The All Things Political Topic - Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

Ah, hell, what am I doing, never mind.

I have no idea what you saying?

But something else, when people say " the Russian intervention into Syria   " the legitimate issue is not the intervention into Syria. This is legal because they were invited by Assad. Its the same as the numerous military  bases the US has throughout the ME and the French military presence in Africa, its fine if you invited 

What people are talking about is what Russia did within Syria and that includes Aleppo

 

[rjshae]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

And the killing of thousands of civilians by Russia by their bombing campaign in Aleppo is that also legal?

The Fourth Geneva Convention disallows bombings that are indiscriminate or in the form of reprisals against civilians.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/ihl/WebART/470-750065

I believe Russia is a signatory. The question then is whether the Aleppo bombings violate those accords. If there were military targets in the bombed locations, then it might be found legal, if inhumane.

[BruceVC]

26 minutes ago, rjshae said:

The Fourth Geneva Convention disallows bombings that are indiscriminate or in the form of reprisals against civilians.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/ihl/WebART/470-750065

I believe Russia is a signatory. The question then is whether the Aleppo bombings violate those accords. If there were military targets in the bombed locations, then it might be found legal, if inhumane.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/12/01/russia/syria-war-crimes-month-bombing-aleppo

There are many examples of civilian deaths in Aleppo due to the Russian bombing campaign including the targeting of hospitals which I doubt would be classified as legitimate military targets?

But saying all that I am not  opposed to the actual intervention  of Russia in the Syrian conflict because someone had  to intervene and it wasnt going to be Western countries after the original UNSC veto by China and Russia back in 2011 to even condemn Assads brutality around refusing to make any Democrat changes to his  government and  be more inclusive. Exactly like Gaddafi his response to the protestors of the Arab Spring was to unleash the full might of his security forces and wipe them out  

But I am opposed to how Russia  conducted themselves militarily along with the Syrian forces, I think I posted this link before. Aleppo use to be a city of 2 million people. Take a look at these photos

https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2016/sep/29/devastation-in-aleppo-syria-in-pictures

 

[rjshae]

Ivermectin does not prevent severe COVID-19, study finds

Quote

 

Treatment with the dewormer drug ivermectin failed to prevent patients with mild to moderate COVID-19 from progressing to serious illness, a study published Friday by JAMA Internal Medicine found. Of 241 patients in the study with mild to moderate symptoms treated with the medication, 52, or 22% developed severe COVID-19, the data showed. Meanwhile, 43 of 249 patients, or 17%, who received "standard" treatment, including corticosteroids and, in a handful of cases, other experimental drugs, progressed to serious illness from the virus, the researchers said.

"Essentially, our study findings have dismissed the notion of ivermectin being a 'miracle drug' against COVID-19," study co-author Dr. Steven Chee Loon Lim told UPI in an email.

 

This isn't really a surprise as we've seen similar study results before. It's still not clear to me why the right became all "religious" (in the dogmatic sense) about this drug.

[Malcador]

Own the libs, I guess.

[BruceVC]

29 minutes ago, rjshae said:

Ivermectin does not prevent severe COVID-19, study finds

This isn't really a surprise as we've seen similar study results before. It's still not clear to me why the right became all "religious" (in the dogmatic sense) about this drug.

Small groups of people ranted and raved in SA so much about Ivermectin it was  allowed to be prescribed to treat  Corvid despite having NO real  benefit for treating Covid. But we have a thriving black market so it was available anyway even if our health authorities had banned its usage for the virus 

https://mg.co.za/coronavirus-essentials/2021-11-09-how-south-africas-ivermectin-use-slips-through-the-cracks/

[ComradeYellow]

https://multipolarista.com/2022/02/14/canada-brazil-trucker-protests-right-wing/

I simply don't know what to believe anymore.  We live in a schizophrenic time.  Probably best to just walk away.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, ComradeYellow said:

https://multipolarista.com/2022/02/14/canada-brazil-trucker-protests-right-wing/

I simply don't know what to believe anymore.  We live in a schizophrenic time.  Probably best to just walk away.

It reeks of hyperbole and fake news so its good to question this type of thing. I am more than happy to assess anything you worried may be false. Just let me know 

 

[Zoraptor]

5 hours ago, rjshae said:

The Fourth Geneva Convention disallows bombings that are indiscriminate or in the form of reprisals against civilians.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/ihl/WebART/470-750065

I believe Russia is a signatory. The question then is whether the Aleppo bombings violate those accords. If there were military targets in the bombed locations, then it might be found legal, if inhumane.

Yep, though that's a different issue to the question of the legality of the intervention itself.

And, since I have the figures at hand, and it rather illustrates the point...

Civilian casualties, Battle of Aleppo, population ~2.2mn, 2016 (a little less than 12 months): ~3500 (all sides, for those specifically attributed it's ~40/60 split rebel caused/ government (inc Russian) caused, but I've included all of them)

Civilian casualties, Battle of Mosul, population ~2mn, 2016-7, 9 months: 6000-10,000, With outliers of 2500 and 40,000 (which was also the latest one, and only one to include actual bodies actually recovered as a basis of the estimate)

Civilian casualties, Battle of Raqqa, population ~400k, 2017, 4 months: ~1700

The higher estimate for civilian casualties in Mosul is greater than the death toll (including all combatants) in the entirety of Aleppo province (pop: just under 5mn), over the course of the Syrian Civil War from 2012-2018. You wouldn't know that going by the media coverage and governmental presentations made about the two though. When you take populations and length of time into account the 'indiscriminate' campaign actually caused by far the fewest casualties. Of course, the situations aren't directly equivalent (and can't be), but still, shows a pattern of demonisation that makes it hard to take claims of western good intentions at face value.

And in order to be actual whataboutism the point made has to be irrelevant. If someone complains about being punched and the response is "but you punched the guy ten seconds earlier" then that person is not practising whataboutism, no matter how much the first person might shout it. Him punching the guy first is certainly relevant to him getting punched back no matter how much he might like the conversation to be about his unique and unjustified suffering and that alone.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Zoraptor

[rjshae]

11 hours ago, Malcador said:

Own the libs, I guess.

They took a dewormer to own the libs. Huh. Something to tell their grandkids, I suppose.

[Chairchucker]

On 2/18/2022 at 5:42 PM, BruceVC said:

Do you sometimes enjoy debates and discussions around topics related to wokeness, SJ and SJWism

~

Let me know if you want to have these types of debates, an example of one type of debate I enjoy is the Whoopi Goldberg comments around the Holocaust. Thats an example of what I mean

But if we are going to have these debates can I ask for 2 important " rules "

• its a debate so we going to have different opinions and thats expected and the intention is to convince the other person your point is correct. Like you pointed out how triggered is inappropriate 
• its not personal so no one  should get offended and we mustnt be offensive when we make our points 

 

'Enjoy' is not necessarily the word I'd use. Maybe more 'willing to engage'.

 

Difficult to fully articulate my position on this, It's Complicated I guess. As a straight CIS white man* it would be pretty easy for me to see these issues as abstract ones I guess, that can be dispassionately discussed as if it was a conversation about which sporting team is the best**. But I guess I'm also aware that for people who fit into any one of dozens of minority groups, (racial, sexual identity, disability, whatever) these issues are less abstract; generally speaking in disagreements on the subject of social justice, my perception is that there is a divide between people whose priority is being kind and respectful towards members of groups who have been historically marginalised, abused and discriminated against, and people who think that first group should be mocked for that priority. It will probably not surprise you to hear that the overwhelming majority of times I see such discussions, I am completely on the side of the first group, and utterly despise the attitudes of the second group.

 

My perception from the way you've phrased this is that you would like for any discussions on this subject to be completely dispassionate and for all of us to be completely detached and intellectual about the process. Can't really promise that, sorry.

 

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLMgbV3uaz8

**lol

[BruceVC]

34 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

'Enjoy' is not necessarily the word I'd use. Maybe more 'willing to engage'.

 

Difficult to fully articulate my position on this, It's Complicated I guess. As a straight CIS white man* it would be pretty easy for me to see these issues as abstract ones I guess, that can be dispassionately discussed as if it was a conversation about which sporting team is the best**. But I guess I'm also aware that for people who fit into any one of dozens of minority groups, (racial, sexual identity, disability, whatever) these issues are less abstract; generally speaking in disagreements on the subject of social justice, my perception is that there is a divide between people whose priority is being kind and respectful towards members of groups who have been historically marginalised, abused and discriminated against, and people who think that first group should be mocked for that priority. It will probably not surprise you to hear that the overwhelming majority of times I see such discussions, I am completely on the side of the first group, and utterly despise the attitudes of the second group.

 

My perception from the way you've phrased this is that you would like for any discussions on this subject to be completely dispassionate and for all of us to be completely detached and intellectual about the process. Can't really promise that, sorry.

 

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLMgbV3uaz8

**lol

I hear you and I understand you will engage how you want whether its intellectually or emotionally because both matter and both will be part of our views on these topics 

And it wont be all the time from my side, its just you have demonstrated an interest in these topics already so I was hoping you will want to engage. For example you have 

• commented on what you define as white, male privlidege in Oz
• you asked about CRT
• you had an opinion on Whoopi Goldberg
• you have a view on structural racism in our modern societies 
• you shared that link about the Oz SAS soldier 

So thats what I mean when I said you enjoy these debates but its probably better to say you have an interest and I have learnt things from you already. For example I didnt know what CIS male means or what triggered really  means and I researched it after reading your posts so its been been informative already 

But as I said to Gothfuscious the most important  thing about these debates is a genuine interest in the topics. And most people dont particularly want to engage on these topics in too much detail and thats also fine  

Lets chat in the future about this 

[Darkpriest]

So Russians are staying past the 20th in Belarus and there seems to be more insecurity around Donesk area. 

To be honest, I'm a bit surprised, as this seems counter productive. 

I still think that Russians invading full scale Ukraine is a science fiction area, but it seems that Putin wants to strong-arm Ukraine into Minsk accords and continuation of that path, which ultimately would have the two areas separate from Ukraine. 

I'm just surprised Putin would go this escalation route right now, when he had EU in disagreements, US soon to be collapsing on economy and and a lot of attention was going towards China, and not Russia. 

I understand him not wanting Ukraine in NATO, and another border with NATO near critical area, which could cut-off black sea fleet base etc. I guess this actually might be worth fighting for in his mind and utilizing military power, especially since UK and US ships have been frequent visitors to that area and were not recognizing waters near crimea as Russias territorial waters. 

 

[Darkpriest]

Ok, so it seems Russians finally got what they wanted, trilateral talks of Russia, France and Ukraine plus oversight from Germans. Lavrov already planned bilateral talks with Fench counterpart later in the week. 

Important part, no US and no UK in these talks, and both strong EU countries with significant interest in making sure that they can keep trades with Russians. They will strong arm Zelensky to go back and have an agreement with separatists. 

Also important fact is that China fully supports Russia in getting Minsk accords implemented, and this most likely means some backstage economic pressure on Germany and France from China. 

 

This trilateral talk also gives a nice chance for France and Germany to payback to UK and US for mistreatments (Brexit and US humiliating Germany over Nordstream2 amd France over submarine contract with Australia) 

[HoonDing]

Can't Putin sama invade already? He's making the West look bad.

[Darkpriest]

Just now, HoonDing said:

Can't Putin sama invade already? He's making the West look bad.

He wants US admin look like incompetent ****s. Funnily enough, they simply are incompetent... 

[BruceVC]

5 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

He wants US admin look like incompetent ****s. Funnily enough, they simply are incompetent... 

Dark dont you believe in the principles of all Constitutional Democracy's   like the US? For example dont you believe in  things like a free media, freedom of speech, independent courts, free and fair elections and your government being accountable? 

Would you prefer that Poland was an autocratic state like Russia?

[Malcador]

Ottawa finally cleared out of most of the Braveheart chanters. Watching streams of this has been interesting, is nice to see things on the ground, even if the streamers are moronic whores for the most part.  Watched a brilliant bit of dialogue last night with one talking about this is just like how Hitler did things, masks are actually killing people, seatbelts don't save lives and how the NWO is real.  Good to know Canadians are as moronic as everywhere else in the world.

And with this over, American media will resume forgetting Canada exists

[BruceVC]

7 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Ottawa finally cleared out of most of the Braveheart chanters. Watching streams of this has been interesting, is nice to see things on the ground, even if the streamers are moronic whores for the most part.  Watched a brilliant bit of dialogue last night with one talking about this is just like how Hitler did things, masks are actually killing people, seatbelts don't save lives and how the NWO is real.  Good to know Canadians are as moronic as everywhere else in the world.

And with this over, American media will resume forgetting Canada exists

Malc it was inevitable that people were arrested. Violent protests and people breaking the law during protests should never be accepted because it just emboldens people to continue breaking the law

Im glad the illegal Canadian trucker protests are ending  

[Malcador]

Well, have seen violent. Was still funny as they cleared a homeless encampment or two here and it was all very hands on with the beatings, G20 was the same deal.  They did things the way they should always do these things.  Is funny to see these darling WASP types be shocked to find out stuff like : riot cops will shove you, or that you may be pepper sprayed.  Whining as if they got a taste of brutality or something.

If they had decided to stay in hotels, come down and march all day then go home, I doubt anything would have happened

 

[BruceVC]

10 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Well, have seen violent. Was still funny as they cleared a homeless encampment or two here and it was all very hands on with the beatings, G20 was the same deal.  They did things the way they should always do these things.  Is funny to see these darling WASP types be shocked to find out stuff like : riot cops will shove you, or that you may be pepper sprayed.  Whining as if they got a taste of brutality or something.

If they had decided to stay in hotels, come down and march all day then go home, I doubt anything would have happened

 

I wonder what people think the police are suppose to do when you blocking highways, hurting livelihoods and harming the economy for days on end and you making unreasonable demands that the federal government cant agree to anyway ?

 

[rjshae]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Ottawa finally cleared out of most of the Braveheart chanters. Watching streams of this has been interesting, is nice to see things on the ground, even if the streamers are moronic whores for the most part.  Watched a brilliant bit of dialogue last night with one talking about this is just like how Hitler did things, masks are actually killing people, seatbelts don't save lives and how the NWO is real.  Good to know Canadians are as moronic as everywhere else in the world.

And with this over, American media will resume forgetting Canada exists

Well Faux News is available in Canada, so they may be having some of the same irrational influence up there. Besides, everybody can join the same forums on the net.

[Darkpriest]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Dark dont you believe in the principles of all Constitutional Democracy's   like the US? For example dont you believe in  things like a free media, freedom of speech, independent courts, free and fair elections and your government being accountable? 

Would you prefer that Poland was an autocratic state like Russia?

Where does it even tie to what I said? 

To be honest, I'm more in favor to the original concept of democracy from the ancient greece, than the modern abomination, especially in the US...

To vote, you should have a decent education, gathered a certain level of wealth and have had a service record in your cointrie's military. To be able to be a candidate to some post, you should have some experience in either academic studies as a tutor or business, as n acomplished specialist in some field, in which you want to govern. 

I hate ignorant zealots, that have zero concepts of rational thinking, pragmatism and logic, and cannot do a proper math or do not know where countries are. 

Unfortunately the modern democracy became an impotent abomination which is abused by more and more ideological extremists from left and right side, and US is the worst in this... 

Looking at the last 30 years it seems the more autocratic China made the most progress and is becoming the top dog on the world stage. 

I'd rather have a better version of representative democracy, but one can only dream. The current version just translates to the rule of stupid, as the stupid people are most populous in society, hence they have most votes and can vote in various cretins into positions of power. 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Darkpriest

[Chairchucker]

2 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

To vote, you should have a decent education, gathered a certain level of wealth and have had a service record in your cointrie's military. To be able to be a candidate to some post, you should have some experience in either academic studies as a tutor or business, as n acomplished specialist in some field, in which you want to govern.

Interesting. Education and wealth would probably be good caveats if you wanted, hypothetically, to explicitly discriminate against people of colour and women. The military caveat is a great way to discriminate against progressive politics. Over all, this would be a horrific example of voter suppression, so good job thinking of worse policies than the ones they're already implementing I guess.

[BruceVC]

6 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

Where does it even tie to what I said? 

To be honest, I'm more in favor to the original concept of democracy from the ancient greece, than the modern abomination, especially in the US...

To vote, you should have a decent education, gathered a certain level of wealth and have had a service record in your cointrie's military. To be able to be a candidate to some post, you should have some experience in either academic studies as a tutor or business, as n acomplished specialist in some field, in which you want to govern. 

I hate ignorant zealots, that have zero concepts of rational thinking, pragmatism and logic, and cannot do a proper math or do not know where countries are. 

Unfortunately the modern democracy became an impotent abomination which is abused by more and more ideological extremists from left and right side, and US is the worst in this... 

Looking at the last 30 years it seems the more autocratic China made the most progress and is becoming the top dog on the world stage. 

I'd rather have a better version of representative democracy, but one can only dream. The current version just translates to the rule of stupid, as the stupid people are most populous in society, hence they have most votes and can vote in various cretins into positions of power. 

 

It wasnt related to your post, I am asking if you prefer autocratic states to Constitutional Democracies? Some people  dont care about the points I mentioned

And China is an excellent example of this. If you prepared to sacrifice things like freedom of speech, human rights and the right to vote you can achieve a strong economy. Thats one way of doing it

But I do agree people should share the value system of the country they live in and, for example, support their military but I also know this is complicated and you cant force people to demonstrate this type of patriotism  because it can be argued Constitutionally  you dont have to for various reasons which I know people will  mention 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by BruceVC