Feigned Roleplaying

[HalasterBlack]

Another one of the Major Flaws in KOTOR is the fact that your choices didn't really have any impact on the storyline. I kept hearing how my choices would alter the story line, but they didn't not for the first 90% of the game.

 

 

I remember in the very beginning trying to get out of helping rescue Bastila but that bastard get whining about duty, and somehow I could not get my blade to connect to his skull. I remember the great anticapaction of being the leader of the Sith Academy, but to no avail.

 

I really hadly never got any choice much at how the story went.

 

Until the very end of the game, in which I choose evil, and dark powers, and for some reason I was forced to attack my comrades, which I didn't want to do. I didn't want to attack, but their supposedly "light-side" booties attacked me without provocation and I was forced to defend myself. Then when I got back to my other friends and teammates they run from me, and enrage Zaalibar into attacking me, what the heck.

 

If you've played the original Jedi Knight, you realize that Jedi Knight had more choice between light and darkside storylines than KOTOR.

[Vendetta]

Err, no it didn't, it just diverged at about half way through, not right at the end. And that didn't actually affect anything in real terms, other than the powers you obtained and which bird you ended up with. There were only about two cutscenes that were different.

[HalasterBlack]

Err, no it didn't, it just diverged at about half way through, not right at the end.  And that didn't actually affect anything in real terms, other than the powers you obtained and which bird you ended up with.  There were only about two cutscenes that were different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I kinda wonder if you, or anyone actually read my post. The fact that the path only diverged at the last planet you go to, and right before the last location kinda supports my "end of game" theory; theory in its scientific use, as in, proven hypothesis. The fact that there was only minor changes in cutscenes, dialogue, and small story (Bastila confrontion is Light) only goes to prove my statement, so I really don't know what your trying to say overall, am I right, am I wrong, you just have supporting evidence and opinions without any conclusion. But seeing how your only real evidence is pro towards my post, Ill just act like you liked and supported me.

 

Exactly!!

[GhostofAnakin]

Another one of the Major Flaws in KOTOR is the fact that your choices didn't really have any impact on the storyline. I kept hearing how my choices would alter the story line, but they didn't not for the first 90% of the game.

 

 

I remember in the very beginning trying to get out of helping rescue Bastila but that bastard get whining about duty, and somehow I could not get my blade to connect to his skull. I remember the great anticapaction of being the leader of the Sith Academy, but to no avail.

 

I really hadly never got any choice much at how the story went.

 

Until the very end of the game, in which I choose evil, and dark powers, and for some reason I was forced to attack my comrades, which I didn't want to do. I didn't want to attack, but their supposedly "light-side" booties attacked me without provocation and I was forced to defend myself. Then when I got back to my other friends and teammates they run from me, and enrage Zaalibar into attacking me, what the heck.

 

If you've played the original Jedi Knight, you realize that Jedi Knight had more choice between light and darkside storylines than KOTOR.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, your choices did affect the way the game played throughout.

 

People seem to keep overlooking little things that change depending how you act. People are so fixated on the "Dark Jedi/Light Jedi" thing and overlook other things. For instance, on Taris you have a choice of working with the Vulkars or the Beks. If you choose one, you have to fight the other. In other words, your "choices affect the story", because if you choose DS, you side with the Beks and have to kill the Vulkars. If you choose LS, you defeat the Beks.

 

So to use your comments, your hypothesis is in fact incorrect.

[alanschu]

Although since Taris gets bombed into Oblivion, it doesn't change the story a whole lot. You still have to swoop race and whatnot...and even though you are a Vulkar, Brejik still gets his panties in a bunch when you try to claim your prize.

[Viper1000]

Another one of the Major Flaws in KOTOR is the fact that your choices didn't really have any impact on the storyline. I kept hearing how my choices would alter the story line, but they didn't not for the first 90% of the game.

 

 

I remember in the very beginning trying to get out of helping rescue Bastila but that bastard get whining about duty, and somehow I could not get my blade to connect to his skull. I remember the great anticapaction of being the leader of the Sith Academy, but to no avail.

 

I really hadly never got any choice much at how the story went.

 

Until the very end of the game, in which I choose evil, and dark powers, and for some reason I was forced to attack my comrades, which I didn't want to do. I didn't want to attack, but their supposedly "light-side" booties attacked me without provocation and I was forced to defend myself. Then when I got back to my other friends and teammates they run from me, and enrage Zaalibar into attacking me, what the heck.

 

If you've played the original Jedi Knight, you realize that Jedi Knight had more choice between light and darkside storylines than KOTOR.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, your choices did affect the way the game played throughout.

 

People seem to keep overlooking little things that change depending how you act. People are so fixated on the "Dark Jedi/Light Jedi" thing and overlook other things. For instance, on Taris you have a choice of working with the Vulkars or the Beks. If you choose one, you have to fight the other. In other words, your "choices affect the story", because if you choose DS, you side with the Beks and have to kill the Vulkars. If you choose LS, you defeat the Beks.

 

So to use your comments, your hypothesis is in fact incorrect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Wait a minute... weren't you LS if you sided with the Beks and DS if with the Vulkars?

[Aegeri]

People seem to keep overlooking little things that change depending how you act. People are so fixated on the "Dark Jedi/Light Jedi" thing and overlook other things. For instance, on Taris you have a choice of working with the Vulkars or the Beks. If you choose one, you have to fight the other. In other words, your "choices affect the story", because if you choose DS, you side with the Beks and have to kill the Vulkars. If you choose LS, you defeat the Beks.

 

You got things the wrong way, and incidently, it doesn't matter if you choose to work for the vulkars (DS) because you're forced to massacre 90% of them ANYWAY. There is no real choice there except going off and killing the becs in addition to whacking most of the vulkars.

 

In short, it isn't much of a choice.

 

Only two major decisions really affect anything in the game. Not giving the fellow in the undercity the journals for the promised land and destroying Manaans ecosystem. In the first instance, this allows those people to survive the assault on taris (presumably), in the second case, it wipes out the planet and gets you banished from the planet (major result).

 

Other choices in the game end up being rather meaningless. Wiping out/not wiping out the families on dantooine is offset by the fact the planet is still wiped clean by the Sith fleet. The rakghoul serum quest has an irrelevant result because the entire planet is wiped clean (except for the promised land surivors if any). No matter what happens on Korriban, you ALWAYS end up being attacked by the entire academy.

 

Overall, this game cotains little real choice, every major decision in this game railroads you into a specific result anyway no matter what you chose to do. That is a real shame in many respects.

[Paladin]

People seem to keep overlooking little things that change depending how

Other choices in the game end up being rather meaningless. Wiping out/not wiping out the families on dantooine is offset by the fact the planet is still wiped clean by the Sith fleet. The rakghoul serum quest has an irrelevant result because the entire planet is wiped clean (except for the promised land surivors if any). No matter what happens on Korriban, you ALWAYS end up being attacked by the entire academy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You don't have to kill everyone in the academy if you side with Yuthara and spare her life, if you tell Uthar about Yuthara and side with him or if you side with Uthar after the revalation (he'll swear allegiance to you).

[ShinIchiro]

The only major restriction is that there were only 2 big endings. However, the good thing about KOTOR was the minor choices that affected the game in subtle ways. These were mainly the sidequests. I would therefore rephrase the complaint to something like: the major flaw of KOTOR is that it relied on sidequests to give it player choice in the plot. Therefore, the decisions were numerous, but minor in scope.

[GhostofAnakin]

Although since Taris gets bombed into Oblivion, it doesn't change the story a whole lot.  You still have to swoop race and whatnot...and even though you are a Vulkar, Brejik still gets his panties in a bunch when you try to claim your prize.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes it does change the story. Not the end of the story, but it changes aspects of the story. In one decision, the Vulkars are wiped out. In another, they're not.

 

My point was that people say that NOTHING they did changed the story, because they expect every little action to change the FINAL outcome. That's a completely misguided notion. Certain actions changed certain aspects of the story, and that's exactly how it should be. I wouldn't want the fact that I stole that wraid plate from that widow on Tatooine to drastically change the rest of the story, because that would be rediculous. I thought KOTOR did an admirable job of altering the storyline based on your actions.

[Darth Sirius]

Although since Taris gets bombed into Oblivion, it doesn't change the story a whole lot.  You still have to swoop race and whatnot...and even though you are a Vulkar, Brejik still gets his panties in a bunch when you try to claim your prize.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes it does change the story. Not the end of the story, but it changes aspects of the story. In one decision, the Vulkars are wiped out. In another, they're not.

 

My point was that people say that NOTHING they did changed the story, because they expect every little action to change the FINAL outcome. That's a completely misguided notion. Certain actions changed certain aspects of the story, and that's exactly how it should be. I wouldn't want the fact that I stole that wraid plate from that widow on Tatooine to drastically change the rest of the story, because that would be rediculous. I thought KOTOR did an admirable job of altering the storyline based on your actions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm its the butterfly effect, you know the one "a butterfly flaps its wings in China, and causes a hurricane in America" or something like that, but not every wing beat would stir up a hurricane only a select 1 or 2! Not every single decision you make has or should have a dire consequence on the games outcome, only a select few things, such as joining or spurning Bastilla (big thing) but a couple of little things that you didnt think relevant (little thing) should be able to snowball, if you get my meaning?

[Aegeri]

Yes it does change the story. Not the end of the story, but it changes aspects of the story. In one decision, the Vulkars are wiped out. In another, they're not.

 

And what happens to Taris?

 

Oh yeah, that's right, IT KINDA GETS BLOWN UP.

 

Rather meaningless now isn't it when you think about it

 

The overall effect is that you've changed nothing.

[GhostofAnakin]

Yes it does change the story. Not the end of the story, but it changes aspects of the story. In one decision, the Vulkars are wiped out. In another, they're not.

 

And what happens to Taris?

 

Oh yeah, that's right, IT KINDA GETS BLOWN UP.

 

Rather meaningless now isn't it when you think about it

 

The overall effect is that you've changed nothing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It effects events in the overall story, not the entire story itself. You're basically asking for EVERY SINGLE OPTION to have a huge outcome on the game.

 

Gee, I lost 100 credits in Paazak, so that changed the outcome from me being Revan to turning me in to a cross-breed between a Jawa and a Wookiee. Sorry, but what was given was enough of a change to the way the story played out. You're asking for the impossible, and further, the rediculous.

[Adria Teksuni]

Unfortunately, this is why CRPGs will never be able to fully encompass the complexity of pen and paper role playing, the systems just aren't large enough, nor have good enough AI, in order to come close.

[Aegeri]

It effects events in the overall story, not the entire story itself

 

Wrong, it does nothing, because the EFFECT is that BOTH gangs are destroyed no matter your choice (as Taris gets blown to bits). The middle is irrelevant if the end is always the same, your choices become meaningless with the destruction of taris becuase there is no result to your actions. The vulkars do not take over and terrorise the entire undercity etc, because, like everyone else, they happen to be rather dead.

 

If you want to see this done right, play Fallout. That simple.

[Adria Teksuni]

Since when did personal choices and what affects solely your character's development classify as "feigned" role playing?

[ShinIchiro]

Since when did personal choices and what affects solely your character's development classify as "feigned" role playing?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Since somebody picked an overly dramatic title in ordrer to gain attention!

 

 

Really, that is an overly dramatic title you ascribed to the restriction of all CRPGs.

[GhostofAnakin]

If you want to see this done right, play Fallout. That simple.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You don't seem to understand my point. You're expecting MINOR choices (side with the Beks, or side with the Vulkars) to affect the ENDING of the game. Do you know how rediculous that is? You bring up Fallout, so I'll give you an example of this exact "lack of RPing" that you're complaining about happens in Fallout as well.

 

For instance, in Fallout 2 you can choose to side with any of the 4 crime lord families in New Reno, right? Depending which one you choose, the missions are slightly different (such as the Beks/Vulkars example), but it doesn't affect the final outcome of the story. Regardless of which family you decide to be a "made man" for, the story doesn't change. Which family you choose to align with has very little effect on what happens in the Enclave. It has very little effect on what happens in any city other than New Reno. So by your definition, Fallout doesn't allow proper RPing either, since by your standards, choosing a different family to side with should DRASTICALLY alter the ending of the story.

 

Sorry, but your point is invalid because of the fact you're expecting EVERY minor event to change the entire story drastically, and as has been said, NO game does that.

[Aegeri]

If you want to see this done right, play Fallout. That simple.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So by your definition, Fallout doesn't allow proper RPing either, since by your standards, choosing a different family to side with should DRASTICALLY alter the ending of the story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Congradulations, you've missed the point yet again.

 

Firstly, putting words in your opponents mouths and claiming they said something they did not is an argumentative fallacy, commonly called a strawman. Please refrain from doing it, it just makes you look daft.

 

Secondly, the point is that what family you choose ultimately affects the world around you AT THE END OF THE GAME. Unless you haven't bothered playing Fallout, you would realise that what decisions you make DO affect the end, because what you do has a direct effect on the resolution of many events and places. For example, what family you choose in Fallout 2 DOES affect what happens to the gameworld and is very much a part of the games overall story. Again, your choices have made a difference and your actions have left a result on the wastes.

 

In KotoR, your actions are for the most part completely meaningless until the temple. If you help the vulkars it is irrelevant, because in the end both gangs are destroyed. This is much like in Fallout where despite your actions, the Hub is ALWAYS destroyed by the remaining mutant army. Then again, Fallout STILL allows far better flexibility, as your choices have meaningful results to the remaining areas in the game, such as junktown, shady sands and other places.

 

Thirdly, you again deliberately try and confuse what I've been saying with the overall plot story arc. This is acceptable, because the only way for you to defend your (failing) position is to attempt this strawman, which I shall now refute. Firstly, what I said had nothing to do with the overall plot arc, merely that my actions did nothing of any particular note, because everyone on taris is destroyed (many other examples however).

 

This is my original statement

 

Wrong, it does nothing, because the EFFECT is that BOTH gangs are destroyed no matter your choice (as Taris gets blown to bits). The middle is irrelevant if the end is always the same, your choices become meaningless with the destruction of taris because[sic] there is no result to your actions. The vulkars do not take over and terrorise the entire undercity etc, because, like everyone else, they happen to be rather dead.

 

Effectively this should of been simple enough for you to get the first time, but evidently not.

 

My entire point is, that your choice to support one or the other gangs is rendered meaningless by the fact they are both (ultimately) reduced to ashes by the sith fleet. Despite who you ultimately decide to kill off (and there are no other resolutions btw, you pretty much slaughter your way through one or both gangs), they are killed ANYWAY by the fleet. In other words, what you did has no effect on the gameworld or the individual planet. As I said in my basic example, if you aided the Beks (who are clearly a bit saner than the vulkars), then a potential resolution could have been that the undercity became a refuge for many from the oppressive sith occupation or for aliens from humans xenophobia. This would of actually been a RESOLUTION, and would of affected the gameworld and ultimately the ending story as your actions come to a tangible result. As mentioned earlier however, again, your choice is rendered meaningless by the planets destruction. You might as well have chosen to do nothing.

 

Only two major decisions really affect anything in the game. Not giving the fellow in the undercity the journals for the promised land and destroying Manaans ecosystem.

 

As I already noted from earlier, KotoR does have such choices that (ultimately) mean something. Not very many of them, but it does. I'll also extend this to a third choice, where you can decide if the Wookies get their freedom or not. The problem lies here with the fact we are not told the resolution to these choices, and hence what overall effect the character had on the rest of the universe. This is where Fallout shines, as what you decided to do ultimately has a lasting effect on the gameworld, both from the main story arc AND from your minor choices in the game.

 

Which, makes your entire point wrong and your strawman is thus defeated. If you reply, please actually argue my points and not whatever crap you decide to make up and say is my argument (IE another strawman).

[GhostofAnakin]

Wow, it's easier to be condescending than to actually respond with something intelligent.

 

I understood everything you said, and put forth a reason why your points were invalid (it's not my fault you couldn't express your views in a way that actually made what you suggest feasible).

 

Let's start with the Vulkars/Beks example. You state that even though you can choose sides, in the end it doesn't matter because Taris gets destroyed regardless. So in essense, you're expecting two vastly differently outcomes depending on whether you join the Beks or Vulkars (ie. one options means Taris remains, the other means it's destroyed). And that's when i stated that what you propose is rediculous, since you expect a MINOR event (choosing a side in the gang war) to change the MAJOR plot of the story. Why should whether you choose the Beks or Vulkars affect whether the entire planet gets blown up? It makes no sense.

 

And about your point with Fallout 2, yes choosing a side does alter PORTIONS of the story, but it does NOT change the final outcome. Which is, if you want to accomplish the MAIN goal of the game you have to make your way to the Enclave. That's not changed depending on choice of gang, yet you expect that kind of change based on different choices in KOTOR.

 

The fact that you conceded that KOTOR does allow a variation in story based on a couple of examples makes your entire point moot. You contradict your entire point by proving that, in fact, KOTOR allows you to alter the universe based on choices you make.

 

That's my final post about this, mainly because it's pointless debating with someone who has to resort to condescension and insults when they're incapable of clearly stating what their point is. Afterall, you can't say your main point is that your decisions in KOTOR have NO effect on the story since you yourself pointed out situations in which it does.

[Aegeri]

Wow, it's easier to be condescending than to actually respond with something intelligent.

 

 

I thought what I wrote was perfectly intelligent, I guess it must be stupid then.

 

Hurrr hurrr hurrr I guess.

 

I understood everything you said, and put forth a reason why your points were invalid (it's not my fault you couldn't express your views in a way that actually made what you suggest feasible). 

 

I did the first time, you just didn't bother reading what I wrote and then put words in my mouth.

 

 

Let's start with the Vulkars/Beks example.  You state that even though you can choose sides, in the end it doesn't matter because Taris gets destroyed regardless.  So in essense, you're expecting two vastly differently outcomes depending on whether you join the Beks or Vulkars

 

This is your second strawman, it is plainly put up there for you to see what I wrote. I merely ask that the choice has an actual effect.

 

And that's when i stated that what you propose is rediculous, since you expect a MINOR event (choosing a side in the gang war) to change the MAJOR plot of the story.  Why should whether you choose the Beks or Vulkars affect whether the entire planet gets blown up?  It makes no sense.

 

Again, you strawman my argument.

 

Read what I wrote, I simply stated the reason why the choice is meaningless using the fact the planet is bombed to oblivion as evidence. It happens to be very understandable: A] Where I am coming from, and B] What I am meaning by saying I want MORE choices that affect the worlds and places I go to.

 

And about your point with Fallout 2, yes choosing a side does alter PORTIONS of the story, but it does NOT change the final outcome.

 

Irrelevant, strawman 4, refuted here:

 

Thirdly, you again deliberately try and confuse what I've been saying with the overall plot story arc.

 

Next.

 

Which is, if you want to accomplish the MAIN goal of the game you have to make your way to the Enclave.

 

Wrong.

 

Thirdly, you again deliberately try and confuse what I've been saying with the overall plot story arc.

 

Next.

 

  That's not changed depending on choice of gang, yet you expect that kind of change based on different choices in KOTOR.

 

Wrong (I can quote myself all day!).

 

Thirdly, you again deliberately try and confuse what I've been saying with the overall plot story arc.

 

Next.

 

The fact that you conceded that KOTOR does allow a variation in story based on a couple of examples makes your entire point moot.

 

Wrong, I said it does so in only a few areas, but only rarely. Where as a large amount of choices in Fallout can have a huge effect on the different regions of the gameworld. I named 3 examples, 1 of which (the promised land in Taris) can be argued isn't actually a valid one.

 

However, we are ultimately given no resolution on those events and it doesn't change my earlier railroading point either.

 

Only two major decisions really affect anything in the game. Not giving the fellow in the undercity the journals for the promised land and destroying Manaans ecosystem. In the first instance, this allows those people to survive the assault on taris (presumably), in the second case, it wipes out the planet and gets you banished from the planet (major result).

 

Quoted just to point out this was in my FIRST post of the thread, where I came straight out and said it. Did you only just notice this in my last post, because this was in my first post of the thread! In the entire time you've been arguing with me, did you only just spot that I had mentioned these?

 

You contradict your entire point by proving that, in fact, KOTOR allows you to alter the universe based on choices you make.

 

Sigh, explained earlier.

 

That's my final post about this, mainly because it's pointless debating with someone who has to resort to condescension and insults when they're incapable of clearly stating what their point is.

 

Yes, I know you lost and now here is the infamous internet, OMG YOUR SO MEAN BECAUSE YOU POINTED OUT I STRAWMANED YOUR ARGUMENT REPEATEDLY AND REFUTED MY LOGIC! OMG I GO NOW KTHXBYE, PS YOU ARE MEAN.

 

I stated what my point was quite clearly, it isn't my responsibility to ensure you bother to actually read the posts of those you are debating with. As can clearly be seen, as you thought it was some remarkable revelation that I had pointed out some areas where your choices matter, I have more than reason to believe you didn't read the majority of my posts.

[GhostofAnakin]

It's much easier to quote every single thing I've stated and break it down, considering I don't exactly proof-read every single statement to make sure that all my posts on this forum are 100% in correlation. So I'll break it down in this one post to express (perhaps I didn't do a good job of it) what my entire point in this thread is.

 

1-Forget the whole Vulkar/Beks thing. I brought up that example in direct response to the ORIGINAL poster saying that NO choices actually change anything to do with the storyline. I brought the Vulkar/Bek thing up to prove to HIM (the original poster) that there are subtle, small options that can, in a slight way, change how the story plays through. Story shattering choices? No. But they DO change small portions of it.

 

2-My point was that it's impossible to suggest that every little decision should have a huge impact on the overall main story. But that there are options where you can alter that story somewhat (such as Juhani, either killing her, or allowing her to join your party). That's my entire point. If I brought up bad examples, then my bad. But my only point in responding to this topic is that I think it's an idiotic claim to suggest that NONE of your choices affect the story in ANY way.

 

3-The Fallout 2 example. You never bothered to actually respond to this. You just kept reiterating "Strawman this, strawman that". True or false, if you side with the Mordino's, you still can make your way to Enclave to achieve your goal? True or false, if you side with the Wrights, you still can make your way to the Enclave to acheive your goal? Etc, with the other families? In other words, if you side with the Mordinos, you aren't suddenly unable to make your way to the Enclave and instead have to finish the game in Broken Hills or something, correct? That was my entire point. Not that KOTOR has as much freedom as Fallout, or that Fallout doesn't have options to change the course of the story. Just that, from the larger picture, both games have options that, despite choosing them, certain events still take place.

 

And that was my entire point. That the original post was way off base in their statement, because KOTOR does in fact allow certain instances where a decision will effect the rest of the story (as I stated, killing juhani means she isn't an NPC, redeeming her allows you to use her as a NPC).

[Grand_Commander13]

I think the real issue here (alright, I don't care what the issue is here; the issue with ME) is not that your little decisions don't affect the huge plot; I can take that. My problem is that my little decisions don't affect the game world.

 

In Fallout 2, if I side with the Mordinos, the game turns out the same. However, I've done different quests to do this (while in KOTOR, I wander off to one different fight), and the game world reflects my choice (both by the other families hostiling me on sight, and by the ending narration).

 

Everywhere you go, your character has a lot of choice to do different things (kill Metzger, or join him?; help the Slags, or kill them?; Fix Gecko's plant, or shut it down?; fix the mine, or shut it down?). Some of these choices are reflected in the game world (like which gang you side with in The Den, or whether you choose to be a good guy and help the Slags out); others aren't (well, in a significant manner anyway; many people still say different things depending on your choices).

 

The point of Fallout 2 isn't that you can make the story vary wildly; it's that you feel as if you really are a guy wandering the wasteland, affecting the world around him. KOTOR made me feel like I was a guy on tracks taking potshots at buffalo as they passed by on the plains...

[nik_bg]

Don't forget one very important detail - if you want the game to be completely different for LS and DS this means that you have to design two games instead of one. That is some doubling of development resources/time.

[Nur Ab Sal]

I wrote something similar about it in other topic so let me quote it:

 

THE BIGGEST FLAW IS:

 

"Lack of real choices in the game. Devs decided that you will lose first fight with Malak and so there's no way to change that. Devs decided that Bastila will fall

to the Dark Side and so no matter how you will play conversations with her before Leviathan you will not affect her in any way. And so on...it would be fun to have real power over game's storyline - for example kill Malak on the Leviathan and

explore Rakatan with Bastila and later destroy Star Forge without Malak on board.

During the game you just feel the pressure from devs' vision they'll not let you play the story in your way."

 

And so it is. The duel with Malak is the most stupid part of any game ever. This

guy didn't even SCRATCH me but devs forced his victory. Whole part of Leviathan is ridiculous - begining with capture of ebon hawk which was intended to be untouchable and ending on Bastila's ridiculous fight and blocked doors (sooo powerful Revan and cannot open door with his lightsaber?). Like devs didn't have any other ideas on that part of a game.

 

The real fun would be a changing storyline: make capture by Leviathan accidental

not determined, make killing Malak on the Leviathan POSSIBLE, make Bastila resist dark side under Malak possible and her defection optional. This wouldn't take much of game's memory and this is devs' BAD WILL that we have forceful linear storyline. Even fans could create a mod that will enable all these things - but we'd never get required original voice acting for such mod, so KOTOR 1 is doomed!