Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Part 2

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

20 minutes ago, Sarex said:

It's a balance. Taking PoE as an example you hit the level cap way too soon.

I appreciate that somewhat actually. It makes some quests less essential to deal with especially if you're trying a rp run and don't want to be too evil or something.

PoE did definitely over do it though.

4 minutes ago, Achilles said:

You hit max vanilla level well before the end of the game. You don’t get your last mythic level until the very end. 

I didn't know that. Regardless, I'd apply that statement to mythic tiers or any other power source that isn't directly tied to level. Getting the cool stuff right before the final battle seems like a huge waste. Like the 10th level spells in WotR which will get used once or twice in the whole game.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

I didn't know that. Regardless, I'd apply that statement to mythic tiers or any other power source that isn't directly tied to level. Getting the cool stuff right before the final battle seems like a huge waste. Like the 10th level spells in WotR which will get used once or twice in the whole game.

Yeah, that’s why I’m hoping the patch notes were right and discord was wrong.

Now that I’m thinking about it, if they were working for non-merged spellbooks previously, then both could be true. But I was also under the impression that only merged spellbooks got 10th level spells. Perhaps that was just speculation.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

7 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Yeah, that’s why I’m hoping the patch notes were right and discord was wrong.

Now that I’m thinking about it, if they were working for non-merged spellbooks previously, then both could be true. But I was also under the impression that only merged spellbooks got 10th level spells. Perhaps that was just speculation.

When I tested it with Toybox, Lich got 10th spells at MT 10. So both could be true, in which case merged spellbook is even more powerful.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

When I tested it with Toybox, Lich got 10th spells at MT 10. So both could be true, in which case merged spellbook is even more powerful.

So back to my original post from this morning, if ML 10 is the trigger then that's too late to be meaningful.

My count from this morning was off; it's either 2 fights or 3 fights depending on player choices. All of which are significantly easier than fights leading up that point in the game.

[Sarex]

53 minutes ago, Achilles said:

My count from this morning was off; it's either 2 fights or 3 fights depending on player choices. All of which are significantly easier than fights leading up that point in the game.

So pretty much the kingmaker ending, where the last boss is a joke.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Sarex said:

So pretty much the kingmaker ending, where the last boss is a joke.

KM end boss was harder

[Sarex]

17 minutes ago, Achilles said:

KM end boss was harder

Well that sucks... Hopefully they......balance that.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Well that sucks... Hopefully they......balance that.

Maybe. To be honest, there are enough hairy encounters in Act VI already. I don't think that I need the last one to be grueling to feel like I got my money's worth. YRMV

Edited October 15, 2021 by Achilles
missing word

[Guest]

 

[Gromnir]

hadn't played since wednesday, but earlier today we did the threshold content up to the point where we achieved mythic ten, which were kinda anticlimactic as we would ordinarily have added the heavenly host sword of heaven power for our upcoming finale, but seeing as how that feature is bugged and not working... *sigh* we did get access to mythic ten spells, which might be interesting, but am not certain if there is a rest opportunity so we might memorize the groovy spells.  

maybe tomorrow we finish. maybe.

our next wotr game is current planned to be a quirky build, but am wondering if is better to be waiting for a few azata features to get fixed. gonna go azata and do a gnome feyspeaker druid. won't be able to get weird, but every other decent illusionist spell will be accessible and we should be able to achieve impressive dc checks for those as well as evocation spells. is gonna be lighter on teamwork feats than we would like, but am not seeing a good way around that issue. is a few items which is usable only by spontaneous casters and is making us consider sylvan sorcerer, but our skill points with such a character would be atrocious. oracle with nature mystery similar gets us much o' the stuff we want, but it wouldn't be an illusionist build. 

choices.

still gotta find missing resolve and screw our courage to the sticking place if am gonna finish our first run before halloween.

HA! Good Fun!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

On 10/15/2021 at 3:33 PM, Achilles said:

So back to my original post from this morning, if ML 10 is the trigger then that's too late to be meaningful.

My count from this morning was off; it's either 2 fights or 3 fights depending on player choices. All of which are significantly easier than fights leading up that point in the game.

Yeah that sucks. It's pretty much giving you an insanely cool toy that you use once before riding off into the sunset. wtf owlcat.

On 10/15/2021 at 4:27 PM, Sarex said:

So pretty much the kingmaker ending, where the last boss is a joke.

I guess that means that

Spoiler

The Lantern King really did get the last laugh.

On 10/15/2021 at 5:03 PM, Sarex said:

Well that sucks... Hopefully they......balance that.

On 10/15/2021 at 5:03 PM, Sarex said:

Hopefully they......balance that.

On 10/15/2021 at 5:03 PM, Sarex said:

balance that.

On 10/15/2021 at 5:03 PM, Sarex said:

balance

[Gromnir]

not sure if is a respec specific issue, but while it would appear druids (but not feyspeakers) and shamans may merge spellbooks with angel (not possible options during the beta,) the merging is a bit sketchy. for example, a zen archer/spirit hunter shaman with angel we resepc'd from a level 20 zen archer/sacred huntsmaster/demonslayer had a merged spellbook and a caster level o' 26,  but for spell levels four, five and seven, only angel spells were in the spellbook. a drovier druid had similar (but not identical) non accessible druid spell levels. 

am aware respec remains buggy, so is quite possible the wonky spellbook merging for shamans and druids is not an issue save for when attempting to create such a character via respec. am also gonna hypothesize the reason for feyspeaker incompatibility is less a matter o' respec and more a matter o' the unique charisma-based casting for feyspeakers.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

not sure if is a respec specific issue, but while it would appear druids (but not feyspeakers) and shamans may merge spellbooks with angel (not possible options during the beta,) the merging is a bit sketchy. for example, a zen archer/spirit hunter shaman with angel we resepc'd from a level 20 zen archer/sacred huntsmaster/demonslayer had a merged spellbook and a caster level o' 26,  but for spell levels four, five and seven, only angel spells were in the spellbook. a drovier druid had similar (but not identical) non accessible druid spell levels. 

am aware respec remains buggy, so is quite possible the wonky spellbook merging for shamans and druids is not an issue save for when attempting to create such a character via respec. am also gonna hypothesize the reason for feyspeaker incompatibility is less a matter o' respec and more a matter o' the unique charisma-based casting for feyspeakers.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Assuming that the issue you're encountering is the same as the known issue I've run into, reloading the game should make the spells reappear. You may run into it on any ML increase that coincidences with a vanilla CL increase.

[Vaeliorin]

6 hours ago, Gromnir said:

not sure if is a respec specific issue, but while it would appear druids (but not feyspeakers) and shamans may merge spellbooks with angel (not possible options during the beta,) the merging is a bit sketchy. for example, a zen archer/spirit hunter shaman with angel we resepc'd from a level 20 zen archer/sacred huntsmaster/demonslayer had a merged spellbook and a caster level o' 26,  but for spell levels four, five and seven, only angel spells were in the spellbook. a drovier druid had similar (but not identical) non accessible druid spell levels. 

am aware respec remains buggy, so is quite possible the wonky spellbook merging for shamans and druids is not an issue save for when attempting to create such a character via respec. am also gonna hypothesize the reason for feyspeaker incompatibility is less a matter o' respec and more a matter o' the unique charisma-based casting for feyspeakers.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Just messed around with a Wildlands (I think that's what it's called, the orc racial one) Shaman and Nature Fang (there's a mod) Druid, and merging with Angel spellbook worked fine.  Even got 10th level spells (at 19 Shaman/Druid, 9 Angel..didn't think to check 20/8) so they're definitely usable beyond just the last couple of encounters.

Edit: Just tested and Oracle 20/Angel 8 got 10th level spells with merged spellbook.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Vaeliorin

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:

Edit: Just tested and Oracle 20/Angel 8 got 10th level spells with merged spellbook.

Patch notes said CL28, so...

Looks like patch notes are the winner

[Gromnir]

10 hours ago, Achilles said:

Patch notes said CL28, so...

Looks like patch notes are the winner

patch notes is weird.

with our zen archer/sacred huntsmaster, who is/were nowhere near cl 28, we did rest right after achieving mythic ten and we used the spells before/during the last three fights o' the game. our finishing o' the game and use o' the spells was post final patch. 

cl 28 is extreme late. keep in mind, we did the 3/17 zen archer/spirit hunter for the angel with mythic 9 ('cause am not using toybox or similar, but we did respec w/i game) and that got us to cl 26, which makes sense-- 17 +9. we were able to view level 10 spells, but if we ain't s'posed to be able to use 'em, on that build, evar, would be kinda disappointing.

as aside, we did finish the game and the final three battles (technical, there were four battles, but one did not include our mc) were indeed on the ez side. as a matter o' fact, the big boss, if not the ultimate boss, had combat end following an intimidation/diplomacy check option, which were implemented kinda awkward. felt like we had missed something. whatever. 

oh, and 

Spoiler

during the final camp battle with the raised-from-dead balor, galfrey and one o' our party animal companions participated, but not the galfrey who were current in our party as camp defense galfrey were using her own gear and were unbuffed, unlike our animal companion who benefiting from the new army of heaven level ten spell. *shrug*

gonna do a second run as an azata, likely the gnome fey speaker we mentioned. the thing is, we got an idea for an intimidator tank, but it just don't fit in our anticipated party, even as a merc. is pure cheez: one level nature oracle and one level scaled fist for the double charisma buff to ac which should not be possible in a pathfinder game. use an assimar who goes dirge bard for remaining seventeen o' eighteen levels... add one level o' loremaster.  mostly charisma but am starting with 18 str to take advantage o' intimidating prowess. tested and am able to achieve a +79 modifier on intimidation checks at level 20, but might be able to do slight better. am getting greater vital strike from the one level o' loremaster. maybe too much cheez.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

patch notes is weird.

with our zen archer/sacred huntsmaster, who is/were nowhere near cl 28, we did rest right after achieving mythic ten and we used the spells before/during the last three fights o' the game. our finishing o' the game and use o' the spells was post final patch. 

cl 28 is extreme late. keep in mind, we did the 3/17 zen archer/spirit hunter for the angel with mythic 9 ('cause am not using toybox or similar, but we did respec w/i game) and that got us to cl 26, which makes sense-- 17 +9. we were able to view level 10 spells, but if we ain't s'posed to be able to use 'em, on that build, evar, would be kinda disappointing.

as aside, we did finish the game and the final three battles (technical, there were four battles, but one did not include our mc) were indeed on the ez side. as a matter o' fact, the big boss, if not the ultimate boss, had combat end following an intimidation/diplomacy check option, which were implemented kinda awkward. felt like we had missed something. whatever. 

oh, and 

  Hide contents

during the final camp battle with the raised-from-dead balor, galfrey and one o' our party animal companions participated, but not the galfrey who were current in our party as camp defense galfrey were using her own gear and were unbuffed, unlike our animal companion who benefiting from the new army of heaven level ten spell. *shrug*

gonna do a second run as an azata, likely the gnome fey speaker we mentioned. the thing is, we got an idea for an intimidator tank, but it just don't fit in our anticipated party, even as a merc. is pure cheez: one level nature oracle and one level scaled fist for the double charisma buff to ac which should not be possible in a pathfinder game. use an assimar who goes dirge bard for remaining seventeen o' eighteen levels... add one level o' loremaster.  mostly charisma but am starting with 18 str to take advantage o' intimidating prowess. tested and am able to achieve a +79 modifier on intimidation checks at level 20, but might be able to do slight better. am getting greater vital strike from the one level o' loremaster. maybe too much cheez.

HA! Good Fun!

Several people in discord complaining that the end felt tacked on at the last minute. Having seen a couple of them...I think they were trying to get away with as few endings as possible and shoe-horned things that should have been unique into things that could be shared. My 2 cents.

Re: spoilers

Spoiler

Rumor has it that romanced Galfrey can join your party as companion NPC for Threshold. Guess that's gonna be headcanon now.

Got burned pretty bad at that part first time, as there are several companion NPCs that I either never recruited or...parted ways with. 2nd time though, thought I'd get smart and hire mercs so that I had a full complement. Apparently they don't count, so again, got burned with like 2 available party members. Think I have a plan for 3rd attempt that includes leveraging above spoiler.

Re: Intimidation build

PC (cleric/crusader + angel) has dreadful carnage with shatter defenses. Even with CHA as a quasi dump stat (12 + bonuses), it's ridiculously easy to proc, especially since any means of execution (OP angel spells, halo damage, etc) counts. I take intimidating prowess at 20 just to be sure, but it's completely unnecessary. Anything that isn't immune is fighting me flat-footed for the last two acts of the game.

Have you played around with

Spoiler

Trever?

His HK "dip" means that shaken procs as frightened. Combined with all of his CMB, he's scarily good at pushing things around, but is very much reliant on gear + intimidating prowess. His nickname is fitting.

[Gromnir]

49 minutes ago, Achilles said:

 

Re: Intimidation build

 

am most concerned with boss fights. almost every build we consider is specific tailored to the double handful o' improbable bloated boss fights and disproportionate difficult optional  "achievement" fights. nobody comes to this board or owlcat forums with reflections 'cause they were having difficulty with a random mob o' vrocks or some such. demon lords and similar are infrequent immune to mind-affecting. go figure. however, baphomet and deskari on even core is gonna require at least an 80 for your intimidation check. an inquisitor with a level o' thug, or a dirge bard build  gets us where we need to be if we wanna be confident in producing shaken and we may even achieve frightened. best intimidator we has come up with so far is an inquisitor (and a few other odds and ends) with acolyte background and high strength + decent boosted wisdom, and even that build with moss pottage meal is not 100% guaranteed to intimidate playful darkness when you first encounter or deskari in iz.

seelah, sosiel and

Spoiler

galfrey, who we gave a level o' hk btw,

is arguable the best companions for intimidation, with sosiel our choice as the genuine winner... if you are willing to sacrifice a cleric caster level. taking a level o' thug feels like a handicap for sosiel, even if it makes practical sense. the priest has the right background for intimidation and with the intimidating presence feat along with spells such as righteous might and frightening presence, you are able to boost his strength modifier to match almost any other companion in the game. a couple build-specific feat choices and sosiel, the priest o' shelyn, improbable becomes the ultimate companion intimidator... at least such is our opinion.

HA! Good Fun!

ps aside, the rumored companion

Spoiler

is indeed capable o' joining your party, which is why we mentioned the curious galfrey spawning in the battle outside threshold, where it were impossible for her to be as she were simultaneous in our party inside threshold. not rumor. related, am glad we managed to keep daeran alive as his mass heals were kinda instrumental in getting through the camp fight unscathed. didn't lose any sleep over not having camellia for that fight. she is unlikely to ever make it past act three in a future run. 

 

[Agiel]

It is now clear to me that when Ember cheerfully informed us that "Our suffering has only begun!" she was all too aware of how aneurysm-inducing the Enigma puzzles were going to be. Seriously, may there be a pox on the house of the developer who thought that what the agonisingly tedious puzzles needed was a terrible interface that makes trying to follow online guides a trial in frustration in and of itself.

[Gromnir]

 

9 hours ago, Agiel said:

It is now clear to me that when Ember cheerfully informed us that "Our suffering has only begun!" she was all too aware of how aneurysm-inducing the Enigma puzzles were going to be.

enigma is so... unnecessary. it functional duplicates, in the worst ways possible, a similar multi-step puzzle quest also in the game involving the same final bad guy (used gender neutral). coulda' integrated nenio into the other quest seamlessly and avoided considerable repetition while at same time reducing the overall soul numbing tedium. 

but what genuine shocks us a bit is that owlcat, seeming in response to numerous player comments regarding enigma frustration, has decided to make enigma more integral to a complete run o' wotr. can't fix a perceived problem, so solution is to make certain more people will need experience the aforementioned frustration? 

...

wait, what? 

HA! Good Fun!

ps with the beta update, areelu's cloak still does nothing for an angel character, and am having an issue with animal companions in tb combat as they are getting stuck during movement and/or simple not attacking at end of a move in spite o' having capacity to do so. however, when we loaded a game, we instant got 'bout eight new items added to inventory-- all those crusade battle rewards which mysteriously disappeared.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Gromnir

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

As long as that section is, there are still a lot of broken class things not listed.

[Gromnir]

8 minutes ago, Achilles said:

As long as that section is, there are still a lot of broken class things not listed.

for our azata run, am happy to see ode to miraculous magic has been addressed, but if the list is comprehensive, then there is still multiple azata broken features. 

also, it looks like a few fixes is not so much fixes as is owlcat changing the in-game description to match what is busted. 

well, is a start, and is kinda a month late to admit game is still functional in beta, but truth-to-tell, given state o' kingmaker at a similar point, and recognizing how the beta played  mere weeks before wotr release, am actual pleasant surprised with the current state o' wotr. would be nice if we could get feedback from owlcat to let us know they is aware o' and/or working on particular issues, but am guessing that ain't gonna happen. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Guest]

Topic change: is the ranged general dumb and underpowered compared to the other two options, or am I just doing it wrong?

[Gromnir]

6 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Topic change: is the ranged general dumb and underpowered compared to the other two options, or am I just doing it wrong?

dunno. after initial choosing the dwarf general in a beta run, have been all-in with mage generals... and marksmen. 

HA! Good Fun!

[ShadySands]

Same, mage generals and as many ranged units as I can muster