Beginner questions about some classes

[freddfranca]

Hello friends. 
 

I am trying to choose my class, tried almost everything, but I have some mid-end game questions.

All characters I tested I finished the Fort Deadlight on Veteran, so I could have some feelings about them.
 

I liked the Cipher part, but I am afraid it became too boring spamming one ability.

Other class that I liked was the Barbarian. I have two considerations about it, the Confusion makes much difference in party play? And is possible to be an off-tank barb? Because I want to be able to take some damage and leave the rest for the AI.

That said, this is my options:

Shattered Pillar/Soul Blade

Fury/Soul Blade

Bleak Walker/Soul Blade

all cipher options will be viable if isn’t just one button spam.

 

Monk/Wizard with Spirit Lance

Devoted/Berath

Steel Garrote/Streetfighter

Swashbuckler is a good option, but I am trying a solo run and want something different 

 

My priority is to be able to at least be an off tank, I am tired of start a fight and be burned down.

 

[Haplok]

Confusion can be negated easily enough with Modwyr the intelligent longsword or Devil of Caroc Breastplate with appropriate enchantment (hope your PoE1 history leads to existence of DoC BP).

As for tanking or even offtanking with a Barb... I'd say it depends on the multiclass and stats. Something like A Barb/Fighter Brute will be decently durable, but a Helwalker/Berserker will be about as solid as a tissue paper.

[Not So Clever Hound]

I speak mostly from Solo experience, but you should keep in mind that Deadfire being quite generous with both content and XP, you will play 70%+ of the game at max level. And most classes at max level play very differently than at low level. This is true for single and multiclass and for certain combos, late game is totally transformational (e.g. SC Monk, MC Fighter/Wizard Spirit Lance...).

So you can't effectively judge a class by playing it a few hours and giving up . Pick a theme you like and stick to it.

Finally - most classes will sometimes have hard times at the beginning, it's normal. Difficulty in Deadfire is loaded at the beginning of the game and in highest level end-game content. Only very few builds can blast through the game from lvl 1 on Veteran or especially PotD, and in my experience they are mostly Assassin combos using stealth to one-shot and reset fights.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Haplok]

70% at max level? That's maybe true for the Solo experience.

In a party its more like the last 30%? IF you're either completionist OR follow trough with DLCs. For me its at least 70% getting to that max level. Of course, I also don't try to "exhaust" all content available (so probably will not do all possible faction quests in each play-trough).

[Not So Clever Hound]

Fair point, I should have clarified that I was talking about being (reasonably) completionist and playing through all DLCs, in which case with a full party of 6 it's not 70/30 but probably closer to 50/50 maybe? That's what I assumed the OP would want to do given they haven't completed a playthrough yet, but it's indeed good to clarify.

Regardless, in my experience most builds/playstyles will really start coalescing around lvl 16+ so it's hard to get a solid opinion on a class before.

[Haplok]

That's a bit harsh IMO.

There are builds that "mature" that late - but personally I tend to avoid them. Many characters, mainly muticlasses, perform fine well below that point. Some almost from the get-go.

In my early Deadfire days I used to test characters basing on how well they do solo around level 12. My test sample was the (PotD Upscaled) encounter with some tough Xaurips west of Neketaka. That's because anything that needed level 16 or such I already considered end-game and not representative for normal gameplay.

It pained me greatly to wait till level 13 for Borrowed Instincts on a MC Cipher, for example.

Of course, we did get the DLCs since then. But I still tend to avoid builds that need a high level to feel effective. Plenty of builds that don't need to wait.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Haplok

[Not So Clever Hound]

That's interesting perspective, thanks for sharing! I would still argue that for many multi/single class, PL 6 and PL 7 abilities are important milestones. Maybe not things that will completely change your life, but steps that can significantly enhance your gameplay.

I would also argue that in my opinion, Obsidian aimed at balancing out the Multiclass feature by giving access to very powerful and potentially transformational abilities at PL 8 & 9 only for Single Class. When playing single class at least I think it's really interesting to see what those power levels have to offer before locking your opinion on that class.

I'm with you on the idea that it's not super fun to play a toon that is quite weak until it unlocks something specific at like, lvl 19, but at the same time it's also nice to play toons that have an objective, a proverbial carrot to chase in terms of end-game potential.

For example with an Assassin getting permanent Vanishing Strike with Strand of Favor which I know is your favorite thing in the world   . Ok sorry I will see myself out.  

[freddfranca]

For this run I want try to complete much as I can, I am really enjoying the game (except for the ship battles, they are a pain in the ass).

I am used to always play as tank, I feel is more responsive and less “robotic”. Also, I am not much a fan of an Assassin type.

And I don’t want a late game class, I’m looking for some thing more balanced.

Thanks for the replies

Edited April 14, 2021 by freddfranca

[Haplok]

I agree about single classes. SOME of them have more to look forward to (as partial compensation for sticking to them and suffering trough the game :P). The long wait is part of the reason I've never played a single class before

Like that SC Assassin - I could never play it, suffering trough its squishiness and resource limitations - and general awkwardness in a party - just to await that one awesome ability - at level 19, when I'm nearly done with the game!

Also SC characters are usually more straightforward and have less synergy/combo potential - a minus in my book. 

I COULD see myself playing a SC monk, since they are decently strong throughout - but still prefer a Shadowdancer, who is very strong right from the get go or a Transcendant who gets various useful powers throughout the game. Or others, monk comboes exceptionally well with pretty much anything.

Same story wizard. I like wizards and consider them quite powerful as SC. But will still probably play Sage, Spellblade or some such. Or heck, even Arcane Knight or Battlemage. Because they are more... solid and reliable - throughout the game.

 

I am quite troubled by Barbarians. One of my 2 favorite classes in PoE1. But here they gain the bulk of their important abilities too late IMO. I'm not gonna wait for Blood Thirst till level 19 on a MC Barbarian. Brute Force comes too late also. Even Savage Defiance feels too late... and too expensive. A SC Barb gets some nice abilities.... eventually. But again, at level 19 its too late for me. So I don't really play Barbarians in PoE2

Edited April 14, 2021 by Haplok

[Raven Darkholme]

56 minutes ago, freddfranca said:

For this run I want try to complete much as I can, I am really enjoying the game (except for the ship battles, they are a pain in the ass).

I am used to always play as tank, I feel is more responsive and less “robotic”. Also, I am not much a fan of an Assassin type.

And I don’t want a late game class, I’m looking for some thing more balanced.

Thanks for the replies

If you don't want a late game class I can only recommend playing single class over multiclass.

You get access to powerful PL7 abilities super early (level 13 I believe) and for some classes like priests even PL6 is massive (level 10).

And if you play in a party you REALLY don't lose much going single class, there is some super situational interesting things that even in a party can only be done with a multiclass, but a party with only single classes will be as effective as one with multiclasses, but you unlock your abilities much earlier.

[freddfranca]

I considered going single class, but was harder for me to decide

After some more research, I think I will try the Witch with Ascendant instead Soul Blade.

[Haplok]

For characters with spell progression, such as Priests, Wizards, arguably Druids, I agree that SC in a Party makes a lot of sense. Definately SC wizard Aloth is my best Aloth. Priests like Xoti or Vatnir I also prefer SC (with faster access to Devotions of Faithfull and Salvation of Time!)

I'd argue that for most martial types, going SC is a poor idea. Even monks, who get crazy good end game abilities, I prefer to play MC. Playing Fighters, Paladins, Rangers or Rogues as SC characters never seriously crossed my mind.

Because of how strong those MC are - that much sooner. And how much less resource constrained they are (due to dual class resource pool). Also they nearly doubly benefit from things like Devil of Caroc BP class resource bonus or self-empower resource restoration.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Haplok

[Raven Darkholme]

1 hour ago, Haplok said:

For characters with spell progression, such as Priests, Wizards, arguably Druids, I agree that SC in a Party makes a lot of sense. Definately SC wizard Aloth is my best Aloth. Priests like Xoti or Vatnir I also prefer SC (with faster access to Devotions of Faithfull and Salvation of Time!)

I'd argue that for most martial types, going SC is a poor idea. Even monks, who get crazy good end game abilities, I prefer to play MC. Playing Fighters, Paladins, Rangers or Rogues as SC characters never seriously crossed my mind.

Because of how strong those MC are - that much sooner. And how much less resource constrained they are (due to dual class resource pool). Also they nearly doubly benefit from things like Devil of Caroc BP class resource bonus or self-empower resource restoration.

Well it all depends on playstyle, but if you don't mind using Ancestor's memory and Salvation of time, then everyone will have infinite resources anyway.

Single class Monk doesn't even need Ancestor's memory there is multiple other ways to spam WoTW.

[Not So Clever Hound]

2 hours ago, Haplok said:

I am quite troubled by Barbarians. One of my 2 favorite classes in PoE1. But here they gain the bulk of their important abilities too late IMO. I'm not gonna wait for Blood Thirst till level 19 on a MC Barbarian. Brute Force comes too late also. Even Savage Defiance feels too late... and too expensive. A SC Barb gets some nice abilities.... eventually. But again, at level 19 its too late for me. So I don't really play Barbarians in PoE2

That, I 100% agree with. If you knew how much I've tried to make a Solo SC Barbarian work one way or another. How many times those little barbs died at the Dig Site.  I was only left with the nostalgia of the Hours of St Rumbalt + Accurate Carnage.

[Haplok]

Personally I don't use Ancestor's Memory. If I play with a cipher, that's usually my main character and has more interesting things to do then buffing the rest of the party (even if sometimes it would be the optimal thing to do) 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Haplok

[Haplok]

1 minute ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

That, I 100% agree with. If you knew how much I've tried to make a Solo SC Barbarian work one way or another. How many times those little barbs died at the Dig Site.  I was only left with the nostalgia of the Hours of St Rumbalt + Accurate Carnage.

 A Kindred Spirit!

[Raven Darkholme]

20 minutes ago, Haplok said:

Personally I don't use Ancestor's Memory. If I play with a cipher, that's usually my main character and has more interesting things to do then buffing the rest of the party (even if sometimes it would be the optimal thing to do) 

Well it doesn't take that long to buff priest + monk and offensively cipher mainly benefits from auto attacks into Soul Annihilation.

Sadly the way poe2 is balanced is very different from poe 1 so all the aoe skills like mind blades lose their appeal very quickly.

(everyone is a "bullet sponge" in this game once you hit later game content, I bet there is some random mobs in dlcs that have more hp than Adra Dragon.

 

18 minutes ago, Haplok said:

 A Kindred Spirit!

Barbarian is one of those classes that hugely benefits from multiclassing for sure, Soul Blade/ Barb or wizard/barb are just too nice.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Raven Darkholme

[Boeroer]

23 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

That, I 100% agree with. If you knew how much I've tried to make a Solo SC Barbarian work one way or another. How many times those little barbs died at the Dig Site.  I was only left with the nostalgia of the Hours of St Rumbalt + Accurate Carnage.

I did a solo SC Furyshaper and it went pretty well (Blood Ward draining life from all sources of dmg is just great). SSS and FS gave me trouble though and I didn't even try megabosses. Blame my unwilingness to use resting bonuses and consumables.

SC Furyshaper in a party is even better imo. Just because of the Blood Ward.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Boeroer

[Haplok]

6 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Well it doesn't take that long to buff priest + monk and offensively cipher mainly benefits from auto attacks into Soul Annihilation.

I also usually don't play Soulblades - no SA for me. Maybe for the best.

Late game Disintegration (and Seeker's Fang mini-Disintegrations) are my thing. Probably coupled with monk's Flagellant's Path mobility.

Also I use a lot of Secret Horrors, Mental Binding, Ectopsychic Echo. Some Mind Plague now and then. Borrowed Instinct is a given.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Haplok

[Not So Clever Hound]

29 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I did a solo SC Furyshaper and it went pretty well (Blood Ward draining life from all sources of dmg is just great).

I thought you might . How did you manage the early game? I can't see a proud Barb sneak past the Dig Site or ask for help.

I haven't tried in a while but I seem to remember that even with usual combos of Monastic Unarmed Training, Necklace of Fireballs, Hylea's Bounty and the best other stuff you can buy in Port Maje I struggled - significantly more than with any other class I'd played. I also remember trying to build high AR but it was still sub-par.

EDIT: also SSS must have been a huge grind, was it not?

Edited April 14, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Boeroer]

He swallowed his pride and fought like a kite.

[Raven Darkholme]

18 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

I thought you might . How did you manage the early game? I can't see a proud Barb sneak past the Dig Site or ask for help.

I haven't tried in a while but I seem to remember that even with usual combos of Monastic Unarmed Training, Necklace of Fireballs, Hylea's Bounty and the best other stuff you can buy in Port Maje I struggled - significantly more than with any other class I'd played. I also remember trying to build high AR but it was still sub-par.

EDIT: also SSS must have been a huge grind, was it not?

Any class can do dig site with relative ease if you just lure the enemies one by one with traps.

But honestly sneaking by is a lot more painless.

[Not So Clever Hound]

1 minute ago, Boeroer said:

He swallowed his pride and fought like a kite.

I bet it made him sad! If only the Fear Ward was PL3 and not PL4, he would have terrified all the pigs and lizards.

1 minute ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Any class can do dig site with relative ease if you just lure the enemies one by one with traps.

But honestly sneaking by is a lot more painless.

Sure, but either way you are not bringing pride upon your Dojo.

[freddfranca]

Is it wasted to use Ascendant with the Barbarian? I don’t see a good point in choose this...

[Raven Darkholme]

9 minutes ago, freddfranca said:

Is it wasted to use Ascendant with the Barbarian? I don’t see a good point in choose this...

Ascendant doesn't work too well with Barbarian (ofc you can make anything work) Soulblade + barb is a match made in heaven.