The all things Political topic -In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie

[Guard Dog]

6 hours ago, Skarpen said:

Exactly. Then why are you attacking me when I say the same thing and you agree with a guy who says the opposite?

Because your responses were factually incorrect. And you were mischaracterizing the argument. Solar and wind power are not going to replace traditional power generation. Maybe a couple of dumb ass politicians think so but in that profession ignorance is not only to be expected but often valued. Not what Rishae was saying 

[Skarpen]

Then I encourage you to re-read what he wrote and tell me if you agree with him. 

[ComradeYellow]

Joe Biden can't stop thinking about China and the future of American democracy (msn.com)

LOL desperately needed comic relief.

"He's deadly earnest on becoming the most significant, consequential nation in the world," Biden said of Chinese President Xi Jinping during his address to Congress on Wednesday, departing from his prepared remarks. "He and others -- autocrats -- think that democracy can't compete in the 21st century with autocracies."

As he delivered his closing pitch to Congress, Biden hammered home the theme.

"They look at the images of the mob that assaulted the Capitol as proof that the sun is setting on American democracy. But they're wrong," Biden said. "We have to prove democracy still works, that our government still works and that we can deliver for our people.

Russia and China are in Biden's head rent free, and it's hilarious.

It's hilarious because I don't think anyone in the U.S. wants a dictatorship, just more options to choose from than a Jackass and an Oliphant.

[Raithe]

https://statuskuo.substack.com/p/the-raid-on-rudy-giulianis-home-and?

When federal agents raided the home and office of Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, America had a déjà vu moment. After all, this was now the second personal attorney of Trump whose residence was searched and whose electronic devices were seized by authorities, the first being Michael Cohen back in 2018. That is remarkable, and a very big deal, for at least three reasons that help us understand what is really going on.

First, it is incredibly difficult and dicey to serve a search warrant on an attorney. It’s almost certain that you might also seize evidence about his clients, which in this case include none other than the former president. Judges are generally wary of searches on attorneys because they can be used as an improper end-run around going after the suspect directly. If overused, it would damage the sanctity of the attorney-client relationship, which requires frank and open communication. If defendants believed their attorneys could be used against them, the argument goes, they would refrain from communications with them, undermining our legal process.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Raithe said:

https://statuskuo.substack.com/p/the-raid-on-rudy-giulianis-home-and?

 

 

contrary to the impression john oliver may have left some people with recently, probable cause is not an easy hurdle to overcome. police needing resort to lies should be proof of the difficulty of achieving judicial sufficient probable cause, but somehow mr. oliver got things bass backwards on a recent show. if probable cause were so ez, why would cops resort to lies to meet their burden? nevertheless, according to multiple sources, the doj had probable cause for a search last year and bill barr blocked the warrant. 

if barr hadn't blocked the warrant, trump coulda'/woulda'/mighta' pardoned rudy assuming evidence was found which exposed the former nyc mayor to criminal prosecution, so barr's efforts may end up haunting rudy.

also, given rudy has known this search were a possibility since barr stepped in to squash the warrant efforts last year, this is kinda an idiot test for mr. giuliani. most suspects do not get +6 months to prepare for a possible search of their home and electronic devices. if the feds find anything, and the warrant wouldn't have been served unless there were cause to believe they would find evidence, it would require rudy to be one o' the more comical willful obtuse former us attorney generals in history, although far from a uniquely comical example.

HA! Good Fun!

[Raithe]

For that interesting slant...

Rudy Giuliani said he’s too important to be raided in jaw-dropping response to federal search warrant (msn.com)

Rudy Giuliani’s home and office were raided by federal investigators on Wednesday as part of a probe intto his lobbying work - and his response was jaw dropping.

“What they did today was legal thuggery,” his lawyer said. “Why would you do this to anyone, let alone someone who was the associate attorney general, United States attorney, the mayor of New York City and the personal lawyer to the 45th president of the United States.”

In other words - he’s too important to raid.

[Guard Dog]

Cohen: Rudy Will Give Trump Up In A Heartbeat

Suddenly I feel the urge to make some popcorn and watch this will play out

Edited April 29, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Zoraptor]

Cohen's always going to say that though, since he flipped himself. Press will always go for him as a template over, say, Roger Stone because ultimately they want Rudy to flip.

Would be ironic if Giuliani got done for Ukraine shenanigans while Hunter Biden got away with taking a job he was completely unqualified for and awarded solely because he was the VP's son without any consequences. While it may not have bought actual influence it was certainly intended as a bribe and cannot be read any other way. The only thing more ironic was Trump complaining about it given the fingers his children- and a particular child in law- have in various pies due to who their father is.

[Guard Dog]

8 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Cohen's always going to say that though, since he flipped himself. Press will always go for him as a template over, say, Roger Stone because ultimately they want Rudy to flip.

Would be ironic if Giuliani got done for Ukraine shenanigans while Hunter Biden got away with taking a job he was completely unqualified for and awarded solely because he was the VP's son without any consequences. While it may not have bought actual influence it was certainly intended as a bribe and cannot be read any other way. The only thing more ironic was Trump complaining about it given the fingers his children- and a particular child in law- have in various pies due to who their father is.

If there were any justice in the world we’d hang them all. Fortunately for them there is none

[Gromnir]

20 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

If there were any justice in the world we’d hang them all. Fortunately for them there is none

you people are being... predictable. is nothing ironic 'bout rudy v. hunter 'cause a punishment in only one case is hardly ironic seeing as how the activity described regarding hunter is, y'know, not illegal.  but yeah, let's hang 'em all 'cause o' the nonexistent irony? that said, doesn't take much to convince gd to hang 'em all. gonna get gd to do a little self-reflection 'fore the knee-jerk they are all corrupt responses. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

[Guard Dog]

2 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

you people are being... predictable. is nothing ironic 'bout rudy v. hunter 'cause a punishment in only one case is hardly ironic seeing as how the activity described regarding hunter is, y'know, not illegal.  but yeah, let's hang 'em all 'cause o' the nonexistent irony? that said, doesn't take much to convince gd to hang 'em all. gonna get gd to do a little self-reflection 'fore the knee-jerk they are all corrupt responses. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

You invested far more time into that response than my comment deserved. It’s no secret I hold most all political leaders in low esteem. But in this case I was not being serious 

[Gromnir]

Just now, Guard Dog said:

You invested far more time into that response than my comment deserved. It’s no secret(1) I hold most all political leaders in low esteem. But (2) in this case I was not being serious 

not this again. 

you not see the problem with reflexive repeating one and two in same posts? every time you is joking, but same time you are indeed serious that they all deserve to hang together.

can't you feel the brain freeze sensation when you make such posts? 

and keep in mind is not the first time you has accused hunter and joe o' being corrupt insofar as burisma is concerned. however, this time were for funsies?

for review, the current list o' crimes possible in play for rudy:

mail fraud

wire fraud

obstruction of justice

money laundering

making false statements to agents of the government

conspiracy to defraud the United States

serving as an agent of a foreign government without registering with the Justice Department

donating funds from foreign nationals

making contributions in the name of another person or allowing someone else to use one's name to make a contribution

converse, the only accusation level'd at hunter for which any proof has been offered is that he had the uncontested bad judgement in taking a job with burisma. wasn't anything secret 'bout the hunter situation. no conspiracy. no accusations o' agency. mere existence o' his open and notorious employment is the totality o' the misdeed, and as already noted, given the fact joe biden were vp, hunter taking the job were monumental ill-advised. tough to freaking use as leverage or a bribe when everybody is aware hunter works for burisma, eh?

burisma is the folks who woulda' been the ironic offerors of bribe, yes?  vp biden did the exact opposite o' that which woulda' benefited burisma by pushing to get sacked the do-nothing and corrupt prosecutor who were dragging his feet insofar as the investigation o' burisma were concerned.

HA! Good Fun!

ps we never got nothing worth noting from our old man save some dubious advice and our athleticism... and is not as if the athleticism cost our father anything to be passing on to us. on some level am having a hard time criticizing hunter too much for not rejecting the proverbial winning lottery ticket just 'cause it might make his dad look bad. dumbest plan ever by burisma in any event. we woulda' likely laughed our self into hysterics each time we deposited a burisma check. 

 

 

[Bartimaeus]

14 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

you not see the problem with reflexive repeating one and two in same posts? every time you is joking, but same time you are indeed serious that they all deserve to hang together.

Correct me if I'm wrong, @Guard Dog, but I think it's two competing, conflicting thoughts and feelings:
1. I really hate and am sick and tired of these scumbags, and I wish they were dead.
2. But if I was actually in charge of deciding whether they lived or died, obviously I wouldn't kill them - there's a reason we have the legal system we do, as flawed and frustrating as it can be.

Pretty sure that's more or less it. Every time he's posting some off-the-cuff feeling about how they all deserve to hang together, it's the first feeling manifesting all by itself; when you get the inevitable response about how he doesn't actually want that, it's the second pulling him back to a more measured and realistic take. You're gonna keep getting this kind of interaction over and over and over because he, and many more people like him (including others I personally know and hence why I feel equipped to explain what's happening here), is very conflicted about how he feels and he's not considering every single feeling, thought, bias, or prejudice equally at all times of the day, thus leading to this same interaction repeatedly...and it's probably not going to change any time soon.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Gromnir]

24 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, @Guard Dog, but I think it's two competing, conflicting thoughts and feelings:
1. I really hate and am sick and tired of these scumbags, and I wish they were dead.
2. But if I was actually in charge of deciding whether they lived or died, obviously I wouldn't kill them - there's a reason we have the legal system we do, as flawed and frustrating as it can be.

Pretty sure that's more or less it. Every time he's posting some off-the-cuff feeling about how they all deserve to hang together, it's the first feeling manifesting all by itself; when you get the inevitable response about how he doesn't actually want that, it's the second pulling him back to a more measured and realistic take. You're gonna keep getting this kind of interaction over and over and over and over and over because he, and many more people like him (including others I personally know and hence why I feel equipped to explain what's happening here), is conflicted about how he feels and he's not considering every single feeling, thought, bias, or prejudice equally at all times of the day, thus leading to this same interaction repeatedly...and it's probably not going to change any time soon.

gd is serious that they are all corrupt and they deserve punishment. he admits so over and over and over. but this time, when he claims hunter deserves to hang with rudy, he is joking?  am not suggesting he means literal hangings. if the only "joke" is the literalness o' hanging, then is irrelevant.

gd is indeed serious that they is all corrupt, and he were indeed serious that rudy and and hunter is members o' the corrupt they.

edit:

Bombshell Letter: Gaetz Paid for Sex With Minor, Wingman Says

"Greenberg wrote in reference to the 17-year-old. “From time to time, gas money or gifts, rent or partial tuition payments were made to several of these girls, including the individual who was not yet 18. I did see the acts occur firsthand and Venmo transactions, Cash App or other payments were made to these girls on behalf of the Congressman.”"

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Gromnir

[Zoraptor]

Sigh. Someone trying to find evidence of someone else doing something wrong and ending up (allegedly) breaking the law in doing so is an absolutely classic case of situational irony. It also only really works, as irony, if the person being investigated initially didn't do anything illegal.

(I'll always pillory Hunter Biden though, because a metaphorical rotten cabbage in the face is the very least he deserves. No way he didn't know what his directorship was intended as, no one is that dumb, and no way he didn't know the position it would put his father into either)

Edited April 30, 2021 by Zoraptor

[Gromnir]

now that, in part, is a fair observation. sure, rudy ain't just being busted for the hunter stuff, but would indeed be ironic rudy were to be busted for trying to prove hunter's malfeasance. 

'course your description o' hunter actions is, as is predictable, complete misguided and undermines the irony. is not hunter getting away with anything. whatever he done wrong, he were caught doing already *chuckle* and has been punished to the extent possible. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Zoraptor]

Sure he did, you're just interpreting it in a narrow legal framework. I tend to wish bad things to happen to people without even the merest scintilla of integrity irrespective of whether they've actually broken the law, and someone with any integrity at all would have told Burisma to FOAD when offered a directorship under those circumstances. As it stands, Hunter Biden's 'punishment' amounts to receiving millions of dollars from that directorship and pimping his new book on the talk show circuit.

[Gromnir]

*chuckle*

there is no situational irony in a guy like rudy getting himself into legal trouble 'cause he were too stoopid to realize he were being used by foreign agents to expose hunter biden ... and the only thing hunter gets away with is banal and foolish partaking in the benefits o' nepotism, which is also 'bout the least ironic outcome ever. 20% o' the graduating classes at ivy league schools is "guilty" in exact same way. the reality does not defy expectations but rather meets. hunter were a fool who walks away with a pile o' money. *gasp* rudy, if he goes to prison or suffers other consequences will do so 'cause even after warnings from the fbi, he got himself involved with foreign agents for illicit purposes. predictable. meets expectations.

worst part for rudy is am expecting even w/o the fbi warnings he knew what he were doing were at best pushing the limits o' legal, but as long as he were doing on behalf of trump it wouldn't matter 'cause the doj under william barr would not prosecute. is perhaps the only aspect o' the scenario which defies expectations. rudy has been behaving increasing peculiar the past couple years, but we never believed he were a genuine idiot (notable singular exceptions aside) and he had to know that as soon as barr and trump were no longer defending him, his actions would be scrutinized. what benefits would outweigh the scrutiny he were inviting? perhaps somewhere along the way, rudy bought into some kinda conspiracy theory which given joe biden's actions to get a corrupt prosecutor removed from power makes no plausible sense. again, the crimes (not legal) you pin on hunter in the previous post were public and known. were no exposing needed to uncover what you describe as hunter's malfeasance. hunter's wrong is eye-roll worthy banal 'cause is cliché for chrissakes. he took payment for a job for which he were unqualified. utter pointless o' rudy to undertake exposing what you imagine hunter "got away with." the fbi specific warned rudy o' the possible criminal liability he were courting. again, am expecting most could see this coming a mile away and nobody should be surprised... save zor it seems. is all just so... stoopid.

rudy has been behaving erratic, so not unexpected, but when viewed from pov o' 1987 rudy or 2001 rudy, as a law and order guy who would so thoroughly destroy his reputation by indulging in crockpot conspiracy theories  and resorting to alleged illegal means to expose the villainy o' guy guilty o' nothing save very public nepotism, then yeah, there is a bit o' the ironic.   ain't the irony you describe, but there is irony. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

[Gromnir]

well, this is interesting, though not for reasons rudy is attempting to convince us. late 2019 would mean william barr's doj obtained a warrant to access rudy's data. 

the rest o' the rudy observations is deflection and distraction seeing as how a probable cause based warrant with an order the service provider maintain confidentiality is hardly shocking or unusual particular given the foreign agent aspects o' the case. nevertheless, if rudy ain't just talking out his arse, then am gonna concede we finally got a twist to events which is most assured contrary to our expectations. is not the fox spun narrative o' biden and (and even obama in some cases) directed attacks on rudy 'cause he is a trump loyalist but instead a doj under william barr investigation which eventual led to the recent search o' rudy's home.

fascinating.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

Maybe not all was well in the Fuhrer bunker?

A bit of petty rivalry about who is the most favored follower?

Or maybe he just forgot it was his boss that holding the leash of the head of doj at the time. Not surprised if Fox would have tried to pin it on Obama though. He's behind everything from Covid to Global Warming in their world

Edit: Just kidding of course, in the world of Rupert Murdoch (Fox), there is no such thing as global warming, it's all a hoax. Not kidding about that part, he did try to pass off the bushfires down here as an organized army of arsonists running around in the  bush starting fires, because there no such as climate change.

[Guard Dog]

@Gromnir & @Bartimaeus Yes I AM kidding in that I don't want them to actually hang. I don't even want them to be hurt.

But my contempt for politicians is not based on the actions, corrupt or otherwise, of any one person. Anyone who seeks power over their fellow humans has already demonstrated a tremendous character flaw: hubris. A political leader is (usually) not a scientist but they are fond of saying platitudes like "follow the science". Most of the time they know nothing, not even enough to know who is giving them sound advice and who isn't. They are not (usually) doctors. But they see themselves as somehow qualified to make medical decisions for people they will never even know by deciding policy they cannot understand. They can say they listen to "experts" but once again they don't even know enough to tell who IS an expert. I could go on with this but I think you get the idea. In the end they compensate for their lack of knowledge by doing whatever they want on the advice of the people who tell them what they wanted to hear all along. That is the advice of experts. That fact that advice is occasionally correct does not change my point. The biggest sin of politicians is that they imagine the lives of "the people" and the country and world they live in is a thing that can be shaped and controlled by their designs and wishes. That is, in the words of Hayek, the fatal conceit. 

Notice Gromnir, I did not even mention corruption and "self service" in the name of "public service". That is an entirely different conversation. 

Now the fix for both ignorance and corruption is the same. Shrink the power of the "state" and you limit the harm the people who control is can do. Well, the people who would like to see government power limited in any way are a small minority of the voters of this country. That argument has been had and lost many times. Even I'm not preaching that one anymore. And the folks who think that way have no representation in either major party. Nor do we have competent representation in any minor party.  The best thing someone like me can hope for these days is gridlock. With any luck one of the Houses of Congress will be controlled by the Republicans after 2022. As long as the government is divided I no longer care who the President is. 

 

 

[ComradeYellow]

11 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

With any luck one of the Houses of Congress will be controlled by the Republicans after 2022. As long as the government is divided I no longer care who the President is. 

Screw, that!  We need real leadership like FDR or Lincoln, someone who fires up the the masses into great deeds. 

Biden looks like he's getting started and thoroughly rejecting dumb Reaganesque the notion that "government is the problem", he's no great leader, but I'm glad to see we're gearing towards something new.

[Gromnir]

6 hours ago, Gorth said:

Maybe not all was well in the Fuhrer bunker?

 

no doubt.  the notable constants in the bunker were infighting and disorganization. one reason for all the press leaks in the last guy's administration were people s'posed loyal to trump were using the media to sabotage each other. 

The firing of SDNY US Attorney Geoffrey Berman, explained

article is from june 2020. it would turn out the main motivation for firing berman were rudy, protecting rudy. as we mentioned previous on this board, the firing o' berman were the one instance o' william barr as ag for trump engaging in patently stoopid behavior. 

am not even gonna try and hazard guesses as to what happened to explain the desperate defense o' rudy which occurred after the barr doj were investigating rudy surreptitiously in 2019, and we only got rudy's say-so on that point so far which is NOT a reliable source save that such a narrative runs contrary to rudy's interests and previous claims.

and as for @Guard Dog, defending the hang comment as joking, such were never necessary as nobody would take that aspect literal. as such, you aren't defending your self from Gromnir criticism and you has once again confirmed you were most assured NOT joking that they are all guilty and they all deserve punishment rtegardless o' whether or not there is an actual crime to punish.

3 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

But my contempt for politicians is not based on the actions, corrupt or otherwise, of any one person.

exact the problem you keep making. we keep observing how politicians is people. individuals. got individual motivations and failings. nevertheless, gd has developed a general rule o' applicability which he uses regardless o' evidence and circumstances. this is the problem as 'posed to some kinda valid explanation for your lack o' impulse control.

repeat the list o' possible rudy crimes:

mail fraud

wire fraud

obstruction of justice

money laundering

making false statements to agents of the government

conspiracy to defraud the United States

serving as an agent of a foreign government without registering with the Justice Department

donating funds from foreign nationals

making contributions in the name of another person or allowing someone else to use one's name to make a contribution

hunter's crime? couldn't even get the other guy to defend the notion hunter committed an actual crime. am knowing gd embraced some o' the counter-reasonable burisma conspiracy nonsense which makes no sense whatsoever in light o' fact biden public pushed for the removal o' a corrupt prosecutor, but am suspecting the main reason gd were willing to indulge such ridiculous conspiracy nonsense is 'cause it were a narrative which confirmed his bias. they are all corrupt. they all deserve to be punished. a conspiracy theory which depends on the assumption a politician is corrupt gets a presumption o' the legit from gd. 

is not the hanging as literal which we were criticizing, so your joking observation is misplaced. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Zoraptor]

Sheesh, it's entirely possible for someone to want another person punished for something and think they're scummy without that person having broken a law in being scummy.

Doesn't effect the irony of the situation at all, it literally wouldn't be ironic without it.Hunter Biden has to do something that looks bad in order for Giuliani to act and it has to be morally crappy but legally not actionable in order for it to be ironic that Giuliani gets in legal trouble over it. Without either it literally literally wouldn't be ironic.

In summary: you're picking dumb fights with multiple people, again, putting words into people's mouths, again, and writing screeds of pointless verbiage in an attempt to 'win', again.

[Gromnir]

56 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

 

In summary: you're picking dumb fights with multiple people, again, putting words into people's mouths, again, and writing screeds of pointless verbiage in an attempt to 'win', again.

now that is funny.  your mo. sadly, you trying to blame us for your most common problem is also not ironic. 

not a matter o' hunter getting away with something and what you described as the scummy behavior o' hunter weren't what giuliani got in trouble for investigating.  every time a cop or law enforcement gets busted for corruption it ain't ironic, particular if the cop is known to be scummy too, but that is the only way this works for you. is no reversal o' expectations.

yet another excessive horse killing.

HA! Good Fun!