The All Things Political Topic - Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence

[Zoraptor]

Ironically, given their prior conduct he'd probably do better at the ICC than ICJ. Just wouldn't be able to turn up in person.

[rjshae]

4 hours ago, Hurlshort said:

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, as long as they are white.

Yeah, it's not a good look. But then it's par for the course, I suppose. DJT lacks any sort of moral compass.

[uuuhhii]

2 minutes ago, rjshae said:

Yeah, it's not a good look. But then it's par for the course, I suppose. DJT lacks any sort of moral compass.

 

usa never had those before

but they are decent at putting on the pretence of civility

turns out politician put on ridiculous amount of posturing and farcical performance since before recorded history for a reason

[BruceVC]

11 hours ago, Malcador said:

 

 

Its always cringe when Trump makes these types of comments around any geopolitical event that is  factually incorrect or exaggerated

 Im sure I know why he has been convinced by someone in his administration that there is genocide of white farmers 

But firstly thousands of Afghans have settled in the US and that includes people of colour from many countries, I dont think its necessary to suggest the US only  allows white people a path to citizenship. Thats an egregious exaggeration if you look at overall migration ethnicity to the US 

Going  back to South Africa, Trump believes in the global narrative that there are examples where white people are being targeted or discriminated against in certain ways in certain countries ad that includes the US. There is some truth to this but it also gets exaggerated, for example I dont believe that migration to the US is about replacement theory but I do believe that there are attempts to undermine  history to generalize about history in a negative way and this is normally the parts of  history where white people have contributed. We have discussed this many times, for example Colonialism is seen by many activists as only an era of oppression and injustice when in fact the 400 years of Colonialism also saw some of the greatest freedoms and advancements of mankind recognised and established

So opinions on Colonialism is just one example of this 

With South Africa Trump sees himself as defending this " obvious injustice " because " white farmers are being genocided " 

But whats the truth? There are farm killings and they are a  specific type of murder and they terrible where whole families get killed but its not genocide by the correct definition of what genocide is. But white farmers do get killed but its part of  our high murder rate 

And then years ago groups like Afriforum, out of frustration from the ostensible failure of government to end these farm killings, decided to start using the word genocide to describe these killings and one of there members even published a book about this which is mainly about the killing of Afrikaans farmers in general, it was called "Kill the Boer ".

https://exclusivebooks.co.za/products/9780994715975

And then what makes things worse is you have political parties like the EFF openly singing Apartheid era struggle songs like " Kill the farmer, Kill the Boer " 

Imagine if you already believe white farmers are being intentionally murdered by the state and you see a real video like the one below with the EFF openly celebrating this. Most people and especially someone living in the US wouldnt know the difference between the ANC or the EFF and they just see a violent message of black people wanting to kill white farmers. And the EFF does this on purpose just to create racial tension and anxiety against white Afrikaners. The EFF is our official " socialist "  racist and anti-white party  and they the only ones who sing this song and only at rallies like this but they  still sing it. You would assume they would  demonstrate common-sense and sensitivity considering how white Afrikaners feel about farm killings but as I said they do it on purpose to get attention 

 

 

 

Anyway so Trump has jumped on this train

As usual there is some reality and then exaggeration. Yes farm killings are real but its not genocide 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13 by BruceVC

[Gromnir]

wsj editorial board is not pulling punches

paywall, so am including just a couple highlights for those who cannot access.

The Great Trump Tariff Rollback

As with last week’s modest British agreement, the China deal is more surrender than Trump victory. Apart from the tariff rollback, neither side announced any broader concessions on the substantive trade issues that weigh on the U.S.-China relationship. Those include China’s barriers to American firms, especially in services such as digital and financial, and its chronic intellectual-property theft.

...

So after weeks of market turmoil, the economy is left with higher trade costs and greater uncertainty for business, but at least a step back from Smoot-Hawley 2.0. Investors, businesses and households probably would welcome this outcome, which is considerably better than Mr. Trump’s initial plan.

...

If there’s a silver lining to this turmoil, it is that markets have forced Mr. Trump to back down from his fever dream that high tariff walls will usher in a new “golden age.” The age didn’t last two months, and it was more leaden than golden. White House aide Peter Navarro, the main architect with Mr. Trump of the Liberation Day fiasco, has been repudiated.

...

only marginally less critical than our clown with a flame thrower bit. 

HA! Good Fun!

[majestic]

Not sure Trump and Peter Navarro deserve all the credit here, this was Stephen Miran's idea, incompetently implemented. The two certainly deserve all the credit for botching it, but it was someone else's dream of changing the entire world's financial and trading system by targeted tarrifs and subtle policy changes in four years. That, and the insane idea that Trump understands the words subtle and targeted.

[Malcador]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Its always cringe when Trump makes these types of comments around any geopolitical event that is  factually incorrect or exaggerated

 Im sure I know why he has been convinced by someone in his administration that there is genocide of white farmers 

But firstly thousands of Afghans have settled in the US and that includes people of colour from many countries, I dont think its necessary to suggest the US only  allows white people a path to citizenship. Thats an egregious exaggeration if you look at overall migration ethnicity to the US 

Going  back to South Africa, Trump believes in the global narrative that there are examples where white people are being targeted or discriminated against in certain ways in certain countries ad that includes the US. There is some truth to this but it also gets exaggerated, for example I dont believe that migration to the US is about replacement theory but I do believe that there are attempts to undermine  history to generalize about history in a negative way and this is normally the parts of  history where white people have contributed. We have discussed this many times, for example Colonialism is seen by many activists as only an era of oppression and injustice when in fact the 400 years of Colonialism also saw some of the greatest freedoms and advancements of mankind recognised and established

So opinions on Colonialism is just one example of this 

With South Africa Trump sees himself as defending this " obvious injustice " because " white farmers are being genocided " 

But whats the truth? There are farm killings and they are a  specific type of murder and they terrible where whole families get killed but its not genocide by the correct definition of what genocide is. But white farmers do get killed but its part of  our high murder rate 

And then years ago groups like Afriforum, out of frustration from the ostensible failure of government to end these farm killings, decided to start using the word genocide to describe these killings and one of there members even published a book about this which is mainly about the killing of Afrikaans farmers in general, it was called "Kill the Boer ".

https://exclusivebooks.co.za/products/9780994715975

And then what makes things worse is you have political parties like the EFF openly singing Apartheid era struggle songs like " Kill the farmer, Kill the Boer " 

Imagine if you already believe white farmers are being intentionally murdered by the state and you see a real video like the one below with the EFF openly celebrating this. Most people and especially someone living in the US wouldnt know the difference between the ANC or the EFF and they just see a violent message of black people wanting to kill white farmers. And the EFF does this on purpose just to create racial tension and anxiety against white Afrikaners. The EFF is our official " socialist "  racist and anti-white party  and they the only ones who sing this song and only at rallies like this but they  still sing it. You would assume they would  demonstrate common-sense and sensitivity considering how white Afrikaners feel about farm killings but as I said they do it on purpose to get attention 

 

 

 

Anyway so Trump has jumped on this train

As usual there is some reality and then exaggeration. Yes farm killings are real but its not genocide 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, seeing people inflate the EFF to be the RSA government.  Just more red meat for the Rhodieboos in the US, really.

[rjshae]

14 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

usa never had those before

but they are decent at putting on the pretence of civility

turns out politician put on ridiculous amount of posturing and farcical performance since before recorded history for a reason

Meh, it's a matter of degree I suppose. This criticism can be applied to most governments. DJT is just unusual in comparison to most of his predecessors.

[Gromnir]

22 hours ago, Hurlshort said:

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, as long as they are white.

curiously, our refugee and asylum laws is relative new 

The U.S. Government Turned Away Thousands of Jewish Refugees, Fearing That They Were Nazi Spies

World War II prompted the largest displacement of human beings the world has ever seen—although today's refugee crisis is starting to approach its unprecedented scale. But even with millions of European Jews displaced from their homes, the United States had a poor track record offering asylum. Most notoriously, in June 1939, the German ocean liner St. Louis and its 937 passengers, almost all Jewish, were turned away from the port of Miami, forcing the ship to return to Europe; more than a quarter died in the Holocaust.

and

the nativist US policies o' the late 19th and early 20th century were codified by coolidge in 24 with the passage of the johnson-reed immigration act, but as terrible as were US laws and rules, there were a reason so many displaced, poor and hopeless peoples were escaping the tender mercies o' europe and asia as they endured improbable hardships to reach the US. one o' the few countries willing to accept jewish refugees following ww2 were russia/the soviet union, and the fact those jewish refugees were willing to stay in functional concentration camps as 'posed to returning to russia speaks volumes, no?

again, eisenhower in 45...

"As matters now stand, we appear to be treating the Jews as the Nazis treated them except that we do not exterminate them. They are in concentration camps in large numbers under our military guard instead of S.S. troops. One is led to wonder whether the German people, seeing this, are not supposing that we are following or at least condoning Nazi policy."

regardless, our firstest ever asylum laws only finally got passed in 1951 and those laws were inspired by the collective shame and guilt stemming from the treatment o' jews before, during and even after ww2. 

the waves o' cambodian and vietnamese boat people, as well as cuban influxes o' immigrants caused crises in the US which tested practical limits o' the nation to absorb so many people. even so, most americans still felt pride when looking at the statue o' liberty and the poem portion you quote and most were committed to finding a way to achieve aspirational goals. 

the situation today is a bit different. the afrikaner performative nonsense is illustrative o' the intentional cruelty and racism o' the new administration. when the trump administration functional and illegal shut down asylum and refugee programs, more than 10000 afghan refugees had already gone through the years long vetting process. 

"I want to add some clarity to that number. About 2,000 was the number that we expected to travel over three months, what we thought the pause was going to be, but it's indefinite. So, people are being pulled off flights now. Flights are being canceled, but the truth is there are more than 10,000 Afghans who are fully vetted, security vetted, medically cleared, and ready to go.

"And now they don't know what's coming next. We have asked the State Department to give very clear guidance to them, that we hope they're going to do that. They haven't affirmatively confirmed that yet."

and yet somehow, the afrikaner "refugees," were vetted (a process which usual takes more than a year,) and brought to the US.

other than bruce, am suspecting everybody is able to see what is happening with the afrikaner refugee program. the trump campaigns were bout grievance and outrage as 'posed to offering real solutions (all we ever got were concepts of a plan for health care and every couple weeks were infrastructure week during trump 1.0,) but it didn't matter what were real as long as trump validated grievance and outrage o' his base. for too long, the libs has ignored the suffering o' working class whites, right? finally we got a President who is able to speak the truth that as a nation we went so far left that it is whites who is now the primary victims o' racial injustice. fox viewers saw that blm set the country on fire and the libs just watched everything burn. and why are we spending so much money on inner city school lunch programs which disproportionate help minorities while white folks in the burbs is having a hard time sending their second kid to college? 

the white genocide in south africa doesn't need be real. the fact that many thousands o' afghans were turned away from the US, more than a few of whom is facing real and lethal consequences in the country o' their birth to make room for fast tracked white farmers from south afrika, is the point o' this bit o' theatre. perhaps the administration needed to distract from the gift 747 that even laura loomer criticizes and maybe the thirty dolls comment were too much for the working class base who is already having trouble making ends meet. or maybe this is just the cruel and racist policies o' the administration which the base now embraces openly 'cause shame is so 2015. 

trump knows he don't need to do anything constructive just as long as he validates the outrage and grievance o' his base... 'cause it is 'bout time somebody were looking out for the white victims o' racism, yes? 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited May 13 by Gromnir

[uuuhhii]

usa seem to attempt to lower price of medicine

but increase it for other nation

this will surely end up more confusing and useless than one could expect

[BruceVC]

https://www.reuters.com/world/trump-says-will-remove-us-sanctions-syria-2025-05-13/

 

A good decision from Trump, he will be lifting US sanctions on Syria after being asked by Saudi Arabia 

This is  an  important step in rebuilding the broken Syrian economy and getting the much needed investment 

 

[Gromnir]

hadn't specific thought o' it that way, but yeah.

edit: and since we were sharing bloomberg...

The dramatic reduction in tariffs exceeded expectations in China and sent the dollar and stocks soaring—providing some much-needed market relief for the US president, who is facing pressure as inflation looks set to speed up at home. China equities also surged as the deal—though only a 90-day delay—ended up meeting nearly all of the Chinese president’s core demands. The “reciprocal” tariff for China, which Trump set at 34%, has been suspended—leaving America’s top rival with the same 10% rate that applies to US allies like the UK.

“This is arguably the best outcome that China could have hoped for—the US backed down,” said Trey McArver, co-founder of research firm Trivium China. “Going forward, this will make the Chinese side confident that they have leverage over the US in any negotiations.”

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 13 by Gromnir

[rjshae]

It should be interesting to see how Congress tries to counter the Presidential power to underspend the budget. I could see them adding incentive clauses; if, say, 90% of the budget isn't spent within an alloted period, then the President's favorite budget items get defunded.

[uuuhhii]

let not pretend excutive are the only branch want to give 5 trillion tax cut to the rich and 1 trillion per year to military

 

[Gromnir]

the government is seeking emergency relief, so we could get a shadow docket decision almost immediate... or the Court could sit on this until as far out as july. 

just a reminder, birthright citizenship ain't the relevant issue. what is in question is the scope o' the injunctive relief afforded a single district court judge and based on an admitted shallow reading of tea leaves, it seems increasing likely that we are witnessing the end of nationwide tros from district judges, which is a big f'ing deal.

so, a shadow docket decision where we only get an order from the Court and maybe an abbreviated dissenting opinion as explanations, will be the most significant Court action in a couple years. 

edit: we first brought this tro issue up on this board last friday, but am suspecting most people won't realize the significance until the trump administration starts using the anticipated new reality to deport thousands even while they is losing individual case after case after case.

however, not all the scotus news from today is bad. 

The court ruled that the totality of the circumstances and not just the "moment of threat doctrine" must be used to assess whether the use of police force was "objectively reasonable."

practical result o' this is that it becomes far easier to sue cops for excessive force. yeah, cops still get qualified immunity, but this is a win for those who is looking to bring civil rights claims against cops.

...

truth is there is way too much law news from today, and is kinda a mixed bag o' good news and bad news. we may try and summarize the cases we personal feel is important, but am facing a deluge. trump is doing so much through novel executive orders that the legal challenges is taxing our ability to keep pace.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 15 by Gromnir

[BruceVC]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/5/15/south-africas-ramaphosa-to-meet-trump-in-us-next-week-amid-rising-tensions

" President Ramaphosa will meet with President Donald Trump at the White House in Washington, DC to discuss bilateral, regional and global issues of interest,” South Africa’s presidency said in a statement on Wednesday.

“The president’s visit to the US provides a platform to reset the strategic relationship between the two countries,” it added, saying the trip will take place from Monday to Thursday and the two leaders will meet on Wednesday. "

This is obviously getting lots of attention in our media with the predicted mixed opinions around how our president should conduct himself when he meets Trump

I hear some  completely unrealistic rhetoric that " we should stand our ground and not allow ourselves to be bullied " and Im not sure what that even means

But I predict the interview will be much better than the Zelensky visit to the WH because our president is well versed in English and understands etiquette and how to be diplomatic when engaging with any world leader and I assume  specifically he will be prepped on how to engage with Trump 

I cant imagine him arguing or any kind of shouting match  with Trump and  the press interview collapsing, he has too much decorum to allow that to happen 

He will  focus on the issues that we have in common and look at new  reciprocal trade deals 

 

 

Edited May 16 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

https://www.axios.com/2025/05/15/trump-israel-syria-policy-reverse-biden

Trumps overall successes and failures  should be separated into domestic and foreign policy outcomes

Its understandable  to unintentionally only focus on the questionable or bad US domestic decisions he has made but this link is a good summary of the things he has done or doing outside of the US and several of these are commendable and constructive. The point Im really making is how Trumps presidency is  a mixed bag, personally Im more interested in his foreign policy decisions because Im not a US citizen. Part of his confidence around all these policies  as mentioned in the link is because Trump has the full support of the GOP in Congress and being a majority in both houses  would embolden any US president because of the limited Congressional backlash you would receive 

" President Trump's recent series of audacious foreign policy moves have astounded even some of his harshest critics.

The big picture: Just in the Middle East and just in the past week, Trump has met with a leader the U.S. officially considers a terrorist, announced he'll lift all sanctions on Syria, and cut a truce with the Houthis plus a hostage deal with Hamas, both of which excluded Israel.

What they're saying: Biden administration veterans who spoke with Axios raised questions about Trump's motivations but grudgingly saluted his boldness.

• "Gosh, I wish I could work for an administration that could move that quickly," one admitted.
• "He does all this, and it's kind of silence, it's met with a shrug," says Ned Price, a former senior State Department official under President Biden. "He has the ability to do things politically that previous presidents did not, because he has complete unquestioned authority over the Republican caucus."
• "It's hard not to be simultaneously terrified at the thought of the damage he can cause with such power, and awed by his willingness to brazenly shatter so many harmful taboos," says Rob Malley, who held senior posts in three Democratic administrations, including handling Iran talks under Presidents Obama and Biden.

Zoom out: On issue after issue, Trump is taking steps no recent president would have even considered.

• He abandoned the unified Western position to back Ukraine "as long as it takes" by negotiating directly with Vladimir Putin and declaring that Kyiv will never get Crimea back and must cut a deal now.
• He inserted himself directly in the recent Kashmir crisis, something past administrations have avoided so as not to antagonize India.
• He endorsed direct talks with Iran and shrugged off hawks at home and abroad who tied the Obama and Biden administrations in knots. It helps that many of them, like Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu, are loath to cross Trump.

Zoom in: On Syria, Trump's own State Department had espoused a policy similar to the Biden administration's before it — sanctions relief might be possible if militant-turned-statesman Ahmed al-Sharaa's government met a number of criteria, such as suppressing extremist groups.

• That meant that, somewhat perversely, the new administration was being strangled by sanctions imposed on the dictator they toppled. But it was also just the way these things work, until Trump decided it wasn't.
• "It's so clearly the right decision," said Ben Rhodes, a national security aide to President Obama, on the "Pod Save the World" podcast. "I don't know why Joe Biden didn't do this."
• "I don't like Trump's motivations for lots of things he does," Rhodes continued, "but one thing you will say is he's not tied to this constant fear of some bad faith right-wing attacks or stupid Blob-type, 'we don't do this, we must leverage the sanctions for blah blah blah.' No! Sometimes you just have to try something different."

Perhaps most shocking to veterans of previous administrations, Trump authorized direct talks with Hamas last month that Israeli officials only learned about through espionage (or by reading Axios).

Driving the news: This week, Trump's envoy-for-everything Steve Witkoff used backchannel talks to negotiate the release of Israeli-American hostage Edan Alexander, undercutting Israel's own negotiating tactics.

• "I suspect Witkoff doesn't have to look over his shoulder as much as others have. His predecessors have had to make sure the secretary of defense is on board and the secretary of the Treasury is on board, and the head of the CIA is on board. He just does it," the former Biden official said.

Flashback: The Biden administration considered but ultimately rejected opening direct talks with Hamas.

• "This is not about President Biden, this is about President Trump and the advantage that he has with Bibi [Netanyahu]," Price said. "If the Biden administration had done something like this, Bibi would have gone out guns blazing."
• Now, even with the daylight between him and Trump growing more glaring, Netanyahu is keeping uncharacteristically quiet.

The flipside: Trump has also not pushed back hard as Netanyahu cut off all aid to Gaza, refused to budge in ceasefire negotiations, and announced a military operation to flatten and occupy the enclave.

• Price argues that's the more nefarious side of Trump's a-la-carte "America First" approach.
• "Unfortunately, we have a real-life experiment going on right now where we see exactly what happens when an administration abdicates that concerted pressure on the Israelis."

Between the lines: All the former Democratic officials who spoke to Axios questioned Trump's motives, even for policies they personally agreed with, noting that he's not just breaching norms to make peace, but also to sell cryptocurrency, expand his real estate portfolio or obtain a $400 million jet.

• The Syria announcement notably came at the urging of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, two leaders fluent in Trump-style transactionalism.

[HoonDing]

Make Arabia Great Again!

[Malcador]

https://www.wsj.com/finance/currencies/small-china-linked-firm-plans-to-snap-up-trumps-crypto-token-f213d2b5

Corruption is getting less elegant these days

[Azdeus]

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/ghost-machine-rogue-communication-devices-found-chinese-inverters-2025-05-14/

Great, now the right wing nutters are going to get even more fuel for the fire to rail against green energy.

[uuuhhii]

red scare propaganda never stop

the idiocy of usa are still the focus of the world

now everyone know how to bribe usa maybe the damage can be mitigated to some degree

[Gromnir]

Supreme Court extends pause on deportations under Alien Enemies Act in Texas

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a1007_g2bh.pdf

The Supreme Court said the government didn't give people at a detention center in Texas enough time to argue against their deportations.

It overruled an order from the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, which had said it didn't have jurisdiction over the case and said the Venezuelans had appealed too quickly after a lower court ruled against them. But the Supreme Court disagreed.

"Here the District Court's inaction—not for 42 minutes but for 14 hours and 28 minutes—had the practical effect of refusing an injunction to detainees facing an imminent threat of severe, irreparable harm," the court wrote in an unsigned opinion. "Accordingly, we vacate the judgment of the Court of Appeals."

...

Justice Samuel Alito issued a dissenting opinion in the case, with which Justice Clarence Thomas joined, arguing that the Supreme Court was getting involved in the case too early and has no authority to issue relief.

...

unless you follow these cases you might not notice, but not only did the majority take the government to task over their flouting o' due process, but they directly addressed alito's credulous dissent from april 18 where he expressed disbelief at the temerity o' plaintiff's request for emergency response from the Court.

"The dissent disputes both the Court’s jurisdiction and the availability of class wide relief. We do not find its reasoning persuasive.

"First, we reject the dissent’s characterization of the events that transpired on April 18, which lead it to question our jurisdiction."

am knowing the 'bove quoted portion hardly look like a brutal takedown, but to overt reject a fellow Justice's characterization of facts and to imply spin is not normal. 

is a whole lot going on here, particular with the kavanaugh concurrence, but the sooper distilled cliff's notes version is that the government shouldn't be able to use the alien enemies act to deport s'posed gang members for the foreseeable future... unless trump suspends habeas corpus, but am not anticipating a suspension o' habeas corpus until the Court decides on the nationwide tro issue we mentioned yesterday. also, and just as important, all o' those deported pursuant to the application of the aea is gonna be considered members o' the same class, which is a big deal... for now. a win for one can be a win for everybody in the class. at least for now there will be no need to litigate the same issue a couple hundred times. 

however, this ain't a ruling on whether the use o' the alien enemies act to deport tren de aragua members is appropriate.

that said, this is good news. is pretty freaking scary you got two Justices blowing off due process protections for anybody accused by the trump administration o' being part o' a predatory incursion, but the upside is you got seven Justices who are rejecting the government proposition that 2+2=5. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps a noteworthy detail which we shoulda highlighted. 

a few days past we observed that, "of course the Court could eventual order trump to try and get those people back, but what nobody wants to admit is that is the extent o' their power. if trump says he tried his darndest to return all those people back to the US, but that el salvadaor, libya and rwanda refused to comply, what then?"

today the Court final admitted it may not be able to do anything constructive to force the government to return those already "deported" back to the US. is a detail am suspecting is glossed over by most media, but it shouldn't be. however, it is also worth noting that seven Justices observed that the fact the government couldn't be compelled to return to the US those condemned to cecot w/o due process meant that it were imperative that every effort should be taken to prevent such happening in the future.

again, am wanting to stress that the previous unstated truth that people already in el salvador is likely f#$%ed was recognized by the Court. every american should be outraged by that recognition. however, the Court used their impotence as a reason for blocking the government's efforts to send more people to el salvador, rwanda or libya.  

so it goes.

Edited May 17 by Gromnir

[rjshae]

There's lots of faux outrage today over Comey's posting of an image of 8647. I'd always taken to '86' something means to reject it, but in some corners of the internet that's apparently being taken as a death threat. Huh. 

[Azdeus]

12 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

red scare propaganda never stop

the idiocy of usa are still the focus of the world

now everyone know how to bribe usa maybe the damage can be mitigated to some degree

The CCP are not our friends though. They very much are enemies to the west, and a threat to us

[uuuhhii]

4 minutes ago, Azdeus said:

The CCP are not our friends though. They very much are enemies to the west, and a threat to us

 

and this is the result of propaganda

since the end of ww2 france are the most vicious of the big 5 while having the best reputation

the west is the threat