Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 5

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I've been carving a path through Alushinyrra and I still hate the maps. Yes I know that it's supposed to be a chaotic city and all that, but having to rotate the camera so the paths stay open is very annoying.

2 hours ago, Sarex said:

Would have done it on the first try had I not been going for the flawless victory...Those stairs are the worst, I cannot believe they didn't fix them after this long.

I stopped trying to do perfect because the rooftop guys just die. I don't think there is much difference, if any, between perfect and making sure the arsonists don't burn anything.

Also I play in TB and that encounter is broken in TB, as are the mythic demons who resurrect themselves after getting killed once.

[kanisatha]

6 hours ago, Gorth said:

I don't remember act ii, but as @Gromnir said, thirty days is the grace period you get after capturing a fort before something bad is supposed to happen. One of the three tower icons on top of the HUD turns yellow after said thirty days in act iii and act v. I didn't leave them in that state for long though, so I don't know the practical implications of it. The only this was a concern was during the end game, as I forgot to space the conquests out a bit and I had all towers under my control with nothing left to take. I suppose I could have left a tower under enemy siege to its own devices and go re-conquer it. But the moral changes may end up being a net negative if doing it that way

Ah ok. I'm in Act 2, and that third 30-day timer tower is not even there on my HUD banner yet. Only the 4-day and 10-day timers.

Spoiler

I asked about the hellknights only because taking on those gargoyles seems pretty rough right now. My party is 6th level  and my general is 3rd level.

[Sarex]

58 minutes ago, Space KP, Baby said:

I've been carving a path through Alushinyrra and I still hate the maps. Yes I know that it's supposed to be a chaotic city and all that, but having to rotate the camera so the paths stay open is very annoying.

Yeah, that is really annoying or really cool, but there is something that just doesn't feel good when rotating the camera in WotR.

1 hour ago, Space KP, Baby said:

I stopped trying to do perfect because the rooftop guys just die. I don't think there is much difference, if any, between perfect and making sure the arsonists don't burn anything.

Oh no, F that, I was thinking about all the building surviving. Did anyone actually do that without having any npc die? Do you get something for doing it like that?

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, kanisatha said:

Ah ok. I'm in Act 2, and that third 30-day timer tower is not even there on my HUD banner yet. Only the 4-day and 10-day timers.

  Hide contents

I asked about the hellknights only because taking on those gargoyles seems pretty rough right now. My party is 6th level  and my general is 3rd level.

act iii and beyond is 30-days for the fort conquest. however, your general and class level suggest that one of your first army battles were taking the vilareth ford fort. unless owlcat addressed the issue, a win at vilareth will activate the fort conquest timer so be aware. 

the gargoyles is tough and we always face 'em as a level seven party. 

Spoiler

the final battle to save the hellknights is no joke and when Gromnir first saved regill during the beta, we had our proverbial arse handle to us by the gargoyles. sure, now we play and is ez, but is only ez 'cause we know exact how the battle will unfold. 

w/o too many spoilers, be prepared for a battle which has a considerable duration and multiple waves o' gargoyles spawning from two different locations on the map.  

am recommending level seven, particular if you got animal companions such as dogs which get their power/size increase at level seven. other than leopard and horse am thinking all animal companions need wait for level seven to be having their growth spurt. 

also, we got a much different pov regarding heighten compared to @majestic

am thinking heighten is kinda essential on every caster we got. our nenio, for example, has phantasmal killer occupying multiple levels in her spellbook thanks to heighten. is a whole lotta spells in the game and many/most is useless. there will be spell levels which is relative bad and yeah, heighten means you may upgrade any spell by one or more levels to fill relative spell dead zones. also, if am using ember as an enchanter and blaster, then to get same dcs by raising glitterdust to level seven or eight with heighten, then we need take multiple conjuration boosting feats-- one v. multiple is not a hard choice to make on a feat starved character like ember. also, unlike empower and bolster, heighten applies to every spell, so is more potential uses; yet another situation where more utility is better, yes? 

btw, there is a whole lotta rods in the game, so is less reason to choose metamagic feats other than heighten, though admitted, selective is gonna be one feat which on higher difficulties you want early in the game and you don't have access to selective rods in act one or two.

'course is a fail to ignore the reality you got multiple party members. if you got nenio in your party, your main character is a caster, or you hire a merc, then whether or not to add selective to ember (or any character) becomes a strategic concern. 

aside, much o' this reflection should be moot if spells were implemented according to pnp rules. selective is so not supposed to work with spells which last more than an instant; blame owlcat for the exploit o' spells such as grease and scirocco. admitted, the fact it is a busted arse mechanic don't stop us from spamming selective sciroccos late in the game. 

btw, all the observations 'bout heighten doesn't mean our pov is correct. our unique pov is why we have lann taking divine hunter levels and is the reason we played an enchanter skald in our most recent run.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited December 29, 2022 by Gromnir

[uuuhhii]

11 hours ago, Space KP, Baby said:

I've been carving a path through Alushinyrra and I still hate the maps. Yes I know that it's supposed to be a chaotic city and all that, but having to rotate the camera so the paths stay open is very annoying.

I stopped trying to do perfect because the rooftop guys just die. I don't think there is much difference, if any, between perfect and making sure the arsonists don't burn anything.

Also I play in TB and that encounter is broken in TB, as are the mythic demons who resurrect themselves after getting killed once.

the amount of dimension door that chapter require would be tolerable if player are prepared

pretty awful the first time went in unprepared

[Gromnir]

12 hours ago, Space KP, Baby said:

Also I play in TB and that encounter is broken in TB, as are the mythic demons who resurrect themselves after getting killed once.

probable a mod problem as we play in tb near exclusive and tavern defense is no longer busted and distorted mythic demons is designed to revive and self-heal. the last vestige o' tavern defense tb fumbduckery which were finally exorcised made the tavern defense easier as 'posed to more difficult as the the baddies would become stuck at the gates and so it were ez to pick 'em off at range. as for distorted mythic demons... meh. seeing as how our parties is always taking advantage o' attacks of opportunity, the demon revive is near always an insta-death scenario for the demon as most o' our party is having ever ready, combat reflexes and now lunge as well as outflank. regardless, the revive is a feature and not a bug. 

there is(was?) one portion o' the upper city alushinyrra map (south near vellexia's mansion) which bugs out a bit in tb combat so we reflexive switch to real time as am uncertain if the problem has been addressed. 

mounted combat also results in a few tb quirks which has been present since at least the beta. no amount o' bug reports has resulted in fixes to all tb mounted combat bugs. 

1 hour ago, uuuhhii said:

the amount of dimension door that chapter require would be tolerable if player are prepared

pretty awful the first time went in unprepared

is not, strictly speaking, required. am unable to recall any critical path fodder on rooftops. however, there is more than a few rooftop encounters and a couple o' those provide endgame 1007. the pathetic quasit is also accessible only via dimension door. so while is maybe not required, it does feel unnecessarily obtuse to hide so much content where is inaccessible w/o dimension door.  yeah, there is demons who share dialog which suggests you should access rooftops and is a few places where is near impossible to not see rooftop chests and traps, but indeed is too ez to miss and is not a kewl gameplay feature so much as a minor annoyance, so what is the point, eh? 

full disclosure, am embarrassed to admit we missed the scorcher of souls in the colphyr mines 'cause we didn't dimension door to his little island the firstest time we completed act iv. as such we missed the manual o' gainful exercise +2 and a whole lotta xp. post inevitable excess, scorcher o' souls isle is where you find the flawless headband of mental perfection +8. 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited December 30, 2022 by Gromnir

[Sarex]

Lost a crusader wizard npc to unlock magic doors... Had to reload the whole floor...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I've done a lot of romping around Alushinyrra, the highlight of which was to become champion of the arena and turn a temperamental demoness into a mirror. Also fought a pathetic quasit. 

So far I am enjoying the shenanigans of the Trickster. If I could change one thing, it'd be swapping the path guide

from Socothbenoth, Demon Lord of perversion (and maybe rape?) to our buddy from Kingmaker The Lantern King. I did like the VA for The Lantern King though, and I think Trickster fits him well.

[InsaneCommander]

22 hours ago, Gromnir said:

full disclosure, am embarrassed to admit we missed the scorcher of souls in the colphyr mines 'cause we didn't dimension door to his little island the firstest time we completed act iv. as such we missed the manual o' gainful exercise +2 and a whole lotta xp. post inevitable excess, scorcher o' souls isle is where you find the flawless headband of mental perfection +8.

Thanks for mentioning it. I'll be resuming my pt soon and I think I'm close to that part. My next quest is to follow the beggar's advice and invade a certain tower in the abyss.

Edit: @Sarex I suggest you have one of your spontaneous casters learn Dimension Door to make things easier in act 4. But it is not really necessary.

Edited December 31, 2022 by InsaneCommander

[xzar_monty]

I wonder if anyone's seen this happen (@Gromnir perhaps?).

Playing an Azata. Act III. The Queen has not arrived, but I am not able to do the Azata thing and go to the Midnight Fane before the Queen shows up. This is just weird. I can talk to the Hand of the Inheritor about a few things, but the option to start the Azata assault is not there.

[Gromnir]

7 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

I wonder if anyone's seen this happen (@Gromnir perhaps?).

Playing an Azata. Act III. The Queen has not arrived, but I am not able to do the Azata thing and go to the Midnight Fane before the Queen shows up. This is just weird. I can talk to the Hand of the Inheritor about a few things, but the option to start the Azata assault is not there.

as azata have personal only attacked before the queen's arrival one time as am ordinarily using as much time as appears reasonable to maximize crusade buildings/infrastructure before starting act iv. did the azata pre-queen attack one time just to see what difference were observable and that were many patches in the rear view mirror.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[kanisatha]

So yet another question about the crusade mode. How does experience work for the crusade army units? Each unit has an "experience" value number. However, even though I am winning army battles against demon armies, that experience number for each unit in my army does not change. My general gains experience points, but the units such as footmen and archers etc don't have their experience go up. And Google doesn't show any info re. army unit experience. Thanks!

[Gromnir]

55 minutes ago, kanisatha said:

So yet another question about the crusade mode. How does experience work for the crusade army units? Each unit has an "experience" value number. However, even though I am winning army battles against demon armies, that experience number for each unit in my army does not change. My general gains experience points, but the units such as footmen and archers etc don't have their experience go up. And Google doesn't show any info re. army unit experience. Thanks!

experience for marksmen, shield bearers, or vampire ninja pirates (not joking) is a less than transparent method for describing the value o' a single unit at least insofar as your total army strength and relative to other individual units. add up all the xp from all your army individual units and you arrive at army strength/level. 20 xp for individual marksmen. 43 xp for a hellknight.

individual units don't gain experience. only generals benefit from xp gains. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

board software is being funky 

after "strength/level" is s'posed to read as follows:

is 20 xp for individual marksmen and if you have 100 marksmen that means your marksmen account for 2000xp. 43 xp for a hellknight and you got 50 of 'em then that is 2150 xp. your army o' 100 marksmen and 50 hellknights would thus be worth a totals o' 4150 xp... and am having no idea what that means insofar as army strength.

am not even gonna try and link anything.

HA! Good Fun!

[Zoraptor]

16 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Playing an Azata. Act III. The Queen has not arrived, but I am not able to do the Azata thing and go to the Midnight Fane before the Queen shows up. This is just weird. I can talk to the Hand of the Inheritor about a few things, but the option to start the Azata assault is not there.

You now only get the one option to preempt Galfrey's arrival. If you missed it then you can't talk to the Hand of the Inheritor later and choose to do it even if she is yet to turn up, you have to choose in the initial conversation about it. That is, I believe, a change from initial versions of how it worked.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Zoraptor

[xzar_monty]

3 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

You now only get the one option to preempt Galfrey's arrival. If you missed it then you can't talk to the Hand of the Inheritor later and choose to do it even if she is yet to turn up, you have to choose in the initial conversation about it. That is, I believe, a change from initial versions of how it worked.

Ok, thanks. Tallies perfectly with what I remember: I used to be able to preempt even after the initial conversation. So my memory isn't failing, and there is no bug, either, it's just that they've changed things around a bit.

So I went and waited for the Queen to arrive.

[InsaneCommander]

12 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

You now only get the one option to preempt Galfrey's arrival. If you missed it then you can't talk to the Hand of the Inheritor later and choose to do it even if she is yet to turn up, you have to choose in the initial conversation about it. That is, I believe, a change from initial versions of how it worked.

I don't know if it changed recently, but if you don't pick the Xanthir option when talking to the Hand, he will not call the Queen.

On 10/8/2022 at 10:11 PM, InsaneCommander said:

Ok, I figured it out. I didn't pick the Xanthir option, the first one in the dialogue. Now he didn't talk about calling the Queen* and he will stay there guarding the city. Aivu wants to attack soon, but I think there is no timer.

*Unless I rushed through the dialogue and missed it, but I think he didn't mention her.

This worked for me.

[Zoraptor]

Ah, ok. We'd have done it at pretty much exactly the same time (think I was slightly behind you at that point, but only slightly), so unlikely there would be any difference.

Most of the earlier information I saw said initially you could change your mind about the impromptu assault even after Galfrey had been summoned, for about a week, but at some point that got changed to what it is now.

[xzar_monty]

I am now in the Abyss, and I suppose something else has been changed, too, or else I just haven't been meticulous enough: the last time I was here, I was carrying a wand of Dimension Door, Mass, which was extremely helpful with the rooftops and all that, but this time I haven't seen one. I have no idea where I got it last time.

[uuuhhii]

pretty sure one of the merchant in chapter 3 city sell one

Edited January 2, 2023 by uuuhhii

[Gromnir]

13 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

I am now in the Abyss, and I suppose something else has been changed, too, or else I just haven't been meticulous enough: the last time I was here, I was carrying a wand of Dimension Door, Mass, which was extremely helpful with the rooftops and all that, but this time I haven't seen one. I have no idea where I got it last time.

there is a wand of dimension door in a hidden spot on the map where you meet the loquacious kobold in act 2. is the only location for the wand as far as am recalling. kinda a bit far back in the game for you to reload, eh?

might wanna check the treasure of the midnight isles vendor albeit not for the wand. initially the chaplain carried 99 scrolls o' just 'bout every spell, but then his inventory were trimmed a bit so am not certain if dimension door were removed along with pillars of life and a few other spells.

HA! Good Fun!

[Sarex]

Arrived at Drezen and mowing through the demons mostly.

[Sarex]

Just found out I missed an interact (Thall) in the Market Square in Act 1... I got the other 2, but I had no clue there were 3... Not a big deal all in all but I was trying not to miss stuff.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Sarex

[majestic]

Guess you're not getting the Azata option then, and, uhm... probably also no early access to your favorite waifu, Aru.  

[Sarex]

12 minutes ago, majestic said:

Guess you're not getting the Azata option then, and, uhm... probably also no early access to your favorite waifu, Aru.  

I'm going for the Angel one and aiming for the queen.