How make Barbarian better at single target?

[yorname]

Thinking about finally starting a barbarian run, my first choice is a SC Furyshaper, to use blood ward + old siec + barbarian retaliation. While barbarian has a million tools to deal with mobs, I don't want him to become basically a worse tank when facing a boss. How much does barbarian retaliation help with single target damage? Is it restricted to strictly melee weapon attacks, or broader like monk's Soul Mirror?

Since I'm taking Dazing Shout eventually, I'd pick Blood Storm over Spirit Tornado as BPM buffed it to +3s per crit. All things combined SC Furyshaper gets speed, a DoT, a quite long Dazed and retaliation for single target. Doesn't look too good even if enemy crit him every hit to be honest.

What are good MC choices for barbarian by the way? They only provide speed, stagger on hit and some survivability to a caster so I guess it's not a great trade. For martial characters, maybe a mass interrupt build or berserker/streetfighter? (tricky to get the passives in BPM otherwise).

[Ivanfyodorovich]

SC Barb is very strong in BPM. Fury Shaper is great, but Corpse Eater will put out even more damage. The food that gives +4 Barbarian Power Level is adding quite a bit of damage to Leap upgrades, Heart of Fury, and Dazing Shout. 

BPM adds rage gain via Vengeful Defeat and Potion of Enlightenment, which helps offset the added ability cost. Bloodstorm also helps conserve rage with enough perception/crit chance. 

On a boss with no adds, you will deal a little less damage (no bloodlust, fewer retaliation hits, etc), but Frenzy with 2 decent weapons should shred. 

Another option, since you’re SC is to use Monastic Unarmed Strike and look for consistent +PL. @thelee has a great build showcasing some ways to stack it in his guide. It’s easy to keep a few swords around for pen issues, and the sword modal only gives even more retaliation procs. 

[Boeroer]

You can pick human as race and Monk as second class, pick a Morning Star (preferably Saru Sichr) and primarily use its modal Body Blows in combination with Efficient Anguish, Enervating Blows and Spirit Frenzy as well as Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming.

The advantages are that the enemies' fortitude gets lowered by up to 45 points on the fly which usually means a virtual accuracy increase.  There are few enemies that have 45 points of fort. over deflection. And those who have usually have crappy deflection in the first place (then use Stunning Surge or Barbaric Smash). Being able to pick between two defenses for your melee attacks (even without Brute Force) is very advantageous imo.

Then Efficient Anguish (besides it being a PL1-ability that is cheap and scales very well) has a nice synergy with Carnage: it pushes the enemy into the Carnage AoE before it gets rolled. This means the initial target not only gets knocked down and pushed but also suffers the normal weapon damage PLUS the Carnage raw damage. 

Saru Sichr has a second weapon attack roll attached (vs. fortitude) which can trigger Swift Flurry/HBD as well as Enervating Blows and Stunning Surge refunds. It is substantially easier to trigger Swift Flurry chains with Sari Sichr than with weapons that only hit once. Also because both single attack rolls will proc two rolls again. 

In addition to that the DoT of Saru Sichr does stack with itself which is very strong against singular foes. It is poison however - so against some enemies it doesn't do damage (but still procs crits iirc). 

Thunderous Blows does also help if you aren't a Berserker. 

Hylea's Talons will help to gain woundsas well as add damage. Their DoT gets triggered by both attack rolls of Saru Sichr.

All this makes the Barbarian/Monk excellent against singular foes. Against bosses with stellar defenses one might want to pick Instruments of Pain and Enduring Dance of Death in order to gain and keep a decent accuracy bonus on top. 

Barbarian/Monk with Morning Star is one of my favorite multiclasses. I personally like the razor's edge that is playing a Berserker/Helwalker, but it works well with any subclass combo.

Another way to make a great single target Barb, especially against single casters, is to pick Ranger and pile up accuracy bonuses and crit chance (Marked Prey, Stalker's Link, Survival of the Fittest, Bloody Slaughter and so on) and use Wounding Shot with dual battle axes plus Bleeding Cuts + Barbaric Smash as finisher. Barbaric Smash does tremendous damage once it crits - especialy in combination with Bloody Slaughter. 

With Evasive Roll the Barb/Ranger is super mobile even before getting Leap and can reach enemies very quickly. In this case the ability "Master's Call" isn't bad if you are a Stalker because it ends Bonded Grief very quickly and also is a useful CC tool. Of course Bleeding Cuts unlock Predator's Sense which also help with single target damage. Your AC is a part of your character after all...

I found that Barb/Rogue, while doing great weapon dmg on paper, is usually not as effective as those two options.

I can see a Barb/Paladin doing well against single targets, too. Using Eternal Flame + Ring of focused Flames as the main source of weapon damage and finishing with Barbaric Smash while using Brand Enemy, Blood Storm and Bleeding Cuts (or other weapon DoTs) to bring down tough nuts. 

SC Barb and especially SC Furyshaper is great against mobs but imo lacks the tools that would make him good against single (tough) targets. 

Edited February 9 by Boeroer

[Chaospread]

I don't know how much it can be useful but I'm playing a run with a Corpse eater/Priest of Berath PotD solo as a Death Godlike (vanilla - no mods).

I pick only blood frenzy as active barbarian ability and most of passive (blooded, accurate carnage, thick skinned, blood lust, one stand alone, interrupting blows and brute force ) and for priest the most important spells to fight solo: withdraw, divine mark, devotion for the faithful, barring death's door, and shields for the faithful, with touch of rot, holy meditation, spreading plague and salvation of time "free" as Berath spells. As passive for priest i pick all weapon style but one weapon, bull's will, spirit of decay (for touch of rot, my favourite spell, but useful more with groups than one enemy), arms bearer, rapid casting and improved critical. I'm thinking to respec taking barbaric smash in place of maybe interrupting blows and thick skinned. Unfortunately I tooke blessing as first level spells, now I'd take another first level spells (supress affliction). Early time in game I had spiritual ally and minor avatar, I can choose this last one in place of shields for the faithful but it is not so important. And i have also spirtual weapon, then I respeced.
In any case, I usually start with gladiator sword and one enchanted large shield, then blood frenzy, holy meditation, switch weapon cast devotion for the faithful then auto attack and/or touch of rot: this is enough form most of encounters and strong enemy. In case of danger I recast some spell that were over and than barring death door (preferably on low health, for barbarian and death godlike more damage and power level), 2 salvation of time and enjoi. At last time, I cast withdrawn cause I heal myself where foes continue to suffer DOT damage from priest spells, barbarian abilities and my weapon.
Gear is important, I maxed intimidate and wear Casità Samelia's Legacy and Whispers of Endless Path with "riposte" enchantment, very good combo; at top of that Whispers has also Run through, excellent versus only one enemy.

For particularly encounter I change equipment, armor and weapons: three weapons slots are good for sword and shield, great sword and maybe a bow for distant enemies (when I can't reach them) or other situational weapon. I took most of all profiency with 2 arms weapons.

With this PG I managed to kill magma dragon, concelhaut, sea dragon, nemnok and flooded cave (only situation where I had to pull enemies). Sometimes I equipped Effigy's Husk with percepction affliction immunity, modwyr for INT affliction immunity and ate shark soup for MIG, CON, DEX affliction immunity with Eviee as pet for RES resistance (more easy with this configuration).
Vanilla corpse eater are not so good, but I like this subclass with death godlike and berath priest, well suited RPG form my taste
Else I'd pick berserker and magran priest with fire spell, maybe more powerful, but with mod, as others said, corpse eater could be strong the same

[thelee]

8 hours ago, yorname said:

What are good MC choices for barbarian by the way? They only provide speed, stagger on hit and some survivability to a caster so I guess it's not a great trade.

they also provide a might boost and various damage or recovery boosts. useful for an offensive caster. 

(though honestly dazing shout/driving roar are so good at dps that SC barbarian eventually functions as an extremely effective offensive "caster")

[thelee]

to OP's topic, i don't play barbs that much, but i don't think there's a way to avoid barbarian being worse at single target. they're just not designed for it. at best you can be close to neutral. both the tier 9 roars, for example, are extremely good in big fights, but still pretty useful in a boss fight even if a bit less efficient.

Edited February 9 by thelee

[NotDumbEnough]

If you can get the enemy to attack the barbarian, the battleaxe modal combined with retaliation on crit can deal pretty decent single target damage. The retaliation attack bypasses the downside of the recovery time penalty from the battleaxe modal. Obviously this incentivizes high intellect and low resolve so that the bleed lasts longer and you get crit more often.

[Elric Galad]

Also remember that Barbaric Retaliation has an intresic +16 accuracy and +4 Penetration compared to normal attack (nothing exceptional, most similar abilities have similar bonuses, albeit lower cause they are from lower tier). 

It might be useful if building upon axes, because they deal only splash damages which can be limited vs some bosses. 

[yorname]

10 hours ago, Boeroer said:

 

I have some doubts about the morningstar - Brute Force approach:

staggered gets resisted a lot late game, getting dazed or stunned for an extended time is much more unreliable without a SC barbarian. Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment + Flanked + Pike modal = -30 DEF, imo is comparable to morningstar modal + 2 afflictions + Hunter of Hunters on typical tough enemies, so Brute Force offers little most of the time. Saru Sichr also can't crit with additional rolls in BPM, all things combined it's probably not worth it to use a 2H weapon with naturally lower base damage and -damage modal.

[Constentin Lévine]

18 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Then Efficient Anguish (besides it being a PL1-ability that is cheap and scales very well) has a nice synergy with Carnage: it pushes the enemy into the Carnage AoE before it gets rolled. This means the initial target not only gets knocked down and pushed but also suffers the normal weapon damage PLUS the Carnage raw damage. 

I agree, i had some fun with a barbarian-wizard (Warding Staff) for this reason. Carnage deal damage in function of PL, at high level that can be a significant damage boost (I speak for the Boeroer synergy since Efficient Anguish profit also from PL boost).

Mage slayer is really underated (the malus is strong) but vs 1 or more target, his bonus is one of the most stronger you can have. At range with Frostseeker, against mob with Effort, against boss with Morning Star, Mage Slayer are gamechanger. 

[Boeroer]

15 hours ago, yorname said:

I have some doubts about the morningstar - Brute Force approach:

staggered gets resisted a lot late game, getting dazed or stunned for an extended time is much more unreliable without a SC barbarian. Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment + Flanked + Pike modal = -30 DEF, imo is comparable to morningstar modal + 2 afflictions + Hunter of Hunters on typical tough enemies, so Brute Force offers little most of the time. Saru Sichr also can't crit with additional rolls in BPM, all things combined it's probably not worth it to use a 2H weapon with naturally lower base damage and -damage modal.

But I wasn't talking about Brute Force. As I explicitly wrote the combo Barb/Monk with Efficient Anguish lets you deliberately target Fortitude or Deflection based on what's (potentially) lower even without Brute Force:

On 2/9/2024 at 3:22 PM, Boeroer said:

 Being able to pick between two defenses for your melee attacks (even without Brute Force) is very advantageous imo.

Simply because Efficient Anguish targets Fortitude (and stuff like Stunning Surge or Barbaric Smash do not). 

But that wasn't the main point why this combo is good against single targets. It just adds virtual accuracy in most fights which is good.

Main point: since Efficient Anguish adds Carnage damage to the main target (and that adds viability against single targets) and because its one of the best martial attacks against single targets in the first place (PL1 scaling, CC/interrupt on the fly) you want to use it against single foes. But it targets Fortitude and thus using a Morning Star, Spirit Frenzy and Enervating Blows is the smartest approach for exploiting this additional damage potential against single foes. 

Additional benefits of the Morning Star: in combination with Saru Sichr and Swift Flurry/HbD it also helps to make the DoT of the weapon land crits (because it always targets fortitude). Making it more likely for the DoT to crit greatly increases the chance to trigger crit chains with SF/HBD which significantly improves the performance against (weaker) singular foes (for example casters). 

Yet another advantage is the stacking DoT which is powerful (if not immune). 

I don't use BPM so I don't know what details may work there or not. Wasn't aware that Saru Sichr works differently there. 

 

Edited February 10 by Boeroer

[yorname]

I forgot the PL scaling part, since for most other classes low tier weapon abilities tend to be a waste of resources or function over damage I never thought about their damage potential.

[Boeroer]

Yeah, the PL scaling from 1 is nice (both for ACC and also damage). And I particularly like the CC effect that switches off most single foes immediately - and that it feels so affordable. And the additional Carnage trick is pretty cool, too and sort of free additional (raw) damage.

But I guess the best part is that Efficient Anguish is fueld by wounds - which are potentially an inexhaustible resource. Imo there is no other martial attack ability that gives you so much impact for the (non-scarce) resource you are investing. 

Since I like the combo Berserker/Helwalker so much I have to say that the cost of 1 wound almost feels like nothing - because the wounds keep piling up so damn quickly from the synergy of Frenzy self damage+Wound Trait that I cannot spend them all with Efficient Anguish alone. Being able to spam Efficient Anguish with no pause is maybe a big part of why it feels so powerful against most singular foes to me (even enemies like Neriscyrlas usually go perma-prone with the help of a fellow priest for some more ACC).
BUT this might not be the same for other Barb/Monk combos, so maybe it feels more expensive then and less good - I don't know. But still it's way more affordable than let's say 1 Guile for Crippling Strike, 1 Discipline for Knockdown/Piercing Strike, 1 Zeal for FoD or even 2 Rage for a Barbaric Smash (without refund) or so.

Since I only use Barbaric Smash as finisher (it's total overkill but just too much fun) I seldomly pay anything for it. I find it way too expensive to use it as a regular attack.    

Edited February 10 by Boeroer

[gavinmitchell]

To enhance single-target effectiveness for a Barbarian, consider incorporating Barbarian retaliation alongside Blood Storm and Dazing Shout in a SC Furyshaper build. Retaliation augments damage output against single targets, although its applicability might be limited to melee weapon attacks unlike Monk's Soul Mirror. In terms of multiclass options, choices like Berserker/Streetfighter could potentially bolster damage output further, while mass interrupt builds might also be advantageous, albeit obtaining the necessary passives in BPM could pose a challenge.

[dgray62]

For tough single targets like megabosses I think I would go with a tankier berserker/forbidden fist build. You wouldn't get the automatic wound generation from frenzy raw damage. Rather, the high RES of a FF build would mean you'd get very little self-damage from frenzy. Instead, you could alternate FF attacks (which would proc attacks from Sara Sichr due to swift flurry/heart beat drumming) with Efficient Anguish attacks, and you'd get back your wound when the FF curse expires after a few seconds. You could throw in rooting pain for constant interrupts as a bonus. I think I'm going to try this, as I have yet to play a Ravager with Sara Sichr.

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, dgray62 said:

For tough single targets like megabosses I think I would go with a tankier berserker/forbidden fist build. You wouldn't get the automatic wound generation from frenzy raw damage. Rather, the high RES of a FF build would mean you'd get very little self-damage from frenzy. Instead, you could alternate FF attacks (which would proc attacks from Sara Sichr due to swift flurry/heart beat drumming) with Efficient Anguish attacks, and you'd get back your wound when the FF curse expires after a few seconds. You could throw in rooting pain for constant interrupts as a bonus. I think I'm going to try this, as I have yet to play a Ravager with Sara Sichr.

A Berserker/FF with high RES isn't confused for long (confusion duration and frenzy duration are not tied) and gets +1 wounds once the confusion ends. You can also use Hylea's Talons in order to give yourself the DoT. Again the self damage won't give you wounds - but the duration will be rather short with high RES (and Clarity of Agony) and once it ends you get +1 wound. Both times you also get a little health back. Also Crucible of Suffering will kick in both times. So you'll have two sources of hostile effects in addition to the FF curse. So Berserker/FF isn't that bad wit wound generation as it appears at first glance.  

Rooting Pain will hit yourself while you are confused. The confusion won't last very long with high RES etc. - but it's still incredibly annoying when you interrupt yourself (and party members) with your own Rooting Pain (and won't even get a wound from the damage it causes). You can circumvent that with Enlightened Agony (cancel the confusion with smart right away after casting Frenzy). Or you use Modwyr in the second weapon slot to remove the confusion. Both ways you'll still get the wound and Crucible I believe. If you use Devil of Caroc's Breastplate with resistance you will prevent the confusion from coming over you alltogether - but you won't get a wound and the crucible bonus either.

Hm wait a sec... could it be that the debuff from Engoliero do Espirs (-2/-3 to some stats) is listed as hostile effect and could you generate wounds by switching to and from the weapon? Never tried.        

Edited March 20 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

1 minute ago, Boeroer said:

Rooting Pain will hit yourself while you are confused. 

Ah, you're right. And if you were going with Spirit Frenzy you'd stagger yourself, too. So, if you want to go with rooting pain and spirit frenzy (for even more FORT debuffing) you'd need to mitigate confusion with DoC breastplate, drugs or food. Or you could skip Rooting Pain and go with Blood Frenzy/Blood Storm. I think the latter would be better, for faster wound regeneration and healing as well as the nice raw DoT from Blood Frenzy/Blood Storm. Do you agree, @Boeroer?

[Boeroer]

Or - if you plan to use Clarity of Agony anyways I would try to upgrade to Enlightened Agony and cast that right after Frenzy before Rooting Pain even has a chance to proc. You will not become smart because it cancels the confusion - but you will get +1 wound. And the rest of Clarity will work as usual (helping to reduce the curse duration and the duration of Hylea's Talons should you have picked those). If you go with INT resistance/immunity instead (Devil of Caroc, food etc.) you will not get a wound from frenzy's confusion and not trigger Crucible of Suffering - and that's a bit of synergy not happening... which makes me sad.  

Of course any other source of INT inspiration on the char (like a Priest Pryer for the Mind or so) could also be used. But since a FF might want to pick Clarity of Agony anyways... And Rooting Pain + Blood Storm or Spirit Frenzy is quite convenient to have for sure. 

Edited March 21 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

You're right, investing in Enlighted Agony is a good idea for a berserker ravager. And I suppose that Blood Storm is probably more impactful than Spirit Frenzy in the long run, since I'd definitely want to get Stunning Surge as well.

[cohlin]

On 3/21/2024 at 11:43 PM, dgray62 said:

You're right, investing in Enlighted Agony is a good idea for a berserker ravager. And I suppose that Blood Storm is probably more impactful than Spirit Frenzy in the long run, since I'd definitely want to get Stunning Surge as well.

The blood frenzy line is indeed better, while energized, the crit from dot generated by blood frenzy also interrupts. 

Edited March 28 by cohlin

[Constentin Lévine]

5 hours ago, cohlin said:

The blood frenzy line is indeed better, while energized, the crit from dot generated by blood frenzy also interrupts. 

The bleed DoT from frenzy dont need roll to be applied once a crit is commited : they cant crit. 

[cohlin]

On 3/28/2024 at 6:50 PM, Constentin Lévine said:

The bleed DoT from frenzy dont need roll to be applied once a crit is commited : they cant crit. 

Oh I see, then I must messed up with Druid's Dot while building a berserker/shifter.

[Boeroer]

No DoT (Plague of Insects, Insect Plague, Infestation of Maggots and similar) makes attack rolls after the initial roll. But pulsating spells like Wicked Briars, Venombloom or Tanglefoot do. They reroll attacks every few seconds. Those spells work very well with Energized/interrupts indeed.

For a Berserker/FF Rooting Pain would also work (best if not confused): it interrupts by itself already, but Energized would add another interrupt - which can be nice against enemies with (refreshing) layers of concentration. 

Edited April 1 by Boeroer

[Constentin Lévine]

29 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

But pulsating spells like Wicked Briars, Venombloom or Tanglefoot do.

Venombloom do 3 hit rolls per pulse, it is very good while energized. 

With enought arcana, scrolls of Fan of Flames and Hand of Weal and Woe are pretty useful in this purpose too, 1 possible crit per 1s for everyone in the path is a cray CC for enemies.