How to build a Forbidden Fist Transcendent

[Haplok]

On 3/16/2022 at 10:40 AM, Jrllo said:

Thanks @Haplok. Actually I believe it was a post from you on another thread sharing your experience with a FF/Ascendant that inspired this very idea in me. The thought of zipping across the battlefield and being able to (sort of) seamlessly transition from melee burst to ranged caster + manipulator really resonated with me. Leap to a squishy, obliterate them, sling a few spells where they stood before diving back into the fray... magic!

Any more advice on gear, stats, abilities etc. from this playthrough of yours would be very welcome! 

Apologies for the late reply.

Regarding gear, most of the game it was the already mentioned Grave Calling + Kitchen Stove combo. Kitchen Stove's special is great, its Thunderous Report with monk Int has a huge cone, deals high damage and debuffs foes with Daze for a long time. And of course, instant Ascension. I like having a Priest with Salvation of Time to extend its duration.

With Seeker's Fang taking over after Seeker, Slayer, Survivor (Spider Flurry has a far smaller cone, but its often possible to get 3 enemies in it... and it's devastating - while also instantly filling your Focus) .

Other notable stuff: Helm of the White Void (+10 Accuracy is awesome - and you take advantage of it all the time with Stunning Surge/Forbidden Fist or the Cipher debuffs/CC).

Devil of Caroc Breastplate is awesome for nearly every character, offering a good balance of speed and protection, bonus immunities and bonus resources. But not exactly critical here.

 

Abilities... Parting Sorrow is important for monks, particularly FF. Stunning Blows+Surge, Swift Strikes+Flurry, Duality+Turning Wheel, Thunderous Blows, Heartbeat Drumming, Two Weapon Style. If you have the slots, Crucible of Suffering is very nice also... and Rooting Pain. Also Improved Critical (with Community Patch). Flagellant's Path was already mentioned, I liked it a lot, but I guess it depends on play style (and PL VI slots are kinda sparse).

On the Cipher side, Borrowed Instinct, Disintegration, Secret Horrors, Ectopsychic Echo, Mental Binding. Amplified Wave can be strong vs mobs. Hammering Thoughts are a good passive. Draining Whip, of course. The Empty Soul is great. Whispers of Treason and Puppet Master can be situationally very good (and kinda staple for a Cipher), I liked Ring Leader less (short range, makes combat more chaotic, many enemies can quickly flip from Charm). I also like Mind Plague a lot, its a strong debuff. Situationally also Eyestrike. Recall Agony and Psychovampiric Shield are strong vs bosses. Echoing Horror can be nice - but not exactly critical.

[Jrllo]

Amazing, thanks for this @Haplok!

I think I'm going to have to give this one a go. It looks like a wonderful combination of burst damage, sustained damage, control and mobility. Exactly what I'm looking for... AND makes good use of some very fun looking weapons in Seekers Fang and Gravecalling. Never too wild about guns, but I'm excited that they only seem to be part of the puzzle here. 

I am going to give the Forbidden Fist route a try as well. It could easily 'blunt' my edges, or help round the build out - we'll see. Logically, this is a character that wants to get in, crush a squishy and avoid getting hit while dishing out the chaos... but FF looks like it helps round things out a bit in terms of resilience and, as you point out, some interesting options for the curse. 

The Assassin/Bloodmage combo discussed has also piqued my interest too, as it appears to offer pretty much the same selling points listed above. Really, the variety offered by Wizard spells should really have made the decision for me... but for whatever reason I just can't look past ciphers at the moment. 

Yes, their spells seem to be far less flashy, you get far fewer to play with, and they playstyle is as limiting as it is engaging... but I keep coming back. I think flavour is a big part of it, for better or worse.

[foxinspace]

On 3/16/2022 at 8:30 AM, Haplok said:

I realize the OP probably made his decision regarding the Transcendant, but still I want to share my experience.

I played an Ascendant/Helwalker, close to melee, and it worked marvelously. I used Grave Calling saber a lot, killing skellies summoned by Pallegina, which both Blinded, Paralyzed, damaged enemies and gave Focus (with Kitchen Stove blunderbuss offhand for Thunderous Report instant max Focus and Ascension, huge damage and Daze opening - and faster attack speed in melee from dual-wielding).

Later on moved to Seeker's Fang rapier with its Spider's Flurry and mini-disintegrations. Used Flagellant's Path to zig-zag trough the battlefield, often one-flurry killing squishies. Was super fun. Ascendant can spam spells, which is particularly helpful with high levels ones, like Disintegration. And Ascendant's high Focus ceiling was also nice for Seeker's Fang damage scaling. Plus Ascendant gets bonus damage when Ascended (therefore almost always).

I really had a lot of fun with that character.

A FF would have less damage from might, but also be MUCH more durable. And +50% duration of hostile effects PLUS enemies unable to heal AT ALL is just awesome!

Hi @Haplok! Sorry for summoning you in this old thread, but I was very curious about your Helwalker/Ascendant "mid-range" build. I was trying to build something similar but feel extremely ability-starved. There are so many monk passives/abilities that are great, but I want to have a good selection of cipher spells (since this character is equally about casting AND doing damage with weapons). Cipher also has several passives that are must-haves, like hammering thoughts or greater focus. Which monk & cipher abilities did you pick up for this character?

Edited August 24, 2022 by foxinspace

[Fab3686]

Hi guys,

I am very interested to play a melee transcendant in a party game ( Eder Swashbuckler, Pallegina Fanatic, Xoti Celebrant and ALoth single Wizard) but it is hard for me to not play a single monk and his high levels abilities. In terms of dps (single and aoe), a transcendant can still mtach an single monk ? Or WoW will always better than Seeker's Fang rapier with its Spider's Flurry and mini cone ? A single FF is very durable, Borrowed Instinct or Psychovampiric shield is it really needed ?

[Waski]

1 hour ago, Fab3686 said:

Hi guys,

I am very interested to play a melee transcendant in a party game ( Eder Swashbuckler, Pallegina Fanatic, Xoti Celebrant and ALoth single Wizard) but it is hard for me to not play a single monk and his high levels abilities. In terms of dps (single and aoe), a transcendant can still mtach an single monk ? Or WoW will always better than Seeker's Fang rapier with its Spider's Flurry and mini cone ? A single FF is very durable, Borrowed Instinct or Psychovampiric shield is it really needed ?

WotW is better.

[Boeroer]

Speaking only about damage dealing, Seeker's Fang with a Cipher is very strong against single foes, but WotW has so much potential - as long as there's more than one enemy - that it almost always takes the trophy imo. Especially in combination with Resonant Touch.

Bit there's more than damage dealing. A Cipher/FF can charm and dominate rel. easily for a very, very long time (Lingering Echoes, +10 INT from Turning Wheel, +enfeeble) - after getting Instruments of Pain the Cipher/FF doesn't even have to get near the enemy anymore - and as I have said a lot in the past, mind control is one of the most impactful effects in the game. It's like creating a summon while at the same time taking an enemy off the battlefield. And being able to do that with replenishable resources just makes it even more impactful. So you turn three or four enemies and then even can summon two elemental monks on top (Dichotomous Soul)... And also very importantly: you can start doing impactful stuff right from lvl 1 on which adds fun imo.

I personally like Beguiler/FF most - just because weapon damage isn't needed to gain focus and that's convenient - but you can still gain focus from weapon damage. In the unmodded game Forbidden Fist ability works as a spell and doesn't generate focus, that's another reason. I even tried Psion/FF and it works very well with the Community Patch mod if you concentrate on defense more (Tuotilo's Palm and so on). I wouldn't try that combo with the unmodded game.

 

Cipher/FF is more versatile, fun to play early on and very strong overall. But if it's about pure martial prowess not much beats WotW+Resonant Touch. 

[Fab3686]

Thanks Boeroer, i will stay on a single monk, i'm addicted to WotW  It is very hard to find a subtitute of this ability in terms of dps and crowd control.

[dgray62]

IMO both SC monk and cipher/FF are incredibly fun to play. I'd recommend trying both, in multiple runs or in a single run, with a custom hireling.