Any other interesting builds I'm missing?

[crdvis16]

I'm getting ready for one last playthrough (gotta side with Rautai this time) and was wondering if there were any other interesting builds I'm missing.  Here's what I've already done (usually by modding class/subclass options for companions):

Transmuter/Tactician (gather up with Eora then chillfog/combustion wounds/etc)

Unbroken/Illusionist (terrify+disengagement attacks)

Woedica (mass debuffs, sort of like a Beguiler)

Blackjacket/Streetfighter (blunder modal for flanked then quick switch to melee, didn't work quite as well with BPM and nerfed blunder modal )

Unbroken/Trickster (maximum deflection and riposte/offensive parry)

Wael (priest tank!)

Ancient (Thicket Green and all plant/beast spells)

Shifter/Conjuror (conjuror self buffs then melee in shifted form)

Evoker/Assassin (Assassinate with damage spells)

Beckoner/Berserker (confuse+summoned skellies and then kill them with carnage/Amra to trip bloodthirst/lust)

Helwalker/Ghostheart (pretty simple ranged DPS)

Gunhawk/Assassin (idea was to smoke veil+attack and repeat but it turns out this is only really worthwhile if it gets you out of underpen)

Stalker (melee ranger with high accuracy and on-crit items, didn't seem very strong tbh but maybe I needed some stronger item synergy with it)

Gunhawk/Cipher (takedown+disintegrate)

Forbidden Fist (no gimmick really, just a tank/dps hybrid)

Shattered Pillar (scordeo weapons for blade cascade, speed boosts, and both hit during WotW into Resonent Touch)

Nalpazca (wound generation keeps up with non-stop blade turning for a damage reflecting tank)

Bleakwalker (DPS Paladin, no real gimmick beyond that and was kind of underwhelming.  I don't love Paladin as a class)

Beckoner/Goldpact (tank focusing on high armor to cause underpen)

Enchanter/Bellower (started as a tank build with some spike damage from Bellower but probably would been better as SC Bellower tbh)

Fury/Helwalker (high Int/Might for long range Elemental Druid spells)

Berserker/Devoted (Voulge melee build)

Soulblade/Furyshaper (two subclasses I had not played so combined then and it turned out well.  Barbarian side helps generate focus fast and big hits with Soulblade get kills which synergize with Barbarian.  The totems were a nice side bonus and were pretty strong IMO)

Ascendent (weapons with per rest abilities/spells and extra weapon slots to fill focus fast)

Psion (cipher support!  Use some abilities I've overlooked in the past, like mindweb)

Lifegiver/Troubadour (healer focus)

Corpse Eater (food bonuses from kith meat or Forbidden pies were nice.  Really just used this for the on-death item build with Vengeful Defeat)

Rogue/Skald (melee crits beget offensive invocations)

Gaun/Streetfighter (Frontliner that retreats to the backlines to shoot/cast once bloodied.  Was hard to pull off most of the time)

Helwalker/Streetfighter (mortification to self damage into bloodied and then Rogue abilities using ranged weapon, preferably one that has multiple projectiles or AoE to spread afflictions)

Beguiler/Trickster (never really got this build, feel like SC beguiler would have been better)

Psion/Berath (support build.  Cast Priest buffs/debuffs then spam cipher support spells with the built up focus pool.  Worked really well)

Assassin (normal melee stealth attacker)

Arcane Archer (straightforward Eora->Web->Fireball or Death nuke.  Felt strong)

I think I've also done most of the normal subclasses, too (like Vatnir's Rymrgand priest, Xoti's Gaun/Reaper, Tekehu's storm/water unique classes, etc etc).

There are probably some item synergies I haven't explored yet or interesting subclasses or combos?  Maybe even ones that include lesser used abilities or tactics?  I try to stay away from things that seem too overpowered to the point that they might trivialize the game, though.  Any ideas appreciated!

Edited January 24, 2022 by crdvis16

[NotDumbEnough]

Streetfighter + Soulblade in my experience more or less has the highest single target damage in the game sans bugs and unintended interactions.

[crdvis16]

Do you trigger the Streetfighter bonuses from flanked then?  Because it would probably be somewhat dangerous to be bloodied and in melee without BDD support I imagine?

With BPM its a bit harder to get flanked (no more blunderbuss modal).  You can get flanked the old fashioned way but then you're in some danger unless built a little tanky (at which point you're sacrificing some damage for that tankiness).  I think there are probably other ways, like hitting yourself with sparkcrackers maybe as long as your mechanics skill is better than your will?

[Boeroer]

7 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Streetfighter + Soulblade in my experience more or less has the highest single target damage in the game sans bugs and unintended interactions.

It's great. But I don't know if a Streetfighter/Berserker doesn't do higher dps all in all? A Barbaric Smash crit while on the Edge is pretty common and has a very high amount of dmg bonuses. The combo hits a lot faster than Soulblade and has nice stacking raw DoTs that get applied on the fly (Deep Wounds + Blood Frenzy).

Of course squishy as hell and a lot less versatile. But also fun imo. It's "living on the edge" after all.

Streetfighter/Soulblade somehow plays more fiddly for me. Don't know why. Maybe because I also feel compelled to use the other spells of he Cipher and not only use the focus for SA. Big plus for the Soulblade is having a refillable resource of course. And the dmg per hit can be a lot higher with Soulblade bc. of Soul Annihilation - which is also very good against overleveled enemies with thick armor like Steelclads.  

[crdvis16]

One build I seemed to have missed is a Beckoner built around Grave Calling chillfogs.  You kill your own skellies with Grave Calling and spawn foe-only chillfogs each time (that can stack I guess?).  Maybe multiclassed with something that benefits from either on-kills (like Barb?) or others seemed to like Cipher because the chill fogs generate focus.  I'll probably give that a try on one of my companions, maybe modded Ydwin.

[Boeroer]

Berserker/Beckoner with Grave Calling is pretty bonkers. Have Modwyr in the second weapon slot. 

Frenzy (confused), kill a skeleton with the sabre --> procs a Chillfog which counts as weapn attack which kills the other skeletons --> they all proc Chillfogs and so on...
switch to Modwyr  and back to get rid of the confusion and then walz in (else you will die). Usually the fight is over in seconds. But it may fry your graphics card because of the multiple chillfogs all pusing at once...

 

[dgray62]

7 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

But it may fry your graphics card because of the multiple chillfogs all pusing at once...

That's the problem with this build unfortunately. My game slows to a crawl due to all the pulsing chillfogs.

[crdvis16]

Maybe if I keep it more tame and not do the Berserker part I won't kill my graphics card?  It's pretty weird that the Chillfog ticks count as weapon attacks.  This game is full of such weird mechanics.  It also sounds like it might trivialize the game which I'm trying to mostly avoid.

Beckoner/Soulblade where I only get chillfogs to spawn from actually attacking my skellies with Grave Calling directly might limit the number of chillfogs active at any given time.  Less stress on the GPU and hopefully a decently powerful but not overpowered build?

Edit: and depending on how silly the paralyze enchantment is I might skip it as well.  Seems like a bug that the chillfogs would increment the counter for the paralyze.

Edited January 26, 2022 by crdvis16

[dgray62]

I really enjoy playing a forbidden fist/soulblade, ultimately dual wielding the Grave Calling and the Seeker's Fang, which is also great for ciphers due to the raw DoT it inflicts on crits, which also build focus for ciphers. As I always have at least one chanter in my parties, you can have them summon skellies when needed, and just kill one or two of them, to keep the graphics card from glitching.

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, crdvis16 said:

Maybe if I keep it more tame and not do the Berserker part I won't kill my graphics card?  It's pretty weird that the Chillfog ticks count as weapon attacks.

Most "do x on y" weapon effects do that. Since they originate from the weapon they count as attacks from that weapon.

1 hour ago, crdvis16 said:

Beckoner/Soulblade where I only get chillfogs to spawn from actually attacking my skellies with Grave Calling directly might limit the number of chillfogs active at any given time.  Less stress on the GPU and hopefully a decently powerful but not overpowered build?

  Def. less stressfull for the hardware but still OP I fear.

1 hour ago, crdvis16 said:

Edit: and depending on how silly the paralyze enchantment is I might skip it as well.  Seems like a bug that the chillfogs would increment the counter for the paralyze.

 Yes, since the Chillfog hit rolls count as weapon attacks they also not only count for the number of stacks but also paralyze enemies themselves.  

[crdvis16]

Yeah, I just hired an adventurer and made him a Beckoner/Soulblade and sent him to the crucible for a test run with Grave Calling.  I wasn't usually able to kill a skellie every swing but usually in two.  If I had 2-3 chillfogs going it would fill my focus fairly quickly and I could do a big soul annihilation hit.  Enemies were often killing off my skellies before I could get to them so it's not completely fool proof I guess.  And if I wanted my skellies to die among lots of enemies so that the chillfog would be well placed then that increases the chances that the skellies get killed before I can kill them myself.  So it does seem like it has some potential pitfalls I guess where you end up doing nothing but trying and failing to kill your own skeletons.  I'll give it a shot on Ydwin and if it ends up being too overpowered I'll just stop using her.

[Boeroer]

The phrase Many Lives Pass by generates skeletons that don't scale so they are supereasy to kill. Because of that a Troubadour+Brisk Recitation (a skeleton every 3 secs) is actually better than a Beckoner for such a Chilling Grave build (once you get Many Lives Pass By that is).

[crdvis16]

I was going to take that chant for extra skellies, though not arriving until PL7 means I'll spend a good portion of the game behind the Beckoner's skelly generation until I get it.  Tough call. 

[Porkchopsandwiches247]

I didnt see it on your list, but a REALLY fun and versatile class is Ascetic (Druid/Monk). It has some excellent synergies. I preferred Shapeshifter and generic Monk, but this is wide open as well. Heres a few fun things:

-Shapeshifter on its own is just OK, but really strong when combined with a martial class like Monk. Swift Strikes ups your damage a lot, particularly in Cat and Boar form, and all of your Monk active abilities work transformed

-You have a weapon set for all melee weapon types. Crush (monk fists), slash (cat+bear), and Pierce (deer, boar and wolf). Between these three and your naturally high weapon penetration, you can very often get the piercing bonus

-shapeshifter gives you a lot of versatility. Bear for extra armor and Frightened, cat for pure melee damage, boar for a massive stacking DoT and healing over time, Wolf for knockdown and closing distance, deer for high defense. And they all function as heals as well in a pinch.

-duality of mortal presence mind boosts your intelligence per wound, and clarity of agony gives you smart. This is potentially +15 intelligence built in to your class. This means your DoTs have insane duration and area of effect, your storms last forever and stun for a long time, and your healing over time, buffs, and debuffs all have way higher effect. It gets pretty nuts

-Thunderous Blows works for a lot of your instant hit spells and your shapeshifting melee damage

 -with monk and shapeshifter passives, you can end up getting a+55% elemental lash on your melee attacks. Combine this with a full attack for huge damage

-you can do anything. Melee frontline dps? Check. DoT from start? Check. Disabler/debuffer? Check. Healer? Check. Instant damage nuker? Check. And imo you do this better than even a normal single class Druid

[crdvis16]

Hey that's not bad- I did run a shifter/conjuror but the Wiz multiclass added survivability more than damage.  I haven't recruited Mirke or Konstanten yet so maybe I'll make one of them a shifter/Monk.  Maybe I'll go Nalpazca so they aren't dependent on taking damage for wounds and because a Bear on PCP sounds hilarious.

[Waski]

2 hours ago, Porkchopsandwiches247 said:

duality of mortal presence mind boosts your intelligence per wound, and clarity of agony gives you smart. This is potentially +15 intelligence built in to your class.

It doesn't stack

[dgray62]

Yes, you can only get +10 INT with DMP. The only thing that stacks is the Helwalker +1 STR per wound with a STR inspiration. Helwalkers can potentially get +15 STR with 10 wounds and Thunderous Blows.

[Porkchopsandwiches247]

1 hour ago, Waski said:

It doesn't stack

Huh thats odd, thought it did. Thanks for the clarification.

I still find the intelligence boosts from Monk to be amazing for Druid apells though. 

[dgray62]

Helwalker is great in a MC with casters, since the bonus to INT and STR (as well as action speeds from swift strikes/flurry) nicely boosts casting. And as you note, a monk/shifter multi class is a lot of fun. I love the animations from monk abilities while shifted; seeing your bear side kicking foes is great. The druid side also adds healing and AR, which the monk needs, especially if you go with helwalker.

[Porkchopsandwiches247]

I dont generally like Helwalker since I shy away from glass cannon type builds…to me the 3% dmg/healing per 5% damage taken isnt worth it.

Its of course true you can mitigate this through crowd control, buffs, healing, etc. But I tend to play a little loosy goosy lol and like to have durability in all my party members in case I dont want to play safe and just charge the frontlines as a wereboar. Just a personal preference.

To me the fun part is the mix of monk abilities + shapeshift forms and how Monk boosts the duration, AoE and piercing of Druid spells. I really dont need more damage when I have so many options for controlling the battle.

 

Sidenote: I find War Caller (devoted fighter + skald chanter) to be equally fun in terms of versatility and synergy.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Porkchopsandwiches247
Typo

[dgray62]

Personally forbidden fist is my favorite monk subclass. It tends to be much more sturdy since you need high RES to play it properly. It works well MCed with a shifter if you want your focus to be more on melee mayhem and less on spell casting. There's also a nice synergy, since some of the best druid spells target fortitude, which a FF monk can easily lower by stunning and enfeebling. But for a glass cannon caster Helwalker is the best IMO.

[Kaylon]

Soulblade/trickster with Sun&Moon/Tuotilo's Palm, arcane archer/ascendant with Frostseeker, dual wielding steel garrote/street fighter, blood mage/assassin with draining weapons, helwalker/paladin using SI....

[crdvis16]

@Kaylon I like the Arcane Ascendent- Imbue Fireball would fill your focus in a hurry.  But I think I've seen analysis that shows being Ascended as a multiclass is only slightly better than just multiclassing as a normal Cipher.  In other words, Ascendent is usually best as a single class.

What's the synergy with Sun/Moon+Tuotillos and Soulblade/Trickster?  Does Sun/Moon hit twice with the raw Damage from Soul Annihilation?

I'm not sure I get the synergy in the other builds either- would you be willing to elaborate on them a bit?

[Kaylon]

50 minutes ago, crdvis16 said:

@Kaylon I like the Arcane Ascendent- Imbue Fireball would fill your focus in a hurry.  But I think I've seen analysis that shows being Ascended as a multiclass is only slightly better than just multiclassing as a normal Cipher.  In other words, Ascendent is usually best as a single class.

If you feel that having permanently 40%dmg bonus and +3PL to your spells isn't important, then you can use a normal cipher, of course.

54 minutes ago, crdvis16 said:

What's the synergy with Sun/Moon+Tuotillos and Soulblade/Trickster?  Does Sun/Moon hit twice with the raw Damage from Soul Annihilation?

It allows to use Soul Annihilation continuously, while benefiting from the shield, dw and PL damage bonuses at the same time.

59 minutes ago, crdvis16 said:

I'm not sure I get the synergy in the other builds either- would you be willing to elaborate on them a bit?

Steel garrote/street fighter - resilient and high dps character who drains health with every attack

Blood mage/assassin - the bloodmage has unlimited access to invisibility and healing (through draining weapons) and can backstab over and over again.

Helwalker/paladin with SI - besides having the highest passive defenses and good melee damage, Sacred Immolation becomes very potent due to mig, int and pen bonuses from the monk, while the self damage is removed with Clarity of Agony.

[crdvis16]

Sorry I think I mispoke- I think the post I remember reading went into the math to show that SC Ascendent was typically better than multiclassed because of efficiency of focus maybe?  I just tried to search for it but couldn't find it and now it's going to bother me.  I can't remember exactly the logic but it seemed to make sense.

For the Soulblade/Trickster, couldn't any combo continously use soul annihilation (since it has no real focus cost)?  I've played a Soul Blade/Barbarian and basically used Soul Annihilation as a focus dump for high single target damage.  Did you mean Forbidden Fist/Trickster by chance?

For the Streetfighter/Garrote, do you use the Blunder modal to trigger flanked->Heating Up?  BPM nerfed that so it takes a little more effort to trigger flanked or bloodied.  Bloodied is probably too dangerous for a melee character but there are other ways to trip flanked (sparkcrackers, Wisp attack from a Chanter summon).  Or the old fashioned actually getting flanked if it doesn't put you in too much danger I suppose.

Bloodmage/Assassin sounds like a nice combo.  I've played a melee Assassin before and running out of guile before a boss fight finished often made him feel weak or led to him getting killed.  And using the drain weapons to counter the Bloodmage ability is a nice touch.

Helwalker/Paladin sounds cool.  I like SI.  Do you not find that the Helwalker damage increase makes it too squishy for a character that wants to be in the middle of the enemy?  I guess picking up a lot of defensive abilities and heavy armor might keep you alive?