Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 4

[Gromnir]

respec'd lann (3/17 zen archer/divine hunter (hunter)) 'cause velociraptor talons no longer count as natural weapons: other, rendering useless our weapon focus and improved critical feats for the dino. lann lost access to domain spells on respec. to test the problem we created a knockoff merc approximating our lann zen archer/divine hunter and the merc similar suffered from the absence o' domain spells.

as a spontaneous caster, divine hunter access to domain spells were kinda a major positive and is in fact part o' the pnp design if altered somewhat. for example, being able to cast divine power multiple times per rest were a major benefit.

sent a bug report. am expecting a fix in december... if lucky will be december of this year. based on past experience, such a fix is not gonna be high priority. nevertheless if you got a divine hunter who current benefits from domain spells, be warry o' respec. 

HA! good Fun!

[Gorth]

I seem to have acquired a Shadow Demon somehow. I only just noticed it after venturing out of Drezen (first departure since leveling up my party). Not objecting to it's presence (it's an awesome tank, immune to physical damage), but if it's not linked to my main character, I think I would prefer to keep the party member behind it in my party. That is, if I knew which one

On a positive note, had a lengthy chat with the Story Teller, who converted some of my old junk (and took all the old elven notes off my hands) into nice magical items. I need more Cold Iron Ingots though

[Azdeus]

@GromnirYou could probably fix it yourself with Toybox https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderwrathoftherighteous/mods/8

Edited September 23, 2022 by Azdeus
Forum won't let me add text...

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Azdeus said:

@GromnirYou could probably fix it yourself with Toybox https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderwrathoftherighteous/mods/8

is probable a good idea but am avoiding mods. can't give meaningful feedback on bugs if am using mods.

for a typical game there would come a time approximate six-months post release when most major bugs had been addressed and at some indefinite point thereafter we would indulge mod use. wotr is a bit different. am assuming is gonna be at least a few months post enhanced edition before am viewing the game is being complete. completeish? complete enough?

am gonna repeat once more how given the issues with kingmaker, and in spite o' ongoing bug issues with wotr, am pleasant surprised (relative speaking) by the stability o' wotr. yeah, the game current has numerous frustrating bugs, some o' which has persisted since the beta. however, most o' the major and common game killing bugs were addressed quick enough and while there continues to be a laundry list o' mechanics issues, particular with mounted combat, is nowhere close to the instability we were experiencing with kingmaker. 

is another reason am moderate disappointed with owlcat at least temp abandoning pathfinder, 'cause while am recognizing their inclusion o' epic for wotr made a follow-up first edition 1e adventure path problematic, owlcat had made great improvements 'tween kingmaker and wotr and if similar improvements were made 'tween wotr and the next pathfinder game, we would no doubt be genuine impressed and satisfied.

haven't played the new dlc btw, but the through the ashes release, while highly linear and buggy, implemented numerous alternative quest/obstacle resolution options we saw as an impressive step forward in owlcat's approach to pathfinder gameplay. was looking forward to the next full game to see what owlcat had genuine learned from wotr. too bad.

@Gorthread the item descriptions o' your spell caster's belt slot. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps could be wrong, but it appears as if the most recent minor patch changed elemental barrage so it is no longer proc'd by weapon effects. am suspecting for most causal players this would go unnoticed, but for those o' us who were looking for hard and unfair difficulty exploits, this is a major nerf. can't complain too much seeing as how from the power description we never woulda' guessed weapon elemental damage would result in an elemental barrage trigger. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Gromnir

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

@Gorthread the item descriptions o' your spell caster's belt slot.

Ahahhh! A recent acquisition indeed (it was driving me crazy). Thank you

[InsaneCommander]

Terendelev’s lair.

Spoiler

I was disappointed there was no option to arrest the cultist, you either spare or kill him, but then Hal revealed himself and I noticed that this is a Gold Dragon Mythic path trigger. I took what can only be the right choice and left the guy alive.
Aivu had a nice talk with Hal and the dragon left when I asked him to help with the crusade. Apparently, metallic dragons affairs are more urgent than a demonic invasion. Or he is a fan of Tuxedo Mask.

 

Core of Riddle

Spoiler

I’m glad I gave up trying to solve the puzzle after a few minutes. I thought I had to match the dominoes with BOTH of the single squares. I’d never have solved it without googling the solution.

I also had a random encounter with a level 19 Vrolikai that appeared right behind my party. Luckily it was Frightened even by the -20 check with Swift Mythic Dazzling.

 

Befouled Barrows

Spoiler

I chose to pray for the dead instead of looting them. I hope I didn’t lose anything important, but after the long escape sequence and the “help” from the corpses, I imagined my good aligned character would want to pay respect.

 

[Gorth]

i still haven't made up my mind if I want to keep the ring Daeran gave me or just sell it for the 15k...

My main character doesn't really have  room for it and he's the one with the boots of freedom of movement, because he's such a hero... well, a frothing at the mouth, lunatic barbarian and the largest damage dealer in the party to boot (pun unintended).

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So I just beat Inevitable Excess on unfair. It has puzzles that makes you want to scream, teleporting around instead of walking, some really unfun encounters, and little relevance to the main game. There's also a secret encounter that's ridiculously busted where the Darkness goes beyond Playful with around 115 AC and level drain on hit with its many attacks. The DLC is worth playing once only so you can say NEVER AGAIN and instead sink your time into theory crafting builds to make sure they actually work.

[Gromnir]

8 hours ago, KP From Another World said:

So I just beat Inevitable Excess on unfair.

so, it was... unfair?

...

well, ok then.

unfair requires exploitive nonsense and as @majestic has observed, the boss battles you may prepare for is ordinary not the real hurdle for an unfair run. rather it is a few o' the trash mobs and ambushes which happen immediate following a transition or the like which is the genuine source o' frustration  for unfair.

our dual wielding aeon (hardly the best pathfinder ab build) laughs at 115 ac... and after a hit, no high level enemy is boasting ac 115 anyway 'cause chances are we dispelled most protections. sure we gotta cheese stuff. use madness domain power to boost our own ab and sacrifice skills and saves, but so what 'cause aeon's is immune to just 'bout everything.  don't need will or fort saves if am immune to all mind effects, level drain and ability drain, eh? so do the usual with guarded hearth, mark of justice and either a judge, skald or some other buffer silliness which is not so silly for unfair as it is kinda assumed required and 115 ac is evoking a yawn unless there is some other unique quality. btw, our aeon is most often using the ab gaze, aoo gaze and the miss chance gaze, so with mythic level 10 for inevitable excess am seeing attacks of opportunity which trigger on a crit getting +10 for attack gaze, +10 for aoo gaze and another +10 'cause 'course we got ever ready mythic power. add food bonus and luck bonuses and insight bonuses and... etc.

is similar exploits for angel, legend, azata and every other mythic path, though admitted am less keen on gold dragon for unfair battles as is kinda lacking in subtlety and relying near complete on a blunt force approach. the whole point o' unfair is to overwhelm the player with jaw dropping numbers and while the gold dragon boosts to abilities and damage is nice and all, they don't keep pace well with unfair. 

regardless, it's unfair, so... duh.

the thing is, kp identifies an actual problem, but only oblique. see, core and normal is gonna be scaled down from unfair, and the real issue is the bosses is gonna scale crude. inevitable darkness on core is functional gonna be the same critter with same immunities and same powers as unfair, but its ac, saves and hps is gonna be lowered. if you know all the exploits, unfair bosses is child's play, and ordinary it takes far more time for us to pre-buff a party for a boss battle than it takes to actual finish the demon lord or whatever. the casual player who makes a vanilla fighter and doesn't have all the right equipment and ideal party composition is far less prepared for core boss than is Gromnir when facing unfair. 90 something ac on core v 115 on unfair? 

unfair being unfair ain't an issue. the problem we see is that a few o' the bosses scaled down from unfair and played on core or normal is gonna be disproportionately challenging for players who is otherwise enjoying wotr content, players who likely don't know every stoopid wotr exploit and don't wanna need respec their entire party just so they are able to finish the game.  as such am thinking is core and normal which is mostest unfair. wotr, at most difficulty levels including core and normal, punishes your for not knowing and taking advantage o' exploits. the game is designed to be enjoyed by hardcore players... which is gonna suck if you are a crpg fan with only vague knowledge o' pathfinder nuance. could be prohibitive punishing.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[xzar_monty]

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

as such am thinking is core and normal which is mostest unfair. wotr, at most difficulty levels including core and normal, punishes your for not knowing and taking advantage o' exploits. the game is designed to be enjoyed by hardcore players... which is gonna suck if you are a crpg fan with only vague knowledge o' pathfinder nuance. could be prohibitive punishing.

Hmm. This tallies with my experience. I am fairly good but certainly not great. I would never laugh at 115 ac, for instance.

Anyway, I was playing on Core. There were difficulties, sure. But I managed. Until I ran into Playful Darkness. I mean, sheesh. That one encounter taught me that I should have learned an awful lot of exploits I'd had no idea about before. (I turned the difficulty way down, in the end, and then up again, after that encounter.)

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

115 AC is hilarious just for how crazy busted it is. That's over 2x the numbers the highest CR pnp monsters will have and unless you're taking full advantage of stacking exploits something that will be nigh insurmountable. At least Inevitable Darkness is something you have to go out of your way to fight and can't accidentally stumble across like Playful Darkness.

Unfortunately no difficulty setting or mod can fix the teleporting around design that inflates time sunk into the dlc by around 50%.

[InsaneCommander]

I did Regill's quest and he was not impressed.

Spoiler

What a hypocrite! He sat down to talk with the demon. I merely fooled them to get information and loot.

Another round of council meetings. Do I need to say how Konomi reacted?

Daeran, again, wins for the best suggestions. Not that I chose them, although one had a really good benefit. I went with combat morale instead, since I'm playing on normal and I want to try other options.

[Gorth]

More or less cleared out the Ivory Sanctum. Sided with Jeri...something. First enemy you encounter. The one that doesn't like the Lord of Flies/Grasshoppers (the one whose name starts with 'X' and not, it's not Xvim, sorry, I really suck at remembering names from top of my head). Cleared out the sanctum. Got my self killed several times checking for alternative loot from the puzzle/trap combos (the notes gave hints to open doors, but when just randomly clicking, one of them revealed a chest, so I went back and face tanked all the explosives)

Got some nice rings and stuff. Killed the grasshopper boss in a most frustrating fight. You get him down on his knees and ready to be decapacitated and... he gets back up at full health with all his summons while my party, the 5 survivors (barely, between 5 and 50 percent health), has to scrape by low on spells, health and used all their items ready in their belts. Ember was polymorphed into a canine, cowering on the floor while getting nibbled to death by swarms (since half of them seemed to beeline towards her), my mounts were dead, X guy had cast mass haste on his team and mass slow on my team, Seelah was dead, Sosiel died next, Arueshalae was clinging on to 2hp when I remembered I had a few resurrection scrolls. I somehow managed to get my succubus disengaged for one round and could in the next few rounds add scrolls of resurrection to her belt. Got Sosiel back up (who had both raise dead and resurrection spells, as well as Heal). In a rather haphazard way, I managed to patch enough party members up to kill the boss, after which some of the summons disappeared (not the grasshopper swarms). Then it was a fight of attrition. Lots of sleeping and healing afterwards. I did go back in and use the key to open up the door to the exit, but I forgot two things. Outside there was a ledge with a mobility check which I forgot and I forgot to go back the first boss and claim my reward in the form of information

Luckily I have a teleport site not too many hours walk away... if I can reenter the sanctum that is.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, KP From Another World said:

115 AC is hilarious just for how crazy busted it is.

it is not at all busted in owlcat's wotr which includes every bit of cheese no living gamemaster would allow including owlcat mythic paths which is nothing like pathfinder. compare to pnp is not reasonable, particular when is ez to achieve +130 ac for your characters as well as +115 ab. is particular not busted as you were playing unfair. is right in the freaking name. 

again, the problem is how owlcat scales down. 115 bare deserves a shrug from Gromnir as long as we can prepare a level 20 party, but for somebody who did not literal spend hundreds o' hours on the beta and maybe only picked up wotr 'cause they kinda like crpgs, a normal or core run is gonna be unforgiving. on core, inevitable darkness has more than 90 ac. 115 doesn't shock or surprise us and poses no real problems as inevitable, much like playful, is a straight up melee combatant. in fact, inevitable is easier than playful darkness 'cause you fight inevitable at level 20 and mythic level 10. as such, inevitable is not broken at all 'cause it bare results in a meaningful challenge for a prepared player who knows every exploit. you don't have access to creeping doom? well, too bad for you. playful is much more difficult encounter 'cause is fewer options for overcoming such an obstacle at level 14ish and mythic rank 4. 

21 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Killed the grasshopper boss in a most frustrating fight.

swarms are annoying, but there is a ring which makes things a whole lot easier... keep in mind for later. bane of spirit don't likely sound as if it is a swarm killer item, but your barbarian's weapon damage would affect swarms while the ring is activated. as such it is possible and not the least bit intuitive to make short work o' the swarms with a weapon-haver.

also, while demonic swarms is immune to a whole lotta physical damage, those swarms are curious weak to unholy damage, so those six-per-day uses o' the devouring lust rod is a playing field leveler. cast your aoe elemental spells with the rod and watch swarms evaporate.

HA! Good Fun!

ps the secret of secrets encounter is unlikely to be stumbled on by accident but may be completed in act iii

spoiler (am serious, this is a spoiler, so am suggesting not viewing until you finish act iii):

Spoiler

 

is not an ez encounter if you have difficulty dealing with swarms.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

I did Regill's quest and he was not impressed.

Regill is the middle manager from hell, nothing but complete compliance with impress him.

Spoilers ahoy, if you don't want them I'd just say consider using someone besides Regill in your Azata run.

His Act 5 quest sees him put you on trial. If you fail it the Hellknights turn on you. If you pass it Regill fights you and gets back in line.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

I did Regill's quest and he was not impressed.

  Reveal hidden contents

What a hypocrite! He sat down to talk with the demon. I merely fooled them to get information and loot.

Another round of council meetings. Do I need to say how Konomi reacted?

Daeran, again, wins for the best suggestions. Not that I chose them, although one had a really good benefit. I went with combat morale instead, since I'm playing on normal and I want to try other options.

one o' the more easily overlooked army campaign spells is good hope. is something wonky 'bout the math but am receiving more combat morale benefit than we should from good hope. wasn't until recent you could view your unit morale, so were difficult to gauge the impact o' combat morale, but being able to have units act 2x is a huge advantage. build monuments everywhere and cast good hope will, in act v, result in guaranteed double actions by your units. take a few o' those crusade enhancements such as the one you mention and good hope becomes unnecessary.

HA! Good Fun!

[InsaneCommander]

2 hours ago, KP From Another World said:

Spoilers ahoy, if you don't want them I'd just say consider using someone besides Regill in your Azata run.

He only joins for his quests. My character doesn't really like the evil companions. Or at least she doesn't feel comfortable with them around. And who can blame her? Camellia, Daeran, Wenduag and Regill...

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

one o' the more easily overlooked army campaign spells is good hope. is something wonky 'bout the math but am receiving more combat morale benefit than we should from good hope. wasn't until recent you could view your unit morale, so were difficult to gauge the impact o' combat morale, but being able to have units act 2x is a huge advantage. build monuments everywhere and cast good hope will, in act v, result in guaranteed double actions by your units. take a few o' those crusade enhancements such as the one you mention and good hope becomes unnecessary.

HA! Good Fun!

I chose the Combat Morale because of your posts. I've been paying attention. It helped that the option fitted my character's view of valuing the new recruits as officers.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

16 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

He only joins for his quests. My character doesn't really like the evil companions. Or at least she doesn't feel comfortable with them around. And who can blame her? Camellia, Daeran, Wenduag and Regill...

Who wouldn't feel comfortable around a "helpful" friend, a silly little cat, an alcoholic hedonist, or a tiny fascist?

Honestly I think Lann pisses me off more than Wendaug. She may be a silly little cat, but Lann is a whiny bitch. Come to think of it, all the Lawful characters with the exception of Seelah are pretty concerning and not the type of folks you'd want around.

[InsaneCommander]

37 minutes ago, KP From Another World said:

Who wouldn't feel comfortable around a "helpful" friend, a silly little cat, an alcoholic hedonist, or a tiny fascist?

Honestly I think Lann pisses me off more than Wendaug. She may be a silly little cat, but Lann is a whiny bitch. Come to think of it, all the Lawful characters with the exception of Seelah are pretty concerning and not the type of folks you'd want around.

The worst part of Lann is the forced romance attempts. The tiny fascist is even worse if you are both Good and Azata. Camellia haven't revealed much about herself to me yet. But her alignment in the Good-Evil axis is pretty obvious. Daeran is not really that bad, especially after you learn more about him, but still not a good choice for somebody who takes the Crusader as seriously as my character. And Wenduag

Spoiler

is a cannibal with no remorse. Definitely a big NO. On my next playthrough, however, I might put her in charge of the cooking.

The good characters are a different matter, all fit well with the Commander. Nenio and Greybor are... well, neutral. Woljif is a good friend and Arueshalae is something more.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

Camellia haven't revealed much about herself to me yet.

Open your heart to her.

1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

The worst part of Lann is the forced romance attempts.

I dropped him because everyone of his lines grated my gears. Thank god my first run wasn't as a lady or she'd have to sue for sexual harassment.

1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

The good characters are a different matter, all fit well with the Commander. Nenio and Greybor are... well, neutral. Woljif is a good friend and Arueshalae is something more.

I think Greybor seems like NE but they made him regular neutral so nobody would make him an Assassin. Wolijif is at least less of a prick than Lann, which is selling him short because he's one of the more tolerable companions.

Spoilers for something obvious

Aru is the CG companion and her quest is about becoming good officially. It's pretty obvious, she seems more in line with the G than the N when you get her.

[bugarup]

KP, please don't call that disgusting taxidermy of a xenomorph a cat, if you can? That creature is so abhorrent it makes me dislike my own pets a tiny bit whenever you say "cat" when describing it. She's is the office Karen who sucks up to the boss like a shameless army of leeches whenever they can and deliberately spills coffee on the carpet right in front of the cleaning lady. Gahhhhh, I hate her more than Undertale's characters,  she's worse than Kai Leng, even.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 minutes ago, bugarup said:

KP, please don't call that disgusting taxidermy of a xenomorph a cat, if you can? That creature is so abhorrent it makes me dislike my own pets a tiny bit whenever you say "cat" when describing it. She's is the office Karen who sucks up to the boss like a shameless army of leeches whenever they can and deliberately spills coffee on the carpet right in front of the cleaning lady. Gahhhhh, I hate her more than Undertale's characters,  she's worse than Kai Leng, even.

The game calls her a "silly little cat", so blame Owlcat for that. Moreover

The line calling her that is part of her romance path, which I find to be ****ing hilarious.

[InsaneCommander]

It took me some time to discover that teleportation circles require an upgraded fort. Just built the first one and I’m waiting for a second upgrade. Archers have been upgraded too and have become Marksmen.

 

A bunch of kids appeared and wanted to join the Free Crusaders. They didn’t have a good opinion about the Abadar’s temple where they grew up. I’m disappointed Aivu didn’t announce herself when the kids asked about her. Perhaps she doesn’t like other children?

 

4 hours ago, KP From Another World said:

I dropped him because everyone of his lines grated my gears. Thank god my first run wasn't as a lady or she'd have to sue for sexual harassment.

This is not exaggerated. Lann wanted a sparring session with my character. Suddenly the diplomatic meetings with Lady Konomi don’t appear that bad.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

22 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

This is not exaggerated. Lann wanted a sparring session with my character. Suddenly the diplomatic meetings with Lady Konomi don’t appear that bad.

Lann is bad enough if you aren't playing as a lady but from what I've read he turns into a creepy stalker nice guy for the ladies. I was ready to drop him before, but based on that I think that I'm going to go with the silly little cat for the next run(s?) and see if I can sic her on Lady Konomi.

[xzar_monty]

15 hours ago, Gorth said:

Got some nice rings and stuff. Killed the grasshopper boss in a most frustrating fight. You get him down on his knees and ready to be decapacitated and... he gets back up at full health with all his summons

I hate this, btw. I think Owlcat just blatantly cheats. There is no way you can prepare for this kind of stuff unless you metagame.