Pollaxe discussion

[Boeroer]

Not quite, it's like that (with my mod):
 

• intial attack: 9-13 dmg slash/crush with 0.75 range at 9 PEN + 1.5m pull effect
  • secondary effect is an AoE of 1.5m which procs the additional attack (an invisible projectile) once to a random target in the AoE. The AoE itself does not pull. It does nothing besides triggering the additional attack.
• additional attack: 9-13 dmg slash/crush at 9 PEN + 1.5 pull effect, a delay of 0.1 secs, two bounces:
  • bounces happen in order of range (nearest gets the bounce)
  • bounces have no dmg malus, 0.5m reach

I could lower the additional attacks' dmg again (or make the bounces lose dmg per bounce or whatever) - and also remove the 1.5m pull of the initial attack in order to remove the wonkyness with Clear Out and other push effects like Forace of Anguish. It looks really yo-yo like and makes not much sense.  Maybe there's a more elegant solution like using the mortar-style AoE without scaling (couldn't make that work, always scaled with INT) or something else. 
This was what I could come up with which somewhat does what the description says - in my first little modding project.  

Without my mod it's just the initial attack at 9-13 dmg (same values as above otherwise) - and then the 1.5m AoE triggers one additional attack to a random target at 5-9 dmg. That's it.

By the way @Elric Galad: where the heck do I find the description text for "Reckless Cyclone"? I find the name of that item mod in the stringtables and I also found the general item description for the bottom - but not the text for the item mods. Where it says "up to +3 targets, friend or foe"...?

 

Edit: Apparently it's only Clear Out that's wonky with the pull/push. With Force of Anguish the push just overrides the pull which is neat. 
Clear Out's pushing is always wonky with AoE weapons anyway (enemies jittering around like crazy) so maybe I'll just leave it like this. Thinking about giving Whahai Poraga 1.5m reach in order to make the initial attack range fit the AoE size. Doesn't make much sense that the initial attack has to be done from 0.75m range while the additonal work at 1.5m. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

38 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Hitting 1 target is exactly enough to match the damages from a regular Pollaxe. Spread damages aren't the best, but it allows spreading special attack effects (does it ?).

It does. It just doesn't make much sense to me to have a weapon that has a whirling animation, says it hits up to 3 targets and then hits 1 with puny dmg.

I find my solution to be better atm.  It's somewhat unique and imo also interesting. Of course dmg etc. can be tweaked.  

[Boeroer]

<sorry multipost>

Edited April 27, 2021 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

<sorry multipost>

Edited April 27, 2021 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

18 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

By the way @Elric Galad: where the heck do I find the description text for "Reckless Cyclone"? I find the name of that item mod in the stringtables and I also found the general item description for the bottom - but not the text for the item mods. Where it says "up to +3 targets, friend or foe"...?

I haven't found yet. I haven't modified item mod description, the automatic description update was enough for my mod.

2 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

It does. It just doesn't make much sense to me to have a weapon that has a whirling animation, says it hits up to 3 targets and then hits 1 with puny dmg.

Sure, I was just trying to identify what are favorable vs unfavorable scenarios. Hitting main target + another one was sort of balanced one vs normal Pollaxe. 

2 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I find my solution to be better atm.  It's somewhat unique and imo also interesting. Of course dmg etc. can be tweaked.  

Yes, no contest about that. I'm just thinking about it for now, I haven't made up my opinion. Eventually finalization can go through a round of discussion about number tweaks. But I trust you about the general solution  

[Elric Galad]

I will only give my personal opinion :

I tend to value the most simple design, even if it changes a bit the initial intention (as long as it keeps the spirit).

I have bad experience with combining sub effects, and even if the (hardcoded) programming (behind the gamedata files) works, sometimes the combination of the effects lead to unexpected consequences. And I somewhat distrust pull effects.

 

I would probably have gone for applying secondary hit to every target (including friendly, but excluding wielder and main target) in the 1,5m AoE and would not have bothered with bounces and max number of targets. Damages could be tweaked accordingly. Extending the AoE because of INT (and Shared Nightmare) would lead to something a bit different from original design, but is in line with how WotEP currently works. The AoE is more convenient than WotEP, but friendly fire matters and damages can be tweaked down. Also it would be similar to hand mortars.

Something to consider is the ability to all targets special effects such as Gouging Strike with the secondary AoE.

Latest minor remark for benchmarking with WotEP : Pollaxes do less damages than Greatsword in general, because of their higher PEN. 

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

I would probably have gone for applying secondary hit to every target (including friendly, but excluding wielder and main target) in the 1,5m AoE and would not have bothered with bounces and max number of targets. 

I tried to do that but I couldn't make the AoE size fixed then - as I described above. Else that would have been one of my preferred solutions, too. As I also described in one of my former posts.  That pulling/bouncing was just born out of desperation. I knd of like it but it has some minor issues (like the bounce still being able to leave the red AoE).

I now tested all abilites I thought might cause trouble (even Instruments of Pain and Whirling Strikes and whatnot) and so far I didn't run into broken stuff. Besides Swift FLurry/HBD which is probably too strong with this against low defense mobs.  

If you know how to make the "normal" AoE size non-scalable that would be great. I would then only alter the description: remove the "up to 3 targets" and be good. Because it looks really confusing if you have a yellow circle around a red one (because friend or foe) and still get firendly fire from the yellow area.

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

If you know how to make the "normal" AoE size non-scalable that would be great. I would then only alter the description: remove the "up to 3 targets" and be good. Because it looks really confusing if you have a yellow circle around a red one (because friend or foe) and still get firendly fire from the yellow area.

OK I get the point about the yellow circle with friendly fire.

Anyway, the pull part is fun and in line with the weapon fluff, so it's nice to have it too.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Elric Galad

[Rev7718]

Is there any good Barbarian/Devoted LDV build? I cant seem to find any.

[Boeroer]

There's no mystery there I think. Just pick what sounds good and it will most likely be right.

With Berserker/Devoted you'll get an enormous amount of crit conversion and awesome Penetration. And if you use the Devil of Caroc Breastplate you cvan even shrug off the Berserker Confusion. Helm of the Falcon for the looks and the higher attack speed. Voidward Ring for the Berserker self dmg and so on. Pick Stalwart Defiance or else the self damage is hard to manage at some point because Unbending doesn't get triggered by self damage. 

I personally would feel more comfortable with a Berserker/Paladin though. Maybe Steel Garrote or Kind Wayfarer. Eternal Flames will get a +20 ACC bonus which is nice for the crits, Lay on Hands counters Berserker self damage, all the AR passives are good for survivability. With Spirit Frenzy your attacks will stagger foes which will unlick the Steel Garrote life drain - or you heal by Kind Wayfarer's White Flames. Imo a good mix of offense and survivability.

You can maybe just plan something out and post it here and we could comment - if you want.   

[Not So Clever Hound]

To add to Boeroer's point, if you're playing in a party (which I think is what you mentioned) survivability will be slightly less of an issue.

The Berserker/Devoted will have Clear Out which is yummy with your setup and high Hit-to-Crit (sorry every other thing I post these days seems to mention Clear Out ).

On the other hand, a plus with going with the Pally is that you get access to a passive that auto-clears Confused (so you can give DoC to someone else).

Early game in any case, you may want to pick Monastic Unarmed Training and dual wield ability to kick some Port Maje butts, until you retrain to 2-Handed when you get the Voulge of your dreams.

[Rev7718]

20 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

To add to Boeroer's point, if you're playing in a party (which I think is what you mentioned) survivability will be slightly less of an issue.

The Berserker/Devoted will have Clear Out which is yummy with your setup and high Hit-to-Crit (sorry every other thing I post these days seems to mention Clear Out ).

On the other hand, a plus with going with the Pally is that you get access to a passive that auto-clears Confused (so you can give DoC to someone else).

Early game in any case, you may want to pick Monastic Unarmed Training and dual wield ability to kick some Port Maje butts, until you retrain to 2-Handed when you get the Voulge of your dreams.

Hold on a sec. Is there some kind of mechanic with Devil of Caroc Breastplate that counters Berserkers confusion? I know it might sound stupid, but I´m really not that educated in the game. 

 

Edit: Yes, being in party is how I roll. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Rev7718

[Not So Clever Hound]

Confusion is the Tier 1 Intellect Affliction. DoC has an enchantment that gives resistance to Intellect Afflictions. Paladin has a class passive that does the same. Since Confusion is Tier 1, it gets completely cleared. Note that an Intellect Inspiration would do the same, but you'd lose the buff.

DoC: Mechanical Mind
Pally: Mental Fortress

Edited April 28, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Rev7718]

You´ve just made my day guys! Thank you.

How would you distribute the stats?

Something like this for the Berserker/Devoted?:

Might 16

Consitution 10 

Dexterity 15

Perception 15

Intellect 14

Resolve 7

[Kaylon]

Devil of Caroc's Breastplate is an essential part of the build for three reasons:

• resistance to intellect afflictions (which negates berserker's confusion)
• health regeneration when you land crit hits (ie all the time)
• increased resources

[Kaylon]

1 minute ago, Rev7718 said:

You´ve just made my day guys! Thank you.

How would you distribute the stats?

Something like this for the Berserker/Devoted?:

Might 16

Consitution 10 

Dexterity 15

Perception 15

Intellect 14

Resolve 7

Max might, intellect and perception. Might means more damage, faster kills and more healing. Intellect means larger carnage AoE, longer buffs/debuffs. Perception means more hits and crits ie faster killing and healing. Resolve is useless for this build and should be left to 3. You'll have plenty of speed buffs (frenzy, bloodlust, bolting strikes) and a few points in dex will barely make any difference - I wouldn't go beyond 8 (and with item bonuses you can reach 10 to avoid penalties). You're left with 10 con which should be more than enough with the constitution bonuses from items & frenzy.

PS. Abraham pet is also an important part of the build for the heal on kill and the reduction to armor recovery.

[Rev7718]

16 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

Max might, intellect and perception. Might means more damage, faster kills and more healing. Intellect means larger carnage AoE, longer buffs/debuffs. Perception means more hits and crits ie faster killing and healing. Resolve is useless for this build and should be left to 3. You'll have plenty of speed buffs (frenzy, bloodlust, bolting strikes) and a few points in dex will barely make any difference - I wouldn't go beyond 8 (and with item bonuses you can reach 10 to avoid penalties). You're left with 10 con which should be more than enough with the constitution bonuses from items & frenzy.

PS. Abraham pet is also an important part of the build for the heal on kill and the reduction to armor recovery.

That´s perfect. Thank you!

[Kaylon]

The self raw damage can be negated using Voidward coupled with self regen (Rapid Recovery, Devil's Due (armor), Ring of Greater Regeneration, Three Trolls Stitched cape) and some healing bonus (the Footprints of Ahu Taka boots fit very well). And of course you have also the heal on kill and Second Wind as back up.

To sustain the damage from enemies nothing beats Unbending Trunk which scales with the damage received and with enough intellect can even out heal it.

PS. Pick Tactical Barrage to extend the duration of your buffs/debuffs and the AoE of carnage and Spirit Tornado.

[Rev7718]

20 hours ago, Kaylon said:

The self raw damage can be negated using Voidward coupled with self regen (Rapid Recovery, Devil's Due (armor), Ring of Greater Regeneration, Three Trolls Stitched cape) and some healing bonus (the Footprints of Ahu Taka boots fit very well). And of course you have also the heal on kill and Second Wind as back up.

To sustain the damage from enemies nothing beats Unbending Trunk which scales with the damage received and with enough intellect can even out heal it.

PS. Pick Tactical Barrage to extend the duration of your buffs/debuffs and the AoE of carnage and Spirit Tornado.

This sounds like a serious deal. 

[Elric Galad]

So @Boeroer, are you going to release it as your own mod ? (Maquest and Phenomenum have not been very active lately.)

I will probably use the final version in my set up  

[Boeroer]

I could. I haven't looked at it for the last couple of days though. Would need to clean it up first I think. And also need to find the file where the echantment descriptions are.

[Elric Galad]

On 5/2/2021 at 12:19 AM, Boeroer said:

I could. I haven't looked at it for the last couple of days though. Would need to clean it up first I think. And also need to find the file where the echantment descriptions are.

And so ? surely there would still be people who could be interested

[Avaritica]

Wahai Poraga can be fixed by editing the "Duration" of AttackPulsedAOEComponent to 0.1 and then increasing "NumHits" to 3.(coz base code means primary target +2. However, 3 additional target is bit too strong IMO since AOE inherit effects of all "primary attack, full attack" abilities)

This way, it will works as described.

Quote

                    "$type": "Game.GameData.AttackPulsedAOEComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
                    "Duration": 0.1,
                    "PulseIntervalRate": 3,
                    "OneValidTargetPerPulse": "false",
                    "PulsedVisualEffect": "",
                    "LingerVisualEffect": "",
                    "LingerEffectAttachMode": "Position",
                    "LingerEffectAttachPoint": "Root",
                    "Scale": "false"
                }, {
                    "$type": "Game.GameData.AttackRandomAOEComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
                    "RandomAttackID": "5e0495a3-a335-46e3-aad9-f7a076aa7e2d",
                    "RandomTargetStyle": "Object",
                    "NumHits": 3,
                    "MaxHitsPerTarget": 1

Edited January 4, 2022 by Avaritica

[Boeroer]

10 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

And so ? surely there would still be people who could be interested

Ha, I actually never looked at it again even after what I wrote. Sorry.

[Constentin Lévine]

4 hours ago, Avaritica said:

3 additional target is bit too strong IMO since AOE inherit effects of all "primary attack, full attack" abilities)

That explain the low damages I thought, but I felt disapointed when only the first target take the Swift Flurry proc. At this time, my point was that was working like Sun and Moon when the 3 additionnal crit proc another first hit (if I am clear) but in other hand, for Sun and Moon, that was the consequence of Dualwielding. Wahai was just wrong writed