The All Things Political Topic - Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence

[Zoraptor]

Always kind of amused by this sort of thing. It's truly shocking that China is an enemy to the west if, and only if, the west isn't an enemy to China. Which by any objective measure it quite clearly is. This sort of thing is entirely reciprocal but you're supposed to think that anything They do is wanton aggression, while us doing the same thing is purely defensive. Ever so very slightly Orwellian.

Anyone paying attention knows that the west and the US specifically has been sending black boxed systems to China (and everyone else) for literal decades. That's tremendous- everyone says it's tremendous, people stop me on the street to say it- for our security, not so much for theirs. Well, it's tremendous for us so long as our interests coincide with US ones, and the US is a rational player, and has a rational President, and doesn't put its economic precedence first and only and, uh, yeah.

By any objective measure China has been by far the best behaved of the major powers internationally. That just isn't saying much, considering how badly the other four permanent members of the UNSC have behaved.

[Azdeus]

51 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Always kind of amused by this sort of thing. It's truly shocking that China is an enemy to the west if, and only if, the west isn't an enemy to China. Which by any objective measure it quite clearly is. This sort of thing is entirely reciprocal but you're supposed to think that anything They do is wanton aggression, while us doing the same thing is purely defensive. Ever so very slightly Orwellian.

Anyone paying attention knows that the west and the US specifically has been sending black boxed systems to China (and everyone else) for literal decades. That's tremendous- everyone says it's tremendous, people stop me on the street to say it- for our security, not so much for theirs. Well, it's tremendous for us so long as our interests coincide with US ones, and the US is a rational player, and has a rational President, and doesn't put its economic precedence first and only and, uh, yeah.

By any objective measure China has been by far the best behaved of the major powers internationally. That just isn't saying much, considering how badly the other four permanent members of the UNSC have behaved.

Yes, because their threats to Taiwan and other nations sovereign territory is good behaviour? Running hidden police stations across the world? Kidnapping other nations citizens?

The fact that you and me both can discuss this, mention Tiananmen Square and call Winnie the Poo by his real name without being censured by the government and not be made homeless, speaks volumes.

Mango Mussolini and his fruitsalad cohort have some ways to go yet.

[Malcador]

6 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

the west is the threat

Only to brown people based off track record.

 

 

[rjshae]

It's pretty typical for economic rivals to disparage each other. Conflict with China seems more likely to occur through proxies, as is the case in Ukraine. An open clash is too likely to risk nuclear war, and China has been quietly increasing their nuclear stockpile.

[Sarex]

4 hours ago, Malcador said:

Only to brown people based off track record.

I think the west is very woke in that aspect. They've gone through the color chart.

[Zoraptor]

8 hours ago, Azdeus said:

Yes, because their threats to Taiwan and other nations sovereign territory is good behaviour?

No one said it was good. It is however better than, well, invading countries and getting a million people killed, training genocidal militia and getting a million people killed and the rest of the things France, Britain, the US and Russia have done. Some of them multiple times.

No country accepts Taiwan as independent. It'd be like, well, Georgia deciding to invade reintegrate South Ossetia; except of course that would be an invasion because we like Taiwan and don't like China- and Taiwan makes rather a lot of computer stuff we really don't want China getting their hands on.

In terms of actual invasions there's been one from China in the past 60 years which lasted six weeks and resulted in no occupation or similar. Which is just a tad better than those other countries mentioned.

Quote

Running hidden police stations across the world? Kidnapping other nations citizens?

The fact that you and me both can discuss this, mention Tiananmen Square and call Winnie the Poo by his real name without being censured by the government and not be made homeless, speaks volumes.

Though neither of those examples are exactly great since there are more than a few examples of the west kidnapping people. As well as extrajudicially blowing them up. And invading their countries, and murdering their citizens, then imprisoning the people who blow the whistle on that behaviour rather than the perpetrators. All depends on how you couch the terms of reference.

When it comes right down to it most people only care about other people's governments when it effects them- or they're told to by the media. Hence, the use of 'internationally'. China's conduct towards certain ethnic minorities is without doubt genocide; though as we've continually seen recently genocide, torture, mass killing of protected classes like journalists and medics etc is not actually a bar to western support, if we like the perpetrator.

[uuuhhii]

14 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

No one said it was good. It is however better than, well, invading countries and getting a million people killed, training genocidal militia and getting a million people killed and the rest of the things France, Britain, the US and Russia have done. Some of them multiple times.

No country accepts Taiwan as independent. It'd be like, well, Georgia deciding to invade reintegrate South Ossetia; except of course that would be an invasion because we like Taiwan and don't like China- and Taiwan makes rather a lot of computer stuff we really don't want China getting their hands on.

In terms of actual invasions there's been one from China in the past 60 years which lasted six weeks and resulted in no occupation or similar. Which is just a tad better than those other countries mentioned.

Though neither of those examples are exactly great since there are more than a few examples of the west kidnapping people. As well as extrajudicially blowing them up. And invading their countries, and murdering their citizens, then imprisoning the people who blow the whistle on that behaviour rather than the perpetrators. All depends on how you couch the terms of reference.

When it comes right down to it most people only care about other people's governments when it effects them- or they're told to by the media. Hence, the use of 'internationally'. China's conduct towards certain ethnic minorities is without doubt genocide; though as we've continually seen recently genocide, torture, mass killing of protected classes like journalists and medics etc is not actually a bar to western support, if we like the perpetrator.

 

funny how puppet and proxy of usa can provoke and posture all they want

but if anyone even raise their voice in response they are the aggressive one

then when usa coup them it is actually a good thing since now they stop raising a fuss

[Malcador]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-walmart-prices-tariffs-response/

Well at least he's owned up to who will be paying tariffs.

[BruceVC]

19 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

No one said it was good. It is however better than, well, invading countries and getting a million people killed, training genocidal militia and getting a million people killed and the rest of the things France, Britain, the US and Russia have done. Some of them multiple times.

No country accepts Taiwan as independent. It'd be like, well, Georgia deciding to invade reintegrate South Ossetia; except of course that would be an invasion because we like Taiwan and don't like China- and Taiwan makes rather a lot of computer stuff we really don't want China getting their hands on.

In terms of actual invasions there's been one from China in the past 60 years which lasted six weeks and resulted in no occupation or similar. Which is just a tad better than those other countries mentioned.

Though neither of those examples are exactly great since there are more than a few examples of the west kidnapping people. As well as extrajudicially blowing them up. And invading their countries, and murdering their citizens, then imprisoning the people who blow the whistle on that behaviour rather than the perpetrators. All depends on how you couch the terms of reference.

When it comes right down to it most people only care about other people's governments when it effects them- or they're told to by the media. Hence, the use of 'internationally'. China's conduct towards certain ethnic minorities is without doubt genocide; though as we've continually seen recently genocide, torture, mass killing of protected classes like journalists and medics etc is not actually a bar to western support, if we like the perpetrator.

The real and legitimate criticism of China is what it claims to offer the world   around its system of government that you see manifest and discussed  in the likes of BRICS stated objectives. Yes we all know  BRICS is a talk shop  but they have yearly meetings where they reinforce what they claim they believe in

Objectives like " a better and fairer world " , "  a world where the global south gets its  seat at the table " and where " they want to see a redesign of the global financial systems "

Its unclear how these objectives will ever be sustainably achieved considering you already have the UN and the BRICS Bank which is no different to the World Bank but it  has much less capital 

But the biggest inconsistency with these BRICS objectives is its most significant funder and influence, China, is  a country where people arent allowed basic human rights like freedom of speech, a free media to criticism government or   an independent judiciary so citizens can challenge government through courts 

So how  is BRICS ever going to create a better world when you have the  likes of China and Russia as founding members, its an obvious political problem if you believe in these BRICS objectives 

China is a strong and important economy and it has an efficient state but you cant compare how the CCP runs China and denies most basic freedoms that are both sacrosanct, respected and established in any Western country and most Constitutional Democracies

Unless of course  these basic societal freedoms dont matter to you and then China is great and can be considered an alternative to Democracy and what Democracy means 

 

 

[rjshae]

17 hours ago, Malcador said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-walmart-prices-tariffs-response/

Well at least he's owned up to who will be paying tariffs.

It's interesting that a guy with six bankruptcies to his name is now telling Walmart how to ru(i)n their business. 

[uuuhhii]

amazing someone could still be buying the western freedom nonsense after the last 2 year

now usa also have the freedom of not knowing the weather and when natural disaster will hit them

the freedom of not receive any disaster relief since fema are shutting down soon

[Malcador]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/18/politics/joe-biden-prostate-cancer

Biden diagnosed with cancer, spread to his bones, apparently.  His family sure has gone through a wringer.

Wonder how long before Trump comes up with some jokes about this.

[BruceVC]

9 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

amazing someone could still be buying the western freedom nonsense after the last 2 year

now usa also have the freedom of not knowing the weather and when natural disaster will hit them

the freedom of not receive any disaster relief since fema are shutting down soon

Do you think China and Russia are examples of freedom?

Whats your examples  of freedom if you dont consider Western countries examples of this as Constitutional Democracies?

Edited Monday at 05:12 AM by BruceVC

[Malcador]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/05/19/ashli-babbitt-lawsuit-settlement

Now this is ridiculous.

[uuuhhii]

uk france and canada claim they will place sanction on idf

most empty threat come from the nation set up this whole mess to begin with

guess germany are still too busy supporting the latest atrocity to join in

[Gromnir]

am legit conflicted 'bout the shocking ignorance o' those trump has put in power. on the one hand, if these jokers were more knowledgeable and capable, they would be better able to carry out their agenda o' destruction. on the other hand, a clown with a flamethrower is only marginal less dangerous than would be a more serious engine of chaos.

as to china... am gonna note that we also heard from some o' the same board experts in january and february of 2022 that it were journalists and politicians in the west who were "banging the drums of war." all the concern 'bout putin predations were overblown, right? 

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Malcador]

Not even 6 months into this crap.

[Hurlshort]

My 7th graders know what habeas corpus is. It is a foundational part of my curriculum. We run through scenarios regularly in almost every unit that relate to the precedent.

[rjshae]

New policy limits new COVID-19 vaccines to just older adults and at-risk kids, thereby stopping the virus in it tracks. 

New Trump vaccine policy limits access to COVID shots

The new health policy seems to be, "just die already, will ya?"

[Gromnir]

maha

am not sure that limiting access to a vaccine which likely saves many thousands every year, as well as implementing significant cuts to medicaid, will make americans healthier... and am dubious that switching from canola to beef tallow is gonna make the difference. 

well, on the positive side, a smoking habit (past or current) is a covid risk factor, so am s'posing you could always take up smoking if you wanna continue to get the covid shot.

rfk jr. is correlation v. causation stoopid, so is likely he would be convinced that an advertising campaign to encourage nationwide smoking would be a maha positive. if everybody took up smoking, life expectancy would drop and all those related conditions which old people suffer would decrease. less chronic disease. win? 

in any event, if you don't care about life insurance and you really want a covid shot this year, you could always take up smoking... and as ignorant as such sounds, it is no more ridiculous than at least half of rfk jr's idiotic plans and conspiracies.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited Tuesday at 06:46 PM by Gromnir

[uuuhhii]

there is no way measle are the only plague they will bring back

what will they do when something truly deadly are resurrected

[Malcador]

Oh good grief, Ramaphosa meeting Trump today.  Probably going to end up some Zelensky like **** show.

[Zoraptor]

Handled rather better by Ramaphosa than by Zelensky.

Given what happened with Zelensky Ramaphosa was likely far better prepared. 

Might have been interesting if Nelson Mandela has still been around. Trump probably would have put him back on the terrorist list and deported him to South Sudan.

[rjshae]

Trump confronts South African leader with baseless claims of the systematic killing of white farmers

Well either Trump-whisperer Musk has him turned, or Trumps cray-cray is leaking. Maybe both.

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Handled rather better by Ramaphosa than by Zelensky.

Given what happened with Zelensky Ramaphosa was likely far better prepared. 

Might have been interesting if Nelson Mandela has still been around. Trump probably would have put him back on the terrorist list and deported him to South Sudan.

Yeah, was worried that Ramaphosa pushing back a bit would provoke things, but Trump seemed to take it in stride.  The video ambush was something else, even had that crosses video Musk et al. have been spamming on Twitter.  

I did like the reporter that asked Ramaphosa if all the white farmers left what would they do. Haven't heard that  many want to go,