Recommended DLC order for eothas + woedica challenge ?

[Shai Hulud]

14 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

It works like this: Her Revenge sends out three primary bolts of electricity , each of which procs secondary bolts like chain lightning on a small AOE scale. You can affect multiple enemies, but you'll get the multiple procs even when there's only one enemy present. If you empower it while wearing the LUC, each bolt (primary and secondary) will give you a random tier 3 inspiration, potentially giving you all 6 tier 3 inspirations. Moreover, if you are wielding SSS with the refreshing finale upgrade, it will not only give you back the empowerment point you just used, but will refill your empowerment points completely. So if you draw down your empowerment points by self-empowering to restore wizard spells, you can get them all back if you use your final point to empower Her Revenge. This also works with the Her Tears Fell Like Rain ability as well.

Wow I didn't know it procced multiple times like that. And for a skald that costs 2 phrases so that's a lot of inspirations! The description of LUC says a random inspiration--it's always tier 3?

So SSS Refreshing Finale returns 1 empower point, but that is procced multiple times for abilities like that? Anything that hits multiple times? So Singt Thy Biting Winds would be another. Yeah I gotta try a Loremaster now...

[Waski]

38 minutes ago, Shai Hulud said:

Which is possible, if you're lucky. Should be level 6 on arrival, hierophant starts with 1 mechanic, my artist background has 1 mechanics, hylea's bounty is 2 mechanics, so if I put 6 levels towards mechanics I get 10. Which is enough with thieves' putty. But this means I invest nothing in stealth, just have 2 points effective from Hylea.

[Waski]

(wtf is wrong with quoting, cant write anything in post with quote) just retrain on departure from Maje @Shai Hulud

[Shai Hulud]

14 minutes ago, Waski said:

(wtf is wrong with quoting, cant write anything in post with quote) just retrain on departure from Maje @Shai Hulud

Ah. Duhh... lol. Was so hyperfocused on finding the reagent that didn't occur to me

[Boeroer]

If def. also works during pause.

[dgray62]

19 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

Wow I didn't know it procced multiple times like that. And for a skald that costs 2 phrases so that's a lot of inspirations! The description of LUC says a random inspiration--it's always tier 3?

So SSS Refreshing Finale returns 1 empower point, but that is procced multiple times for abilities like that? Anything that hits multiple times? So Singt Thy Biting Winds would be another. Yeah I gotta try a Loremaster now...

Regarding your first question I'm not entirely sure, but I seem to recall pretty much always getting tier 3 inspirations when I have done this. @Constentin Lévine, our POE2 loremaster who discovered this, could probably answer this question. Even if you get a lower tier inspiration they're overridden I think by a tier 3. Her Tears can also proc multiple inspirations if you are surrounded by peons or hit a big boss with multiple rays, due to the secondary explosions, like Her Revenge. I'm not sure if this works with O Eld Nary. I don't think it procs them multiple times like the other two. As for Refreshing Finale, you can empower any invocation and get an empower point back. However, things that proc multiple times, namely Her Revenge and Her Tears, will give you back multiple points, basically refreshing all of your empowerment points. So a chanter and another class that get a lot out of empowering, such bas druid, monk, priest and wizard, make a great MC combo. It's for this reason that vanilla wizard is probably the most OP for a Loremaster build.

Edit: I checked @Constentin Lévine's post on this, and discovered that O Eld Nary doesn't proc multiple inspirations. The only other invocation that does is Boil Their Flesh and its upgrade. I never really use this invocation, but I understand that it's pretty buggy unless you have the Balance Polishing Mod.

Edited December 21, 2022 by dgray62
Additional Information

[thelee]

On 12/21/2022 at 9:59 AM, dgray62 said:

Regarding your first question I'm not entirely sure, but I seem to recall pretty much always getting tier 3 inspirations when I have done this.

it's always tier 3, part of the item effect.

[Shai Hulud]

4 hours ago, thelee said:

it's always tier 3, part of the item effect.

That's pretty nice. Though the only tier 3 inspiration I can't consistently proc is intuitive.

Anybody know if I have to do Dim Prospects to do Overgrowth at Sayuka? I don't really get anything from going to Poko Kahara (none of the items are used, not that much XP). But the Savage Cunning buff is pretty nice and I have to drop by Tikawara. Poko Kahara is about a 2 day detour I guess? I mean will RDC eventually offer me A Matter of Import if I skip it or does Ashen Maw lead right to The Final Maneuver? 

[Not So Clever Hound]

On 12/23/2022 at 12:24 AM, Shai Hulud said:

Anybody know if I have to do Dim Prospects to do Overgrowth at Sayuka?

Yeah you have to. Iverra has to give you the diving equipment so you have to do it as part of the RDC quest line. 

[Shai Hulud]

3 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Yeah you have to. Iverra has to give you the diving equipment so you have to do it as part of the RDC quest line. 

Bummer. Hmm...is it worth the side trip to get Savage Cunning? Just +1 perception, though +2 survival is also nice. One of the more useful skills and it allows us to put more skills into areas that scale with gear like History.

Also some nice gear on Sayuka. Mahora Tanga in Cignath Mor, Xefa's Empirical Explication, Stalker's Patience. Though I don't need any of these. I did use the Bear Cub quite a lot though, best pet for boosting fortitude (+8).

Guess I'll swing by if there is time. Only decent gear on Poko Kahara is the Adra Ban... Beza's Tooth Blade is a decent saber but there are a thousand decent sabers. If First Blood could be extended and was a general action speed boost it would be amazing, but it only works with the weapon. I mean Marux Amanth is decent for priests and rogues I guess. Thundercrack is a decent pistol but pistols...meh. Nothing for a hierophant. 

The worst thing about POE2 is how far apart everything is. I don't mean just for the ultimate challenge. The areas feel really disconnected. It's like a great RPG interspersed with this crummy minigame of sailing across the ocean...Also where are the dungeons? Not a single proper dungeon in the whole game. The Forgotten Sanctum is the closest thing I guess. I really enjoyed the Endless Depths. Now that was a good dungeon. Not approaching the level of Durlag's Tower or Watcher's Keep but pretty damn good. 

Definitely preferred POE1. But I've played it a million times. Only thing POE2 does better is have multiclassing. And slightly better gear selection. Adding multiclassing to POE1 would be really interesting. 

And why the cut from a party of 6 to party of 5? Six is way better. Five really limits who you can take since you generally need a wizard, a priest, and at least one tank. Leaves maybe 1 character you can rotate. Ah I'm rambling again. 

[Not So Clever Hound]

1 hour ago, Shai Hulud said:

Marux Amanth is decent for priests and rogues I guess

It enables Hauani o We install-kill which is very nice. 
 

1 hour ago, Shai Hulud said:

Adding multiclassing to POE1 would be really interesting.

I’d love to see a mod for unified mechanics across the 2 games, with PoE classes and multi classing. One thing I dont know is if I prefer PoE 1 Damage Resistance or PoE 2 Armor Rating/Penetration system. I find the latter a bit too punishing at places for certain builds on max difficulty. 

[Shai Hulud]

3 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

It enables Hauani o We install-kill which is very nice. 
 

I’d love to see a mod for unified mechanics across the 2 games, with PoE classes and multi classing. One thing I dont know is if I prefer PoE 1 Damage Resistance or PoE 2 Armor Rating/Penetration system. I find the latter a bit too punishing at places for certain builds on max difficulty. 

Sacrifice / Worthy Sacrifice I guess? But you still have to get him down to near death first, I assume? I haven't had much trouble with Huani o Whe. It can take a while if you don't interrupt or zerg the oozes trying to merge but they don't threaten my character much. Probably the worst megaboss is Sigilmaster Auranic... I get hit with Arcane Dampener or Cleanse at the wrong time it can be bad. Or if I get terrified by the Obelisk of Terror (or is it Mystery?). That one puzzles me as it happens sometimes even when I'm wearing the jester hat with immune to resolve afflictions...

I haven't played POE1 in a while so some of the details of the mechanics I didn't recall, like I forgot about the DR / AR. In almost every area I prefer the POE1 mechanics I think. The multiclassing in POE2 is so good though. Opens up all kinds of possibilities you didnt have in the first game. Wizards got nerfed hard from POE1 to POE2 and yet somehow emerged even more broken lol. Priests got mega nerfed for no good reason. Same with druids. Don't recall them being particularly powerful with access to the whole spellbook. The most broken build I used in POE1 was a barbarian. Did the ultimate using a high int low dex barbarian that used quick switch to attack absurdly fast (I had a macro on my mouse that just paused and switched weapons twice really fast so it looked smooth) and that time siphon rapier to extend buffs forever (including the invisibility you get from cape of the master mystic).  Barbarian got nerfed to hell too. Some of the strongest classes like ciphers and chanters didn't receive any meaningful nerfs I don't think. Besides ciphers having god awful high level spells. Actually chanters seemed to get even stronger as they have some good high level spells now but lost brisk recitation (unless you're a troubador, which why not). 

Also prefer the interrupt system in POE1. There were some decent builds centered around high interrupt frequency. Proning was an actual debuff instead of a long interrupt. 

And no idea why they got rid of a lot of the universal and cross class feats. Like why can't I take quick switch unless I'm a fighter? Or why can't I take deep pockets unless I'm a rogue?

I guess mechanically the one thing I like is that Petrify does not basically insta-kill you anymore.

Fights in POE2 take way, way longer IIRC. Even lot of mook fights are grindfests because there's 20 enemies with 500 health for some reason. I like the companions in POE2 slightly better. They're a bit more fleshed out since you're almost forced to take them at various points.   

----

I keep trying to reply to things and it doesn't work. Thank god the forum saves my post in the editor...

[Not So Clever Hound]

1 hour ago, Shai Hulud said:

Sacrifice / Worthy Sacrifice I guess?

Yeah a rogue/cipher with magic amanth can destroy HoW in its first form without ever really fighting it. It’s funny Auranic is generally considered the easiest mega boss but I totally agree that with certain builds she’s actually a pain. Interesting comment about the obelisk’s terrify punching through RES immunity. If that’s the case well, that sucks!

Agree with your thoughts on PoE1 mechanics. I miss the interrupts and prone-lasting-forever fun. And being able to learn grimoire spells for wizard (although now we can permasteal and infinite cast any spell..). If you want to play a more acceptable barb in poe2, I suggest having a look at @Elric Galad balance polishing mod. He gave the barb some much needed love. 
 

Anyway, family time… Merry Xmas!

[Boeroer]

If I remember correctly only Cipher's Disintegrate prevents the splitting of HoW. All other destroy effects will not prevent that, including Worthy Sacrifice? 

[Not So Clever Hound]

9 hours ago, Boeroer said:

If I remember correctly only Cipher's Disintegrate prevents the splitting of HoW. All other destroy effects will not prevent that, including Worthy Sacrifice?

Yes, the ideal stress free sequence with Assassin/Cipher is: Gouging Strike HoW, go invisible and chill somewhere, once HoW is at near death, buff ACC, land disintegration from invisibility , turn invisible again and go land the Marux Amanth attack. Single wielded or better, dual wielded with Sun & Moon to maximize chances to land the attack (as all potential hits in the attack carry the effect)

[Constentin Lévine]

If I remember correctely what I understood about HoW, destroy effects dont prevent them to split (every effects that destroy on near death dont prevent splits) but Disintegrate is not a Destroy effect but a Self-Destroy effect applied on any kill including from destroy effects, I'm not sure I'm clear but in this sense, spells like Detonate on near death HoW previously hit by Distintegrate is basically a "25% of full Huani's HP" attack

[Shai Hulud]

Just finished my ultimate run. Nearly wiped in Ukaizo of all places because I forgot about the auto-rest and rushed into battle, quickly got smacked with some nasty debuffs and injuries, etc. Lost my resolve inspiration despite wearing Cap of the Laughingstock + Mirror Image up, also...

Will be a while before youtube finishes processing the videos. 

Also don't know if anyone cares about ultimate runs anymore, but I just recently got into this game and I wanted to do it and I did it.

[dgray62]

Congratulations! What are your thoughts on the build you used to accomplish this?

[Shai Hulud]

50 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

Congratulations! What are your thoughts on the build you used to accomplish this?

Thanks. I'll post a complete build later once youtube has finished processing the videos.

Blood mage / soul blade utilizing strand of favor and cabalist's gambeson to stack focus (among many other buffs). Use Citzal's Spirit Lance for 90% of encounters, didn't memorize a single wizard spell for most of the game, eventually memorized pull of eora because it works so well at grouping enemies so the lance can get all of them. Starting stats were like 15/10/14/18/18/3, island amaua for the might resistance though wild orlan is also a good choice. Cipher spells used are mostly psychovampiric shield, borrowed instinct, secret horrors, and soul annihilation. Used minor grimoire imprint to steal various spells. Stole any wizard spell I could but the important ones were priest: (withdraw, escape, halt, and restore) and druid (nature's balm). 

Important equipment: Magnera's Chain (+10 fort/reflex/will), Effigy's Husk (might immunity), ring of minor protection and prosperity's fortune (later 2x ring of minor protection), protective eothasian charm, giftbearer's cloth, bounding boots or boots of stability depending on encounter, upright captain's belt, cap of the laughingstock, squid's grasp / xoti's lantern normally used in combat before summoned weapon, weapon set 1 and 2 need lethandria's devotion and outworn buckler. This allows you to break any affliction besides dominate/charm by scripting rapid weapon switch (most important for arcane dampener). Shroud of the Phantasm to proc brilliant (though actually not necessary, can just blood sacrifice like every 10 seconds and 3 to 4 times on combat end), outworn buckler can also proc courageous but it isn't super important since we have near infinite concentration. Resounding Call for tenacious (upped later to energized with Slayer's Claw). Amra and Lord Darryn's Voulge for speed buffs. Rannig's Wrath for +10 deflection. Deltro's Cage Helm for Conduit (wearing right equipment this gives +150 to 220 or so % shock damage depending how lucky you are with the roll when chain lightning yourself). Scordeo's Trophy early to reduce recovery, later Scordeo's Edge, though you don't really need it.  Sanguine Great Sword for healing. Lots of other minor equipment buffs.

I did Belranga pre-SOTP, and Concelhaut, cave grub, watershaper dragon, magma dragon, Dorudugan and HOW pre-Scordeo's Edge (also arkemyr). But I took anything that made me more powerful. This is a build that starts sorta weak but the more things you kill, the more spells you steal, and the more buffs you proc the more powerful it gets, and that applies all the way to the end, so once I got Citzal's I generally ran TOWARDS combat, I did lots of random ship encounters etc., and devoured the souls of kith and monsters everywhere.

Grimoires: Llengrath's Martial Mysteries. Aloth's Grimoire (for minor imprint). Sometimes I open with a Ninagauth's Shadowflame or Jernaugh's Equalizing burst but that is really all that's needed.

Pets: pes early on (+10% melee dmg, 5% hit to crit), bear cub once you can get him (+8 fort, 5% melee dmg), even later Ooblit (+3 sec duration all beneficial effects). Ooblit isn't really necessary but reduces how often I have to cast certain spells and abilities (escape mostly). 

It's a no-rest build and I got as many buffs as I could: nature's resolve, alchemic guile/brawn/wits, cauldron shard, konstantens boon, savage cunning, hylea's bounty is best food as you can take it immediately and I think it remains the best for huge health boost, +2 all skills, +10 all defenses. 

Con and especially resolve are not that important because we have huge passive healing and can enormously buff defenses with borrowed instinct, psychovampiric shield, various stolen spells and various items. Main danger to the build is certain spells like arcane dampener, though that can be cleared in a couple seconds. Form of the Helpless Beast is pretty bad. That could potentially end the run if you're hit when vela pops out of withdraw. Can actually still fight pretty effectively as the pig if she is safe because of the high attack rate, interrupts, and lightning damage. Other afflictions like paralyze don't really matter because they hardly ever hit since we have renewable inspirations up constantly for every stat besides might which is a little harder to proc, and even if you get hit with a 20 second paralyze or something you can clear it in same manner as dampener. 

It is a very powerful build once it comes together around level 13 to 14. Lot of micromanagement with SOF for max effectiveness, though for party runs it would do fine without any of the SOF buffs. Can rip through bosses and waves of mooks alike.

Citzal's Spirit lance procs focus from both the primary target and secondary hits, so you build focus really quickly, and soul annihilation hits everyone the lance hits. If I were running this in a party without SOF micromanagement I would just script the char to use soul annihilation every time focus > 90 and you're threatened by more than 1 enemy, with like a 6 second cooldown. Soul annihilation was one of the things I couldn't script because the game limits the cipher resource cap to 90 in the scripting GUI, so if I want to use soul annihilation if and only if I have 1000+ focus, well, no way to do it except manually, and unfortunately with wael you're guessing at your current focus. I basically just zerged things with SA if they seemed high threat. Unfortunately SA does not generate more concentration or raise the max focus cap so you need to swap killing mooks normally with using SA on more dangerous things. 

By late game in my parallel, non-iron, non-wael run I had like 15000 max focus, and you start combat with I think 1/3 of that. Or maybe 1/5...IDK, it's a lot

I was inspired toward soul blade builds from watching SarcasticSarcophagae's ultimate run where he does a soul blade / ranger, but I didn't really like the ranger aspect. I think this build is stronger but that one is easier to build focus since you can just kill your pet over and over and don't need to seek battles. But I like seeking battles. And I wanted to make a character that felt like an unstoppable kensai/mage from Baldur's Gate (or a kensai/mage/cleric...), and this is as close as I could get with POE2. Also wanted to script as much of the fighting as possible. Most encounters can be handled entirely by the script. It gets confused by things like Sigilmaster Auranic's obelisks, and you have to manually cast withdraw and soul annihilation but it can otherwise autopilot. 

Hmm. Went into much more detail than I'd intended. Gotta save something for a build thread lol

[Not So Clever Hound]

18 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

Just finished my ultimate run.

Congratulations, mate! Looking forward to see the vids/build.

[Shai Hulud]

14 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Congratulations, mate! Looking forward to see the vids/build.

Thanks! Might be a few days before I post a build thread (unless I have time today), going to see family for a bit on friday