The All Things Political Topic - Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence

[BruceVC]

Overall I was happy with the interview between Trump and the South African delegation

As I expected Ramaphosa maintained his decorum and didnt allow himself to become emotional when Trump was peddling certain exaggerations and also nothing was lost in translation because Ramaphosa is proficient in English unlike Zelensky

It was a good move for SA to take several prominent white Afrikaners as part of the delegation, I laughed at the whole " golf angle " because Trump loves his golf

But you have to engage with Trump like this if you face a potential backlash, you pander to his hubris and connect with him on things he has in common 

End of the day the main issue that Trump mostly focused on was the claims of white genocide and this was predictable and  what Trump does. But as usual with these types of  talking points there is some truth to it and the way you address it is not to ignore it but rather address what is true and what is not

What is true is we have farm killings where whole families are killed and its a  terrible type of murder in a country with a high murder rate. But its not genocide by the correct definition of what genocide means. Its another example of a word being used in a wrong context to achieve maximum global impact

But what is incredibly unhelpful around this debate   is how parties like the EFF still sing the song " kill the Boer " 

For many people overseas you hear stories of white genocide and then you see real videos of the likes of the EFF celebrating and laughing while singing this song. It really creates a bad and inaccurate perception

I mentioned this before but its a pity the EFF lacks the sensitivity and common-sense to care about how this song adds to false narrative of white genocide 

Even though the song is allowed under freedom of speech. I am glad the leader of the DA in the interview , John Steenhuizen, clarified that this song is not being sung by the ANC and its opposition parties that are the ones doing it

One thing I always find strange in most of these press interviews with Trump  is how all the  journalists end up screaming to get a chance to ask questions, surly there must be a better way to ask questions outside that type of chaos  

 

 

 

[Gorth]

To be honest the only government sanctioned persecution of white farmers I’ve heard of was Robert Mugabe’s goons and that was a different country 

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, Gorth said:

To be honest the only government sanctioned persecution of white farmers I’ve heard of was Robert Mugabe’s goons and that was a different country 

Yes, what happened in Zimbabwe was the worst kind  of state sponsored " nationalization " of land owned by white farmers 

But it cant even be called nationalization, hundreds of so called war veterans literally descended on white farms and gave them 48 hours to leave. And these  were white people who had lived in Zimbabwe for generations  and had no other home.

And the farms taken ended up being given to ZANU-PF loyalists and politically connected people and then most of the farms ended up not being managed properly and most them stopped being productive. Mugabes wife ended up owning 8 farms or so and that was just her 

So that entire Zimbabwe outcome  was the most failed and worst kind of nationalization Im sure in the history of any kind of nationalization 

That outcome still resonates within South Africa for several reasons. Firstly its used in a false comparison to  what could happen in SA, when its almost impossible to believe that could ever be allowed but then Zimbabwe is basically a failed economic  state and we have millions of illegal Zimbabweans within the country because of the collapse of the Zimbabwe economy and the way the land grabs happened were part of  that collapse 

So its very common to hear " we dont want to end up like Zimbabwe" and the way farms were taken is part of that narrative 

But yes, the reality of what happened in Zimbabwe is  not the reality of SA. Even though political parties like the EFF call for Zimbabwe style nationalization they dont represent the government 

 

 

[uuuhhii]

very pathetic excuses for the total failure of south africa

30 year and most land and still held by colonizer 

[BruceVC]

3 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

very pathetic excuses for the total failure of south africa

30 year and most land and still held by colonizer 

You just repeating  some uninformed BS  rhetoric that you read  on some  selective SM source

Anyone can buy or own a farm  or land if they have money in South Africa . But title deeds and property rights matter and you cant  just expropriate someone's farm  because 100 years ago  that land the farm is now built on  might have belonged to  someone else. And we have  an entire program that has been running for years around land distribution and its rampant with corruption and inefficiencies

And what do you define as a " total failure " 

Do you believe if someone doesnt own  land or a farm  then they dont have anything or they cant claim to have   achieved anything?

Most people in the world dont own land or a farm, most people own a bonded property as there main asset 

 

[uuuhhii]

that is the same ridiculous reparation for slave owner logic

take back land from colonizer are the goal south africa set for themself

so by the standard south africa it is total failure

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, uuuhhii said:

that is the same ridiculous reparation for slave owner logic

take back land from colonizer are the goal south africa set for themself

so by the standard south africa it is total failure

But thats not a real goal that can be achieved

What if a Chinese investment buys land in South Africa or any investor buys land after 1994?

That happens all the time, land ownership in South Africa  is never going to be about " white people cant ever own land because all the land must belong to black people  " 

It really is an unrealistic and silly objective to have 

Land in South Africa is already owned by several main groups 

• black tribal chiefs already own large amounts of land. In one province alone called Kwa-Zulu the Zulu king owns 30% of all the land in a trust. And there 8 kings in SA and they have similar land ownership in different parts of the country but the Zulu king has the biggest trust because Zulus are the biggest tribe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingonyama_Trust

• Local and foreign investors own land for businesses as part of normal investment 
• Government owns large amount of land, 23% of total land is already owned by the state 
• Then you have white and black farmers who own farms and yes white farmers own 70% of farms but thats not total land, thats established farms 

 

The point Im making is the whole land ownership debate in SA is much more nuanced and complex than saying " SA failed because the colonizers own the land " 

Here is good link that summarizes the reality of the land question, if you or anyone else is interested in this topic I would recommend you read it and Im more than prepared to answer questions or clarify anything

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2025-03-10-land-ownership-in-sa-the-facts-and-figures/

@Gorth I know you cant wait to jump into this link 

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by BruceVC

[uuuhhii]

isn't it funny things always become complicated when colonizer have to give up something

there is no reason with delusional formal colonial empire or anyone benefited under them

india did the the right thing when they take back goa by force

[BruceVC]

19 minutes ago, uuuhhii said:

isn't it funny things always become complicated when colonizer have to give up something

there is no reason with delusional formal colonial empire or anyone benefited under them

india did the the right thing when they take back goa by force

Yes but thats what Im trying to explain  to you

Thats not an accurate debate when it comes to South Africa if you talking about land ownership

Its not true that " colonizers own all the land " 

Dont let yourself get fooled and manipulated by that type of false narrative 

 

[Malcador]

Ironic all the people moaning about EFF in the US are all for the AfD and "free speech". 

[BruceVC]

11 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Ironic all the people moaning about EFF in the US are all for the AfD and "free speech". 

No one likes a racist and it doesnt matter if its a white racist or a black racist and even if the comments are covered under freedom of speech 

But definitely some of the outrage  from the US is from white racists  or critics of Africa who are using this opportunity to go on about " look, black people are so racist ...you see we told you they want to kill white people " 

And they dont  care that the EFF is not the ANC and that the EFF rhetoric doesnt represent what most South Africans believe 

 

[rjshae]

As usual, after complaining about a Democratic President's deficit spending, the Big B.S. Bill is predicted to add $3.7 trillion/decade to the deficit. Well at least that is less than the $7.8 trillion added during Trump's first term. (Biden's was $6.2 trillion.)

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

But definitely some of the outrage  from the US is from white racists  or critics of Africa who are using this opportunity to go on about " look, black people are so racist ...you see we told you they want to kill white people "

Wouldn't say some, pretty much is all, I think.  MAGA is all about grievance and now, at long last, they can show how the white man is being victimized.   

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Wouldn't say some, pretty much is all, I think.  MAGA is all about grievance and now, at long last, they can show how the white man is being victimized.   

Except of course they can’t, but maga cultists never seem to let facts get in the way of a good witch hunt. Anything else requires too much critical thinking. BBC put the claims through their fact checking process and you can almost hear the groans when fact is compared to Trumps fictional word

[BruceVC]

23 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Except of course they can’t, but maga cultists never seem to let facts get in the way of a good witch hunt. Anything else requires too much critical thinking. BBC put the claims through their fact checking process and you can almost hear the groans when fact is compared to Trumps fictional word

Trump said several things that were a combination of exaggerations and then completely untrue

Here is an example if anyone watched the press release, Trump produced  footage of hundreds of white crosses and each one he claimed represent a white farmer who was killed 

Thats not true at all, those white crosses were put up temporarily after 2 farmers who were  killed in the area  and it was in recognition of farmers killed over the last 30 years 

@Malcador you will find this interesting  and Solidarity is a white Afrikaans union 

https://iol.co.za/news/south-africa/gauteng/2025-05-22-misleading-white-crosses-video-solidarity-responds-to-trumps-genocide-claims/

 

 

[Gorth]

41 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Trump said several things that were a combination of exaggerations and then completely untrue

Here is an example if anyone watched the press release, Trump produced  footage of hundreds of white crosses and each one he claimed represent a white farmer who was killed 

Thats not true at all, those white crosses were put up temporarily after 2 farmers who were  killed in the area  and it was in recognition of farmers killed over the last 30 years 

@Malcador you will find this interesting  and Solidarity is a white Afrikaans union 

https://iol.co.za/news/south-africa/gauteng/2025-05-22-misleading-white-crosses-video-solidarity-responds-to-trumps-genocide-claims/

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce9vxve994ro

 

There was an image clearly visible as Trump spoke and said: "Look, here's burial sites all over the place. These are all white farmers that are being buried."

Uh huh...

But the image isn't from South Africa - it's actually from a report about women being killed in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Summed up Trumps latest act of embarrassing himself in public quite nicely for me

44 people were killed in the farming community last year. All colours added up. In a year when 26,232 people were murdered. Makes farming seem like a very safe occupation by comparison.

 

Edit: The memorial from 2020 for the two farmers you mentioned were also mentioned in the BBC article at some point in addition to the old Reuters image from DR Congo that Trump used

[Hurlshort]

Today I reviewed habeas corpus with my students so they don't look like Kristi Noem if they end up in front of congress. I played the clip. It was fun to watch a senator ask a question that is on my unit exams every year.

[Gromnir]

27 minutes ago, Gorth said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce9vxve994ro

 

There was an image clearly visible as Trump spoke and said: "Look, here's burial sites all over the place. These are all white farmers that are being buried."

Uh huh...

But the image isn't from South Africa - it's actually from a report about women being killed in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Summed up Trumps latest act of embarrassing himself in public quite nicely for me

44 people were killed in the farming community last year. All colours added up. In a year when 26,232 people were murdered. Makes farming seem like a very safe occupation by comparison.

 

Edit: The memorial from 2020 for the two farmers you mentioned were also mentioned in the BBC article at some point in addition to the old Reuters image from DR Congo that Trump used

with the "african president" meeting in the oval office, trump is appealing to the sense o' pervasive white american victimhood. claim the media is ignoring white genocide in south africa speaks to his base bigly. doesn't need to be true.

furthermore, by sharing readily disprovable nonsense, trump is deflecting from the current sucking chest wound which is his big beautiful bill. the republican sponsored legislation provides tax breaks for the rich (and for tanning beds... serious,) while cutting medicaid, snap benefits, and 'ccording to the cbo, will necessarily result in the need to automatic reduce hundreds of billions of dollars in medicare benefits. 

of course the media is gonna criticize trump lies. more than a few media sources is even gonna suggest there is a racial animus to trump lies, a claim which further infuriates the trump base. even so, anything which distracts from the big bastard bill is good, right?

ok, the amusing part for us is leopards eating faces aspect.

if trump's firehose o' lies and pain direct affect you, then there is puzzlement and consternation, but no epiphany. you were fired 'cause 'o misguided doge cuts to the va or a fireman training facility? huh, that's was weird. you were benefiting from a life saving protocol being funded by nih, only to have rfk jr. suspend the program? yeah, that was a mistake. you are a south african who knows for a fact that trump is lying about white genocide o' farmers? yup, that were a blunder. all those folks, people who know trump is lying and/or enriching himself and the wealthiest .01% at their expense, nevertheless go along with all the other trump bs which don't personal affect them.

why believe trump and fox news about tariffs?

why believe trump and fox news about the immigrant invasion?

why believe trump about blm summer protests from 2020, the stolen election or his mar-a-lago documents? 

there is a special kinda obtuseness that trump has been unique able to tap into and exploit.  even when individuals know trump is lying about a, b, and c, those same people nevertheless take at face value trump and fox claims about d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n...

is genuine baffling to us that so many have faith in trump even after they witness the face-eating-leopard eating faces. am understanding the strength o' grievance and outrage, or rather we thought we had an understanding. we once thought, back in 2015, that it took a special kinda stoopid to fall for trump's lies and false promises. our mistake.

HA! Good Fun!

ps having elon in the oval office for the meeting with ramaphosa while musk is simultaneous working on his starlink deal with south africa were a curious look. wouldn't an ordinarily cynical person question whether some o' the US pressure on south africa were engineered by musk to create a better bargaining situation for elon? why have elon standing there as if to punctuate the validity o' such concerns?  

 

[Malcador]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Trump said several things that were a combination of exaggerations and then completely untrue

Here is an example if anyone watched the press release, Trump produced  footage of hundreds of white crosses and each one he claimed represent a white farmer who was killed 

Thats not true at all, those white crosses were put up temporarily after 2 farmers who were  killed in the area  and it was in recognition of farmers killed over the last 30 years 

@Malcador you will find this interesting  and Solidarity is a white Afrikaans union 

https://iol.co.za/news/south-africa/gauteng/2025-05-22-misleading-white-crosses-video-solidarity-responds-to-trumps-genocide-claims/

 

 

Ah ok, I hadn't seen that about the video of crosses.  Impressive the lies they can get away with, really.

And because no Jewish corpses can go to waste for Israel, 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-politicians-say-us-shooting-stems-from-western-leaders-emboldening-forces-of-terror/

 

 

[uuuhhii]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Ah ok, I hadn't seen that about the video of crosses.  Impressive the lies they can get away with, really.

And because no Jewish corpses can go to waste for Israel, 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-politicians-say-us-shooting-stems-from-western-leaders-emboldening-forces-of-terror/

 

 

 

they have grown far too complacent and arrogant over the many decade they gotten away with any atrocity and aggression very easily

now they can not control themself from acting idiotic and abrasive anymore

[Zoraptor]

10 hours ago, Malcador said:

Ironic all the people moaning about EFF in the US are all for the AfD and "free speech". 

I'd suspect there's at least one person in the WH who's all for AWB free speech, let alone the AfD.

Trump should have produced a video about Ramaphosa's role in machinegunning striking workers. Except, of course, Trump and Musk probably see that as something to aspire to rather than condemn.