Help Grokking PoE2

[jintegrity]

I recently played through PoE2 beginning to end for the first time, and was surprised by how different the game was. - and I'm not talking about multiclassing. I'm talking about how scarce sources of PEN are compared to PoE1, or how it seems gear was designed under a completely different design philosophy. I thought I'd come into PoE2 with a good understanding of the game as I've played PoE1 a lot, but I feel like my PoE1 knowledge only caused me to be unable to evaluate things as I was like, "There's nothing like this in PoE1..."

 

What are some things I can do to better grok this game?

 

- and how can I replicate my playstyle in PoE1: stacking DR, PEN, and overlapping sources of passive healing (Draining, Veteran's Recovery, Ancient Memory, etc.) to have a very consistent party throughout who can outlast most foes, consistently do their damage, and who rarely ever get burst down before I can react, if at all? I also tended to favor Paladin/Chanter/Cipher over Druid/Priest/Wizard because being able to go 100% every fight without having to rest > situationally higher highs for me. I know that the per-rest thing isn't an issue here, but even when I was playing I noticed how often Aloth would run out of slots to do anything where Pallegina could keep on contributing long after.

 

I wanna give this game another chance, despite being rather disappointed in the ending. I just wanna feel like I know what I'm doing, rather than just trying to mimick PoE1 with only limited success.

[Boeroer]

First of all: what is grok/grokking?

Edit: nevermind, googled it.

Some things work exactly that same as in PoE, some don't.

If you want to know what's going on I recommend reading @thelee's GameFAQ for Deadfire. It's in-depth but still brief enough and well-structured with lots of details that you would only grasp after hundreds of hours of playtime otherwise:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599

Imo: the main thing to know about is Armor vs. Penetration. In order to truly understand how important this is, take a look at the part where the math behind underpenetration (and any other dmg malus) is explained.

---

Casters like Wizards, Druids and Priests still have a development curve where in the early game they have very little options per fight - but tend to collect an big pile of impactful  spells/abilities the further the level progression advances. Like in PoE, but less pressure on balance because in general they can't cast 4 very strong spells per tier/rest which would make short work of even the tougher enemies. Instead they can cast 2 (less impactful) spells per tier per encounter. I think that made the encounter design a lot easier.

Classes are more balanced than in PoE and there's a ton of great viable option with whatever class combo.

Building a party like you described is still very much possible. One character that immediately comes to mind when reading your description is "Herald" (Paladin/Chanter). 

The things that are different from PoE and which one should really grasp imo:

- PEN vs. AR (very different comp. to PoE). Both very important stats, maybe the most important besides accuracy and defense.

- bonus and malus calculation (see "double inversion" - bonuses are the same as in PoE - except speed/time, maluses are handled in a multiplicative way most of times)

- Power Level mechanic (low-level stuff scales very well and stays viable)

- Concentration vs. Interrupts (completely different, way more impactful)

- Stacking rules (item bonuses all stack) 

- health and healing (no health/endurance like in PoE)

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Boeroer

[jintegrity]

Thanks Boeroer!

 

This looks like a fantastic read.  Hopefully this'll help me enjoy the game more because, despite preferring one so far, I'm finding that I end up "going through the motions" as it were while playing it as I know what builds I like, where the gear is for them, etc. While I want that level of familiarity here, I do hope the more varied itemization, once I fully understand the items I'm looking at, will lead to more varied setups in repeat playthroughs.

[thelee]

18 hours ago, jintegrity said:

but even when I was playing I noticed how often Aloth would run out of slots to do anything where Pallegina could keep on contributing long after.

it's part of the power curve of casting in deadfire. single-class casters eventually accumulate enough spells (and of immense power) that you don't really concern yourself with running out by mid-end game. you can trade-off and be a caster/caster multiclass if you want (aloth can't), you get tons more spells earlier on with the trade-off that you don't get the super peak experience.

also keep in mind that unlike poe1, in deadfire everyone has the same baseline accuracy and deflection (edit: except fighters, who get +5 deflection to start) and weapon modals. so while a deadfire caster probably can't exert in one fight like a rest-spam caster in poe1 can, when they're out of spells a caster can still put in decent work with just weapons whereas iirc in poe1 a wizard is down like -10 accuracy and deflection compared to a martial, pretty brutal. (in fact if you run through deadfire for the first time on a high difficulty, you might be surprised by how much damage an enemy wizard just auto-attacking can do)

edit: in fact, at low levels the main difference in offensive power between aloth (as wizard) w/out spells and pallegina (as paladin) w/out resources is literally zero, so offense just comes down to stats and how you gear them. eventually paladins get more martial-oriented passives and scale enough better health to really matter.

Edited July 7, 2023 by thelee

[jintegrity]

... that's a crazy revelation. I didn't realize they'd so fundamentally changed the classes like that. It's kinda like the Engagement changes that I didn't realize but explains a lot about my first run. Read the guide. Amazed at how much has changed.

 

Now trying to figure out what I want to do with all the companions now, and my MC. I know I want to be part Devoted (Sword for Modwyr), but unsure if I want to pair it with Soul Blade or Berserker. I considered Skald, but then I'd have issues with gear overlaps with Pallegina. I know I want Herald Pallegina w/ Sasha's Singing Scimitar to eventually do the Fire/Lightning Lash Invocations thing. I'm pretty sure I want pure Priest Xoti, pure Druid Tekehu (wasn't a fan of Theurge), and pure Barbarian Sarafen. It's Maia, Aloth, and Eder I've still yet to figure out. I did Scout, Swashbuckler, and pure Wizard last time. I don't like the concept of the Sidekicks, so I don't use them.

 

Looking back over weapons now that I know some of the system better, I think I wanna try Spearcaster on Maia, Last Word on either Eder or Aloth, depending on who tanks, and probably liberal use of things like Tarn's Respite and the like across the party.

Biggest issue I'm seeing is my desired build at the moment (Devoted + Soul Blade or Berserker) doesn't exactly lend itself to the resilient core I want.

[mjo2138]

In addition to what @thelee  and @Boeroer, especially about reading the Game Faq guide by thelee, you can learn so much. Actually, I've spend a few hours a week reading it still ! In particular, check out the 'Abilities of note" section for each class. 

Some thoughts:

1. Find spells that can provide -PEN to enemies. Chanters have a great spell for this, flank is an automatic -1 AR, and eating incredible foods such as Hot Razor Skewers really helps. You have to also be vigilant about switching weapon types or spell damage types. Use weapon modals to debuff the stat you wanna attack - things like this you are aware of I am sure.

2. A lot of enemies have low AR against shock, and you can find a lot of good shock dmg weapons early game . Those make it easier esp. early/mid game. 

3. Chillfog /combusting wounds/ wall of flame is really strong. Find ways to use low level spells to achieve great damage and debuffs. It is insane how good Blind is . 

4. Find ways to crit to overpen enemies. Might/Dex spells make it easier, and chanters have both.  

 

 

 

[masterty66]

8 hours ago, jintegrity said:

... that's a crazy revelation. I didn't realize they'd so fundamentally changed the classes like that. It's kinda like the Engagement changes that I didn't realize but explains a lot about my first run. Read the guide. Amazed at how much has changed.

 

Now trying to figure out what I want to do with all the companions now, and my MC. I know I want to be part Devoted (Sword for Modwyr), but unsure if I want to pair it with Soul Blade or Berserker. I considered Skald, but then I'd have issues with gear overlaps with Pallegina. I know I want Herald Pallegina w/ Sasha's Singing Scimitar to eventually do the Fire/Lightning Lash Invocations thing. I'm pretty sure I want pure Priest Xoti, pure Druid Tekehu (wasn't a fan of Theurge), and pure Barbarian Sarafen. It's Maia, Aloth, and Eder I've still yet to figure out. I did Scout, Swashbuckler, and pure Wizard last time. I don't like the concept of the Sidekicks, so I don't use them.

 

Looking back over weapons now that I know some of the system better, I think I wanna try Spearcaster on Maia, Last Word on either Eder or Aloth, depending on who tanks, and probably liberal use of things like Tarn's Respite and the like across the party.

Biggest issue I'm seeing is my desired build at the moment (Devoted + Soul Blade or Berserker) doesn't exactly lend itself to the resilient core I want.

A Devoted/Soul Blade should be able to stack extremely high accuracy and solid defenses as well and so should be a fairly resilient character. With Armored Grace you can eventually afford to wear heavy armor as well without suffering much offense. Take the spells Borrowed Instinct & Psycho Vampiric shield and buff yourself with those and you'll have fairly decent defenses and high accuracy too. With Armored Grace you can cruise around in Heavy Armor being quite durable and you'll still attack fast enough.

Devoted + Berserker has the obvious synergy of being able to use Modwyr's upgraded ability (Immunity to Intellect afflictions) to make it so that you don't get confused when you berserk. I don't have a ton of ideas beyond that as I don't often play Barbarians (want to try them at some point) but I thought I'd point that out.

Definitely second the recommendation to read @thelee's gamefaqs guide as well. It's pretty easily digestible and helps break down a lot of the mechanics of Deadfire.

 

[jintegrity]

Thanks for the tips, help, and guidance.