The all things Poltical topic - We bear our banners aloft, boots like Drums Our Cadence quick, our countenance dire.

[Raithe]

Double Post

Edited May 19, 2021 by Raithe

[BruceVC]

39 minutes ago, Raithe said:

Politics or philosophy? (technically, that's a quote from neo-Nazi Kevin Strom, not Voltaire. For some reason it keeps getting mis-quoted)

I would say it can be both as its  political in some countries without freedom of speech but its philosophical in Democracies with freedom of speech ? 

[Guard Dog]

The Babylon Bee is starting to sound less and less like satire and more like real news every day. Because they kind of hit the nail on the head with this one.

If it were up to me it’s past time we as a country turned our backs on that whole sorry mess. They’re going to kill each other no matter what. We don’t have to help them and we don’t have to stop them.

[Gfted1]

Sure is beautiful when its firing. We should park batteries of those everywhere. Wonder how hard it would be to adapt it to shipboard use? I cant wait until we have multiple turret laser batteries!

[BruceVC]

11 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

The Babylon Bee is starting to sound less and less like satire and more like real news every day. Because they kind of hit the nail on the head with this one.

If it were up to me it’s past time we as a country turned our backs on that whole sorry mess. They’re going to kill each other no matter what. We don’t have to help them and we don’t have to stop them.

I have never been convinced of arguments that countries like the USA are to blame for wars because US companies sell weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia or Israel

The global arms trade exists because governments want weapons, if the US wasnt selling weapons to Israel dont you think many other countries would be more than happy to sell them weapons? Russia, China, France or the UK would happily sell them what they wanted

You cant blame the company or country selling the weapons ....we should blame the people who want the weapons. Its the same as the war on drugs, it can never be won when their is demand

[BruceVC]

19 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Sure is beautiful when its firing. We should park batteries of those everywhere. Wonder how hard it would be to adapt it to shipboard use? I cant wait until we have multiple turret laser batteries!

They can be used to quell and subdue violent BLM\Antifa protests....you never know when you may get overrun !!!  

[Gfted1]

5 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

They can be used to quell and subdue violent BLM\Antifa protests....you never know when you may get overrun !!!  

Nah, thats like swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. Once my idea of pepper spray firing net equipped drones "takes off" it will be much easier to disperse and detain protesters.

[Guard Dog]

30 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I have never been convinced of arguments that countries like the USA are to blame for wars because US companies sell weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia or Israel

The global arms trade exists because governments want weapons, if the US wasnt selling weapons to Israel dont you think many other countries would be more than happy to sell them weapons? Russia, China, France or the UK would happily sell them what they wanted

You cant blame the company or country selling the weapons ....we should blame the people who want the weapons. Its the same as the war on drugs, it can never be won when their is demand

The point isn’t that US arms companies are selling arms abroad. The point is that foreign nations are using US financial aid to buy them. Biden releases the freeze on Iranian assets And suddenly Hamas has money to build new rockets. Maybe that’s a coincidence. Maybe there are green mice on Mars.

One of the first things I would do as president not that the president has the power to do this but bear with me here is cut off all foreign aid. Every dime, every nickel, every penny. Far more often than not such aid is used to kill people then to help them.

[BruceVC]

11 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

The point isn’t that US arms companies are selling arms abroad. The point is that foreign nations are using US financial aid to buy them. Biden releases the freeze on Iranian assets And suddenly Hamas has money to build new rockets. Maybe that’s a coincidence. Maybe there are green mice on Mars.

One of the first things I would do as president not that the president has the power to do this but bear with me here is cut off all foreign aid. Every dime, every nickel, every penny. Far more often than not such aid is used to kill people then to help them.

Yes you have raised a good point, the hardliners in Iran also  used the money ,$300 billion more or less, released by Obama after the Nuclear Deal to continue to stabilize the ME. For example they invested and tested ballistic missiles which now have the range to target anywhere in the ME . This is why both Israel and the Gulf States ( led by Saudi Arabia ) are united in their concern as seeing the current hardline government in Iran as the enemy 

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/23/middleeast/iran-ballistic-missile-test/index.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/iran-test-fires-ballistic-missile-capable-carrying-warheads-pompeo-says-n942586

 

[BruceVC]

34 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Nah, thats like swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. Once my idea of pepper spray firing net equipped drones "takes off" it will be much easier to disperse and detain protesters.

Its actually a very good idea using drones as opposed to only utilizing police to help subdue violent protestors....now we just need a  state to test it on. I suggest California because they threatened to secede after Trump won the election and that is illegal and treasonous !!!! Remember Gfted1 you guys fought a civil war over secession ....people seem to have forgotten that 

https://www.5newsonline.com/article/news/local/outreach/back-to-school/californians-campaign-to-secede-from-the-us-after-trump-victory/527-92f43ecd-15ac-4c38-8fb9-ed9a52ca9356

I am sure Hurlshot will agree it makes sense in the interests of the rule of law and order 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by BruceVC

[Gfted1]

31 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

...cut off all foreign aid. Every dime, every nickel, every penny. Far more often than not such aid is used to kill people then to help them.

I dont generally agree with how Israel was created, but I think one of the reasons that we continue to prop them up is "its better to fight a war over there than here".

[Guard Dog]

Five Oregon counties vote to join Idaho

This is largely symbolic. Those goddamn Liberty hating Democrats in Salem are never going to allow this to happen. They might hate the “deplorable” hicks east of the mountains. But they love their tax dollars and will never let them go.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Guard Dog

[BruceVC]

9 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Five Oregon counties vote to join Idaho

This is largely symbolic. Those goddamn Liberty hating Democrats in Salem are never going to allow this to happen. They might hate the “deplorable” hicks east of the mountains. But they love their tax dollars and will never let them go.

But also imagine the levels of bedlam if counties could just vote to join another state, peoples political views tend to vacillate so imagine if you allow this and 10 years from now the counties become more blue ....what then? Would they come back to Oregon ?

[Guard Dog]

It’s been done before. Kentucky used to be part of Virginia. West Virginia used to be part of Virginia. Maine used to be part of Massachusetts. Although all of those had compelling reasons other than current political climate for making those moves. Making Maine  a state was a slavery compromise. West Virginia refused to leave the union wind Virginia did so they broke off. 
 

but actually I can see their beef though. Most of the population in complete control of the state legislature in governors mansion is west of the Cascades. They feel like they are second class citizens in their home state. And are treated as such as often as that. All of the money is on the other side of the mountains. Gromnir brought up the water problems in Southern Oregon the other day. There are no good answers to that but it’s hard to argue the folks in Salem are making it worse not better . 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

Biden releases the freeze on Iranian assets And suddenly Hamas has money to build new rockets. Maybe that’s a coincidence. Maybe there are green mice on Mars.

Hamas has been stockpiling rockets for several years now. Actually, since the last major flare up. It seems to happen whenever Netanyahu faces jail time... this time he poked the bee hive by evicting people from their homes in the occupied parts of Jerusalem and and using a lot of force when people protested about their homes being literally stolen from them. Because the tensions weren't severe enough, he ordered the police to raid the Al Aqsa Mosque with guns and tear gas (an action that looks like it has had the surprising effect of making new best friends of Saudi Arabia and Iran). Netanyahu got what he wanted, a few hundred dead Palestinians, half which are women and children of all ages. He doesn't have to worry about jail as long as he can keep the military campaign in Gaza going.

https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-israel-748a13f933111e2341fcf1d01f86bdb7

"Just over a week ago, the longtime Israeli leader’s political career seemed all but over. He had failed to form a coalition government following an indecisive parliamentary election, and his political rivals were on the cusp of pushing him out of office."

At which point, many years of accumulated corruption charges seems to wait for him....

 

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

One of the first things I would do as president not that the president has the power to do this but bear with me here is cut off all foreign aid. Every dime, every nickel, every penny. Far more often than not such aid is used to kill people then to help them.

Why cut off your influence on other nations, though.

[Guard Dog]

1 minute ago, Gorth said:

Hamas has been stockpiling rockets for several years now. Actually, since the last major flare up. It seems to happen whenever Netanyahu faces jail time... this time he poked the bee hive by evicting people from their homes in the occupied parts of Jerusalem and and using a lot of force when people protested about their homes being literally stolen from them. Because the tensions weren't severe enough, he ordered the police to raid the Al Aqsa Mosque with guns and tear gas (an action that looks like it has had the surprising effect of making new best friends of Saudi Arabia and Iran). Netanyahu got what he wanted, a few hundred dead Palestinians, half which are women and children of all ages. He doesn't have to worry about jail as long as he can keep the military campaign in Gaza going.

https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-israel-748a13f933111e2341fcf1d01f86bdb7

"Just over a week ago, the longtime Israeli leader’s political career seemed all but over. He had failed to form a coalition government following an indecisive parliamentary election, and his political rivals were on the cusp of pushing him out of office."

At which point, many years of accumulated corruption charges seems to wait for him....

 

Villains on one side, villains on the other. Villains on the outside helping them both. Better to just walk away and wash our hands of all of it. To hell with all of them.

[Guard Dog]

5 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Why cut off your influence on other nations, though.

In the 1990s up to the Obama years the US gave China over $1B in aide every two years on average. Obama cut that to tens of millions. The use that to build the second largest Navy on earth that they are using to threaten to go to war with us over Taiwan. How much influence did all that taxpayer earn money actually buy?  Think about that ****. American citizens worked to earn the money that will buy the weapons that may be used to kill their children on the battlefield.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Guard Dog

[BruceVC]

11 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Hamas has been stockpiling rockets for several years now. Actually, since the last major flare up. It seems to happen whenever Netanyahu faces jail time... this time he poked the bee hive by evicting people from their homes in the occupied parts of Jerusalem and and using a lot of force when people protested about their homes being literally stolen from them. Because the tensions weren't severe enough, he ordered the police to raid the Al Aqsa Mosque with guns and tear gas (an action that looks like it has had the surprising effect of making new best friends of Saudi Arabia and Iran). Netanyahu got what he wanted, a few hundred dead Palestinians, half which are women and children of all ages. He doesn't have to worry about jail as long as he can keep the military campaign in Gaza going.

https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-israel-748a13f933111e2341fcf1d01f86bdb7

"Just over a week ago, the longtime Israeli leader’s political career seemed all but over. He had failed to form a coalition government following an indecisive parliamentary election, and his political rivals were on the cusp of pushing him out of office."

At which point, many years of accumulated corruption charges seems to wait for him....

 

You make some good points here. But this current violence has been about political expediency and survival for both Netanyahu and Hamas. I think Netanyahu and the Israeli right wing underestimated the backlash and outcome from wanting to forcibly remove Palestinians from  those Jerusalem suburbs  and the attack on the Al Aqsa Mosque was a miscalculation  and egregious

But you wrong about one thing, Saudi Arabia and Iran becoming long-term friends is not going to happen  because of this. This is just a brief reprieve from the age old animosity and still needs to be resolved 

[ComradeYellow]

Biden Balks on Russia (msn.com)

LOL MSM doesn't even try to hide their bias anymore.  Nord Stream 2 can and will actually HELP the populations involved but since it's Russian backed the U.S. 1950's minded establishment dinosaurs are O.K. with going all the way to sabotage it.

I support Biden's decision to allow organic trade networks to bear fruit, regardless of whether or not we like their government.

[HoonDing]

"One of the first things I would do as president not that the president has the power to do this but bear with me here is cut off all foreign aid. Every dime, every nickel, every penny. Far more often than not such aid is used to kill people then to help them. "

Not kissing the ring of the Jewish cabal is political suicide. Even literal "suicide".

[rjshae]

3 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

The point isn’t that US arms companies are selling arms abroad. The point is that foreign nations are using US financial aid to buy them. Biden releases the freeze on Iranian assets And suddenly Hamas has money to build new rockets. Maybe that’s a coincidence. Maybe there are green mice on Mars.

One of the first things I would do as president not that the president has the power to do this but bear with me here is cut off all foreign aid. Every dime, every nickel, every penny. Far more often than not such aid is used to kill people then to help them.

So... then they are buying rockets with their own money? Right?

[Guard Dog]

5 minutes ago, rjshae said:

So... then they are buying rockets with their own money? Right?

Sure. What they do with their own treasure is their affair.  So are the consequences.  Not. Our. Problem. 

[ComradeYellow]

14 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Not. Our. Problem. 

Whelp, since 1992 the U.S. decided to make every problem in the world "our problem" so all entangled roads lead to the U.S.

It will continue unless the U.S. starts taking steps to gradually withdraw from it.

Still not sure as to why the American people didn't protest against imperialism way back when, as I don't think the Founders had that in mind when creating this county...

[Guard Dog]

44 minutes ago, ComradeYellow said:

as I don't think the Founders had that in mind when creating this county...

They did not. In fact a few of them specifically warned against “foreign entanglements“ that sap our strength.