold elections. The US won't invade any of them, removing Zelensky by force wouldn't be justified using his overstaying his term as an excuse and Maduro being 'illegitimate' is not the reason for his kidnapping; it's just an excuse for those for people who cannot stomach 'narcoterrorist' as one. That's obvious to anyone with critical faculties.

The real question as in all these situations is: if I considered the above, or Trump, an illegitimate leader and had the power to remove them, would it be ok if I did so? Would it have been ok if Putin had removed Maduro (even without burbling about stealing their oil)? 

Not a great hill to die on, defending Trump's decision on the basis of 'democracy'. It's a defence solely based on positive feelz about the perpetrator, and negative ones about the victim. It's also, of course, an utterly terrible idea because it encourages Trump and says that anything is OK, so long as it's him doing it.

Trump's also implied that if Venezuela's leadership doesn't play ball he'll kill them. Truly, democratic values at play there. Same as threatening Honduras if they didn't elect the candidate he wanted there. 

If you've got rules they apply to everyone. They prevent people you like from doing things they want to as much as they prevent people you don't like. They also provide protections to those you don't like as much as those you do. If the sole basis of what you approve of is whether you like the perpetrator or the victim then you're a awful person- or an awful country. The sooner the collective west wakes up to that the better.

Edited 22 hours ago by Zoraptor

[BruceVC]

6 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

What's even the point of that question anyway? Apart from trolling.

Morsi in Egypt, MbS, the al Thani's in Qatar, haven't had proper elections or anything approaching it and are considered fine. Morsi was considered fine and his elections free after blatantly machinegunning thousands. Even Zelensky has prorogued his term and is refusing to hold elections. The US won't invade any of them, removing Zelensky by force wouldn't be justified using his overstaying his term as an excuse and Maduro being 'illegitimate' is not the reason for his kidnapping; it's just an excuse for those for people who cannot stomach 'narcoterrorist' as one. That's obvious to anyone with critical faculties.

The real question as in all these situations is: if I considered the above, or Trump, an illegitimate leader and had the power to remove them, would it be ok if I did so? Would it have been ok if Putin had removed Maduro (even without burbling about stealing their oil)? 

Not a great hill to die on, defending Trump's decision on the basis of 'democracy'. It's a defence solely based on positive feelz about the perpetrator, and negative ones about the victim. It's also, of course, an utterly terrible idea because it encourages Trump and says that anything is OK, so long as it's him doing it.

Trump's also implied that if Venezuela's leadership doesn't play ball he'll kill them. Truly, democratic values at play there. Same as threatening Honduras if they didn't elect the candidate he wanted there. 

If you've got rules they apply to everyone. They prevent people you like from doing things they want to as much as they prevent people you don't like. They also provide protections to those you don't like as much as those you do. If the sole basis of what you approve of is whether you like the perpetrator or the victim then you're a awful person- or an awful country. The sooner the collective west wakes up to that the better.

I have already explained why Im asking and why political legitimacy matters 

Its not about Maduro or the US

Almost all the most  stable and prosperous African countries have gone through free and fair elections and the leadership has legitimacy because of this. So it does matter

And Egypt is not a country whose leadership I admire but it is economically stable but that is only part of what matters to me

So if you can just answer the question without trying to overthink it that would be great

But if you dont care thats also fine. I realize you live in a first world country where free and fair elections are a given but thats not  the reality in many  parts of Africa and the global south