Need advise on sneaky assassin builds

[Viryu]

Topic. I haven't touched rogues at all before and felt like playing focusing on stealth kills. I did notice that it's really hard to get into melee range without detection though, how viable would that be in the long run?

Is it possible to solo?

Are daggers viable?

From what I read blunderbuss doesn't work well with assassin bonuses, what about arquebus or pistols, shoot something hide, repeat.

I'm not planning on doing mega bosses on this run, though most likely dlc content. From the builds I saw most recommended were SC Assassin for vanishing strike, Assassin/Paladin for brand enemy, Assassin/Tactician for resource management, and Assassin/Blood Mage for CC (this one would be more party oriented I think, though do the bonuses apply to damaging spells?). How would you rate those in terms of fun factor and staying in stealth?

[dgray62]

Rogues are easy to solo due to their ability to go invisible, and for a solo run assassin is the natural class to pick, since you get the amazing boost to attacks made from stealth. There have been many builds posted, such as Not So Clever Hound's Soul Sniper build. You will likely want to use an arquebus for a ranged assassin. Assassin/blood mage is great too. The assassin bonus does apply to spells provided that they are fast acting like fireball. They don't apply to spells with long delays (like delayed fireball), and the bonus will only apply to the first pulse I believe for pulsing spells like Chillfog.

[Boeroer]

Rogue can solo almost all encounters in the game. Only Megabosses and Water Dragon and SSS fights are complicated (because not enough space to retreat so combat can stop). For invisibility shenanigans I prefer Assassin bc. the ACC bonus is great.

I played Assassin/Bleak Walker (to combine Gouging Strike, Brand Enemy and Lover's Enbrace "endless" damage over time effects) and it's rel. easy to win almost anything by just sneak to an enemy (Bounding Boots help a ton to reach any enemy undetected), apply some DoTs, turn invisible, retreat out of sight and wait until the enemy's dead.

But you can also rush in as let's say a Streetfighter, become flanked, dish out incredible dmg until you are nearly dead and then just vanish and retreat until you're back in business again.  

Edited February 9, 2022 by Boeroer

[Viryu]

Which skills should I use for invisibility, shadowing beyond or smoke veil or both? Are they bugged? I read that smoke veil breaks invisibility too easily if AI starts an action and you change it, or shadowing beyond not working with arquebuses, fod, etc.

[dgray62]

I generally use smoke veil, mainly because its cost was reduced to one guile in the Balance Polishing mod. It works fine, although I always keep the AI off for my main character, since I like to micromanage. I could see that the AI would pose a problem here.

[Kaylon]

You don't want to go into melee when you do stealth kills. After becoming invisible you have just a few seconds before the combat ends and then you become visible again.  And if that happens near the enemies then you become a sitting duck and get clobbered to death.

Shadowing Beyond is too expensive and I think it breaks if you're using dots. You should use just Smoke Veil.

[Viryu]

I'm on PS5, so no mods for me.

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Kaylon said:

You don't want to go into melee when you do stealth kills. After becoming invisible you have just a few seconds before the combat ends and then you become visible again.

That is not the case when you put a DoT effect on the enemy. Usually combat won't end until the DoT runs out or the enemy dies. 

So it's totally safe to attack in melee (e.g. with Lover's Embrace) with Gouging Strike for example and then use Smoke Veil and just walk away, out of sight.

It is less hassle to use a ranged weapon though.  

[Boeroer]

On 2/9/2022 at 7:39 PM, Kaylon said:

Shadowing Beyond is too expensive and I think it breaks if you're using dots. You should use just Smoke Veil.

Shadowing Beyond is too expensive, but it doesn't break on DoTs anymore (was fixed with a patch). The Priest of Skaen uses a copy of the original Shadowing Beyond. That version still breaks on DoTs unfortunately.

I agree that one should use Smoke Veil instead. Earlier and less expensive.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Boeroer

[Viryu]

That sweet, sweet cheese. Jadaferlas basically bled to death without ever doing anything. 

How would you go on with maximizing Lover's Embrace and Gouging Strike's damage?

[Boeroer]

You would max MIG. There's not much else you can do - except adding Brand Enemy on top of those two with a Paladin. Although that wouldn't hve done much against that dragon...   

[Kaylon]

2 hours ago, Viryu said:

That sweet, sweet cheese. Jadaferlas basically bled to death without ever doing anything. 

How would you go on with maximizing Lover's Embrace and Gouging Strike's damage?

Besides might you have also Harley pet, High Harbinger's Robes, Sash of Judgment, Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak (if you stay invisible), Infamous Captain ability and probably a few consumables. And PL increase should affect at least Gouging Strike.

[Porkchopsandwiches247]

How well does a Priest of Skaen pair with an Assassin? I know they have some invisibility related spells as bonuses, so they should be able to use the Assassin passive more frequently.

But after checking thelee’s always incredibly informative faq, looks like those Skaen invisibility spells would only be able to apply the Assassin passive to attacks and not the spells after the first one from stealth. Priest of Skaen doesnt have a huge amount of AoE spell nukes, but Pillar of Holy or Shining Beacon should be pretty strong opening moves, and then I could unload arquebus shots or maybe twohanders with strong on-crit  effects out of invisibility from that point on.

Also how do a Priest’s seals work with Assassinate and invisibility? Can you just spam them while invisible and constantly get big hits? That could be pretty fun.

[Boeroer]

Skaen's Shadowig Beyond is a copy of the original, unpatched Rogue ability of the same name. This means that it will break on DoT ticks unfortunately while the Rogue's version will not (anymore - after patching).

But you can totally use it to get the Assassinate ACC, PEN and crit-dmg bonus for direct damage spells and the ACC bonus for DoTs.

Seals are hazard spells. Harards are handled as separate entities (in some ways a bit like summons if you will). They do not profit from assasinate etc. Walls and Seals (and traps) do work that way. Unless you meant Sigil spells - they work just fine with assassinate - but as all pulsing spells only the first pulse will profit.  

[Porkchopsandwiches247]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Skaen's Shadowig Beyond is a copy of the original, unpatched Rogue ability of the same name. This means that it will break on DoT ticks unfortunately while the Rogue's version will not (anymore - after patching).

But you can totally use it to get the Assassinate ACC, PEN and crit-dmg bonus for direct damage spells and the ACC bonus for DoTs.

Seals are hazard spells. Harards are handled as separate entities (in some ways a bit like summons if you will). They do not profit from assasinate etc. Walls and Seals (and traps) do work that way. Unless you meant Sigil spells - they work just fine with assassinate - but as all pulsing spells only the first pulse will profit.  

Thats a shame, appreciate the info. Was indeed talking about seals.

Sounds like even a Priest of Magran might benefit a lot from it in that case, with their instant damage spells + significant Fire PL bonuses they can get from equipment. 

[Haplok]

Shadowing Beyond is great in Turn Based mode though - as its a Free Action there.

[Viryu]

From what I've observed:

Use only Shadowing Beyond when you want to cheese Lover's Embrace and Gouging Strikes, it guarantees that enemies will lose aggro. With Veil I often had problems where enemies would still run after me.

For regular combat Smoke Veil is enough.

Generally after a playthrough with SC Assassin, it's fun. I didn't have the patience to get to tier 9, since the game crashes now way too often on PS5, but I think SC is the way to go if you don't plan on doing everything.

Dual daggers were climatic and immersive, though I felt the weapon choices were lacking for regular combat. As long as the enemy is not pierce immune, Rust's Poignard and Stalker's Patience was a blast and obtainable decently early. Great combo with a Beguiler in a party as well, both complement each other greatly. It helps a lot if you can get Gipo Prudensco with disengagement immunity and high stride, I could be everywhere at once, especially fun during boarding.

Flow of combat is generally sneaking and cheesing early game, and after getting your gear and levels, it turns into quick skirmishes, Stalker's spear is an amazing offhand weapon.

[Boeroer]

18 minutes ago, Viryu said:

Use only Shadowing Beyond when you want to cheese Lover's Embrace and Gouging Strikes, it guarantees that enemies will lose aggro. With Veil I often had problems where enemies would still run after me.

Played a solo Assassin/Paladin through the whole game including DLCs and never had that problem once - but I'm on PC and not console, so maybe that's why. I didn't even pick Shadowing Beyond because it has zero benefit over Smoke Veil when you are using the hit, vanish, run & hide tactic. Mainly because recovery (which Smoke Veil has and Shadowing Beyond hasn't) doesn't matter when you just run away out of sight before the invisibility ends.