213374U Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Chilloutman said: Hah, still people from south are flooding into USA. Can't tell the same about people under Russian influence which by far are trying to get out of there as soon as situation allows it I'm sorry, what's the argument you are making again? Obviously a Central American migrant from, say, El Salvador, is going to assume that their lives can't be worse in the US. What alternative do they have, though? ****ing Antarctica? Oh, wait, no. Those who can make it, actually come to Southern Europe, mostly. Of course people in former Soviet Eastern Bloc countries are going to migrate westward. The post-Soviet economic outlook isn't exactly great and neither Russia nor the EU have done much to improve matters. The fact remains that you are still presenting a false dichotomy: either Western Europe with the EU, or no Western Europe at all. Either American influence in Central and South America or... jump in the Pacific, I guess? Yeah, nah. Edited March 7, 2022 by 213374U 1 - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Chilloutman Posted March 7, 2022 Author Posted March 7, 2022 you are confusing illegal and legal migration. No-one is stopping legal migration from south America to Russia, but I guess there are not many takers I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
213374U Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) Seriously. What are you going on about? Why would someone migrate from South America to Russia when, given the ability to cross an ocean, they can stop at Southern Europe where they are more likely to get a citizenship, can understand the language, and the economic possibilities are a bit better. Not to mention... it's substantially closer geographically. Your argument right now is that no one wants to emigrate to Russia, therefore America(n imperialism) is great. You are Charlie Kirk and I claim my £5. Edited March 7, 2022 by 213374U - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Malcador Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, BruceVC said: You must be one of the few people in this world that honestly would suggest that life in the EU is not obviously better than life in Russia or life under Putin What next, is China a free society He's not suggesting that though. In any case, bit of a delay - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-07/some-eu-nations-balk-at-push-to-advance-ukraine-s-membership-bid Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
pmp10 Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 2 hours ago, 213374U said: I find it really funny that you guys can defend Ukraine's right to break free from Russian influence, while advancing the idea that Europe must bow to American imperialism, all in the same breath. Holy doublethink, Batman! Rest of Europe may do as it will. But we will bow down to that 'imperialism' precisely because it grants us security from Russia that no one else would. If we could trust Germany/France there would be no need for US involvement. 1
Darkpriest Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 Some more info on the breaking fundamentals of the markets... At this point I would be doing everything NOT to escalate and everything to de-escalate economic pressures https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/nomura-stuff-beginning-break
213374U Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 Sure, let's kowtow to this foreign power in hopes that they will protect us from the attack that advancing their interests around these parts is sure to provoke. I'm really sorry that Ukraine has been thrown to the wolves by the West, but there is no way NATO was going to risk potential nuclear escalation over a non-member, and there is no way Russia was going to allow NATO to set up shop on their doorstep. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Chilloutman Posted March 7, 2022 Author Posted March 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, 213374U said: Sure, let's kowtow to this foreign power in hopes that they will protect us from the attack that advancing their interests around these parts is sure to provoke. I'm really sorry that Ukraine has been thrown to the wolves by the West, but there is no way NATO was going to risk potential nuclear escalation over a non-member, and there is no way Russia was going to allow NATO to set up shop on their doorstep. like in Litva for example? NATO already have shop at their doorstep I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
Chilloutman Posted March 7, 2022 Author Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, 213374U said: Seriously. What are you going on about? Why would someone migrate from South America to Russia when, given the ability to cross an ocean, they can stop at Southern Europe where they are more likely to get a citizenship, can understand the language, and the economic possibilities are a bit better. Not to mention... it's substantially closer geographically. Your argument right now is that no one wants to emigrate to Russia, therefore America(n imperialism) is great. You are Charlie Kirk and I claim my £5. You mention EU being puppet of US so I don't see your point. Yeah Europe and USA are basically same on the scale of livable country. Yeah no one wants to go to Russia. I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
213374U Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 Yep. Exactly like Latvia. Only Latvia's border with Russia is only 200 km long and it'd be a logistical nightmare to use Latvia as springboard in an attack on Russia. Ukraine on the other hand has been used historically exactly as that, repeatedly. I figure some people do learn from history, after all. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
213374U Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, Chilloutman said: You mention EU being puppet of US so I don't see your point. Yeah Europe and USA are basically same on the scale of livable country. Yeah no one wants to go to Russia. The point is that Europe doesn't need to choose between being America's bitch and crumbling under the onslaught of Russian tank regiments, and hasn't had to since at least 1991. And yet... here we are. Yes, no one wants to go to Russia. What I'm saying is that the binary choice you are presenting between one master or another is false. 2 - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Zoraptor Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 4 hours ago, Mamoulian War said: For a start the real Chechens, not the Kadyrov bootlickers might probably start something which might sparkle something bigger... Maybe you'll get really lucky and there will be another Beslan or Moscow Theatre siege from the real Chechens? Let's not forget what the western approved/ sanitised Chechens actually stood for in cheerleading anything that might hurt Russia, hmm. (My personal favourite Chechen moment was notorious ISIS' 'Minister of Defence' Omar al-Shishani constantly being described as a Russian Chechen in the press, when he was from... Georgia. And not even a refugee, born and bred Georgian Chechen with no Russian connection at all) 3 hours ago, Mamoulian War said: If this is true, "Pics or it didn't happen" see also Ghost of Kiev or Marco Rubio's 2 Russian paratroop transport planes being shot down. 2 hours ago, kanisatha said: I have a theory about this. I do not believe the Russians are serious about allowing civilians to leave eastern Ukraine because, for all the nonsense-talk from them, the real reason they want eastern Ukraine is to take control of that population for Russia. The single biggest threat to Russia's future power is domestic demographics. Their population is in steep decline and has been for over 20 years. They desperately need people. But of course given their ultra-nationalism, they only want ethnic Russians. This war is less about a land-grab and much more about a population-grab. So they cannot afford to allow people in eastern Ukraine to leave. And let's be honest. The people fleeing the Russians are not just Ukrainians. Plenty of very credible reports that the ethnic Russians in these areas (Kherson for example) are openly siding with Ukraine and stating very categorically they do not want to live under Putin's rule. Russia has the 4th most immigrants in the world. It also hadn't had declining population for a decade up to covid (and only very slight decline for the 5 years prior to that). Their population has been stable for almost all the 2000s Ukraine's population has declined at a pretty steady -0.5% practically since the USSR broke up. The only thing about it arguably declining more was its relative GDP. 16 minutes ago, 213374U said: ..and there is no way Russia was going to allow NATO to set up shop on their doorstep. Quite apart from the proximity to two of the most strategically important Russian cities in Smolensk and Rostov that was especially true after the US reneged on INF. Ukraine would make a great base for some nuclear capable cruise missiles. (Yes reflexive knee jerkers, I know the US doesn't have any nuke cruise missiles and the warheads that were sitting in storage a decade+ after the INF was signed may have actually been disposed of at some point. I'm sure they're as unprepared for arming tomahawks with nukes as they were for having land based tomahawks after not having the missiles or software- per Aegis Ashore not violating INF in the first place, which it most definitely did- for... a whole week after leaving the agreement?)
Malcador Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/britain-may-ease-immigration-rules-ukrainian-refugees-sun-2022-03-07/ Well, waving the flag will help I guess. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Sarex Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, pmp10 said: Rest of Europe may do as it will. But we will bow down to that 'imperialism' precisely because it grants us security from Russia that no one else would. If we could trust Germany/France there would be no need for US involvement. So once big bad Russia is gone, then it will be China, then India, then Pakistan, then Iran and down the line we go. No matter that over 2/3 of the world population are the bad guys. "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
Chilloutman Posted March 7, 2022 Author Posted March 7, 2022 47 minutes ago, 213374U said: The point is that Europe doesn't need to choose between being America's bitch and crumbling under the onslaught of Russian tank regiments, and hasn't had to since at least 1991. And yet... here we are. Yes, no one wants to go to Russia. What I'm saying is that the binary choice you are presenting between one master or another is false. Well German certainly tried few years back, I did like it TBH I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
ComradeYellow Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article259151443.html First we sanction, bankrupt, and condemn you to oblivion, now we want to talk you into turning on Putin cos we need oil. Pwetty pwease?
Darkpriest Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 If there isn't some de-escalation in economic sanctions coming up now, as in, no more new ones being announced and some calmness introduced by decision makers, then expect hard crash very soon... https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/carnage-everywhere-market-begins-break 2008 will be peanuts...
Sarex Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 US threatened China if they don't sanction Russia, publicly. That will go over well. "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
Sarex Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) To put things in to perspective. https://www.heritage.org/europe/report/ground-troop-scenarios-yugoslavia-what-would-they-take edit: Keep in mind that they tried scenario 5, with major NATO support and failed spectacularly. Edited March 7, 2022 by Sarex "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
ComradeYellow Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 3 hours ago, 213374U said: The point is that Europe doesn't need to choose between being America's bitch and crumbling under the onslaught of Russian tank regiments, and hasn't had to since at least 1991. And yet... here we are. Just a heads up, the US government will go to great lengths to stop an independent Europe because they would see it as contrary to US interests and could potentially bolster Americas brown and yellow adversaries. I agree and all but America doesn't like partners, it likes its bitches unfortunately and would take some kind of massive internal strife to cede its position. EU are still heftily in "appeasement* mode towards US.
Malcador Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 Another Russian General killed, apparently. 1 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Zoraptor Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 Anyone named V(itali) Gerasimov is going to be a great target for some propaganda since the Army Chief of Staff is V(aleri) Gerasimov. Especially when he's a army Chief of Staff- guess which one shows up in a search. Ultimately all the sources resolve to intercepts, from the Ukraine MoD. Which I believe still has that DCS footage up, and claimed as genuine. Guess it depends on whether he turns up on a video laughing at the rumours of his death like that Chechen general killed a week ago did. Probably not, since we're getting next to nothing from Russia officially. 1 hour ago, ComradeYellow said: First we sanction, bankrupt, and condemn you to oblivion, now we want to talk you into turning on Putin cos we need oil. Pwetty pwease? There are also consistent rumours about the new Iran deal/ JCPOA being signed imminently. Believe it when it happens, but the rumours are that it would be weaker towards Iran than the original JCPOA- which already had a lot of people complaining about it being too soft.
rjshae Posted March 7, 2022 Posted March 7, 2022 Russia trying to recruit Syrians to fight in Ukraine, says Pentagon Quote Russia has been trying to recruit Syrians to fight in Ukraine to bolster Moscow’s flagging invasion, according to the Pentagon. A senior US defence official said it was unclear how many Syrians Vladimir Putin is seeking to recruit, but said “we find it noteworthy that he believes he needs to rely on foreign fighters”. The official added there was no evidence of Syrian fighters having arrived in Ukraine so far. "Our list of allies grows thin..." "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."
Darkpriest Posted March 8, 2022 Posted March 8, 2022 Some opinion on the 'diplomats' https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/russia-s-ukraine-invasion-may-have-been-preventable-n1290831
pmp10 Posted March 8, 2022 Posted March 8, 2022 9 hours ago, Sarex said: So once big bad Russia is gone, then it will be China, then India, then Pakistan, then Iran and down the line we go. No matter that over 2/3 of the world population are the bad guys. Russia is not going anywhere. Chinas, Irans, Indias and Pakistans might be a problem from the perspective of a global superpower. For eastern Europe it will be just Russia. 1
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