Shifter - multiclass or not?

[Desmodeus]

So, spiritshift focused druid. Is it worth to keep him single class or it is better to multiclass for full attack access and other goodies? Wildstrike frenzy doesn't exactly look that good without community patch but on other hand it still allows to prolong shifted form

[Boeroer]

Since the "weapons" of Spiritshift forms don't scale with Power Level but character level and since Wildstrike Frenzy is a rel. lame upgrade overall (+4 secs per kill... mehehehehehe) I'd advocate for multiclass. Avenging Storm is nice with fast melee attacks - but the rest of the PL8/9 spells are not very exciting for somebody who wants to use their Spiritshift form in melee mostly. 

In another thread we found out that the Boar form's raw damage does incredibly well with the Helwalker's MIG and INT buffs (because more dmg AND way longer Spiritshift). Especially the Shifter's boar form because it's implemented differently than the "normal" boar form (for whatever reasons). Streetfighter is also a nice option:
 

Trickster is always nice.

Other good combo is bear form + Goldpact Knight. You'll get plenty of lashes (Greater Wildstrike + Eternal Devotion) for good melee dmg and very high AR with 0 recovery penalty - which also is a way to raise dps while being very sturdy. The bear's +2 AR does stack with the Paladin's Passive AND Gilded Enmity. And wioth Sworn Rival you can basically have unlimited uses of Gilded Enmity as long as you kill the guy with Sworn Rival on (which might trigger Inspiring Triumph and so on and so forth). Pretty fun.

Barbarian with stag form is fun IF you use the community patch. The abysmal original stag AoE ability became a weaker version of Carnage there - and it stacks with the Barb's Carnage. It's not OP but nice. Frenzy + Bloodlust + Blood Thirst is nice if you combine it with some nasty DoT spells like Plague of Insects etc.: Once the weaker ememies die from it you are getting your recovery eliminated and that can speed you up a lot. Furyshaper is a nice Barb subclass anyway but Berserker also works fine since you can heal yourself well enough as Druid (as long as not Fury).

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Boeroer

[Exanos]

I will go multi too. 

• Streetfighter : very hight dps if you can keep it alive. I love to start fight with a blundebuss shoot with modal on. Allow you to fast cast all your buff (accuracy doesnt matter for this) before going in.  You can end your spiritform for rinse and repeat.
• Berseker : very solid. Boeroer desbribe it well and their is a very Nice post about it on the forum. Try Wotep and the pl2 attack spell (forget the name sorry)  when out of spiritshift, quite fun.

Not a fan of palla and Monk multi with it, even if it work well. Pala is the best for tanking (i rate rogue and barbarian better for dps) but if you tank you are very susceptible to interrupt, and as a shifter you still need to cast some spell to make the most out of it (personal opinion). Hellwalker make you very fragile on the frontline. If you have a priest for barring death door you, hellwalker may be the best for damage still with boar form. I just don't like relying on it to much.

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, Exanos said:

• Berseker : very solid. Boeroer desbribe it well and their is a very Nice post about it on the forum. Try Wotep and the pl2 attack spell (forget the name sorry)  when out of spiritshift, quite fun.

Taste of the Hunt.  You will only get healed once despite hitting multiple foes - but the AoE cone will apply the high raw damage to all enemies.

2 hours ago, Exanos said:

Pala is the best for tanking (i rate rogue and barbarian better for dps) but if you tank you are very susceptible to interrupt[...]

Or you don't tank but focus on dealing damage and just be like  when sombody attacks you.  

By the way: Eternal Devotion's lash also applies to direct damage (Sunbeam etc.) and pulsing spells (Wicked Briars, Relentless Storm, Nature's Terror etc.). There aren't that many multiplicative dmg bonuses for spells so this is pretty nice.   

Edited February 10, 2021 by Boeroer

[thelee]

3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Wildstrike Frenzy is a rel. lame upgrade overall (+4 secs per kill... mehehehehehe) I'd advocate for multiclass.

I recently discovered that WF is kinda buggy somehow. I end up getting way more than +4 secs per kill. I think I pinged @Elric Galad if he could look into it as part of his mechanics deep dives/modding, don't know if he ever got around to it.

 

It was remarkable enough that I changed my recommendation about it in my guide, for single-class it's a great way to extend your duration since it's pretty hard to do so otherwise (versus a multi-class). The extra aoe becomes a nice cherry on the top at that point.

 

edit: quoting an excerpt from my guide

"Despite the wording, kills only extend the spirishift duration, not any beneficial effect. However, this duration extension is quite buggy in your favor: while the first kill only gets you the 4s as expected, the duration extension dramatically increases the more kills you get. In a simple test, I was getting up to an additional minute from a kill. This can be obviously extremely powerful effect for spiritshift-heavy builds, since even for a shifter it is otherwise quite hard to get a long spiritshift duration."

this same bug might affect similar other abilities (like the chanter might/con/resolve buff invocation upgrade)

Edited February 10, 2021 by thelee

[thelee]

also, to OP's thread, I'm rolling a shifter/stalker beastmaster right now. it's still early days, but generous boar form DoT plus high ranger accuracy (will also help w/ spellcasting against megabosses where shift form is less useful due to finite duration), plus +1 AR and +5 Deflection from being near pet is promising. A bear form will have stupidly high AR by end-game (better than mythic plate, with no recovery penalty), stag form will have good defenses [especially if I pick up Beast's Claw later on], and of course boar form will just eat up everything else with stupid high accuracy.

plus there's some misc synergy - shifter gets a lot of DoT spells for free, which goes well with predator's sense in the ranger tree. ranger has good utility effects that you can use while shifted (like evasive roll).

it might not be as stupidly high DPS as a helwalker/shifter or streetfighter/shifter, but it seems like it has good promise.

Edited February 10, 2021 by thelee

[Boeroer]

I still don't know about SC Druid as Spiritshift build. Even if you get a lot more duration per (late) kill: it's an "on kill" effect after all - which usually is not a very impactful teigger to begin with (because if you kill a lot that usually means you're fighting weaksters anyway). There might be exception though - like really long fights with waves of enemies (see SSS). I would just miss all the goodies that makes Spiritshift more fun: good full attacks (FoD, Rogue's stuff, Stunning Surge and so on), lashes, speed buffs, damage bonuses... I mean you can uff a bit via Chanter and Priest buddies (Mith Fyr, Champion's Boon etc.) but that's not the same level of fun and "look I build something powerful"-satisfaction imo. 

Stalker/Shifter: also (Accurate) Wounding Shot + boar DoT +(potentially Hylea's Talons) should stack nicely, right?

Boar form always unlocks Predator's Sense I reckon.

Back to Wildstrike Frenzy/prolonging Spiritshift: does Wall of Draining prolong Spiritshift? Thinking about a buffed-up Sorcerer boar with Zandethus Draconic Fury...

Edited February 10, 2021 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

15 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Back to Wildstrike Frenzy/prolonging Spiritshift: does Wall of Draining prolong Spiritshift? Thinking about a buffed-up Sorcerer boar with Zandethus Draconic Fury...

Yes it does!

[thelee]

28 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Boar form always unlocks Predator's Sense I reckon.

lol i completely forgot about this most obvious synergy

[Boeroer]

Holy smokes: the combination of Nature's Terror + Sacred Immolation while attacking with Eternal Devotion (Bleak Walker) is pretty fun.   

[Exanos]

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Or you don't tank but focus on dealing damage and just be like  when sombody attacks you.  

 

Yeah, there is still this possibility ^^. Was thinking a bit more about pala : if you go bleakwalker wearing deltro's cage (with a mate shocking you), a chanter in your team with myth fyr,  and pick the frost wildstrike, you have 2*fire+corrode+frost+elec lash on your Fod right? maybe i will try that...

[Boeroer]

Yes, a lot of lashes.  I'd add Hylea's Talons and Belt of Magran's Chosen for additional ones. 

But also on a Bleak Walker with Scion of Flame & Spirit of Decay you'll have +2 PEN for your Flames of Devotion attacks (including the lashes) and +20 ACC (+10 FoD +10 Ring of Focused Flames) which is a nice package.

[Elric Galad]

@theleeNope, I didn't have time for it. My mod overwrite the On Kill effect anyway but I think I have a bug listed with Spiritshift Frenzy so I might find something. Unfortunately I'm quite busy IRL for now, so I only have time for a bit of theorycrafting.

[Desmodeus]

Pity that monk unarmed bonus does not work for druids...

[Elric Galad]

2 hours ago, Desmodeus said:

Pity that monk unarmed bonus does not work for druids...

It would be OP though.

[Desmodeus]

13 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

It would be OP though.

It would be fun though xD Roaring death machine xD

[Exanos]

16 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Holy smokes: the combination of Nature's Terror + Sacred Immolation while attacking with Eternal Devotion (Bleak Walker) is pretty fun.   

Add avenging storm from a scroll : 

OK, I Take back what i said about rogue/barbarian being better dps than pala...

Edited February 11, 2021 by Exanos

[Boeroer]

I would agree to "better melee dps". 

Also Sacred Immolation comes very late and the self damage is strong tobacco (as ze Germans say ;)).  

[Exanos]

For the self damage part, wearing voidward ring should offset a huge part of it. For the rest, i suppose a combination of chanter with old siec chant (12% damage dealt as healt), and triumph of crusader from a priest (maybe even the pet socrate : +20health/kill) should allow you to out health the self damage part no? (As long as their is enough mob, won't work on boss). I don't even take in consideration the boar regen and all the hot you can have.

 

Edit: never tried beetle shield spell before, will it work here? Can you cast it on yourself?

Edit 2: if a cipher cast pain link, will it work too?

Edited February 11, 2021 by Exanos

[Boeroer]

Old Siec is not so great since its health generation is limited to a few hits per attack roll (no draining from all enemies who get hit). If you want a great (the best) draining effect go with a SC Furyshaper. The Blood Ward transforms ALL dmg (except traps, walls and seals - but even DoT ticks will work!) into healing. So ALL hits from Sacred Immolation do trigger the healing effect. You can even turn huge DoT stuff like Plague of Insects into an awesome damage spell with a good self-healing component. Brand Enemy turns into a weak but endless regeneration effect and so on. You can stack it with Old Siec!

I played a solo Furyshaper so I know my Blood Ward stuff.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

22 minutes ago, Exanos said:

never tried beetle shield spell before, will it work here? Can you cast it on yourself?

Ah, good thinking, will try that out. But you can always use Lay on Hands + Nature's Balm of course - should be enough. 

[Boeroer]

Hahaha! It works: Sacred Immolation is still firing (Nature's Terror, too by the way) and the self damage gets blocked. It breaks pretty quickly though because 200 pts of damag-shield is not much when 30 points of base dmg (scaling with PL and Might etc.) are pommeling you every 3 secs.

Also just tested: If you have a Priest you can use Withdraw: the outgoing dmg still works, the self dmg gets blocked AND you even heal up. Be your party's own sigil of death.

[Exanos]

9 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Hahaha! It works: Sacred Immolation is still firing (Nature's Terror, too by the way) and the self damage gets blocked. It breaks pretty quickly though because 200 pts of damag-shield is not much when 30 points of base dmg (scaling with PL and Might etc.) are pommeling you every 3 secs.

Also just tested: If you have a Priest you can use Withdraw: the outgoing dmg still works, the self dmg gets blocked AND you even heal up. Be your party's own sigil of death.

\o/

So, let's see if i get all the steps right :

1. Wear deltro's cage and get hit by an elec spell;
2. Cast avenging storm (from a scroll) and nature's terror;
3. Have a cipher cast pain link on you;
4. Engage with a FOD (eternal devotion upgrade) attack;
5. Cast sacred imolation;
6. If you drop low, beetle shield or withdraw.

You should trigger avenging storm thrice (nature's terror, sacred imolation, pain link (not sure about this one), while adding a fire lash (eternal devotion) and an elec lash (deltro's cage)

Am i right?

[Boeroer]

Avenging Storm only procs off of weapon attacks (AoE weapons and AoE spells that get triggered by weapons - see Chilling Grave - included). So Nature's Terror and Sacred Immolation won't work with Avenging Storm. 

The rest is correct. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Boeroer

[Desmodeus]

What about priest? Salvation of time to prolong spiritshift + minor avatar. Accuracy and deflection will get some hit though...