Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 3

[xzar_monty]

On 3/8/2022 at 6:00 PM, Gromnir said:

am recognizing how every computer config presents different performance issues, so am just happy that for once we ain't one o' the unlucky folks who is suffering worse performance following a major update. you got our sympathy, but we got no advice neither.

To demonstrate how right you are and how odd things can be, here's a follow-up: the game seemed to get even slower, although not by much, until all of a sudden the mouse froze. And not only within the game, either, but totally. That's strange, I thought. So, I went and unplugged my (wireless) mouse's connector from the computer, waited a bit and put it back. The mouse worked again, and the game looked significantly faster again. There must have been something resembling a memory leak somewhere.

[majestic]

1 hour ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

He doesn't like you doing Cami's abyssal adventure.

 

Spoiler

I wonder if she got off knowing that the Hand of the Inheritor was watching that sordid ordeal in the brothel from start to finish. I mean, that includes Camellia getting all hot and bothered over the murder of her, ahm, father lookalike.

Kinda don't know how to get out of this mess, but I also want that romance achievement, so unless some other option comes up, ugh.

[Gromnir]

18 minutes ago, majestic said:

 

  Hide contents

I wonder if she got off knowing that the Hand of the Inheritor was watching that sordid ordeal in the brothel from start to finish. I mean, that includes Camellia getting all hot and bothered over the murder of her, ahm, father lookalike.

Kinda don't know how to get out of this mess, but I also want that romance achievement, so unless some other option comes up, ugh.

there is an extreme late game romance option:

Spoiler

queen galfrey

the game romances and achievements matter little to us, so am not sure what are the requirements, but we did include a link to a possible alternative to crazycakes.

HA! Good Fun!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

31 minutes ago, majestic said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I wonder if she got off knowing that the Hand of the Inheritor was watching that sordid ordeal in the brothel from start to finish. I mean, that includes Camellia getting all hot and bothered over the murder of her, ahm, father lookalike.

Kinda don't know how to get out of this mess, but I also want that romance achievement, so unless some other option comes up, ugh.

What the Hell?

[majestic]

6 minutes ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

What the Hell?

If you somehow stumble into the romance with Camellia...

Spoiler

Which happens at the snap of your fingers when you're supportive of her insanity, then she wants to have sex immediately after eating part of her victim - that's directly after the murder you witness and right after the, ah, murder of her father lookalike. You also end up drinking wine laced with an invisibility potion and go at it at on the balcony next to the crusade management room in the citadel in Drezen with Irabeth coming to look because someone complained about noise from the window.

It was probably written by a 13 year old psychopath, or a mid 40ies housewife who thinks 50 Shades of Grey is the bee's knees. Not sure.

Edited March 15, 2022 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

29 minutes ago, majestic said:

If you somehow stumble into the romance with Camellia...

  Reveal hidden contents

Which happens at the snap of your fingers when you're supportive of her insanity, then she wants to have sex immediately after eating part of her victim - that's directly after the murder you witness and right after the, ah, murder of her father lookalike. You also end up drinking wine laced with an invisibility potion and go at it at on the balcony next to the crusade management room in the citadel in Drezen with Irabeth coming to look because someone complained about noise from the window.

It was probably written by a 13 year old psychopath, or a mid 40ies housewife who thinks 50 Shades of Grey is the bee's knees. Not sure.

Why not co-written by a 13 year old psychopath and a mid 40ies housewife who thinks 50 Shades of Grey is the bee's knees?

Anyways, that What the Hell was because the forum ate my post and replaced it with Gordon Cole reacting to Sonic. What the Hell indeed, I don't need a reminder someone made a video ranking the ladies from Sonic the Hedgehog everytime I post.

But y u no romance Aru? Don't you want to play ムーンライト伝説 ?

Or even better, go with Sosiel and use divine magic to become gym gods together. AYAYAYAYAYA!

Edited March 15, 2022 by KP wants Blue Velvet

[majestic]

52 minutes ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

Why not co-written by a 13 year old psychopath and a mid 40ies housewife who thinks 50 Shades of Grey is the bee's knees?

That indeed is a possibility. Mother and son writing a creepy romance together, just to round that image out.

53 minutes ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

Anyways, that What the Hell was because the forum ate my post and replaced it with Gordon Cole reacting to Sonic. What the Hell indeed, I don't need a reminder someone made a video ranking the ladies from Sonic the Hedgehog everytime I post.

That sure was a what the hell moment.

53 minutes ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

But y u no romance Aru? Don't you want to play ムーンライト伝説 ?

I think her romance is still possible, but I'm not doing this for the romance part, just for the achievement. Japanese loan words are so weird, it took me a while to realize what muunraito was supposed to be. If the possibility comes up, I'll switch to the resident ワイフ in a heartbeat. Not sure if Gromnir's suggestion is still available, I don't think I'm going to hit that hidden reputation counter, but who knows.

1 hour ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

Or even better, go with Sosiel and use divine magic to become gym gods together. AYAYAYAYAYA!

Maybe next time, although probably not.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

20 minutes ago, majestic said:

That indeed is a possibility. Mother and son writing a creepy romance together, just to round that image out.

That deserves it's own What the Hell.

 

25 minutes ago, majestic said:

That sure was a what the hell moment.

The way it just got worse as it went on is beautiful.

26 minutes ago, majestic said:

I think her romance is still possible, but I'm not doing this for the romance part, just for the achievement. Japanese loan words are so weird, it took me a while to realize what muunraito was supposed to be. If the possibility comes up, I'll switch to the resident ワイフ in a heartbeat. Not sure if Gromnir's suggestion is still available, I don't think I'm going to hit that hidden reputation counter, but who knows.

I think you have to do stuff in act 3 to get them, so unless Aru locked herself in horny jail you won't be able to rp as Tuxedo Kamen.

27 minutes ago, majestic said:

Maybe next time, although probably not.

Maybe. Be warned tho

You kill Came's dad, then the servants, then pound that CHAOTIC EVIL pussayy in their blood and guts. Pure edgelord ****.

The last part is hearsay, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Theonlygarby]

14 hours ago, Gromnir said:

*chuckle*

the downside being there is far too many objective bad class and race choices. converse is more good options than the hardcore 1337 pathfinder/wotr sages will readily admit. 

HA! Good Fun!

Yes exactly.  Also I always seem to make the wrong choices.  Math is not a strength of mine and I get quite overwhelmed... and have many times got halfway through a game and then realized I made pretty much every mistake possible.

 

Its what made POE accessible to me.  You can pretty much make any class work... on normal at least.

[Gromnir]

22 hours ago, Theonlygarby said:

Yes exactly.  Also I always seem to make the wrong choices.  Math is not a strength of mine and I get quite overwhelmed... and have many times got halfway through a game and then realized I made pretty much every mistake possible.

 

Its what made POE accessible to me.  You can pretty much make any class work... on normal at least.

is unlikely to make you feel better, but even if you are a math savant, you could face considerable consternation. good math for levels up to eight will as often as not result in bad math as you progress. also, to avoid player generation and development pitfalls you need know pathfinder and owlcat quirks. example: erastil is not a popular pnp deity choice 'mongst powergamer 'cause the deity's domain powers and spells his clerics have access to is kinda meh. in fact, the wotr community domain's guarded hearth, which is a near no-brainer choice, is the domain power o' the pnp home subdomain o' community... a subdomain which is considered weaker than community 'cause the cleric o' erastil would be needing give up the unity domain power to avail themselves o' the home sub-domain... and is likely the previous example sounds like gibberish to anybody not over-invested in pathfinder. regardless, know math and know pathfinder ain't enough 'cause owlcat adds their own twist.

is a whole lotta ways to play wotr and be effective and even powerful with difficulty set to core and even hard. unfortunate, is also way too many opportunities for a player to ruin a character or party by choosing wrong at level-up. owlcat's approach with stat bloat is rewarding a powergamer approach and punishing the casual gamer who don't know wotr and pathfinder minutiae. curious enough, is a considerable % o' owlcat fans who defend the developer's approach and sales do not appear to have suffered overmuch, so expecting a sea change is not a reasonable gamble. 

HA! Good Fun!

[ShadySands]

I restarted my arcanist and am currently about to storm the Lost Chapel in chapter 2. I gotta say that even though there's no background reactivity and not much class reactivity there is tons of reactivity for different deities. I actually have 2 games going side by side, my normal game with this arcanist and a modded one where he I gave him almost all the gods. In the modded game there's tons of new dialogue options, buffs, and even some cool story interactions.

[Theonlygarby]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

is unlikely to make you feel better, but even if you are a math savant, you could face considerable consternation. good math for levels up to eight will as often as not result in bad math as you progress. also, to avoid player generation and development pitfalls you need know pathfinder and owlcat quirks. example: erastil is not a popular pnp deity choice 'mongst powergamer 'cause the deity's domain powers and spells his clerics have access to is kinda meh. in fact, the wotr community domain's guarded hearth, which is a near no-brainer choice, is the domain power o' the pnp home subdomain o' community... a subdomain which is considered weaker than community 'cause the cleric o' erastil would be needing give up the unity domain power to avail themselves o' the home sub-domain... and is likely the previous example sounds like gibberish to anybody not over-invested in pathfinder. regardless, know math and know pathfinder ain't enough 'cause owlcat adds their own twist.

is a whole lotta ways to play wotr and be effective and even powerful with difficulty set to core and even hard. unfortunate, is also way too many opportunities for a player to ruin a character or party by choosing wrong at level-up. owlcat's approach with stat bloat is rewarding a powergamer approach and punishing the casual gamer who don't know wotr and pathfinder minutiae. curious enough, is a considerable % o' owlcat fans who defend the developer's approach and sales do not appear to have suffered overmuch, so expecting a sea change is not a reasonable gamble. 

HA! Good Fun!

Well you're right that didnt make me feel better!

 

Personally even if i never get 1/4 of the way through the game i wont regret the purchase.  I like supporting these types of games... even if this specific one is way above my head.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

On 3/15/2022 at 4:04 PM, Theonlygarby said:

Yes exactly.  Also I always seem to make the wrong choices.  Math is not a strength of mine and I get quite overwhelmed... and have many times got halfway through a game and then realized I made pretty much every mistake possible.

 

Its what made POE accessible to me.  You can pretty much make any class work... on normal at least.

Did you play Deadfire? Because I still can not get my head wrapped around double inversion other than knowing that -x% is usually more severe than it looks. Comparatively OwlcatFinder is easier to understand for me because it's all addition once you get past the weird stacking rules and the specific abilities not doing what they say.

Of course there are far too many trap choices in OwlcatFinder and despite having an absurd amount of player choice, I wager that either PoE has a relatively larger number of possible builds that are effective and fun to play. Hell, I think of the thousand combined hours I have logged in Kingmaker and Wrath, I've spent more time testing builds to make sure they work or with the game running in the background while I do something else while I've spent all my PoE time playing PoE.

[uuuhhii]

4 hours ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

Did you play Deadfire? Because I still can not get my head wrapped around double inversion other than knowing that -x% is usually more severe than it looks. Comparatively OwlcatFinder is easier to understand for me because it's all addition once you get past the weird stacking rules and the specific abilities not doing what they say.

Of course there are far too many trap choices in OwlcatFinder and despite having an absurd amount of player choice, I wager that either PoE has a relatively larger number of possible builds that are effective and fun to play. Hell, I think of the thousand combined hours I have logged in Kingmaker and Wrath, I've spent more time testing builds to make sure they work or with the game running in the background while I do something else while I've spent all my PoE time playing PoE.

the whole action speed and recovery time are difficult to follow

but at least game always show the result to player

pathfinder 1e have so many ancient issue owlcat can barely get the part they put in the game working as described and rarely improve anything

[Gromnir]

9 hours ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

Comparatively OwlcatFinder is easier to understand for me because it's all addition once you get past the weird stacking rules and the specific abilities not doing what they say.

 

you making another funny? stacking is a big exception, and insta-kills, and critical hits where the threat range doubles yielding vast different results from improved critical or keen is gonna confuse, and (etc.) but to describe a d20 system as "addition" is misguided or ignorant... is even worse 'cause we still got d4, d6, d8, d12 as well and you may check the probability curve for those dice if you want to be doing a search. 

comparative, virtual all math in pillars is percentile based with players receiving actual linear advantages for improvements or penalties and is not threshold based neither resulting in the need to chase ever more elusive dcs and ab numbers.  action speed and recovery is a noteworthy pillars exception even though technical remains percentile based as is inextricably linked to animation speed. once again kp focuses on the exception to prove the rule, eh? 

and again, whether you understand the comparative simple math o' pillars or not, it don't much matter to the uninitiated as is relative few trap options, and unlike owlcat which is stuck with broken pathfinder, obsidian were able to correct balance problems as posed to magnifying issues with mythics... complete indifference to balance so clear led to the bloat you so often criticize. 

according to pillars 2 telemetry, literal nobody had played a shaman a couple months post deadfire release. 'course this inspired Gromnir to play a pillars ii shaman.

even the options pillars players were purposeful avoiding ended up being not only viable but effective. sure, with multiclass it were technical possible to construct self a trap build, but it actual took effort to do so.  regardless, don't get the relative simple pillars % math? no worries 'cause you could choose weapons and abilities based on what sounded kewl after reading ability and item descriptions and chances are you would end up with a highly effective build.

we do understand the appeal o' owlcat's pathfinder. years o' familiarity with d&d legacy systems is tough to overcome. is a whole lotta nostalgia involved but is also far easier to stick with the old system you know rather than switch to something new even if is more rational and easier for beginners to learn, which is part o' the reason why the US still ain't switched to the metric system. also, part o' the appeal o' the d20/d&d stuff is the opportunity to craft a better build. the thing is, better is not possible unless there is worse. 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited March 17, 2022 by Gromnir

[Gromnir]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1184370/view/3133948628978453388

"Aeon Gaze will no longer work on enemies with echolocation, thoughtsense and blindsight, because it is gaze"

an odd nerf seeing as how most high level foes have at least one o' the aforementioned. will be curious to see if the all too predictable happens and if party members with  blindsight or echolocation is prevented from benefiting from aeon's gaze. as it current stands, aeon party immunity to mind-affecting invalidates a few buffs, so we would be less than surprised if companion blindsight and echolocation undermined aeon's gaze buffs.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

8 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

the whole action speed and recovery time are difficult to follow

but at least game always show the result to player

Does it? In PoE at least I can't remember seeing too much on recovery time. I think Deadfire does a lot better, but can be hard to keep up with the various buffs and debuffs flying around.

Anyways, look at this. Crazy stuff that is completely unintuitive and not explained anywhere in the game itself.

[Theonlygarby]

15 hours ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

Did you play Deadfire? Because I still can not get my head wrapped around double inversion other than knowing that -x% is usually more severe than it looks. Comparatively OwlcatFinder is easier to understand for me because it's all addition once you get past the weird stacking rules and the specific abilities not doing what they say.

Of course there are far too many trap choices in OwlcatFinder and despite having an absurd amount of player choice, I wager that either PoE has a relatively larger number of possible builds that are effective and fun to play. Hell, I think of the thousand combined hours I have logged in Kingmaker and Wrath, I've spent more time testing builds to make sure they work or with the game running in the background while I do something else while I've spent all my PoE time playing PoE.

With deadfire it's just easier..  I didn't have to use math at all really.  Keep in mind I play almost any game on the default setting.  PoE pretty much anything you do will work... and there are no trick abilities that are the wrong choice... there are better choices but on normal it doesn't really seem to matter

Edited March 17, 2022 by Theonlygarby

[Gromnir]

57 minutes ago, Theonlygarby said:

With deadfire it's just easier..  I didn't have to use math at all really.  Keep in mind I play almost any game on the default setting.  PoE pretty much anything you do will work... and there are no trick abilities that are the wrong choice... there are better choices but on normal it doesn't really seem to matter

kp pretends not to have read the "why inversions" part of his link, but the point you make is the one he will similar keep ignoring. heck, he don't get the "why inversions" explains how d20 systems actual result in more complex math than the link offering 'cause d20, d6 and whatever probabilities (not to mention nonsensical armour and stacking maths) is comparatively far less intuitive. the math o' inversions may be confusing to kp, but he gets inverted 'cause the result is actual intuitive with benefits and boons being equivalent, which is the more intuitive result.

obsidian didn't set out to make all pillars powhaz and abilities equal, but they did aim for and attain near universal viability. is a whole lotta builds threads for pillars which make it obvious one may still find the margins o' the math to achieve an edge in pillars and pillars ii. is a handful o' disproportionate powerful synergies in pillars which make those triple crown solo achievements possible. one may create a relative powerful pillars character if they know the math and understand the margins o' the rule system. however, you don't need to know the math or the rules to build a strong pillars character and you don't need to understand the math, 'cause if you build a character which in your imagination you envision will be effective, then is almost certain it will be effective in pillars and deadfire. 

but again, much o' the appeal o' pathfinder and owlcat's mythics is players patting themselves on the back for discovering the best options and avoiding the pitfalls o' d&d legacy systems with which they is comfortable and familiar. kingmaker and wotr players prefer an obtuse system which necessarily leads to stat bloat and increasing numbers o' builds being rendered ineffective. is impossible to fight literal decades o' familiarity and nostalgia and is not actual the job o' players to be reasonable. developers gotta sell folks what they want regardless o' what they is complaining. owlcat, adding their extra munchkiny mythics, archetypes, sooper weapon and stat bloat took accurate measure o' their fanbase. 

...

mythics popularity does kinda paint owlcat into a corner for future releases as no other 1e ap uses mythic. that said, it wouldn't be too difficult to bootstrap legacy of fire, return of the runelords, strange aeons or tyrant's grasp into mythic viability. converse, owlcat being inextricable tethered to the crusade system makes jade empire, skull and shackles and a couple other options likely successors. assuming owlcat remains viable post ukraine invasion, is difficult to guess which is the next ap choice. will be tough to make more munchkin than wotr, and fans no doubt want at least wotr powha, but so far the only limits we has seen mentioned by owlcat is that they don't want "too weird" (no iron gods,) they is sticking with 1e and as @Agiel observed, reign of winter is a non-starter for uniquely russian legal reasons.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

[uuuhhii]

owlcat are extremely bad at designing puzzle and management system

really hope they never try to make anything involve management element again

even the circus system in extinction curse would be far too much of a risk

hope next owlcat project would be the two runelord campaign put together

will have plenty of room to put another ridiculous high power boost in there

Edited March 17, 2022 by uuuhhii

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 hours ago, Theonlygarby said:

With deadfire it's just easier..  I didn't have to use math at all really.  Keep in mind I play almost any game on the default setting.  PoE pretty much anything you do will work... and there are no trick abilities that are the wrong choice... there are better choices but on normal it doesn't really seem to matter

There's some stuff in Deadfire that are trap choices, like Shattered Pillar or Conjurer. Most of the selected abilities are useful in some capacity at least. But yeah, there definitely isn't anything like the potential cluster****s you can end up with in WotR and you don't need a spreadsheet to play on normal.

50 minutes ago, uuuhhii said:

owlcat are extremely bad at designing puzzle and management system

really hope they never try to make anything involve management element again

even the circus system in extinction curse would be far too much of a risk

hope next owlcat project would be the two runelord campaign put together

will have plenty of room to put another ridiculous high power boost in there

Given the political situation, there may not be another Owlcat Pathfinder. Even if there is, based on KM > WotR, they'll double down on the puzzles and management. Which sucks, because those puzzles are awful.

[Gromnir]

well each runelords ap got you to level twenty, so is kinda an obvious hurdle to combine. no hurdle is insurmountable, but...

extinction curse is 2e. the following observation is hardly definitive, but at least twice has the owlcat developers mentioned in streams that they were planning on doing another 1e ap.

also, given how the least popular aspect o' kingmaker were kingdom building, the reasonable approach woulda' been to do something w/o a similar mechanic. similar, recognizing the considerable complaints 'bout wotr enigma and puzzles, you mighta' thought the dlc would eschew such.

...

might be worth considering that owlcat developers is hopelessly contrarian. 

speaking o' contrarian, shattered pillar and conjurer, btw, is hardly "traps" in any meaningful sense. in deadfire a shattered pillar can be highly efficacious and it takes effort to build a non viable single class monk, regardless o' subclass. argue there is better monk or wizard options than shattered pillar or conjurer is not identifying a trap unless those subclasses serious undermine viability. am thinking people is knowing using such terms as "trap" in a non traditional sense.

HA! Good Fun!

ps kinda amusing, but while am  personally likely to play helwaker or forbidden fist as a monk, shattered pillar is one o' our recommendations for folks wanting an ez kinda entry-level deadfire character which nevertheless feels powerful. shattered pillar requires less micromanagement than other monks, but particular on normal difficulty, you are gonna have zero difficulty generating wounds so you may spam abilities even with the 5.0 wounds cap.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Gromnir
had a vid which were pre 5.0, which mighta been misleading for those who don't know the changes

[Theonlygarby]

Clearly everyone in this thread is smarter than me. Maybe I should start playing ubisoft games...

 

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, Theonlygarby said:

Clearly everyone in this thread is smarter than me. Maybe I should start playing ubisoft games...

 

 

Naw man, I just have an affinity for memorization of rpg systems since I've been playing them since I was a depressed pre-teen. If you're having a good time playing just keep on going even if the mechanics are confusing.

Besides, Just Dance 2022 is the real hardcore gaming.

[uuuhhii]

8 hours ago, Gromnir said:

well each runelords ap got you to level twenty, so is kinda an obvious hurdle to combine. no hurdle is insurmountable, but...

extinction curse is 2e. the following observation is hardly definitive, but at least twice has the owlcat developers mentioned in streams that they were planning on doing another 1e ap.

also, given how the least popular aspect o' kingmaker were kingdom building, the reasonable approach woulda' been to do something w/o a similar mechanic. similar, recognizing the considerable complaints 'bout wotr enigma and puzzles, you mighta' thought the dlc would eschew such.

...

might be worth considering that owlcat developers is hopelessly contrarian. 

speaking o' contrarian, shattered pillar and conjurer, btw, is hardly "traps" in any meaningful sense. in deadfire a shattered pillar can be highly efficacious and it takes effort to build a non viable single class monk, regardless o' subclass. argue there is better monk or wizard options than shattered pillar or conjurer is not identifying a trap unless those subclasses serious undermine viability. am thinking people is knowing using such terms as "trap" in a non traditional sense.

HA! Good Fun!

ps kinda amusing, but while am  personally likely to play helwaker or forbidden fist as a monk, shattered pillar is one o' our recommendations for folks wanting an ez kinda entry-level deadfire character which nevertheless feels powerful. shattered pillar requires less micromanagement than other monks, but particular on normal difficulty, you are gonna have zero difficulty generating wounds so you may spam abilities even with the 5.0 wounds cap.

shattered pillar are awful at low level but decent with a low armor build later

die as much as helwalker

all the school specialization subclass are kind of trap for new player

require far too much effort and multiclass to make some of them work