Gods suck, my Priest needs to 'deconvert'. Monk plus/vs Ranger plus/vs Rogue?

[SirMirrorcoat]

So, yeah, the first interaction with Berath/Magran/Skaen/Woedica/Hylea made my Priest of Berath - or me - have an existential crisis pretty much. I hated all their guts...

Now, I thought of going completely away from casterdom for my main, and instead going for 1 or 2 of my 3 favorite martial classes to micromanage (in poe1) and go into the Deadfire in Melee.

As I want to be in melee this time, for Ranger I thought that Stalker should be the sensible choice, as I like position-micromanagement. Though Ghostheart would remove the danger of Bonded Grief (although I had not much issue with this in poe1).

In that same vein, at least if combined with Stalker, Debonaire seems the best choice for a Rogue subclass. Singleclass - or with Monk - I would more likely tend towards Trickster, if only for Llengrath's Displaced Image and Gaze of the Adragan (getting it at level 19 sucks though).

Deciding on a Monk subclass proves to be quite difficult to me.
Helwalker seems pretty strong offensively but their defense would suffer whenever I have high Wounds. And combining it with a defensive multi (stalker or Trickster) seems counterintuitive as I WANT to get hit.
Nalpazca gimmick seems pretty straight forward (and Zahua was just such an awesome character), so that would probably be my default choice...
Shattered Pillar with Community Patch seems pretty simple. Could be especially strong with Trickster I assume?
And oh boi, Forbidden Fist's gimmick should be the most micro intensive of those. That doesn't even bother me one bit, what makes me a bit wary about that class is the more or less constant self damage. How bad is it to manage that in actual combat?
Mostly, I have no idea what subclass, and whether sc or mc, I should go for if Monk.

Weaponry-wise, I would prefer 2 handed weapons over DW or shield, but I am open to suggestions still.

 

My stat spread is somewhat set in stone though. Mig/Per/Int/Res will all be at least 15 (for dialogues), con and dex are more variable. With Berath's Blessing I could actually just do 15 across the board. Doesn't seem that bad of an idea I guess...

 

So, again, any advice, tips or guides are much appreciated

[Ouroboros226]

First: Good riddance I'd say. I hate priests with a passion in Deadfire. As a support and healer at least  Maybe I'm just doing it wrong.

Not sure how much you care about RP. But I think melee ranger is a cool concept, especially multiclassed with rogue which makes a scout (so you get a multiclass name that does not suck too!). Ditching the pet if you don't want to deal with it means you save a lot of skills for other stuff, ghostheart is good there. Stalker felt solid for me but I didn't play it too far.

When it comes to monk I still don't understand what the appeal is. It has a knockback and a stun, and a buff for speed. Maybe I'm blind but I can't seem to see any good damage abilities on monks. Or much fun abilities to use, but admittedly I haven't actually played one. I've looked over the monk many times TRYING to find the appeal. 

Not sure how much of a help I am, I mostly care about fun/rp/vanity first, power second then trying to strike a balance. In that regard, I think a melee stalker /w perma pet would be both fun and strong. One thing I noticed when playing ranger with pet, is that people are right in that it dies easily. Especially on higher difficulties. But only if you really neglect it. It doesn't really take as much work as people claim to keep it alive. Just keeping it in a healing aoe, or have your healer throw a heal at it now and then treating it like any other partymember was usually enough for me. My pet only died if I completely neglected it or if I sent it against very strong foes alone.   

 

If you actually put some points into pet AR/PEN and micro-manage it playing with it, it probably won't be a problem. If you like, and want to micromanage your pet, I think you'll have fun with a ranger+ 

 

[SirMirrorcoat]

Haha, yeah, you not finding appeal in Monks is quite rare for this community xD Monk is considered one of the best classes here. And at least coming from poe1 I agree with that sentiment

Shadowdancer and Wanderer are also cool class names though

But a Stalker wouldn't be a bad approach I think too. Though I have no idea where I will get my heals from xD

[Boeroer]

If you go with max RES for a Forbidden Fist and also use -x% to hostile effects duration items + -food it's no problem at all. 

The Forbidden Fist curse will be secs and the healing you get once a hostile effec expires will be higher than the self damage you suffered. 

Also: Clarity of Agony and Crucible of Suffering...

As Forbidden Fist you don't need many attack abilities besides Forbidden Fist itself. It's very strong.  

Small trick: if you have a Druid in the party the Forbidden Fist can get a lot of wounds in shirt time - when running through the Druid's Tanglefoot.

[SirMirrorcoat]

huh, Druid... I wouldn't know who to use for that, as Fassina is a nono (****ing Vailians) and Tekehu will be hard to keep, working for the RTC. Could I be one myself? Druid/FF? Or would I lose too much with the last 2 PL missing from monk?

[Boeroer]

It's not mandatory to have or be a Druid. It's just a nice little gimmick. Forbidden Fist works just fine without Tanglefoot.

You could also get a resistance against DEX afflictions (several items) and do the same with Binding Web (Wizard or Arcane Archer) - but that's also not mandatory. Forbidden Fists can generate enough wounds by themselves.

 

[SirMirrorcoat]

looking at vids for the last hour, I think I will go with the Nalpazca Monk singleclass. Nalpazca over FF because I like the gimmick more  easier to manage and more coolness factor xD

Junkie Fists The World

Wish there was any good showcase for Wanderer though, that would really interest me as well xD

Should I actually go for 15/15/15/15/15/15 or would you recommend a different spread?

[SirMirrorcoat]

And, is Alchemy important for a Nalpazca? Sin Tee's vid about one just dumps everything into Alchemy...

[Boeroer]

Alchemy lets the drugs last a lot longer. Nalpasca gets addtional Power Level for drugs on top, too. 

Also Alchemy makes stuff like healing potions supereffective so it's not a bad skill to raise. 

[dgray62]

Powerotti posted a Stalker/Nalpazca build some time ago that was very fun to play IMO. It makes use of Griffin's Blade to keep enemies permanently-dazed so that they'll under penetrate when they hit you and your pet, a bear, chosen due to the higher AR, which is important for this build. Might be worth perusing before you start your wanderer run. That said, I personally prefer FF, as I'm not very keen on using consumables regularly. When I play Nalpazcas, I tend to hoard the drugs, always saving them for "later," which means playing a gimped monk who loses wounds before I can use them in the present.

[SirMirrorcoat]

Stalker/FF seems more interesting than Stalker/Nalpazca, but for now I'll play SC Nalpazca.

[SirMirrorcoat]

What would be a good secondary weapon (decided on maining fists now after all inbstead of 2handed) for a Nalpazca? I thought Hatchets or Axe for flavor (I am a bit brutish), but am open to suggestions of any kind. Of those 2, axes seem to have the better selection of uniques

[dgray62]

For monks, I'd suggest axes, small shields, sabres and flails. The reason for this suggestion is there are some really great late game weapons of these types that you'll probably want to use, excluding the shield, which you can get really early in Neketaka. Until you get them, unarmed is of course great.

[SirMirrorcoat]

Why the shield though? Did bashing shields become DW-weapons?

Sabres are for my buddy Eder though. And flails wouldn't offer a new damage type against crush resistant/immune enemies.

[Boeroer]

Yes, bashing shields profit from Two Weapon Tyle AND Weapon and Shield Style.

The main reason for "shield for monk" is Tuotilo's Palm - because it's very good for Monks specifically. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Boeroer

[Ouroboros226]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, bashing shields profit from Two Weapon Tyle AND Weapon and Shield Style.

The main reason for "shield for monk" is Tuotilo's Palm - because it's very good for Monks specifically. 

What classifies as bashing shield? Is this a base shield type I've missed? Like sometimes I see Eder use what looks like some kind of shield slam against the skeletons in the starting cave. I know there is a shield that counts as dual wielding and shield - Is this what you are referring to. Just asking to make sure I haven't missed anything.

 

Also Boeroer, why do you have private messages off?  

Edited September 8, 2021 by Ouroboros226

[Boeroer]

50 minutes ago, Ouroboros226 said:

What classifies as bashing shield? Is this a base shield type I've missed?

The only bashing shields are Tuotilo's Palm, Magran's Blessing and The Best Defense (SSS). They count as offhand-weapon and shield. Visible because they have attack properties as part of their enchtantments. "Normal shields" only have defensive properties.

50 minutes ago, Ouroboros226 said:

Also Boeroer, why do you have private messages off?  

Ha, they are not off. My inbox was full (again). This happens quite often because the forum doesn't notify me when the inbox is full. I'll delete some older messages...

Edit: accidentially deleted all messages. Jeez, I'm too tired. Ah well...  At least there's room for new ones now. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

Tuotilo's Palm is great for monks, giving a big boost in defense with a relatively small dip in DPS. While you do less damage with the shield than you would with most weapons or an unarmed strike, the shield's damage and accuracy scales with transcendent suffering, making it not bad at all. It also gives you a +5 boost in accuracy upgrade for unarmed attacks, which will largely make up for this, especially if your main hand is unarmed. It also gives you +1 deflection and reflex per wound when upgraded.

[Boeroer]

That last part is the real gem.

[Dejnov]

Does anyone have any good ideas for a healer class that isn't a priest? I also kind of hate most of the gods and would like to just avoid them and their petty squabbles on my next Deadfire run.

 

Dejnov.

 

[Haplok]

15 hours ago, SirMirrorcoat said:

Sabres are for my buddy Eder though. 

Particularly one infamous late game pirate saber, the availability of which depends on a certain choice in a faction questline can be ridiculously strong on a monk with his Flurry/HBD multiattacks.

Its good for most characters, mind you. But a monk (preferably one who can extend his buffs - like a monk/wizard with Wall of Draining OR has a priest with Salvation of Time in the party) can really make it shine.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Haplok

[Haplok]

Sorry for double post

Edited September 9, 2021 by Haplok
Double post

[Haplok]

On 9/7/2021 at 7:19 PM, Ouroboros226 said:

When it comes to monk I still don't understand what the appeal is. It has a knockback and a stun, and a buff for speed. Maybe I'm blind but I can't seem to see any good damage abilities on monks. Or much fun abilities to use, but admittedly I haven't actually played one. I've looked over the monk many times TRYING to find the appeal. 

I was in your boat. I also did not see the appeal of monk. But it changed after I actually tried playing one. Those abilities like Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming look pretty innocent. But then you see him make 10 attacks in one action and squishy enemies explode outright when targeted by a monk. It doesn't work THAT good versus tough enemies. But in practice often the squishies are the biggest threat and should be eliminated fast.

After that, killing meatwalls is just wrap-up that takes more time. Time a FF can save, btw. with his Enfeebled - can't heal AT ALL affliction (and long lasting debuffs). Plus endlessly renewable resources (not just wounds, their generation can be kinda slow at first - particularly on a FF (it improves A LOT later on, though), but also limitless CC with Stunning Surge full attacks. Then the SC monk end game abilities are simply ridiculous...

Edited September 9, 2021 by Haplok

[Faraleth]

17 hours ago, SirMirrorcoat said:

What would be a good secondary weapon (decided on maining fists now after all inbstead of 2handed) for a Nalpazca?

the one and only https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Tuotilo's_Palm

this bad madafaka get all the bonuses of your fists, also it gives you the bonuses of both Dual Wielding AND Shield Style, and on top of everything Balanced Shield mod is very op too.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Faraleth

[Boeroer]

Monks are the strongest martial class imo, they are great as multiclass as well as single class in all sorts of roles and combos (not even in martial ones). Overall it's just a very well rounded and effective set of subclasses.

I mean...

Edited September 9, 2021 by Boeroer