The All things Political Topic - The Night never knew that its end was fleet.

[Gorth]

25 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

”there are chords in the heart of even the most reckless which cannot be touched without emotion, even by the utterly lost, to whom life and death are equally jests, there are matters of which no jest can be made”

Edgar Allen Poe

That guys was obviously not Danish

[Guard Dog]

12 minutes ago, Gorth said:

That guys was obviously not Danish

No he was a chronic depresseive who self medicated with alcohol. So kind of close LOL

Edited August 26, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Gromnir]

is it quote time, cause we got one.

“when the Gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.”--oscar wilde, an ideal husband

seeing as how the biden thing is wasington times, we would want more context before passing judgement. that said, for those who demanded for years we abandon afghanistan asap, even when recognizing the savagery o' the taliban, to so quick turn on the guy who finally gave 'em what they asked for is at least deserving the feckless label, though we will stop short o' "absolute f——-g a———e." no sooner were prayers answered than the wailing began, eh?

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

7 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

is it quote time, cause we got one.

“when the Gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.”--oscar wilde, an ideal husband

seeing as how the biden thing is wasington times, we would want more context before passing judgement. that said, for those who demanded for years we abandon afghanistan asap, even when recognizing the savagery o' the taliban, to so quick turn on the guy who finally gave 'em what they asked for is at least deserving the feckless label, though we will stop short o' "absolute f——-g a———e." no sooner were prayers answered than the wailing began, eh?

HA! Good Fun!

You don’t joke about leaving Americans stranded in a place like Afghanistan because your administration is incapable of planning a proper withdrawal.

He has caught a lot of flak that he doesn’t deserve. Mainly all the US weapons that were now in the hands of the Taliban. They were not abandoned by the US military they were abandoned by the Afghan army. That’s a distinction that seems to be lost at all of the people gleefully reporting how well armed the Taliban is now.

But when military leaves if even a single American is left behind and then publicly executed by the Taliban or one of the terrorist groups that man will be politically dead. If he isn’t already. God knows he deserves to be. They are already preparing for that eventuality. What do you think they mean by “we will evacuate every American who wants to leave“. They are already preparing to look the country in the eye and say anyone who was left behind obviously didn’t want to leave.
 

Well also one thing. Our previous president made Nixon look honest. Our current president is making Carter look strong. Bidens stupid little smirks and Harrises incessant cackling when asked questions about this disaster they are leading are doing them and their office is no credit.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Raithe]

From a couple of years ago, but possibly more relevant...

 

 

[Gromnir]

gd knew they were savages. gd had to know that it were possible americans would be killed during the withdrawal 'cause no plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first encounter with the main enemy forces. only the layman believes that in the course of a campaign he sees the consistent implementation of an original thought that has been considered in advance in every detail and retained to the end. you knew many thousands o' afghanistan women would be facing functional slavery once the taliban regained power.  you knew many afghanistan citizens would be murdered 'cause they supported americans these past two decades. you knew. nevertheless, you draw the line at a single us fatality? gotta be careful using that feckless label 'cause it could have much broader application than you want. 

US intelligence (and numerous foreign intelligence services as well given how similar unprepared were germany and the uk and others) underestimated the extent to which individual afghanistan political leaders and military commanders would cut deals with the taliban. were a whole lotta mistakes starting with the trump administration negotiation/surrender and biden's similar embrace o' a hard deadline. mistakes were gonna happen. this too were known, but somebody is gonna need explain the multiple failures o' the withdrawal... though we assume gd doesn't want an investigation o' any kind 'cause what would be the point, yes? 

regardless, this post hoc handwringing and finger pointing would be more convincing if it weren't looking like just another excuse to advance your favorite narrative.

and again, washington times is not the most reliable source. am gonna need context. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

Being killed in the evacuation is not the same thing as being killed after being left behind.

[Guard Dog]

7 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

gd knew they were savages. gd had to know that it were possible americans would be killed during the withdrawal 'cause no plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first encounter with the main enemy forces. only the layman believes that in the course of a campaign he sees the consistent implementation of an original thought that has been considered in advance in every detail and retained to the end. you knew many thousands o' afghanistan women would be facing functional slavery once the taliban regained power.  you knew many afghanistan citizens would be murdered 'cause they supported americans these past two decades. you knew. nevertheless, you draw the line at a single us fatality? gotta be careful using that feckless label 'cause it could have much broader application than you want. 

US intelligence (and numerous foreign intelligence services as well given how similar unprepared were germany and the uk and others) underestimated the extent to which individual afghanistan political leaders and military commanders would cut deals with the taliban. were a whole lotta mistakes starting with the trump administration negotiation/surrender and biden's similar embrace o' a hard deadline. mistakes were gonna happen. this too were known, but somebody is gonna need explain the multiple failures o' the withdrawal... though we assume gd doesn't want an investigation o' any kind 'cause what would be the point, yes? 

regardless, this post hoc handwringing and finger pointing would be more convincing if it weren't looking like just another excuse to advance your favorite narrative.

and again, washington times is not the most reliable source. am gonna need context. 

HA! Good Fun!

Newsweek good enough?

[Gromnir]

14 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Being killed in the evacuation is not the same thing as being killed after being left behind.

whatever helps you sleep at night. you knew many thousands were gonna suffer and die. you were ok with those deaths and the predictable suffering o' the multitudes which coulda' been avoided for the foreseeable future. you advocated for the mass suffering and widespread murders to happen sooner as 'posed to later. one american dies in what were predictable gonna be a botched withdrawal (though admitted the scale o' just how botched has been the withdrawal is demanding an investigation no less than an attack on the US Capitol in which more than 140 cops were injured and sever beaten) and you see inevitable and deserved political death... in spite o' the fact the botched vietnam withdrawal would suggest otherwise. 

am not sure if we would suggest newsweek is better. 

"when the Gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers."

HA! Good Fun!

ps based on newsweek context, there appears to be a mischaracterization o' the biden comments as he ain't joking 'bout or minimizing the deaths o' americans. appears he is taking a shot at a journalist, no? is some mental gymnastics required, but you wanna get to the point where biden is proved feckless so your earlier ridiculous labeling is functional redeemed. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Gromnir

[Gromnir]

and just so is clear, recall it were Gromnir who criticized biden for following through with the trump negotiation including the  brobdingnagian stoopid hard deadline. we saw calamity in the making and unnecessary suffering, but we understood there would be a few people, particular veterans, who genuine believe no more american deaths, no matter how few, is worth an additional day in afghanistan, much less years. am not a biden supporter regarding the handling o' afghanistan. am understanding why some support his decision even if am more conflicted.

however, am recognizing just how unfair is much o' the venom being directed at biden. sure, we disagreed with biden implementation o' withdrawal, but as a young Congressman biden also reported to President Ford that vietnam were hopeless and that a withdrawal were the best course o' action. consistant. am recognizing biden in 2021 made a hard choice which were not supported by his military advisors and that he had to know that american deaths were possible during the withdrawl and that he would be blamed for those deaths as well as the suffering o' millions in afghanistan.

biden made a hard choice and am thinking people are stretching themselves in impossible directions to make him a different villain than he is. given the fact biden's son served honorable in the US military and the POTUS is obvious proud o' his son's, service, suggesting biden is lacking respect for americans serving abroad is bordering on the unbelievable. 

incompetent? possible. we get the incompetent argument given how bungled has been the withdrawal even though as already noted multiple other nations were clear caught similar unawares.

feckless? please.

HA! Good Fun!

[Amentep]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

I was wrong about Joe Biden. Earlier I called him a “feckless idiot“. That doesn’t really describe him at all. He’s an absolute f——-g a———e. 

Biden jokes about stranding Americans in Afghanistan

I see why the staff cut his mic.

”there are chords in the heart of even the most reckless which cannot be touched without emotion, even by the utterly lost, to whom life and death are equally jests, there are matters of which no jest can be made”

Edgar Allen Poe

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I heard, the mic was cut because they'd announced the press conference was over and were trying to get the reporters to leave (before it cuts you can hear someone saying, loudly, "Okay, thank you, let's go...let's go).  And this a reporter asks the President a question which he ignores, and the guy asks again and the President gives the guy a flip answer (after the mic has cut out).

...

Why is there furor over this again?  I guess if he'd just ignored the reporter he'd be 'dodging hard questions'; if he said 'we're not ready to discuss our plans' he'd be accused of having no plans; if he said "I'm not going to answer that at this time" he'd be accused of having forgotten the plan.  Instead, he made a flip comment and now he's President Satan.

Don't get it.

[Gromnir]

based on the newsweek article, the worst accusation we may level at biden is that he were condescending to a reporter. POTUS took the opportunity to deliver a less than mature parting shot w/o giving the reporter a chance to respond.

*gasp*

whatever is the mistake biden made, is not as gd and the washington times clickbait headline described.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Guard Dog]

The reporter asked about what would happen if there were still Americans there after the deadline. So Biden thought he’d make a little joke about that. That is not funny. The fate that likely awaits someone in that situation is not a laughing matter. And the decisions he made are largely responsible for their condition. Not that he decided to withdraw. But the haphazard way in which it was executed.

Like I said, joking about that makes you a f——-g a——-e. You guys would be far less forgiving if the last idiot had done the exact same thing.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Guard Dog

[ComradeYellow]

Explosion at Kabul airport, casualties confirmed.  It's unknown who the assailants were at this point, but I've heard various sources say different things that it was British military, American Marines, and the Taliban who were the victims so I'm guessing it was an independent terror group.

Edit:  Yup I was right, those cool-headed Russians are quite good at pinpointing culprits real quick.  Looks like ISIS-K was responsible for this, an ISIS detachment that's planning future attacks in south and central Asia.

Edited August 26, 2021 by ComradeYellow

[Malcador]

14 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

The reporter asked about what would happen if there were still Americans there after the deadline. So Biden thought he’d make a little joke about that. That is not funny. The fate that likely awaits someone in that situation is not a laughing matter. And the decisions he made are largely responsible for their condition. Not that he decided to withdraw. But the haphazard way in which it was executed.

Like I said, joking about that makes you a f——-g a——-e. You guys would be far less forgiving if the last idiot had done the exact same thing.

Well he's being a tool to the reporter not joking about dead Americans or anything.  Still is unprofessional though, although wonder what the reporter wanted for an answer - detailed plans ?

[Gromnir]

Just now, Guard Dog said:

The reporter asked about what would happen if there were still Americans there after the deadline. So Biden thought he’d make a little joke about that. That is not funny. The fate that likely awaits someone in that situation is not a laughing matter. And the decisions he made are largely responsible for their condition. Not that he decided to withdraw. But the haphazard way in which it was executed.

the quip were decide not about those left behind. you are reaching to make this story fit into your larger narrative o' they are all bad. the feckless charge is inappropriate given the context, and surely the "absolute f——-g a———e," is at best (am giving you the benefit o' the doubt) unwarranted. 

the withdrawal, haphazard or otherwise, were gonna result in the unnecessary deaths and suffering o' many thousands in afghanistan and the possibility o' at least a few american casualties, given your recognition o' the savagery o' the taliban, were hardly unthinkable. you were ok with such a reality and your previous complaint were it didn't happen sooner. even so, we can see an argument for incompetence, but obviously we will never be certain who made pivotal errors 'cause investigations are a waste.

prayers granted.

 

[Guard Dog]

1 minute ago, Gromnir said:

the quip were decide not about those left behind. you are reaching to make this story fit into your larger narrative o' they are all bad. the feckless charge is inappropriate given the context, and surely the "absolute f——-g a———e," is at best (am giving you the benefit o' the doubt) unwarranted. 

the withdrawal, haphazard or otherwise, were gonna result in the unnecessary deaths and suffering o' many thousands in afghanistan and the possibility o' at least a few american casualties, given your recognition o' the savagery o' the taliban, were hardly unthinkable. you were ok with such a reality and your previous complaint were it didn't happen sooner. even so, we can see an argument for incompetence, but obviously we will never be certain who made pivotal errors 'cause investigations are a waste.

prayers granted.

 

Had they withdrawn after destroying the Taliban government and just given the country back to the tribal leaders there would’ve been no American civilians there to evacuate. But that is Roads not taken

[Malcador]

Canada ended our evacuation somewhat early.   https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-afghanistan-last-flight-1.6153899

Still surprised Canadians would not have GTFO of that country way earlier.

[Amentep]

19 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

The reporter asked about what would happen if there were still Americans there after the deadline. So Biden thought he’d make a little joke about that. That is not funny. The fate that likely awaits someone in that situation is not a laughing matter. And the decisions he made are largely responsible for their condition. Not that he decided to withdraw. But the haphazard way in which it was executed.

So, from my perspective one of the big issues with the current events is that they broadcast what they were going to do and set hard deadlines to do it, so you think its a good idea for the President to...continue to broadcast their plans to the media?  He'd ignored the question once - maybe he should just leave the room?  

Alrighty then.  To me this was a reporter taking an opportunity (at a press conference on Cybersecurity, not Afghanastain) to try and get a gotcha question in.  He knew Biden either wouldn't or couldn't answer, and anything Biden did could be made to make him look bad.  He leaves - he looks bad, he makes a vague statement he's waffling, he shuts down the question with a flip answer he's President Satan.  Frankly Biden looks bad enough without help, and in my opinion this is a lot of ado about nothing.

19 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Like I said, joking about that makes you a f——-g a——-e. You guys would be far less forgiving if the last idiot had done the exact same thing.

The last idiot just stopped having press conferences.  Heck this doesn't even rate - for me at least - near Hilary Clinton's Benghazi "they're dead, get over it"* moment.

*paraphrased.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

55 minutes ago, Amentep said:

now he's President Satan.

If only.

Anyways in the last 20 years a bit less than 6500 Americans died in Afghanistan, the bulk of them contractors. There were weeks where the rona took more than that, and it continues to kill hundreds daily as more variations keep popping up. I'm wondering if some of the folks currently wailing at ol Joe are going to make that a priority any time soon, because it seems a lot of them really don't give two tugs on a dead dog's **** about dead bodies piling up.

[ComradeYellow]

4 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

because it seems a lot of them really don't give two tugs on a dead dog's **** about dead bodies piling up.

Of course not, they're only focused on "The Image".  Americans have always been obsessed more with how they're perceived rather than let the numbers do the talking.

[Gromnir]

1 minute ago, Guard Dog said:

Had they withdrawn after destroying the Taliban government and just given the country back to the tribal leaders there would’ve been no American civilians there to evacuate. But that is Roads not taken

such an observation has no relevance in deciding what were the right choice in 2020 and 2021. withdrawal were not gonna resurrect the dead, but you were certain withdrawal were gonna result in the suffering o' thousands (millions?) in afghanistan and you had to be aware at least a few americans could suffer during a withdrawal. am indeed questioning your indignation. am suspecting that no matter the reality, you were gonna complain in spite of having had your prayers granted.

biden indulges in a bit o' snark with a reporter and you see as proof he is an, "absolute f——-g a———e?" unfair. have personal not been a biden supporter regarding afghanistan, but your misdirected attacks compel us to defend a guy with whom we disagree.

HA! Good Fun!

[rjshae]

I think the Administration did plan for an eventual evacuation. Just not this one. You can tell by just how much they dawdled over extracting the Afghan interpreters. I didn't have an issue with the US decision to withdraw; some President was going to do it eventually. But this now looks like a bureaucratic failure at multiple levels. It may also mean we get stuck with that fool Trump for another term.

[Malcador]

US troops killed too.

[ComradeYellow]

28 minutes ago, rjshae said:

It may also mean we get stuck with that fool Trump for another term.

I still hope this guy runs in 2024 as an Independent, though I was gravely disappointed he backed out in 2020.  He's like a more left wing egalitarian version of Trump.

What I mean by that is they both have really aggressive populist rhetoric that can resonate very well with certain sections of society, I'd just prefer someone who isn't racist or sexist and actually has experience in government AND military.  Who better to carry the transitional Peace/Love/Dope torch?