Ukraine Conflict

[xzar_monty]

Israel is often a peculiar outlier. Here's an example of how this may manifest in the war in Ukraine:

@Sarex: I'm not sure if there's a "Western narrative" as such at all. The 100k Ukrainian casualties is a figure that's openly discussed in Finland, for example. I agree that some of the noisy English-speaking press and some "official" outlets do appear rather foolish at times.

[Sarex]

7 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

@Sarex: I'm not sure if there's a "Western narrative" as such at all. The 100k Ukrainian casualties is a figure that's openly discussed in Finland, for example. I agree that some of the noisy English-speaking press and some "official" outlets do appear rather foolish at times.

I mean the reaction to her saying that and how it was handled should be telling. I do know that not all* media is like that, but the mainstream media for sure is.

[Mamoulian War]

On 12/17/2022 at 11:40 PM, Zoraptor said:

"But what about..."

I mean I was going to let the whole thing drop but on the good for goose, good for gander principle per above; are you going to admit that your statement "That is absolute bull**** Russian propaganda. Russian language was never penalized." was instead a load of Ukrainian/ western propaganda? No? Then you're just making yourself look silly by carrying it on.

Russian language was never penalized when used by common people. Period. You are critisizing all year long, how the media is not trustworthy, because they spin their wording to reflect their narative, and you are now trying to counter first hand experience by Russian speaking Ukrainians, who have run away in hundred thousands to Eastern Europe, by linking to news 360, who even though is trying to “offer views from all sides” is in this case just parroting Russian propaganda… LOL

But of course, you probably consider the Russian speaking Ukrainians who fled the war and are now sharing their experiences, as a tools of Western Propaganda as well

 

Now be so kind, and answer the question. How you feel about Russian state treating Ukrainian language. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[Mamoulian War]

If you have time to read 5k+ words long analysis of the state of Russian forces as seen from Russian perspective. This is very rare sight in the informational space surrounding this war, as it is not spoiled by Russian propaganda.

TL;DR. Russia is not prepared against Ukrainian winter offensive.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[xzar_monty]

Moscow libraries are now told to "recycle" (i.e. destroy) books that fail an LGBT propaganda test.

This looks both unbelievably childish and so sad & pitiful: a society must be very frightened of thinking if it deems that authors such as Stephen Fry, Michael Cunningham and Sarah Waters ought to have their books destroyed. But this is where Russia is now.

https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/12/19/from-jean-genet-to-sarah-waters-moscow-libraries-told-to-recycle-books-that-fail-lgbt-propaganda-test

[BruceVC]

@Mamoulian War

https://khpg.org/en/1608811138

Dont forget the Ruskies are also removing Ukrainian literature and language from occupied territory and yet its the Russian language that are the " victims " of the Ukrainians. Sure tell me another one  

Edited December 20, 2022 by BruceVC

[xzar_monty]

Gas pipeline explosion in Russia. Looks big, but I suppose it can't look small.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/blast-west-kazan-shuts-russia-ukraine-gas-export-pipeline-2022-12-20/

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by xzar_monty

[xzar_monty]

Now this is really something: the Russian ministry of justice has effectively ordered the shutdown of the Moscow Helsinki Group. I don't know whether people here are aware of this at all, but it might even be Russia's most important human rights organization (but don't quote me on that). Things are getting dire indeed, for anyone with humanity, in Russia.

News story: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-12-20/russia-files-lawsuit-to-close-down-one-of-oldest-human-rights-groups-court

Background: https://www.csce.gov/international-impact/press-and-media/statements/moscow-helsinki-group

[Mamoulian War]

A joint investigation by Easter European investigative journalists, prosaically called The Firehose of Falsehood. All you need to know about Russian Propaganda in the EU, especially in Eastern block. Surprise-surprise, they talking about Zerohedge portal as well @Darkpriest

https://www-icjk-sk.translate.goog/215/Tok-klamstiev-Ekosystem-prokremelskych-konspiracnych-a-radikalnych-pravicovych-dezinformacii-v-strednej-a-vychodnej-Europe-Kto-diriguje-protizapadnu-symfoniu?_x_tr_sl=sk&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Unfortunately I was not able to find English version, so I hope, Google translate does not offend.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[Mamoulian War]

Balls stronger than Adamantium-Vibranium alloy...

Zelenskiy visits Bakhmut to award soldiers defending the city...

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-visits-frontline-city-bakhmut-2022-12-20/

Edited December 20, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[xzar_monty]

Apart from that gaffe with the missiles that ended up in Poland, Zelenskyi has indeed been remarkably impressive during the war.

By contrast, both Putin and Lukasenka look dreadful: lacking in poise and grace, entirely joyless, rigid, mechanical and, from what I can determine, poorly educated.

I don't speak Russian, so I can't really comment on Putin's eloquence or lack of it, but it sounds to me that he speaks like a thug, in the same way that Trump does. As if having no education, or poor education. (Trump doesn't have manners, either, whereas Putin can play this game fairly well if he wants to.) I'm extremely keen on the way people speak and what their way of speaking tells of their learning, so it would be wonderful to able to say something about Putin in this regard.  But I can't.

 

 

AND IN OTHER NEWS TODAY: masked Russians throwing sledgehammers onto the yard of the Finnish embassy in Moscow. Apparently this is a response to the "repeated provocations" from Finland's side. News flash: there have been none whatsoever. Historical reminder: it is impossible not to provoke the Russians. Whenever they feel they want to be provoked, they will come up with an excuse for it. I also applaud the bravery of these people, wearing masks and all! I suppose we all know what the sledgehammer is a reference to.

Video: https://t.me/moslentaru/17606

Edited December 20, 2022 by xzar_monty

[Malcador]

5 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

If you have time to read 5k+ words long analysis of the state of Russian forces as seen from Russian perspective. This is very rare sight in the informational space surrounding this war, as it is not spoiled by Russian propaganda.

TL;DR. Russia is not prepared against Ukrainian winter offensive.

 

 

Not all that rare, Girkin has been providing commentary like this for ages. Murz has been pessimistic as well.  Funny with Girkin, he can almost redeem himself by posting doom about the Russian Forces.

Interesting to read though, seems manpower is still problem.

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

A joint investigation by Easter European investigative journalists, prosaically called The Firehose of Falsehood. All you need to know about Russian Propaganda in the EU, especially in Eastern block. Surprise-surprise, they talking about Zerohedge portal as well @Darkpriest

https://www-icjk-sk.translate.goog/215/Tok-klamstiev-Ekosystem-prokremelskych-konspiracnych-a-radikalnych-pravicovych-dezinformacii-v-strednej-a-vychodnej-Europe-Kto-diriguje-protizapadnu-symfoniu?_x_tr_sl=sk&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Unfortunately I was not able to find English version, so I hope, Google translate does not offend.

Thanks, translator worked fine. Really good read and why I am not surprised to see ZH as one of the Russian propaganda sites 

[xzar_monty]

While it has to be said that Russians have been surprisingly inept in many of the things they've attempted during the war in Ukraine, we must also acknowledge that they have been remarkably clever and effective in the way they have spread dis- and misinformation apparently all over the world; the aim has been to destabilize "the West" by encouraging all racist and far-right groups and basically everything that works against what is regarded as a democratic Western society. This has worked depressingly well, and part of the reason it has worked so well is that poor education is, unfortunately, quite rife in the West as well. The troll factories in St. Petersburg are effective because so many Westerners believe in fairy tales with trolls in them...

(This is not a direct reference to ZeroHedge, btw. Although, as I've said to Darkpriest before, one look at it is enough to tell me that it's rubbish.)

[Malcador]

Convenient root of all ills, too.

[Malcador]

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/12/20/world/russia-ukraine-news?smid=url-share#the-us-says-russian-officials-are-torn-over-whether-to-launch-a-new-offensive-this-winter

The official did not give details on the underlying intelligence that Washington is using as a window into the internal Russian debate. And because of the debate among the Russians, the official said it was unclear where “their actual actions will go.”

Ukraine’s top military and political leaders have warned recently that Russia is preparing to sharply escalate the war over the coming winter months.

Analysts of the Russian military say it would be difficult for Russia to mount such a winter offensive, since their forces have been worn down from the 10 months of fighting and the recent battlefield successes of the Ukrainian military.

[Mamoulian War]

An interesting interview from Germany, about the need of investigation of its ties to Russia.

 

https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/security-expert-we-need-an-international-investigation-of-germanys-russia-ties-li.296074

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, Mamoulian War said:

An interesting interview from Germany, about the need of investigation of its ties to Russia.

 

https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/security-expert-we-need-an-international-investigation-of-germanys-russia-ties-li.296074

I'm not really a fan of those after the fact witch hunts. Before the war, a significant number of countries thought of Russia as a perfectly profitable trade partner.  Should the same kind of investigation be done to see if countries have ties or monetary interest in trading with say China (lots of stuff sold to western companies manufactured by slave labour) or Saudi Arabia (the Saudi led war in Yemen has so far cost over twice as many lives as the war in Ukraine)? Should companies be boycotted for trading with such countries or buying oil from them? Sometimes "The West" is perfectly happy to do business with the devil as long as it doesn't hurt the next election. After the fact is a different issue. The moment Russia crossed the line (literally), it was time to break all connections of any kind that might benefit it. But before that moment, it wasn't really a "crime" doing business with dubious trading partners.

 

Edit: Tl;dr; if you want rules for conduct, apply them evenly or not at all

[Malcador]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/12/20/zelensky-congress-washington/

Wonder if there'll be anything special announced during this.

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Gorth said:

I'm not really a fan of those after the fact witch hunts. Before the war, a significant number of countries thought of Russia as a perfectly profitable trade partner.  Should the same kind of investigation be done to see if countries have ties or monetary interest in trading with say China (lots of stuff sold to western companies manufactured by slave labour) or Saudi Arabia (the Saudi led war in Yemen has so far cost over twice as many lives as the war in Ukraine)? Should companies be boycotted for trading with such countries or buying oil from them? Sometimes "The West" is perfectly happy to do business with the devil as long as it doesn't hurt the next election. After the fact is a different issue. The moment Russia crossed the line (literally), it was time to break all connections of any kind that might benefit it. But before that moment, it wasn't really a "crime" doing business with dubious trading partners.

 

Edit: Tl;dr; if you want rules for conduct, apply them evenly or not at all

 

@GorthIm cant seem to give ratings anymore, it gives an error and says " sorry, problem relating to this content " 

I am using Chrome, is there a solution to this because I know there have been some forum problems?

 

 

[Mamoulian War]

5 hours ago, Gorth said:

I'm not really a fan of those after the fact witch hunts. Before the war, a significant number of countries thought of Russia as a perfectly profitable trade partner.  Should the same kind of investigation be done to see if countries have ties or monetary interest in trading with say China (lots of stuff sold to western companies manufactured by slave labour) or Saudi Arabia (the Saudi led war in Yemen has so far cost over twice as many lives as the war in Ukraine)? Should companies be boycotted for trading with such countries or buying oil from them? Sometimes "The West" is perfectly happy to do business with the devil as long as it doesn't hurt the next election. After the fact is a different issue. The moment Russia crossed the line (literally), it was time to break all connections of any kind that might benefit it. But before that moment, it wasn't really a "crime" doing business with dubious trading partners.

 

Edit: Tl;dr; if you want rules for conduct, apply them evenly or not at all

Yes, I understand that fully, but as far as I understand it, it is more about possible corruption in these ties? Unfortunately, we do not live in Utopia, and sometimes, there have to be done some ugly compromises. And I am one of the people, who would like to see the responsible people pay for Yemen atrocities. Anyway, If someone has undermined or neglected the security of EU for his own financial gains, like the EU MP, which is currently in custody, he should be responsible for it. 

[Mamoulian War]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

@GorthIm cant seem to give ratings anymore, it gives an error and says " sorry, problem relating to this content " 

I am using Chrome, is there a solution to this because I know there have been some forum problems?

 

 

Looks like issue is on Safari as well. On Safari realoading the page helps to solve it.

[xzar_monty]

It's really hard to believe that anything like this could be a real ad, even in Russia. But is this real?

 

[Gorth]

8 hours ago, BruceVC said:

@GorthIm cant seem to give ratings anymore, it gives an error and says " sorry, problem relating to this content " 

I am using Chrome, is there a solution to this because I know there have been some forum problems?

 

 

There are some issues with the forum software the moment. I've been away most of the day and wanted to reply to this earlier via my phone, but Safari is now completely FUBAR for use with this version of the board software. What I had wanted to post was suggesting to make a post of it in the forum issues thread in the Obsidian General forum. Admin is collecting as much info as possible, trying to sort out some issues. Currently it eats any and all posts submitted from Safari, as well as blocks any post ratings. The only two things I've been able to do most of the day is either approve posts from new accounts or kill off suspected spam bot accounts. No moving of threads, no posting, nada, njet, nix, null, nein 

[Gorth]

6 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

Yes, I understand that fully, but as far as I understand it, it is more about possible corruption in these ties? Unfortunately, we do not live in Utopia, and sometimes, there have to be done some ugly compromises. And I am one of the people, who would like to see the responsible people pay for Yemen atrocities. Anyway, If someone has undermined or neglected the security of EU for his own financial gains, like the EU MP, which is currently in custody, he should be responsible for it. 

That I can wholeheartedly agree with. Those who know me know I abhor people in powerful positions acting without accountability.