The All Things Political Topic - SNAFU edition

[rjshae]

10 hours ago, BruceVC said:

What the GOP needs to do is change there entire strategy around how ICE enforces migration laws 

And Im talking about the optics and reality around  ICE arrests and these violent   raids  on buildings and apartments 

Its alienating large parts of the Hispanic community and they will lose votes 

Trump ran on deportations of illegals as a popular policy and large numbers of Hispanics voted for him 

But they never signed up for how ICE is conducting themselves. Im not sure how exactly they would change things but I would start with being less militant and working with state and city officials to enforce migration laws

This idea of  ICE bypassing or just ignoring   local authorities is not working and its mostly Dem cities where you see this practice by ICE 

From a mile-high perspective, the fundamental problem is that illegal immigrants are deeply embedded in the US economy, and trying to extract that component is going to have negative consequences for everybody. It would be less impactful if they focused on avoiding new illegal immigration and extraditing the newest arrivals before they become entrenched. But either way the optics won't look pretty.

[Malcador]

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/11/06/politics/trump-venezuela-legal-congress-land

To paraphrase Barry Dennen, respect for the law, 'til now this has been noticeably lacking 

[Gfted1]

7 minutes ago, rjshae said:

From a mile-high perspective, the fundamental problem is that illegal immigrants are deeply embedded in the US economy, and trying to extract that component is going to have negative consequences for everybody. It would be less impactful if they focused on avoiding new illegal immigration and extraditing the newest arrivals before they become entrenched. But either way the optics won't look pretty.

Give everyone a SSN and call it a day. Theres no reason the US has to limit immigration.

[Gromnir]

sandwich guy trial, after two days of jury deliberation, still hasn't produced a verdict.

...

somebody (multiple bodies?) on this jury does not want to punish the defendant.

am gonna admit we had to look up fed criminal misdemeanor assault, 'cause that is literal something we never saw when we worked criminal. am suspecting the fact nobody has ever needed give jury instructions for misdemeanor assault is the reason why this ludicrous trial has stretched to five freaking days.

the fed statute for criminal misdemeanor assault, pretty much has the same elements as common law civil battery:

an act by the defendant

intent to commit the act by the defendant-- not accidental contact

a harmful or offensive touching

lack o' consent by the plaintiff... of course since this is criminal, there is no plaintiff, so instead you got the victim.

that's it, and same as civil (which means we are talking about money damages instead o' loss o' liberty for the defendant,) the standard o' review for the tryer of fact is a reasonable person standard insofar as what constitutes a harmful or offensive touching, although you need evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict.

our "pretty much" is doing some heavy lifting and is what has caused confusion, 'cause as is typical, when yahoos write laws, they feel need to add... flair. every word matters. the final jury instructions read pretty much what we got above, but...

regardless, 

am personal rooting for sandwich guy, but this isn't a tough call which needs multiple days o' deliberation... save that at least somebody on the jury most certain doesn't want to find this guy guilty. yeah, there were not even the possibility o' meaningful harm in the sandwich toss, and proving that sandwich guy intended to harm the cbp officer is beyond mere improbable, but is difficult to imagine the reasonable person who wouldn't see being pelted with a sandwich as punctuation to a verbal tirade as constituting an offensive act. 

however, we will note the court messed this whole thing up by providing less than clear jury instructions, which again, is surprisingly understandable seeing as how none o' the lawyers or the judge has needed to consider jury instructions for criminal misdemeanor assault previous to the start o' the sandwich guy trial.

in any event, if somebody we trusted had told us that this would be, at minimum, a five day trial, we woulda' suggested they were chemical altered. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps a reminder, a misdemeanor may include jail time up to one year. as such, from the defendant's pov, this is hardly the nothingburger people would reflexive assume it to be. 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by Gromnir

[Malcador]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/06/politics/sean-dunn-dc-sandwich-thrower-verdict

Acquitted 

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/06/politics/sean-dunn-dc-sandwich-thrower-verdict

Acquitted 

am genuine disappointed, but not with the verdict. jeanine pirro taking this to a jury were vulgar, and am glad the jury functional told the government to, f-off. however, now that there has been a verdict, we won't be able to talk about how insane it is that sandwich guy were on trial for...

aside, am knowing it sounds odd, but am hopeful the Court allows trump to do his tariffs. yes, trump's tariffs is unconstitutional, but that hasn't stopped this Court from changing precedent and/or for altering the clear meaning o' the text o' the Constitution to benefit trump. declare trump's tariffs unconstitutional saves trump from himself and then the president may also blame any subsequent economic pain on the Court's interference.

americans need to feel economic pain to realize trump ain't some kinda business mastermind playing 3-d chess while every other country is playing checkers. it would be unfortunate that just as increased costs from trump's tariffs begin hurting ordinary americans, the Court could swoop in and save him... although if they sit on this and then final deliver their opinion in july, that could be ideal. 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited 17 hours ago by Gromnir

[Malcador]

Good thing the guy didn't hit him with some ethnic food. Would have been terror charges

[Gromnir]

two amusing tweets

and

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

13 hours ago, rjshae said:

From a mile-high perspective, the fundamental problem is that illegal immigrants are deeply embedded in the US economy, and trying to extract that component is going to have negative consequences for everybody. It would be less impactful if they focused on avoiding new illegal immigration and extraditing the newest arrivals before they become entrenched. But either way the optics won't look pretty.

You right in the general sense and that  applies to most countries that have a crisis with illegal migration like South Africa. There is an irrefutable reality around  the work and contribution that illegal migrants do 

And yes it makes more sense to focus on border control and quick deportations for those caught trying to enter illegally

Because whats not working is the heavy handiness of what ICE is doing  around these streets arrests and violent raids within established communities. And the voting optics and outcomes matter  because of the perceptions around how ICE is conducting themselves

For example ICE will raid an apartment block that is in  a Latino  community  and lets say 15% are illegal migrants, the other 85% see how ICE is dragging people into vans and families are being destroyed and it goes down very badly 

And then as I mentioned ICE isnt interested in most Dem states and cities with working with local authorities. So they seen as this violent Federal  intervention force that has no regard for what citizens think or there basic rights 

And thats why the GOP needs to change this strategy or I predict more election losses like on Tuesday  

 

[Gromnir]

15 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

Give everyone a SSN and call it a day. Theres no reason the US has to limit immigration.

this sounds like a reagan republican position. not a criticism btw, just a recognition at how different the politics of immigration has become in a couple decades. 

keep in mind, based on 2024 predictions, social security will likely run dry o' money in a decade, or a bit less. is a dirty and not-so-secret truth that illegal immigrants, who pay taxes and thus support social security, do not benefit from the program. seeing as how nobody has come up with a politically practical solution for the looming social security collapse, and recognizing that illegal immigrants is offering substantial aid in preventing the grim reaper from visiting social security, there has been little motivation to end such a beneficial if unbalanced relationship 'tween the US and illegals.

also, if you got ~50% o' the country convinced that immigrants is a drag on local economies, take jobs from americans, commit violent crime at disproportionate rates, and eat the local cat and dog population, universal amnesty for immigrants is gonna be a tough political sell.

alternatives to "give everyone a ssn," is hb-1 and h2-a programs, which seeks to provide greater access o' temporary work visas to foreigners looking for work opportunities in the US. 

 

most illegal immigrants in the US is people who came here legal. individuals overstaying hb-1, f-1, m-1 and h2-a visas represent the majority o' illegals, but ice and cbp ain't raiding google or intel campuses.

if there were a simple and political viable solution, somebody woulda' implemented it decades past. the problem is that illegal immigration is simultaneous a boon for the US economy and a political landmine nobody has wanted to touch until recent.  exacerbating the issue in 2025 is that 'tween fears o' widespread cartel violence and the embrace o' the great replacement theory by fox viewers, not to mention a widespread misapprehension about who illegal immigrants is regardless o' political identification, solutions has become increasing unlikely.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited 5 hours ago by Gromnir