Need Help deciding to make a War Caller (Tactician/Bellower or Troubadour) or a Howler (Berserker or Furyshaper/Bellower or Troubadour)

[Jae Addison]

Hi, I've decided to try and make a melee chanter and decided to go with War Caller, I've decided to go with tactician for the fighter subclass as I would go devoted but I hate being locked into one weapon type , and I am trying to choose between Bellower and Troubadour for the chanter side of the multiclass, If not war caller I was thinking a Howler with either berserker or Furyshaper for the barbarian side and Bellower and or Troubadour for the chanter side, I would really appreciate the advice and help in deciding . 

P.S. is godlike worth losing a helm slot?

Edited August 5, 2021 by Jae Addison
Need to add more info

[Carys]

I personally prefer Skald for a melee chanter, since it builds phases via melee crits, and a melee chanter tends to generate lots of them.  That said, I think any of the subclasses would work just fine for it, it's really a personal preference.  I've done full playthroughs with Skald - Skald/fighter and Skald/pally and I've never had issues with phrase generation at all.

[Boeroer]

Berserker/Skald or Furyshaper/Skald are great imo. Very nice "on the fly" fortitude debuffing with The Long Night's Drink + Spirit Frenzy (substituted with Morning Star + modal - Willbreaker is great). Together with Ben Fidel's Neck (stacks with all individual defense debuffs) you can lower enemies Fortitude by 55 points which is not only good for your party but also for your crits because you will pick Brute Force. Nice complementing weapon: Pike for the deflection debuff (Ngati's Tusk with max Survival is a supergood debuffing tool, too). You can always attack the lower of the two defenses, deflection or fortitude which leads to a lot more crits.

 

[dgray62]

I'd second the Berserker/skald suggestion. There's great synergy in this combo. In addition to those Boeroer mentioned, the Berserker's hit to crit conversion also helps. The Old Siec chant will also help keep you alive late game when the raw damage from frenzy gets heftier.

[Jae Addison]

Hmm I see, so either fury shaper or beserker would work, but what about tactician /bellower, wouldn't that also have great synergy?, seeing as tactician gets brilliant and bellower gets higher PL with each phrase it obtains, which would allow you to constantly dish out incredibly powerful invocations?

[yabadaba]

I second Boeroer's fortitude debuffing Berzerker idea. I still haven't finished this game after restarting 1264712 times. Berzerker/Troubadour has been really fun, especially once you get to level 16 and can get the energized inspiration from that one invocation, Champion's something or other, because then every time The Long Night's Drink crits someone, you interrupt them, so you can aoe interrupt while zerker bonking priority targets with the Willbreaker. 

I'm at max level going through Beast of Winter, and it is a bit less effective right now because of all the high Fortitude enemies, but overall it's a very satisfying build.

I've always loved 'offensive aura' type builds. I first saw the concept back in Diablo 2 with the Paladin's damaging auras, and was hooked on the idea since. In PoE I was in love with the Dragon Thrashed chanter and was really disappointed in how lame DT was in PoE2. This build sort of lets me recreate that character by being a walking AoE menace, although its with debuffs and interrupts instead of ridiculous damage this time around. This is why I chose Troubadour instead of Skald, I wanted to be able to potentially interrupt targets every 3s (Brisk Chant) instead of every 6s. Honestly I think Skald would have ended up being more powerful overall with Berzerker, but if you like the AoE menace idea Troubadour is great.

[Boeroer]

Bellower can do that on their own. The additional Power Level from Brilliant is negligible and the phrase generation from Brilliant isn't that good - at least that's what I "theorize". 

Imo Brilliant isn't very attractive for Chanters because they regain resources anyway.

I think the best synergy with Tacticians are classes that normally wouldn't regain resources. 

But on the other hand I never tried a Tactician/Bellower, so maybe my thinking is wrong and it is good synergy.  Maybe the Tactician can not only deliver phrases and Power Level but also fill the gap between invocations with useful actions from his refilling Discipline (like Clear Out or something). Whispers of the Endless Paths with Mule Kick could be a good tool, too. It causes flanked and interrupts which might regain you Discipline and also might trigger Brilliant. And it's cone-shaped like your invocations, to targeting is the same with both classes' actions sort of. 

But what first comes to (my) mind when thinking about a powerful Bellower combo is Helwalker/Bellower. High MIG for more invocation damage, high Accuracy from Enduring Dance, high INT for better linger time, bigger AoEs and longer durations. And refilling Wounds. 

For Tactician imo the best multiclass partner is Wizard. Can flank a lot of enemies on its own from level 1 on (Chillfog) and the regaining spell uses are very valuable.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Boeroer

[Ranndar]

Sorry for being off topic, but talking about Berserker, what do you guys think about a Berserker/Trickster? 

[Boeroer]

4 hours ago, Ranndar said:

Sorry for being off topic, but talking about Berserker, what do you guys think about a Berserker/Trickster? 

Bit unusual, but why not. Mirrored Images/Displaced Image could counter Frenzy's -10 deflection. You'd still need some external healing source bc of Frenzy - at least until you get Savage Defiance. Or use potions.

[NotDumbEnough]

9 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Imo Brilliant isn't very attractive for Chanters because they regain resources anyway.

I think the best synergy with Tacticians are classes that normally wouldn't regain resources.

Brilliant on a Skald is quite nice due to their higher efficiency in using phrases. With Brilliant you can just spam low level invocations over and over at a much faster rate. It was very noticeable on my Tactician/Skald, though I found that it severely lacked in single target damage.

[Boeroer]

Yeah, good point. Maybe next time combine with Blightheart (+Sure Handed Ila +Mith Fyr)? Single target damage will be good then (-20% reloading speed twice and a lash) and you'll get +1 phrases for any kill (weapon or spell). Sure, the Skald's "phrase-on-50%crit" passive won't trigger, but I think it doesn't need to. Tried this weapon setup with a Berserker/Skald and it's fun. Brilliant + phrase on kill might be really nice for spamming stuff like Her Revenge...?

Edited August 6, 2021 by Boeroer

[Jae Addison]

I see OK I'll go Furyshaper/Skald, are their any invocations or passives and gear that you recommend for this build, also if I chose nature godlike to obtain the Hardy and Tenacious inspiration that berserker subclass gives, would furyshaper still be a just as a good of a choice as beserker?

Lastly would dual wielding or 2h be better for a Howler?

Edited August 7, 2021 by Jae Addison
Need to add more info

[Boeroer]

30 minutes ago, Jae Addison said:

if I chose nature godlike to obtain the Hardy and Tenacious inspiration that berserker subclass gives, would furyshaper still be a just as a good of a choice as beserker?

What do you mean? You cannot obtain Hardy and Tenacious with a Nature Godlike.

Berserker gets Hardy + Tenacious while other Barbs get Fit + Strong. Wellspring of Life (from Nature Godlike) does not change that. You can become Energized (which is one tier better than Tenacious) with "The Champion Braved the Horde Alone" invocation later. Or you equip Slayer's Claw (Battle Axe) before casting Frenzy. It upgrades all Might inspirations by one tier when they get applied. But that's a late game item. 

Berserker is tricky at first because your chants will affect enemies and friendly alike once you are confused (meaning once you use Frenzy). You want to get rid of confusion as soon as possible (e.g. with a Priest who casts Prayer for the Spirit, Svef, Luminous Lobster, Devil of Caroc Breastplate etc.). Besides that Berserker/Skald is a great combo for more crits = more phrases.

Furyshaper leans more into the debuffing/CC aspect. The Fear Ward is really strong when used right. But you need some levels until you get it. Berserker's bonuses will be there right from the start. 

I'd use the following abilities with such a character:

Spirit Frenzy (don't upgrade to Spirit Tornado*), The Long Night's Drink, Ben Fidel's Neck, Brute Force, Bloodlust, Blood Thirst, Bloody Slaughter, Her Revenge, Weapon Proficiency Morning Star (Body Blows). I would use Barbaric Smash a certain finisher because it would cost no Rage then and the chance for a crit will be higher (= higher chance for a phrase). 

I would wield the Willbreaker Morning Star, wear the Devil of Caroc's Breastplate and the Helm of the Falcon. Gauntlets of Greater Reliability (combined with Willbreaker's "Make them Flinch" enchantment and Miss-to-Graze food most of times), Ring of Prosperity once you have lots of gold. 

Don't forget to pick an "expensive" invocation at some point. Your max phrase pool/counter is determined by your most expensive invocation. If you only pick invocation that cost 2 phrases your max phrase counter will be 2. If you pick a non-offensive invocation that would normally cost 4 (5 for Skalds) your max phrase counter will be 5. It can make sense to pick one very expensive invocation because of that even if you don't plan to use it much (although stuff like Animated Weapons is always great to have). 

* Spirit Frenzy staggers with every hit, including offensive phrases like The Long Night's Drink or stuff like Barbaric Shout, Her Revenge, even Carnage etc. Once you upgrade to Spirit Tornado it will lose that property and only stagger with weapon attacks. So keep Spirit Frenzy.

 

Then there's an extremely potent Howler we haven't talked about yet: Berserker/Beckoner with Grave Calling (sabre). Killing your own skeletons for many, many Chillfog procs, paralyzing and killing enemies "on the fly". This is a different beast though and it can really crash your game because of too many visual effects. I have not found an easy way to let the game run smoothly with this. Maybe a mod that takes away the VFX from Chilling Grave could do this.  

 

 

 

 

[Jae Addison]

Nice thx for the advice, lastly I was wondering how good is a harbinger multiclass?

[dgray62]

13 hours ago, Jae Addison said:

Nice thx for the advice, lastly I was wondering how good is a harbinger multiclass?

I had fun playing an assassin bellower using the blightheart arquebus. You attack from stealth with the gun, then go invisible with smoke veil, and then attack from stealth with an invocation such as Her Revenge. Between the assassinate bonuses and the bellower's increased PLs your attacks will melt most enemies. And with blightheart, you get a phrase back for each kill, so you can just repeat the above until everyone's dead. It's great fun if you like the solo sneaky approach to the game. However, if you try this, don't upgrade Blightheart to level 3 (by killing 10 enemies with empowered attacks). This is because corrupting beauty breaks stealth, and makes the weapon unusable for this toon.