The All Things Political Thread (The World and US Reunited)

[Azdeus]

32 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Okay, I understand your concern

Dont worry technology and  things like facial recognition software has been improved and is vastly more advanced than the era of the Cold War so that is good news 

Also I am sure during the Cold War monitoring and surveillance in places like the USSR was literally about controlling of freedom of speech and making sure people didn't speak out against the state. Also during most of the Cold War the Internet and most digital communications didnt exist. The www was only invented in 1990

And this is not the same as trying to control or restrict peoples views on any topic, so its not the same as the Cold War

This is about reducing the amount of Child Porn that is prevalent and spread on the Internet and other forms of digital communication 

It's absolutely not a good thing, and I can't believe you write something like this the very same year that an orange muppet wanted to become a despot of the USA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse

 

[BruceVC]

25 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

In 1776 a band of poorly armed rebels went to war with the world's biggest superpower over far less than the US government has done to us over the years. And that is not even getting in to the race stuff. Not saying we should get our muskets and line up on the bridge at Concord. But sending new folks to Congress certainly has not worked. They become the people they replace and the institution keeps being what it is. Congress talks a good game every two years about rolling back surveliance and stuff. But then when no one is looking they never fail to renew it. When they came out last week and talked about rolling back executive perrogative and taking back the war powers, that are a Congressional power alone, I was somewhat hopeful. But... I'll believe it when I see it. We've heard this s--t from them before. 

GD Americans disliked the UK Monarchy and  UK leadership so much they even  went to war to ensure independence but  why are so many Americans so   interested in news and updates about the UK Monarchy...like this Harry and Megan scandal ?

That is your former Colonial power and 50 % of Americans interviewed on various US news channels actually wanted more news on the British Monarchy....not less ????

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by BruceVC

[Guard Dog]

1 minute ago, BruceVC said:

GD Americans disliked the UK Monarchy and  UK leadership so much they even  went to war to ensure independence but  why are so many Americans so   interested in news and updates about the UK Monarchy...like this Harry and Megan scandal ?

That is your former Colonial power and 50 % of Americans interviewed on various US news channels actually wanted more news on the British Monarchy....not less ????

 

The monarchy are like the national pets of Great Britain. Everything they do people takes pictures of and go “aww how cute. Kate has a pretty red coat and hat.”  I can’t understand the fascination but I certainly understand what Markel meant about feeling trapped. I think she spoke for all of them. Hell I think the queens corgis have more agency over their lives than she does.

[BruceVC]

14 minutes ago, Azdeus said:

It's absolutely not a good thing, and I can't believe you write something like this the very same year that an orange muppet wanted to become a despot of the USA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse

 

But he didnt, he failed to undermine and erode the core foundation of the US Democratic  system by somehow staying in power and ignoring the Biden win 

So its not necessary to overact to this EU proposal, lets see how its implemented and what impact it has and then we can heavily criticize it....deal ?

Interesting link by the way 

[Gorth]

52 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Okay, I understand your concern

Dont worry technology and  things like facial recognition software has been improved and is vastly more advanced than the era of the Cold War so that is good news 

Also I am sure during the Cold War monitoring and surveillance in places like the USSR was literally about controlling of freedom of speech and making sure people didn't speak out against the state. Also during most of the Cold War the Internet and most digital communications didnt exist. The www was only invented in 1990

And this is not the same as trying to control or restrict peoples views on any topic, so its not the same as the Cold War

This is about reducing the amount of Child Porn that is prevalent and spread on the Internet and other forms of digital communication 

Actually, you don't. Not at all.

And you have too much faith in technology. Those people monitoring peoples activities and communications? They were picked because they were zealots. True believers in a cause. Anything that looked even remotely circumstantial like what they were looking for got tagged and persecuted. I would recommend checking up on confirmation bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias. Once people start looking for something, they start seeing shadows of it everywhere. Better destroy a few hundred innocent lives than letting one genuine villain escape, right?

Did it ever occur to you, that there was a reason that wiser people than that added the clause "innocent until proven guilty" (aka presumption of innocence) to legal systems in civilized countries? We've already established you're not a fan of democracies, but still, you may have heard about this particular principle. Those people will not be neutral, they wont be objective and they wont give you any benefit of doubt. They will have quotas to meet, to justify their existence and "1984" will start looking like a fairy tale that would should strive for compared to the reality you're advocating.

 

Edit: Once you start a witch hunt, guess what? You can't really stop it again. But then, nobody expected the Spanish inquisition, right?

[BruceVC]

5 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

The monarchy are like the national pets of Great Britain. Everything they do people takes pictures of and go “aww how cute. Kate has a pretty red coat and hat.”  I can’t understand the fascination but I certainly understand what Markel meant about feeling trapped. I think she spoke for all of them. Hell I think the queens corgis have more agency over their lives than she does.

Its not  just the USA, when you go to London and visit the UK Monarchy sites, like Buckingham Palace and Tower of London,  in any tourist season you will see literally thousands of tourists from all over but lots of Asians. Many Japanese and Chinese  tourists and people from that region and everyone filming or using smart phone cameras to capture what they can. You wont believe how much of the world loves to know the news of the UK Monarchy

Interestingly enough with  my UK family its mostly the ladies that really support and follow the UK Monarchy gossip and tabloid headlines. The men support them more from a cultural and historical perspective but I wouldn't consider them   committed Monarchists  

I like the UK Monarchy  and  I like Harry and Megan but I do think the interview was unnecessary. I do think their are racists within the family, after what was said about baby Archies race, but I dont think its the whole UK Monarchy and I definitely dont think the Queen is racist 

 

[Azdeus]

24 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

But he didnt, he failed to undermine and erode the core foundation of the US Democratic  system by somehow staying in power and ignoring the Biden win 

So its not necessary to overact to this EU proposal, lets see how its implemented and what impact it has and then we can heavily criticize it....deal ?

Interesting link by the way 

No deal, the program wouldn't hold up in court, but during the several years that the case would need in court there would be rampant surveillance and backdoor implementation, ruining lives of innocent people because some try-hard zealots think that AI and algorithms on unencrypted communications platforms are what pedofiles use to share their content.

[BruceVC]

Just now, Gorth said:

Actually, you don't. Not at all.

And you have too much faith in technology. Those people monitoring peoples activities and communications? They were picked because they were zealots. True believers in a cause. Anything that looked even remotely circumstantial like what they were looking for got tagged and persecuted. I would recommend checking up on confirmation bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias. Once people start looking for something, they start seeing shadows of it everywhere. Better destroy a few hundred innocent lives than letting one genuine villain escape, right?

Did it ever occur to you, that there was a reason that wiser people than that added the clause "innocent until proven guilty" (aka presumption of innocence) to legal systems in civilized countries? We've already established you're not a fan of democracies, but still, you may have heard about this particular principle. Those people will not be neutral, they wont be objective and they wont give you any benefit of doubt. They will have quotas to meet, to justify their existence and "1984" will start looking like a fairy tale that would should strive for compared to the reality you're advocating.

Okay, I understand your view and others. I am not going to comment anymore because I have said everything I can say on this topic 

I still dont agree but its been a good debate, I will see how things unfold before I will change my view on this 

Oh Gothfuscious please stop saying I dont support Democracies, of course I do. That is all I support as sustainable systems of government and the most effective way to address poverty and reduce inequality . That and other  Democratic institutions and laws,(like a  free media, Constitutions and independent courts not influenced  from government interference  ) is absolutely and unequivocally all I support 

[rjshae]

44 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

GD Americans disliked the UK Monarchy and  UK leadership so much they even  went to war to ensure independence but  why are so many Americans so   interested in news and updates about the UK Monarchy...like this Harry and Megan scandal ?

That is your former Colonial power and 50 % of Americans interviewed on various US news channels actually wanted more news on the British Monarchy....not less ????

Well, how do you explain the interest in the Khadashians? Many people have zero interest, yet they always manage to remain in the news. It's an attention economy and the Royals get plenty of that. We don't have an equivalent ceremonial post in the US; it's more or less fulfilled by the President, who often is busy battling negative opinion. Maybe that's why some people in the US follow the Royals instead?

[BruceVC]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14333402/sarah-everard-vigil-protesters-march/

Is anyone following the current protests around the killing of Sarah Everard in the UK?

People and many women protested last night about the general level of violence and sexual harassment  that women in the UK and London are subjected to . So the London police used violence and arrested several women during a ..." march to highlight violence against women " ....what a media disaster and what a protest to chose to decide to arrest people 

Very bad move by the London police

Anyway people are protesting again today and they all still in defiance of virus regulations which was why the police arrested people in the first place 

I support the protestors and think the Police need to use more sensitivity and less aggressive tactics than last night if they decide to break the protests up 

[BruceVC]

8 minutes ago, rjshae said:

Well, how do you explain the interest in the Khadashians? Many people have zero interest, yet they always manage to remain in the news. It's an attention economy and the Royals get plenty of that. We don't have an equivalent ceremonial post in the US; it's more or less fulfilled by the President, who often is busy battling negative opinion. Maybe that's why some people in the US follow the Royals instead?

I cant explain the general obsession and love with Reality shows throughout the world, their are different reasons depending on the show. But yes I agree, because the USA doesnt have an official Royal family the UK Monarchy becomes the next best thing and its a global connection to the UK Monarchy. Its not unique to the USA 

 I like the cooking reality shows like Iron Chef and Chopped, in fact I like Reality shows about practical and " real " things like building treehouses for people

I dont actively follow any  Hollywood type celebrity based reality shows but I did use to enjoy the odd episode of the series about the girls of the Playgirl Mansion ...that was always very entertaining and the girls great to watch 

[ComradeYellow]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

In 1776 a band of poorly armed rebels went to war with the world's biggest superpower over far less than the US government has done to us over the years. And that is not even getting in to the race stuff. Not saying we should get our muskets and line up on the bridge at Concord. But sending new folks to Congress certainly has not worked. They become the people they replace and the institution keeps being what it is. Congress talks a good game every two years about rolling back surveliance and stuff. But then when no one is looking they never fail to renew it. When they came out last week and talked about rolling back executive perrogative and taking back the war powers, that are a Congressional power alone, I was somewhat hopeful. But... I'll believe it when I see it. We've heard this s--t from them before. 

The problem is lack of leadership.  Only ideas can inspire actual change, not elected cogwheels who just talk.

Say what you will about Trump, but his completely unorthodox approach to politics actually did inspire and plant some seeds for change, almost by accident, in many parts of the world.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/biden-foreign-policy-history/

[rjshae]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

I dont actively follow any  Hollywood type celebrity based reality shows but I did use to enjoy the odd episode of the series about the girls of the Playgirl Mansion ...that was always very entertaining and the girls great to watch 

On US TV, if it jiggles, it gets cancelled alas. I still remember that girls on trampolines show. Yeah, it's totally sexist. 

[BruceVC]

18 minutes ago, rjshae said:

On US TV, if it jiggles, it gets cancelled alas. I still remember that girls on trampolines show. Yeah, it's totally sexist. 

Yes but they taught me at the very instructive  " decoding and ending  white, male privlidege "  classes I attended  that it cannot be called sexist if the girls are really hot ? So need for feeling guilty about that watching that show 

[ComradeYellow]

But all shows were like that in that time period.  The whole 90's-00's was like one big cultural hoshposh of really bad manners and crudeness.  Nobody seemed to care at the time but upon reflection yes it was quite a casually braindead racist and sexist time.

[majestic]

Bruce is like Renate from Iron Sky

 

[Zoraptor]

6 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

You know the worst thing about the Snowden thing is the US Government won the PR battle. They got people all twisted up over THAT he leaked when they real anger should have been at WHAT he leaked. 

Dunno if the US Government won the PR battle. It was a battle they never wanted to fight, and I'd say they lost just from having to fight it.

If the US Government came out and admitted to all the bad stuff they'd done there would probably still be a majority of people who would justify and defend it because tribalism runs deep. But that majority would be smaller than it is now, and any reduction is a 'win' for the Snowdens of the world.

It also exposes the other tools they use, like astroturfing. Post Snowden there's a lot more people willing to look at, say, people tweeting in support of the coup in Bolivia, and noticing that apparently there's a very large ex pat Bolivian community in some small town called Langley, Virginia.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Zoraptor

[BruceVC]

7 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

If the US Government came out and admitted to all the bad stuff they'd done 

Great idea, when I see the likes of China and Russia admitting all the bad stuff they have done and do I will be the first in line to support this  call for the US to " admit "  all their evildoings. Because its only the US that has done bad things

Why doesn't Snowden demand transparency from the Kremlin  about  how they govern Russia....he lives in Russia after all and consistency is important around a persons integrity ?

[Gorth]

14 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Why doesn't Snowden demand transparency from the Kremlin  about  how they govern Russia....he lives in Russia after all and consistency is important around a persons integrity ?

Maybe he doesn't have the access to the same type of confidential papers and communications in Russia that he had in the US?

[Azdeus]

31 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Great idea, when I see the likes of China and Russia admitting all the bad stuff they have done and do I will be the first in line to support this  call for the US to " admit "  all their evildoings. Because its only the US that has done bad things

Why doesn't Snowden demand transparency from the Kremlin  about  how they govern Russia....he lives in Russia after all and consistency is important around a persons integrity ?

Because it's Russia, if he had leaked those documents he'd find himself drinking polonium tea in the morning.

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Maybe he doesn't have the access to the same type of confidential papers and communications in Russia that he had in the US?

Yeah, could be 

But I would also find many excuses to justify living in an autocratic state and being fine with the killings of journalists and the unlawful arresting of opposition party members. But I suppose the main thing for Snowden is he exposed the evil, Capitalist USA and now lives in the free and progressive Russian state where human rights are truly respected and the public are able to question their government without fear of being targeted 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/80-journalists-arrested-amid-russian-protests/ar-BB1dgzpC

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russia-journalists-opposition-arrests-putin/2020/07/25/6ec32804-c784-11ea-a825-8722004e4150_story.html

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/07/europe/ivan-golunov-journalist-arrested-russia-intl/index.html

[BruceVC]

8 minutes ago, Azdeus said:

Because it's Russia, if he had leaked those documents he'd find himself drinking polonium tea in the morning.

Would they at least serve him scones and cream with that tea?

[Gorth]

So many whataboutisms

 

[Azdeus]

17 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Would they at least serve him scones and cream with that tea?

Good question, I'm thinking Blini or Syrniki, I mean it's not like he's going to be dead hungry later

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Gorth said:

So many whataboutisms

 

Gorthfuscious I have definitely noticed an unusual level of criticism from you towards my posts. I enjoy different views and the principle of debate so I am not suggesting you should agree with me at all. In fact disagreement leads to debate. But for example you keep saying " I dont believe in Democracies" which I have never ever suggested 

But this new stance from you is  specifically since Thursday and our debate around the Drone Strikes, I would like to  address any misunderstandings so we can continue to debate in good faith. What are you clearly annoyed about ?

I apologize for not reading properly  and or understanding the article on new civilian oversight around the usage of drone strikes 

You did say I must learn to read properly and yes I did misunderstand that specific article 

But lets move on or at least tell me what the issue is because you do seem different in how you debate? And I like you and enjoy our debates. Other forum members ignore me or have a negative view of me but the difference with them is I dont care what they personally thing of me 

I respect you and your life journey so when someone like you is annoyed with me I like to know why and see how I can resolve things?